Cleaning lady

[Basil B]

I was reading up on pest control...

I have a nest of wasps in my roof space, after reading which was the best poison and best way to get rid of them, then I cam upon a little pearl of wisdom... if they are no problem leave them alone.

[rubl]

thousands of billionaire generals.-perhaps a little exaggerated regarding numbers but you're right regarding corruption. But that doesn't make Thaksin any the better, and this thread is about Prayud stripping Thaksin of his police rank.About time.

Anyway as regards to the billionaire generals, we can't talk about it, right? We have being warned. But Thaksin, it's no holds bar. Corruption is corruption and you can't talk about one and conveniently sidestepping the others. Just show that you are agenda driven.

You may mention it, so pray tell which general has billions ?

Who knows, we're not allowed to dig into it. Apparently the press found out that Uncle Too was worth several hundred million (before being warned off) but this is of course chump change and should not even be mentioned!

Well, if you answer 'who knows' it seems to suggest you are only repeating rumours without a solid base for such rumours. The billions already get to be hundreds of million and the explanation (sale of land, etc., etc.) conveniently forgotten.

Just nice to annoy people with, allegedly of course. Seems to really hurt more and more, the stripping of the former police rank of Lieutenant-Colonel. Distractions abound.

Edited September 9, 2015 by rubl

[rubl]

There most certainly is a need for a hate-fest and it's been systematically whipped up by the privileged and chattering classes in Thailand more or less ever since the Wat Phra Kaew beat-up. It's not an accident, nor is it naturally-occurring, it's been a deliberate strategy.

The only alternative to the hate campaign against Thaksin is to lay the blame for the massive problems Thailand, which are all self-created, has at the doors of the real authors of the misfortune - themselves and their godfathers.

In my opinion, the Thaksin-haters on TV are victims of a rudimentary opinion-shaping strategy by the privileged and chattering classes. Hook line and sinker. From a psychology perspective, there is a direct relationship between the effectiveness of poor propaganda (i.e. propaganda which relies mainly on telling the lie often enough without much more skill or science) and the IQ of the recipient. This is why the (USA designed and executed) propaganda campaigns in favour of the moneyed classes since the USA lost the Vietnam war have been so successful - a previous 3-4 decades of keeping the proletariat stupid, uneducated and poor, and it's why many people whose only obvious interests are cheap beer/women and occasional low-level chatter between themselves, fall victim to the same strategy. As the saying goes, "when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds soon follow" and it's no secret that a certain category of foreigners are heavily influenced by the blandishments and opinions of a certain class of Thai woman.

So the hate campaign, albeit artificially generated beyond the point where people can actually remember what the substantive reasons were (if there were ever any) is both necessary to the feudal barons, and inevitable. For that reason, neither Thaksin himself (and I'm quite sure he doesn't give a flying Donald about it) nor anyone else should take the hatred seriously. Infra dignitatem.

You mention the "privileged and chattering classes" twice. In your opinion, is Thaksin Shinawatra the elitist, multibillionaire recipient of telecommunications monopolies in Thailand, grandson of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai a member of these "privileged and chattering classes"??

I love it when somebody who has hopelessly swallowed very silly propaganda rails against the notion of others swallowing propaganda LOL

Actually no he isn't and with respect your comments suggest you do not understand the class nuances involved.Thaksin certainly came from a prosperous Chinese/ Thai family but not from the very highest social circle. He was always seen as something of a "new" man by the Bangkok establishment even in the early days when he was quite popular with them.

Indeed there was and is a palpable distaste for Thaksin's nouveau riche persona.One could almost say a rather snobbish attitude.One often hears uninformed people arguing that Thaksin is part of the establishment.It's true only up to a point and a meaningless observation without many caveats.

Any switched on educated Thai knows the score on this - and this is one occasion when it really is difficult for most foreigners to understand the class nuances.

Yes, from fathers side from humble origin, from his mother's mother side minor Lanna Royals.

Of course just by his business empire Thaksin became part of the 'establishment', one of the "do you know who I am" type of people.

I guess that's why through all denials being stripped of his former police rank of Lieutenant-Colonel hurts, or do you think also his 'supporters' hurt for this humble man?

[baboon]

"Well, if you answer 'who knows' it seems to suggest you are only repeating rumours without a solid base for such rumours. The billions already get to be hundreds of million and the explanation (sale of land, etc., etc.) conveniently forgotten.

Just nice to annoy people with, allegedly of course. Seems to really hurt more and more, the stripping of the former police rank of Lieutenant-Colonel. Distractions abound."

You say "It seems to..." an awful lot as usual, so can we take it that this is your actual opinion or not? Just to clarify for the reader..

[rubl]

Thaksin Derangement Syndrome!

Believe it or not, I don't think about Thaksin every day, but I think (maybe) the PM does.

A few observation about these wonderful discussions, all intended as light-hearted (I would love to have a beer with each one of you)...

Yes, rubl, Thaksin is a "fugitive criminal". How many times can you get that phrase into a sentence?

No, Thaksin is not "counting grains of sand" in Dubai. Dubai is no garden spot, but it does have world class restaurants, entertainment, shopping, luxury homes, and an airport with flights to just about anywhere. You could do worse than being a millionaire in Dubai.

