Snake on side of road On Nut

[Eric Loh]

We don't expect military men to be good at economics anyway and really no shame in copying policies that are good for the country including the infrastructure, water management projects and the special economic zones.

[MZurf]

Appears to me this is like saying all the problems Thailand has had the last 8 years will be gone when they finally allow Thailand to go back to how thaksin was doing it. His way was the proper way but it seems they wouldnot let him be the one to do it. Could they not have saved 8 years of violence turmoil and cost if they would have just let him do his job.and not had the first coup. The country would have been a way better off i feel. 8 years to come to the point where their backs are so hard against the wall they have to admit the obvious.

So funny! One of the best pieces of satire on TVF for a longtime.

Just imagine,even ignoring all those outstanding court cases, how rich the Shin fortune would be now if they had. Make way on that Forbes list of rich even nearer to the top.

Thailand - still be the same, just more debt and f-all to show for it.

Yes, at least now there is room in the trough for more snouts - obviously much better!

[lovelomsak]

Why does everyone worry about the debt. The only problem with debt is it only stimulates the economy at time of purchase. But money used to purchase with credit gets passed around a lot and spent time and time again.Also farmers that use credit maybe over time increasing their networth,thus giving them more credit to borrow money again. The cycle grows get one debt paid off creat another. The housing boom in north america was based on credit. People who were renters now have homes worth $500,000 because of credit.

Do you think they will take farms away from farmers if no one else can buy them. Who will replace the farmer an accountant or bank worker,maybe a waiter,no a florist. Give them the money and get things rolling.

[manfredtillmann]

The amazing household debt started under Thaksin..Credit for just a signature......In the old days buying on time here was not really the mainstream......now everything including small ticket items.......In the eighties and ninties the average person had savings accounts and saved for things.

Thais do not know how to manage debt. A while back I was in line at the checkout at one of the supermarkets. The Thai woman in front of me was buying some soda and candy. It came to a tad over 200 baht, and she whips out a credit card to pay for it. There is no hope.

mate, this is not a thai problem, this is universal. my son-in-law pays for his mc breakfast by card, $4.99, he does not even have a purse to carry coins.

i know, this whole issue gets us away from the original post, BUT:

sustainability must, in the long term, outweigh the need for growth. the australian aboriginals have managed to live for centuries in harmony with their environment. maintained a balanced population and lived of the land without a non - natural way of adapting it.

you and i and everyone else reading this will all be dead by the time this really matters but we, the humans, will not survive what we are creating now.

one more beer after this one........

[chainarong]

Thaksinomics is as good as anything else , given the 3 months time limit to sort the economy out it should be termed houdininomics , these economy's take years to get right , unfortunately just weeks to stuff - up , learning lessons indeed for the Junta, who couldn't run a flag up a pole let alone a country.

[MAJIC]

It suddenly occurred to me while replying to this Topic that far from finding the answer with more Thaksinomics,all we have done is prolonged what should be no longer mentioned,i.e his name,....yes and before someone points it out,I am just as guilty!

[Spleen]

Oh the irony.As someone posted had they let T Man get on with it in 2006 I doubt they would be in pooh city like they are now

[jayboy]

Somkid spent much effort undermining M.R. Pridiyathorn, and is now re-cooking a recipe for disaster. I haven't got on with Somkid since he very rudely interrupted my breakfast shortly before he became Thaksin's first Finance Minister.

" The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

[Wilsonandson]

Look at how many times in one day of posts on TV people have described Thailand as amazing. To expats this is a joke when you refer to amazing Thailand it means you can't believe what is going on in this country. If this is just a bunch of expats posts saying this then what are the Thai people thinking? Expect by next year the people will be out on the streets again. The vicious circle of street protests looks to me likely to return if no election is held soon.

[lovelomsak]

Look at how many times in one day of posts on TV people have described Thailand as amazing. To expats this is a joke when you refer to amazing Thailand it means you can't believe what is going on in this country. If this is just a bunch of expats posts saying this then what are the Thai people thinking? Expect by next year the people will be out on the streets again. The vicious circle of street protests looks to me likely to return if no election is held soon.

Military ran governments suppress street protests quickly. So donot hold your breath waiting for that to happen,because it never will with things such as article 44.

[billd766]

We don't expect military men to be good at economics anyway and really no shame in copying policies that are good for the country including the infrastructure, water management projects and the special economic zones.

I agree with you but ONLY if there is transparency, budgetary control and accountability which were always missing in any project of Thaksin's.

[billd766]

The amazing household debt started under Thaksin..Credit for just a signature......In the old days buying on time here was not really the mainstream......now everything including small ticket items.......In the eighties and ninties the average person had savings accounts and saved for things.