If you subscribe to the view that Thaksin is a contemptible, corrupt, person, then you also should acknowledge that the current PM tends to stoop, and get in the gutter when he engages in these little Thaksin jibes. This does nothing for his standing, or for outsider impressions of Thai leadership. The terms "petty" and"childish" come to mind.

My personal view is that Thaksin is just biding his time, engaging in a low level and not very intense campaign of staying on the edge of the fray and out of harms way. One day, the unspeakable event will happen in Thailand, and while that event is inevitable, what happens afterward is unpredictable in its "final outcome".

I will predict one thing. General Prayut will not remain in a position of substantial power. In a culture so influenced by considerations of "face", the General is proving to be a liability. Besides, I do not credit him with the cunning required; and I often wonder who is pulling his strings.

All this just confirms that Thaksin is hurt by the stripping of his former police rank and his supporters seem to feel the pain with and for him.

Mind you, personally I think the RTP force is in need of a wee bit more cleanup than just getting formally rid of this criminal fugitive.

[rubl]

"Plump for Thaksin"?

No booty calls from the great lady suggests perhaps not.

Well, one day free choice will be available and then we'll all know. But that isn't the case today. Personally I think JAG had it right

When / if that day comes we won't know. Thaksin, as a convicted criminal fugitive won't be able to stand. Not sure how the other serious 15 or so outstanding criminal cases affect that.

He won't come back without a full amnesty, for everything ever. The Krungthai Bank case convictions with him being number 1 defendant show why he really ran.

I imagine he'll rort the system to quash the charges. Much like Mr P rorts the system to make everything he does legal. It's easy enough to do because when/if he comes back there will likely be a huge purge of the real criminals and thieves in Thailand.. His only conviction was very dodgy indeed, I am conditioned to think that any charge leveled at him by his former elite friends will be bogus as well.

And it wasn't Thaksin who made me think that way..

You mean like the 2 billion Thaksin ordered a State Bank to borrow to Myanmar so they could buy services from his satellite company? Charges like that ?

Too rich to need to be corrupt and can't even wait to help himself while being PM? A tearful "simple and honest mistake' to start his premiership?

Oh, by the way, you may have missed this, but four years or so ago Thaksin stated that when he would come back and everyone saw he wasn't out for revenge, all would love him for his mild and benevolent way. Humble man, like an 'honest John'

Edited September 9, 2015 by rubl

[Skywalker69]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

Because Thaksin was elected democratically and he wasn't........................................

BS!!!!

Alas, not BS but recorded fact. He won elections, the Democrats didn't. End of story really.

[rubl]

Siripon - Did Thaksin run away with your missus or something? You certainly seem to have a bee in your bonnet...

baboon, please don't display your ignorance of Thailand, I'm a woman who works in a bank that will remain nameless. I have no bee in my bonnet about Thaksin but perhaps I know more than some folks here. People in banking know all about transactions using gardeners, maids names involving millions of baht.

Oh you mean tax avoidance (with a splattering of evasion) like all the mega-rich in Thailand, and the rest of the world partake in. Damn him!

As for being all-knowing...what a load of BS. Suthep, Dr. Tul, Blue Sky....have dragged every possible detail, regardless of validity or evidence, up and splattered & spewed it from every yellow stage & screen they could get onto.

You are just a typical privileged, blinkered & brainwashed yellow.

Ah yes, Amply Rich sales of shares in Telecom the day a new law made is possible. No tax paid. The PM leading by example. Introduce new laws to be able to profit first. The 'conflict of interest' case Thaksin was convicted for is minor compared with other cases which await his return and presence in court to be able to commence.

The RTP is lucky to get rid of this person without having to shoulder the blame of being responsible for applying the law.

Oh it hurts, to some at least. Never before did we see such distractions thrown about.

[rubl]

Obviously the PM doesn't really know how to run a country. Desperation is setting in. Xenophobia isn't a great quality either.

The 'obviously' means you should explain yourself. The 'desperation' in relation to the topic seems on the side of the Thaksin supporters who hurt, hurt, hurt. What xenophobia got to do with all this I have no idea.

Maybe try again ?

[phoenixdoglover]

Thaksin Derangement Syndrome!

Believe it or not, I don't think about Thaksin every day, but I think (maybe) the PM does.

A few observation about these wonderful discussions, all intended as light-hearted (I would love to have a beer with each one of you)...

Yes, rubl, Thaksin is a "fugitive criminal". How many times can you get that phrase into a sentence?

No, Thaksin is not "counting grains of sand" in Dubai. Dubai is no garden spot, but it does have world class restaurants, entertainment, shopping, luxury homes, and an airport with flights to just about anywhere. You could do worse than being a millionaire in Dubai.

If you subscribe to the view that Thaksin is a contemptible, corrupt, person, then you also should acknowledge that the current PM tends to stoop, and get in the gutter when he engages in these little Thaksin jibes. This does nothing for his standing, or for outsider impressions of Thai leadership. The terms "petty" and"childish" come to mind.

My personal view is that Thaksin is just biding his time, engaging in a low level and not very intense campaign of staying on the edge of the fray and out of harms way. One day, the unspeakable event will happen in Thailand, and while that event is inevitable, what happens afterward is unpredictable in its "final outcome".

I will predict one thing. General Prayut will not remain in a position of substantial power. In a culture so influenced by considerations of "face", the General is proving to be a liability. Besides, I do not credit him with the cunning required; and I often wonder who is pulling his strings.

All this just confirms that Thaksin is hurt by the stripping of his former police rank and his supporters seem to feel the pain with and for him.

Mind you, personally I think the RTP force is in need of a wee bit more cleanup than just getting formally rid of this criminal fugitive.

It confirms nothing about whether "Thaksin is hurt". That is a state of mind neither you nor I are privy to.

[rubl]

Thaksin Derangement Syndrome!

Believe it or not, I don't think about Thaksin every day, but I think (maybe) the PM does.

A few observation about these wonderful discussions, all intended as light-hearted (I would love to have a beer with each one of you)...

Yes, rubl, Thaksin is a "fugitive criminal". How many times can you get that phrase into a sentence?

No, Thaksin is not "counting grains of sand" in Dubai. Dubai is no garden spot, but it does have world class restaurants, entertainment, shopping, luxury homes, and an airport with flights to just about anywhere. You could do worse than being a millionaire in Dubai.

If you subscribe to the view that Thaksin is a contemptible, corrupt, person, then you also should acknowledge that the current PM tends to stoop, and get in the gutter when he engages in these little Thaksin jibes. This does nothing for his standing, or for outsider impressions of Thai leadership. The terms "petty" and"childish" come to mind.

My personal view is that Thaksin is just biding his time, engaging in a low level and not very intense campaign of staying on the edge of the fray and out of harms way. One day, the unspeakable event will happen in Thailand, and while that event is inevitable, what happens afterward is unpredictable in its "final outcome".

I will predict one thing. General Prayut will not remain in a position of substantial power. In a culture so influenced by considerations of "face", the General is proving to be a liability. Besides, I do not credit him with the cunning required; and I often wonder who is pulling his strings.

All this just confirms that Thaksin is hurt by the stripping of his former police rank and his supporters seem to feel the pain with and for him.

Mind you, personally I think the RTP force is in need of a wee bit more cleanup than just getting formally rid of this criminal fugitive.

It confirms nothing about whether "Thaksin is hurt". That is a state of mind neither you nor I are privy to.

You mean those posters with distractions are doing that just for fun, trolling like?

Over the last two months or so, those same posters moved from "it's illegal to do so" to "it's illegal to do it this way". Now maybe Thaksin doesn't hurt, but he seems a wee bit peeved. Didn't he say before "if you think it helps reconciliation" as it that had any relation to the stripping of a former police rank from a convicted criminal.

[Thai at Heart]

Th

Thaksin being petulant as usual, his vanity knows no bounds, and his minions at Krungthai Bank have just received jail terms of 18 years.As the mastermind what can he expect ? More years of counting the grains of sand in the Dubai desert.

Glad to see you retain your delightfully batty set of priorities.That's exactly what Thailand needs now - another Orwellian hate fest.After all there aren't any more pressing issues to be dealt with.Still on the plus side it has the merit of distracting attention from the daily roll call of stupidity, corruption,arrogance, incompetence and brutality.

I don't think Thaksin is too concerned at being stuck in Dubai counting grains of sand.He seems to be far more welcome in far more countries than the Generalissimo.

I think Thaksin is very concerned at being stuck in the desert and unable to come back to his homeland. His own ex-wife and mother of his 3 children hasn't visited him in 7 years, I wonder why, perhaps his vanity was too much for her finally.

The older you get the more important family becomes and it must surely hurt to only have sand dunes to gaze at. Money can only do so much.

He doesn't give a damn, because he believes one day he will return innocent and vindicated. Then watch the storm of retribution.

He knows every bit of dodgy business they have all done. He was one of them. They are all in it up to their eyeballs.

You think he cares about a police rank and pension, when he is now playing for it All.

There are no clean hands at the top of Thai society and bureaucracy. None.

[Thai at Heart]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

That's a very good question. And the answer is - because Thaksin can call on an election-winning number of people to support him. Prayuth can call on his Mum, Prem and few of the barstool-squatters in TVF.

Oh, and the International community thinks he's an interloper. And they're right.

Thaksin knows all their favours given and taken to get where they are.

[NovaBlue05]

I was reading up on pest control...

I have a nest of wasps in my roof space, after reading which was the best poison and best way to get rid of them, then I cam upon a little pearl of wisdom... if they are no problem leave them alone.

And really....If you control your house and the wasp isn't even in your roof but is far away in a roof in a distant country, don't even acknowledge its existence. Otherwise, the wasp and its swarm might get the crazy idea that you fear it and are easily manipulated

[NovaBlue05]

Sorry BB, but there is something in the very first line of your comment that I do not agree with.

There is no way known he is a "newbie". He has been haunting this forum for years, under various different names.

Moreover, if he is a "newbie" he is just as entitled to express an opinion as you are, my old preacher!

I hear the term "newbie" occasionally used in a condescending way here and on other forums. Does post count actually improve ones wisdom in sorting out the "complexities" of the issues discussed here....?