Thais do not know how to manage debt. A while back I was in line at the checkout at one of the supermarkets. The Thai woman in front of me was buying some soda and candy. It came to a tad over 200 baht, and she whips out a credit card to pay for it. There is no hope.

mate, this is not a thai problem, this is universal. my son-in-law pays for his mc breakfast by card, $4.99, he does not even have a purse to carry coins.

i know, this whole issue gets us away from the original post, BUT:

sustainability must, in the long term, outweigh the need for growth. the australian aboriginals have managed to live for centuries in harmony with their environment. maintained a balanced population and lived of the land without a non - natural way of adapting it.

you and i and everyone else reading this will all be dead by the time this really matters but we, the humans, will not survive what we are creating now.

one more beer after this one........

Years ago when I was working in NZ the woman in front of me went through seven (7) credit or debit cards to pay a $NZ bill for $45. It took about 5 minutes for her to pay. I went through in 30 seconds simply by paying cash.

[Jon Wetherall]

Appears to me this is like saying all the problems Thailand has had the last 8 years will be gone when they finally allow Thailand to go back to how thaksin was doing it. His way was the proper way but it seems they wouldnot let him be the one to do it. Could they not have saved 8 years of violence turmoil and cost if they would have just let him do his job.and not had the first coup. The country would have been a way better off i feel. 8 years to come to the point where their backs are so hard against the wall they have to admit the obvious.

So funny! One of the best pieces of satire on TVF for a longtime.

Just imagine,even ignoring all those outstanding court cases, how rich the Shin fortune would be now if they had. Make way on that Forbes list of rich even nearer to the top.

Thailand - still be the same, just more debt and f-all to show for it.

Righto...

Much like it is now then...

Same same.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Jon Wetherall

[Jon Wetherall]

Look at how many times in one day of posts on TV people have described Thailand as amazing. To expats this is a joke when you refer to amazing Thailand it means you can't believe what is going on in this country. If this is just a bunch of expats posts saying this then what are the Thai people thinking? Expect by next year the people will be out on the streets again. The vicious circle of street protests looks to me likely to return if no election is held soon.

Military ran governments suppress street protests quickly. So donot hold your breath waiting for that to happen,because it never will with things such as article 44.

There seems to be an increasing tendency to think article 44 can be used like a talisman or an amulet.

"I order you to stop it under the authority of article 44"

"Piss off and tell your police and soldiers to poop in their tall hats"

"Right, now you've asked for it. Erm. Now I'm going to tell the big guy on you, then you'll be sorry".

The fact is that article 44 is just an authorisation mechanism,. Commands under 44 still need to be enforced and this is still Thailand.

[Jim walker]

Of course Thailand could only end up in a financial mess these people are soldiers and know nothing else nothing else generals not diplomats or financial experts with knowledge of high finance but they know what end of a rifle to point. They are only in power because another powerful family in Thailand thought the Shinawatra family was becoming more powerful and popular with the working class than them.

[NCFC]

Appears to me this is like saying all the problems Thailand has had the last 8 years will be gone when they finally allow Thailand to go back to how thaksin was doing it. His way was the proper way but it seems they wouldnot let him be the one to do it. Could they not have saved 8 years of violence turmoil and cost if they would have just let him do his job.and not had the first coup. The country would have been a way better off i feel. 8 years to come to the point where their backs are so hard against the wall they have to admit the obvious.

So funny! One of the best pieces of satire on TVF for a longtime.

Just imagine,even ignoring all those outstanding court cases, how rich the Shin fortune would be now if they had. Make way on that Forbes list of rich even nearer to the top.

Thailand - still be the same, just more debt and f-all to show for it.

There are people in Thailand who are richer than Thaksin will ever be and more corrupt than Thaksin ever could be. But you never, ever criticize them. You are being led by the nose and you can't even see it.

[tonbridgebrit]

Okay, what works will work.

Who cares anyway whether it's a man wearing a suit or a man wearing an army army uniform carrying out these policies.

[whatproblem]

I think the best way to revive the country would be to build lots and lots of prisons and put the corrupt officials in ,lots of Jobs ,and confiscate all there assets

[jayboy]

Okay, what works will work.

Who cares anyway whether it's a man wearing a suit or a man wearing an army army uniform carrying out these policies.