Of course it doesn't. Without going into detail I am probably more qualified than most on TV and some of the old-timers who demand respect for time served hate it. When the above people slag me off for being a newbie, they are really demonstrating their own incompetence and how it feels when they realise it. it's not nice for them.

It really doesn't worry me very much. People either read my posts and agree with them, or read them and disagree with them or don't read them. Either way, I and my wife and children will eat tomorrow because I've worked and studied. Not because I have people who are willing to like me.

So I don't really give a monkeys if people call me a newbie for not respecting time served. Life sucks and then they will die and I just won't care at all. One man's meat is another man's poison.

Perhaps the continued evolution of the internet and associated forums will create a new breed of barstool warrior. Instead of regaling those within earshot of your courageous exploits in the Bore War or other conflict of choice, you can instead render them spellbound with stories of reaching milestone post counts 2500….5000…10000…on TVF

[jaidam]

There most certainly is a need for a hate-fest and it's been systematically whipped up by the privileged and chattering classes in Thailand more or less ever since the Wat Phra Kaew beat-up. It's not an accident, nor is it naturally-occurring, it's been a deliberate strategy.

The only alternative to the hate campaign against Thaksin is to lay the blame for the massive problems Thailand, which are all self-created, has at the doors of the real authors of the misfortune - themselves and their godfathers.

In my opinion, the Thaksin-haters on TV are victims of a rudimentary opinion-shaping strategy by the privileged and chattering classes. Hook line and sinker. From a psychology perspective, there is a direct relationship between the effectiveness of poor propaganda (i.e. propaganda which relies mainly on telling the lie often enough without much more skill or science) and the IQ of the recipient. This is why the (USA designed and executed) propaganda campaigns in favour of the moneyed classes since the USA lost the Vietnam war have been so successful - a previous 3-4 decades of keeping the proletariat stupid, uneducated and poor, and it's why many people whose only obvious interests are cheap beer/women and occasional low-level chatter between themselves, fall victim to the same strategy. As the saying goes, "when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds soon follow" and it's no secret that a certain category of foreigners are heavily influenced by the blandishments and opinions of a certain class of Thai woman.

So the hate campaign, albeit artificially generated beyond the point where people can actually remember what the substantive reasons were (if there were ever any) is both necessary to the feudal barons, and inevitable. For that reason, neither Thaksin himself (and I'm quite sure he doesn't give a flying Donald about it) nor anyone else should take the hatred seriously. Infra dignitatem.

You mention the "privileged and chattering classes" twice. In your opinion, is Thaksin Shinawatra the elitist, multibillionaire recipient of telecommunications monopolies in Thailand, grandson of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai a member of these "privileged and chattering classes"??

I love it when somebody who has hopelessly swallowed very silly propaganda rails against the notion of others swallowing propaganda LOL

Actually no he isn't and with respect your comments suggest you do not understand the class nuances involved.Thaksin certainly came from a prosperous Chinese/ Thai family but not from the very highest social circle. He was always seen as something of a "new" man by the Bangkok establishment even in the early days when he was quite popular with them.

Indeed there was and is a palpable distaste for Thaksin's nouveau riche persona.One could almost say a rather snobbish attitude.One often hears uninformed people arguing that Thaksin is part of the establishment.It's true only up to a point and a meaningless observation without many caveats.

Any switched on educated Thai knows the score on this - and this is one occasion when it really is difficult for most foreigners to understand the class nuances.

Yes, from fathers side from humble origin, from his mother's mother side minor Lanna Royals.

Of course just by his business empire Thaksin became part of the 'establishment', one of the "do you know who I am" type of people.

I guess that's why through all denials being stripped of his former police rank of Lieutenant-Colonel hurts, or do you think also his 'supporters' hurt for this humble man?

His father Lert, was an MP in Chiangmai as well as a money lender(sets my mafiosi warning bells ringing a treat), not exactly humble origins which more suggest to me that he was a rice farmer or similar. No, he was a member of the elite - or for the sakes of this thread one of the "privileged and chattering classes".

[hawker9000]

Th

Thaksin being petulant as usual, his vanity knows no bounds, and his minions at Krungthai Bank have just received jail terms of 18 years.As the mastermind what can he expect ? More years of counting the grains of sand in the Dubai desert.

Glad to see you retain your delightfully batty set of priorities.That's exactly what Thailand needs now - another Orwellian hate fest.After all there aren't any more pressing issues to be dealt with.Still on the plus side it has the merit of distracting attention from the daily roll call of stupidity, corruption,arrogance, incompetence and brutality.

I don't think Thaksin is too concerned at being stuck in Dubai counting grains of sand.He seems to be far more welcome in far more countries than the Generalissimo.

I think Thaksin is very concerned at being stuck in the desert and unable to come back to his homeland. His own ex-wife and mother of his 3 children hasn't visited him in 7 years, I wonder why, perhaps his vanity was too much for her finally.

The older you get the more important family becomes and it must surely hurt to only have sand dunes to gaze at. Money can only do so much.

He doesn't give a damn, because he believes one day he will return innocent and vindicated. Then watch the storm of retribution.

He knows every bit of dodgy business they have all done. He was one of them. They are all in it up to their eyeballs.

You think he cares about a police rank and pension, when he is now playing for it All.

There are no clean hands at the top of Thai society and bureaucracy. None.

"he believes one day he will return innocent and vindicated. Then watch the storm of retribution."

I actually used to believe that there was at least some chance of this happening one day, certainly not because I ever thought it would be a good thing, but simply because of his wealth, his continued influence, and last but not least his overriding self-interest and lust for power. But I'm coming around to the view that he's past the point of no return. He couldn't come back again without igniting a true firestorm and precipitating a violent divide that would fracture Thailand dramatically. Maybe someday in his final years when he no longer poses any credible political threat. At that point I can even see him getting a pardon.

[speedtripler]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

That's a very good question. And the answer is - because Thaksin can call on an election-winning number of people to support him. Prayuth can call on his Mum, Prem and few of the barstool-squatters in TVF.

Oh, and the International community thinks he's an interloper. And they're right.

Thaksin knows all their favours given and taken to get where they are.

^this is it in a nutshell ^

we can all blame thaksin for the corruption but being honest ,he was only one of thousands of others equally corrupt

ok ,he stole the most and the 2nd runner up is not even close ......an obscene amount of money oficially recorded as around 2 bilion dollars

but i think he was others in his position would have pilfered the same if they were in a position to do so ....

he would probably win an election 2mo because most thais i know agree hes corrupt ,but having lived through the ;last decade most agree that

life was cheaper and better under mr T and people had more money than now ......everything has doubled in price since thaksin disappeared

corruption is supposed to have ended but it didnt ,you can do the same things as before

,but now the weekly envelope must be twice as thick

reform is a nice idea but when it means a choice of having a couple of k disposable income each week vs nothing ......well guess what they will choose ........

this is likly why the general wont go head to head with thaksin in any popularity contests.......

[hawker9000]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

That's a very good question. And the answer is - because Thaksin can call on an election-winning number of people to support him. Prayuth can call on his Mum, Prem and few of the barstool-squatters in TVF.

Oh, and the International community thinks he's an interloper. And they're right.

Thaksin knows all their favours given and taken to get where they are.

^this is it in a nutshell ^

we can all blame thaksin for the corruption but being honest ,he was only one of thousands of others equally corrupt

ok ,he stole the most and the 2nd runner up is not even close ......an obscene amount of money oficially recorded as around 2 bilion dollars

but i think he was others in his position would have pilfered the same if they were in a position to do so ....

he would probably win an election 2mo because most thais i know agree hes corrupt ,but having lived through the ;last decade most agree that

life was cheaper and better under mr T and people had more money than now ......everything has doubled in price since thaksin disappeared

corruption is supposed to have ended but it didnt ,you can do the same things as before

,but now the weekly envelope must be twice as thick

reform is a nice idea but when it means a choice of having a couple of k disposable income each week vs nothing ......well guess what they will choose ........

this is likly why the general wont go head to head with thaksin in any popularity contests.......

Pablo Escobar was "popular", too. 'Donated lots of money to charities & soccer clubs.

'Responsible for the deaths of thousands.

[rixalex]

......everything has doubled in price since thaksin disappeared

Three of the six Prime Ministers since Thaksin "disappeared", led the country as Thaksin's proxy, with the last one being his very own sister (whom he described as being his clone), and another one being his brother-in-law, so if you are going to give him the credit for the good health of the economy whilst he was PM, you surely have to blame him, at least in part, for what has happened since, including the inflation you mention.

[mikemac]

Ah the newbie springs to defend Thaksin the Innocent.

You must have believed his every word when he said he'd never ever done anything wrong, ever, in all his life, on CNN. That's why all those countries were so quick to defend him and call for his or his little sister's immediate return to power............... oh, but wait, not one single country did. Not even his eternal mate, the ex terrorist dictator next door.

All those corruption cases waiting in the courts, including the one where co-defendants just got 18 year sentences, must be just hate in his case. He's whiter than the driven snow, champion of the poor, gives huge amounts of his personal hard earned wealth away, paid of the IMF loan personally, and should probably have several noble prizes already. There, you can be happy in your fantasy world.

He's a corrupt egotistical power crazed maniac who is without any morals, ethics or concerns for any but his family. He is part of the rich elites that are ethnic Chinese and has inflicted countless damage on Thailand and the Thai people for his personal benefit.

You are right, he probably doesn't give a toss about the hatred because he has convinced himself that the people love him and adore his crooked family. That his rightful place is to be supreme leader and that he all those cases against him are lies are well not really that important at least. In short he's a nutter, a very rich, vindictive and dangerous nutter.

Now you can continue to believe he's the next Santa Claus, Mother Theresa and Mandela all rolled into one if you want. Or you can admit reality. He's as bent and morally bankrupt as the worst of them - Marcos, Mugabe, Hun Set etc - he's right up there with them.

Sorry BB, but there is something in the very first line of your comment that I do not agree with.

There is no way known he is a "newbie". He has been haunting this forum for years, under various different names.

Moreover, if he is a "newbie" he is just as entitled to express an opinion as you are, my old preacher!

Sorry if you took my comment the wrong way JAG, but I did not say he was not entitled to an opinion. I just indicated to BB that I did not agree with him calling him a newbie.