Alexander Pope

"For forms of government let fools contest

That which is best administered is best"

A neat couplet but dead wrong.John Adams noted:

"Nothing is more certain from the history of nature and the history of man that some forms of government are better fitted for being well administered than others"

[FangFerang]

Throw money at the problem,will that work?,or will the poor

just end up deeper in debt,and have to sell their land to the

rich,I don't understand Governments around the world,all they

think about is growth,growth and more growth,the world has

finite resources,and cannot keep on growing,Mother Nature

is starting to fight back,and its going to be nasty.

regards worgeordie

That's the problem with an investment-led capitalist model -- it demands infinite growth among finite resources.

Well said, worgeordie.

[Thai at Heart]

Throw money at the problem,will that work?,or will the poor

just end up deeper in debt,and have to sell their land to the

rich,I don't understand Governments around the world,all they

think about is growth,growth and more growth,the world has

finite resources,and cannot keep on growing,Mother Nature

is starting to fight back,and its going to be nasty.

regards worgeordie

That's the problem with an investment-led capitalist model -- it demands infinite growth among finite resources.

Well said, worgeordie.

Nice quote, this of course makes no allowance for innovation and technological development made in the search of the capitalist profit.

15. “Nothing is done. Everything in the world remains to be done or done over. The greatest picture is not yet painted, the greatest play isn’t written, the greatest poem is unsung. There isn’t in all the world a perfect railroad, nor a good government, nor a sound law. Physics, mathematics, and especially the most advanced and exact of the sciences are being fundamentally revised. . . Psychology, economics, and sociology are awaiting a Darwin, whose work in turn is awaiting an Einstein.” — Lincoln Steffens

[dontoearth]

Throw money at the problem,will that work?,or will the poor

just end up deeper in debt,and have to sell their land to the

rich,I don't understand Governments around the world,all they

think about is growth,growth and more growth,the world has

finite resources,and cannot keep on growing,Mother Nature

is starting to fight back,and its going to be nasty.

regards worgeordie

I haven't seen anyone submit any alternate economic plans! The whole world is addicted to endless economic growth. And yes! It is going to end badly! In the 60's and 70's a few economist wanted to work on limited growth or even planned communities with a final cap on population and commerce. Again! It went nowhere. Now we are pursuing sustainable growth like having smaller plastic water bottles! LOL. ROFL! Madness! There is a strong world-wide back lash to managing community resources and a huge 'rich' cabal wanting the resources managed for the maximization of their own personal wealth rather than the public good. But nice thought! Maybe Mother Nature is going to enter the picture. In a 24 hour period when she is really mad she can undo about 30 years of growth in a large path.

[dontoearth]

Throw money at the problem,will that work?,or will the poor

just end up deeper in debt,and have to sell their land to the

rich,I don't understand Governments around the world,all they

think about is growth,growth and more growth,the world has

finite resources,and cannot keep on growing,Mother Nature

is starting to fight back,and its going to be nasty.

regards worgeordie

Without growth, your debts will rise inexorably.

permanent growth is logically unattainable and unsustainable. the only way for mankind - and that includes all thai's - to survive on this planet is to establish balance and harmony with nature and find ways to live in an economic equilibrium. and i don't think throwing money at the peasants for the sake of harvesting sympathy and support is a good way of getting there. so much more to learn...

Well as long as we breed like rabbits there must be a grow only to feed us all....

But even with a stagnant population there would be a permanent grow, because of improvements in technology. That doesn't mean more resources....the new smart phone for sure uses less resources as my dads first "mobile" phone which had about 5kg. The electric car is way more expensive than the gasoline car, but over its life it (should) use less resources. Or better education costs money, if you improve education by spending more money on it it counts as economic grow.

Getting economic growth out of a higher standard of living services (health, education, public buildings, public infrastructure like public transportation) has a much smaller impact on the environment and is a good idea. The smartphone with its built in obsolescence is a mirage. If everyone throws their phone away every few years it doesn't use less resources. My old mom uses a 60 year old phone in her farm house. Now that is using resources properly. True it is 5 times the size of a modern phone. My teenage nieces are on their 3rd smart phone and whining away for a 4th! Just about every 2 years! Really wasting those resources faster!

[dontoearth]

"'Thaksinomics' Return as Junta Rethinks Revival Survival Strategy."

It is actually keynesian economics. Despite the huge hatred of it by the right wing and rich all over the world and the demonizing by their paid propaganda machines like Fox News, it is the only PROVEN economics. DATA! Darn facts! The supply-siders, and friedman free market people have proven again and again they can damage society and the economy like no one could imagine. Whether it is unregulated banking, or unsustained borrowing practices, or cutting government services to the bone, inflating the money supply, privatizing public functions so no benefits come to the public. None of it works. We are waiting for someone to show us Keynesian growth that is more sustainable than the 1930's brand we used to repair right wing economics in the USA. This is still a problem! You might read some Paul Krugeman if you like!