And I am not your old preacher.

[JAG]

My wrong there, I was trying (hoping) to reply to Baerboxer - he is the preacher!

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post has been removed

[mikemac]

He doesn't give a damn, because he believes one day he will return innocent and vindicated. Then watch the storm of retribution.

He knows every bit of dodgy business they have all done. He was one of them. They are all in it up to their eyeballs.

You think he cares about a police rank and pension, when he is now playing for it All.

There are no clean hands at the top of Thai society and bureaucracy. None.

"he believes one day he will return innocent and vindicated. Then watch the storm of retribution."

I actually used to believe that there was at least some chance of this happening one day, certainly not because I ever thought it would be a good thing, but simply because of his wealth, his continued influence, and last but not least his overriding self-interest and lust for power. But I'm coming around to the view that he's past the point of no return. He couldn't come back again without igniting a true firestorm and precipitating a violent divide that would fracture Thailand dramatically. Maybe someday in his final years when he no longer poses any credible political threat. At that point I can even see him getting a pardon.

..................."without igniting a true firestorm and precipitating a violent divide that would fracture Thailand dramatically."................

Been there, done that. 2010, Bangkok.

[Thai at Heart]

There most certainly is a need for a hate-fest and it's been systematically whipped up by the privileged and chattering classes in Thailand more or less ever since the Wat Phra Kaew beat-up. It's not an accident, nor is it naturally-occurring, it's been a deliberate strategy.

The only alternative to the hate campaign against Thaksin is to lay the blame for the massive problems Thailand, which are all self-created, has at the doors of the real authors of the misfortune - themselves and their godfathers.

In my opinion, the Thaksin-haters on TV are victims of a rudimentary opinion-shaping strategy by the privileged and chattering classes. Hook line and sinker. From a psychology perspective, there is a direct relationship between the effectiveness of poor propaganda (i.e. propaganda which relies mainly on telling the lie often enough without much more skill or science) and the IQ of the recipient. This is why the (USA designed and executed) propaganda campaigns in favour of the moneyed classes since the USA lost the Vietnam war have been so successful - a previous 3-4 decades of keeping the proletariat stupid, uneducated and poor, and it's why many people whose only obvious interests are cheap beer/women and occasional low-level chatter between themselves, fall victim to the same strategy. As the saying goes, "when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds soon follow" and it's no secret that a certain category of foreigners are heavily influenced by the blandishments and opinions of a certain class of Thai woman.

So the hate campaign, albeit artificially generated beyond the point where people can actually remember what the substantive reasons were (if there were ever any) is both necessary to the feudal barons, and inevitable. For that reason, neither Thaksin himself (and I'm quite sure he doesn't give a flying Donald about it) nor anyone else should take the hatred seriously. Infra dignitatem.

You mention the "privileged and chattering classes" twice. In your opinion, is Thaksin Shinawatra the elitist, multibillionaire recipient of telecommunications monopolies in Thailand, grandson of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai a member of these "privileged and chattering classes"??

I love it when somebody who has hopelessly swallowed very silly propaganda rails against the notion of others swallowing propaganda LOL

Actually no he isn't and with respect your comments suggest you do not understand the class nuances involved.Thaksin certainly came from a prosperous Chinese/ Thai family but not from the very highest social circle. He was always seen as something of a "new" man by the Bangkok establishment even in the early days when he was quite popular with them.

Indeed there was and is a palpable distaste for Thaksin's nouveau riche persona.One could almost say a rather snobbish attitude.One often hears uninformed people arguing that Thaksin is part of the establishment.It's true only up to a point and a meaningless observation without many caveats.

Any switched on educated Thai knows the score on this - and this is one occasion when it really is difficult for most foreigners to understand the class nuances.

Yes, from fathers side from humble origin, from his mother's mother side minor Lanna Royals.

Of course just by his business empire Thaksin became part of the 'establishment', one of the "do you know who I am" type of people.

I guess that's why through all denials being stripped of his former police rank of Lieutenant-Colonel hurts, or do you think also his 'supporters' hurt for this humble man?

His father Lert, was an MP in Chiangmai as well as a money lender(sets my mafiosi warning bells ringing a treat), not exactly humble origins which more suggest to me that he was a rice farmer or similar. No, he was a member of the elite - or for the sakes of this thread one of the "privileged and chattering classes".

If you understand power structures in Thailand, being from Chiangmai and a money lender doesn't admit you to being one of the elite.

He was a provincial power broker.

Thaksin didn't respect the long standing elite in Bangkok and was going to shake up all their businesses out of spite because the Democrats reformed telecoms after the 97 crash whilst keeping all their businesses protected.

[mikemac]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

That's a very good question. And the answer is - because Thaksin can call on an election-winning number of people to support him. Prayuth can call on his Mum, Prem and few of the barstool-squatters in TVF.

Oh, and the International community thinks he's an interloper. And they're right.

Thaksin knows all their favours given and taken to get where they are.

^this is it in a nutshell ^

we can all blame thaksin for the corruption but being honest ,he was only one of thousands of others equally corrupt

ok ,he stole the most and the 2nd runner up is not even close ......an obscene amount of money oficially recorded as around 2 bilion dollars

but i think he was others in his position would have pilfered the same if they were in a position to do so ....

he would probably win an election 2mo because most thais i know agree hes corrupt ,but having lived through the ;last decade most agree that

life was cheaper and better under mr T and people had more money than now ......everything has doubled in price since thaksin disappeared

corruption is supposed to have ended but it didnt ,you can do the same things as before

,but now the weekly envelope must be twice as thick

reform is a nice idea but when it means a choice of having a couple of k disposable income each week vs nothing ......well guess what they will choose ........

this is likly why the general wont go head to head with thaksin in any popularity contests.......

The PM does not have to worry about how popular he is, he took the position he is in by force, via a Military coup. Thaksin went the other way, he "bought" his position of PM in various ways, then lost it because of his greedy, lawbreaking ways.

There will never be a popularity contest as one does not have to be popular, and the other will be thrown in prison if he ever plucks up the courage to come home.

[Rhys]

More PT Sgt, More PT, we like it, we love, we want more of it.. UGH.. Drive on..

[jayboy]

You mention the "privileged and chattering classes" twice. In your opinion, is Thaksin Shinawatra the elitist, multibillionaire recipient of telecommunications monopolies in Thailand, grandson of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai a member of these "privileged and chattering classes"??

I love it when somebody who has hopelessly swallowed very silly propaganda rails against the notion of others swallowing propaganda LOL

Actually no he isn't and with respect your comments suggest you do not understand the class nuances involved.Thaksin certainly came from a prosperous Chinese/ Thai family but not from the very highest social circle. He was always seen as something of a "new" man by the Bangkok establishment even in the early days when he was quite popular with them.

Indeed there was and is a palpable distaste for Thaksin's nouveau riche persona.One could almost say a rather snobbish attitude.One often hears uninformed people arguing that Thaksin is part of the establishment.It's true only up to a point and a meaningless observation without many caveats.

Any switched on educated Thai knows the score on this - and this is one occasion when it really is difficult for most foreigners to understand the class nuances.

Yes, from fathers side from humble origin, from his mother's mother side minor Lanna Royals.

Of course just by his business empire Thaksin became part of the 'establishment', one of the "do you know who I am" type of people.

I guess that's why through all denials being stripped of his former police rank of Lieutenant-Colonel hurts, or do you think also his 'supporters' hurt for this humble man?

His father Lert, was an MP in Chiangmai as well as a money lender(sets my mafiosi warning bells ringing a treat), not exactly humble origins which more suggest to me that he was a rice farmer or similar. No, he was a member of the elite - or for the sakes of this thread one of the "privileged and chattering classes".

Unless one defines terms like "elite" all these arguments are unclear.For anyone who is genuinely interested, the chapters on family and background in Pasuk Phongpaichit/Chris Baker's "Thaksin" provide comprehensive coverage and answer most of the questions being posed in this thread.

The Shinawatras were definitely wealth and well connected in Chiangmai.If this means they were "elite" in some ways they were (amazingly extensive kinship links in army, police, bureaucracy).But they were not as Chinese-Thai provincials quite seen as social equals by the Bangkok establishment (and still are not )

As I mentioned earlier, any well connected/educated Thai would tell you the same.These nuances are quite hard for outsiders to grasp.After all to take a UK example what would foreigners make of some grandee's comment about Michael Heseltine -"the kind of man who has to buy his own furniture".Foreigners would be puzzled since Heseltine was clearly Tory toff, and would completely miss the nuance.

Having said that it's easy to make to much of this.What really pisses off the establishment is not his social status, upstart personality and vulgarity but rather because for whatever reason he threatened their vested interests by giving the Thai majority a voice.

[Thai at Heart]

You mention the "privileged and chattering classes" twice. In your opinion, is Thaksin Shinawatra the elitist, multibillionaire recipient of telecommunications monopolies in Thailand, grandson of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai a member of these "privileged and chattering classes"??

I love it when somebody who has hopelessly swallowed very silly propaganda rails against the notion of others swallowing propaganda LOL

Actually no he isn't and with respect your comments suggest you do not understand the class nuances involved.Thaksin certainly came from a prosperous Chinese/ Thai family but not from the very highest social circle. He was always seen as something of a "new" man by the Bangkok establishment even in the early days when he was quite popular with them.

Indeed there was and is a palpable distaste for Thaksin's nouveau riche persona.One could almost say a rather snobbish attitude.One often hears uninformed people arguing that Thaksin is part of the establishment.It's true only up to a point and a meaningless observation without many caveats.

Any switched on educated Thai knows the score on this - and this is one occasion when it really is difficult for most foreigners to understand the class nuances.

Yes, from fathers side from humble origin, from his mother's mother side minor Lanna Royals.

Of course just by his business empire Thaksin became part of the 'establishment', one of the "do you know who I am" type of people.

I guess that's why through all denials being stripped of his former police rank of Lieutenant-Colonel hurts, or do you think also his 'supporters' hurt for this humble man?

His father Lert, was an MP in Chiangmai as well as a money lender(sets my mafiosi warning bells ringing a treat), not exactly humble origins which more suggest to me that he was a rice farmer or similar. No, he was a member of the elite - or for the sakes of this thread one of the "privileged and chattering classes".