Edited September 8, 2015 by dontoearth

[jerojero]

Maybe how transparent a populist program is might make it work as postulated. And less susceptible to officials skimming millions, whether elected or otherwise.

[mike324]

Populist policy shouldn't be an evil word. If implemented properly, its a viable solution to help the poor.

Take for example the Rice Scheme - under the TRT/PTP, if there was no corruption it would still have been a failure because they are betting on world rice price would go up by 50% if they can control the flow of rice.

Under the DEM - it was also a failure because of corruption - but if there was no corruption, the Rice Scheme would have been sustainable and was a fair policy at helping the poor.

To solve all these problems, it all starts with education and better law enforcement. So far I can tell you that the govt workers are watching their backs now, my shipping forwarder no longer ask for under table money to bribe customs because its becoming more strict and they are not demanding it. So on the law enforcement, I would say its a big improvement, police don't take bribes as much as well in fear of being filmed and shamed.

It is quite ironic bringing Somkid back. Just hope the general chooses the economic strategies carefully, not just another propaganda campaign to gain votes.

I have my guess that the General is holding on to power because of much larger reasons in the foreseeable future. It has nothing to do with him wanting to be PM. It has to do with the stability of the country as its on the tipping edge about to explode once the domino falls.

[rubl]

I think it would already be a step forward if we give 'Thaksinomics' or actually "Thai copy nomics' it's correct name, 'Keynesian fiscal stimulus policies'.

Next we have to accept that previous policies have led to structural indebtness of a larger part of the public and no fiscal stimulation will help much. As such the government needs to look abroad for money which isn't easy in the current economical climate worldwide.

It would seem the government has to be real selective to avoid going bankrupt while still helping the poor and lower paid. Stimulus of local SME's only helps if those can export (local people no money remember). Larger infrastructure projects which are mostly financed by foreign governments are also of help (as long as local workforce gets involved). Especially building up infrastructure to the NorthEast may help making that region more accessable and more interesting for local and foreign investors.

My seven-and-a half-cent's worth.

[Jon Wetherall]

I think it would already be a step forward if we give 'Thaksinomics' or actually "Thai copy nomics' it's correct name, 'Keynesian fiscal stimulus policies'.

Next we have to accept that previous policies have led to structural indebtness of a larger part of the public and no fiscal stimulation will help much. As such the government needs to look abroad for money which isn't easy in the current economical climate worldwide.

It would seem the government has to be real selective to avoid going bankrupt while still helping the poor and lower paid. Stimulus of local SME's only helps if those can export (local people no money remember). Larger infrastructure projects which are mostly financed by foreign governments are also of help (as long as local workforce gets involved). Especially building up infrastructure to the NorthEast may help making that region more accessable and more interesting for local and foreign investors.

My seven-and-a half-cent's worth.

Don't sell yourself short, its a very sensible comment/ It took me quite by surprise.

And you didn't refer to Thaksin at all (except obliquely), even though you could have done.

Remarkable really...

[Jon Wetherall]

Populist policy shouldn't be an evil word. If implemented properly, its a viable solution to help the poor.

Take for example the Rice Scheme - under the TRT/PTP, if there was no corruption it would still have been a failure because they are betting on world rice price would go up by 50% if they can control the flow of rice.

Under the DEM - it was also a failure because of corruption - but if there was no corruption, the Rice Scheme would have been sustainable and was a fair policy at helping the poor.

To solve all these problems, it all starts with education and better law enforcement. So far I can tell you that the govt workers are watching their backs now, my shipping forwarder no longer ask for under table money to bribe customs because its becoming more strict and they are not demanding it. So on the law enforcement, I would say its a big improvement, police don't take bribes as much as well in fear of being filmed and shamed.

It is quite ironic bringing Somkid back. Just hope the general chooses the economic strategies carefully, not just another propaganda campaign to gain votes.

I have my guess that the General is holding on to power because of much larger reasons in the foreseeable future. It has nothing to do with him wanting to be PM. It has to do with the stability of the country as its on the tipping edge about to explode once the domino falls.

"I have my guess that the General is holding on to power because of much larger reasons in the foreseeable future."

Indeed, And he thought they would come to pass a lot quicker than this so he could avoid being told he was clinging to power by his fingernails.

"It has to do with the stability of the country as its on the tipping edge about to explode once the domino falls."

Good comment, and I believe it is absolutely right. Erm Maybe. Allegedly. Perhaps, if I understood what you definitely didn't mean at al, correctly.

Erm no. I think I changed my mind. Awful, outrageous, offensive. Off with his head!

Edited September 10, 2015 by Jon Wetherall