Unless one defines terms like "elite" all these arguments are unclear.For anyone who is genuinely interested, the chapters on family and background in Pasuk Phongpaichit/Chris Baker's "Thaksin" provide comprehensive coverage and answer most of the questions being posed in this thread.

The Shinawatras were definitely wealth and well connected in Chiangmai.If this means they were "elite" in some ways they were (amazingly extensive kinship links in army, police, bureaucracy).But they were not as Chinese-Thai provincials quite seen as social equals by the Bangkok establishment (and still are not )

As I mentioned earlier, any well connected/educated Thai would tell you the same.These nuances are quite hard for outsiders to grasp.After all to take a UK example what would foreigners make of some grandee's comment about Michael Heseltine -"the kind of man who has to buy his own furniture".Foreigners would be puzzled since Heseltine was clearly Tory toff, and would completely miss the nuance.

Having said that it's easy to make to much of this.What really pisses off the establishment is not his social status, upstart personality and vulgarity but rather because for whatever reason he threatened their vested interests by giving the Thai majority a voice.

Heseltine was Welsh money who's great grandparents were farmers. Family amassed wealth from coal and other investments.

Hardly the stuff of the landed gentry.... It's like discussing if Richard Branson is part of the British elite. He's got pots of wealth, but he doesn't make it yet. Lady Di didn't even cut it.

Thaksin threatened the elite by daring to think he might open protected industries to foreign entry.

Anyone fancy having bank of America or barclays on the high street. Walmart owning their own business 100% in the retailing or allow Macalpines directly into construction?

Billions have been accrued through silent 49% partnerships or skirting around the nominee rules, which some companies just will not do.

This is how the elite have acquired their enormous wealth in Thailand. Sitting behind protected industries forcing foreign companies to partner with them to gain "access".

All for a small nominal fee of course.

Which industry was the only one forced to liberalise after 97? Telecoms.... How's that for putting someone in their place?

Edited September 10, 2015 by Thai at Heart

[jayboy]

You mention the "privileged and chattering classes" twice. In your opinion, is Thaksin Shinawatra the elitist, multibillionaire recipient of telecommunications monopolies in Thailand, grandson of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai a member of these "privileged and chattering classes"??

I love it when somebody who has hopelessly swallowed very silly propaganda rails against the notion of others swallowing propaganda LOL

Actually no he isn't and with respect your comments suggest you do not understand the class nuances involved.Thaksin certainly came from a prosperous Chinese/ Thai family but not from the very highest social circle. He was always seen as something of a "new" man by the Bangkok establishment even in the early days when he was quite popular with them.

Indeed there was and is a palpable distaste for Thaksin's nouveau riche persona.One could almost say a rather snobbish attitude.One often hears uninformed people arguing that Thaksin is part of the establishment.It's true only up to a point and a meaningless observation without many caveats.

Any switched on educated Thai knows the score on this - and this is one occasion when it really is difficult for most foreigners to understand the class nuances.

Yes, from fathers side from humble origin, from his mother's mother side minor Lanna Royals.

Of course just by his business empire Thaksin became part of the 'establishment', one of the "do you know who I am" type of people.

I guess that's why through all denials being stripped of his former police rank of Lieutenant-Colonel hurts, or do you think also his 'supporters' hurt for this humble man?

His father Lert, was an MP in Chiangmai as well as a money lender(sets my mafiosi warning bells ringing a treat), not exactly humble origins which more suggest to me that he was a rice farmer or similar. No, he was a member of the elite - or for the sakes of this thread one of the "privileged and chattering classes".

Unless one defines terms like "elite" all these arguments are unclear.For anyone who is genuinely interested, the chapters on family and background in Pasuk Phongpaichit/Chris Baker's "Thaksin" provide comprehensive coverage and answer most of the questions being posed in this thread.

The Shinawatras were definitely wealth and well connected in Chiangmai.If this means they were "elite" in some ways they were (amazingly extensive kinship links in army, police, bureaucracy).But they were not as Chinese-Thai provincials quite seen as social equals by the Bangkok establishment (and still are not )

As I mentioned earlier, any well connected/educated Thai would tell you the same.These nuances are quite hard for outsiders to grasp.After all to take a UK example what would foreigners make of some grandee's comment about Michael Heseltine -"the kind of man who has to buy his own furniture".Foreigners would be puzzled since Heseltine was clearly Tory toff, and would completely miss the nuance.

Having said that it's easy to make to much of this.What really pisses off the establishment is not his social status, upstart personality and vulgarity but rather because for whatever reason he threatened their vested interests by giving the Thai majority a voice.

Heseltine was Welsh money who's great grandparents were farmers. Family amassed wealth from coal and other investments.

Hardly the stuff of the landed gentry.... It's like discussing if Richard Branson is part of the British elite. He's got pots of wealth, but he doesn't make it yet. Lady Di didn't even cut it.

I don't think these distinctions matter very much in the UK now thankfully.Branson came from a wealthy family and attended an elite school.Heseltine made his own money in publishing.Dont know what you mean re Lady Di.The Spencers are posher than the Windsors, ie long term English aristos not recent rivals from obscure German principalities.