Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[sweatalot]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

The biggest problem with the semen samples is not that they were contaminated (though that is a possible issue) but that, bafflingly, there is no residual sample left for retesting. All that is left is intermediate replicated DNA from an intermediate step in the testing. This replicated DNA cannot be confirmed to have originated with a semen sample, and degrades rapidly unlike the original semen sample. Should the remainder of the semen sample finally be found (or clothes from the victims reappear) professional forensic analysis and an objective investigation could still occur. I do not consider it probable, given the vested interests lobbying against, but it is certainly possible.

why do you still answer him?

[Darkknight666]

It's time for people think seriously about replying to two certain posters and in my opinion one has certainly shown his true colours .

He even questioned another poster by pm when asked to drop the subject yesterday for one day out of respect .

Thats the type of request no one should question.

Respect is a big thing and the kind words yesterday that were expressed by many posters shows there true feelings and emotions.

The posters that have just been here to defend every RTP posts really shows now their agenda is just one sided.

They have no other interest other that getting these threads closed down.

So many posters have been given holidays due to these people simply because that can't sit back and accept the insults the certain RTP defenders are throwing.

This is only my personal opinion, everybody has a right to post but don't let them get to you because going on past history on this thread and others the respectful posters have been given holidays and the RTP defenders remain.

It is time to completely ignore them and keep these threads open they are important .

99.9 percent of posters want the complete truth to come out it appears others don't .

I am sure many times info that has arisen on these threads has been very useful to the case.

Thank you Stealth, that needed to be said. I didn't post yesterday out of respect for David and Hannah and I'm glad I did.

I imagine the Thai pathologist did about as thorough a job as the RTP do, In that case the Brit pathologist may have some DNA from the victims that a private investigator could use upon getting DNA from any suspects. I really want to see them pay, you have no idea. The posters who are defending the case do so out of personal interest on the Island, after reading a few of GB's recent post's he makes it clear he sympathizes with Mon and his family.... Therefor all of his ramblings shouldn't carry much weight with anyone, just let the guy type into space, ignore if you have to. Enough is enough.

[GOLDBUGGY]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

The biggest problem with the semen samples is not that they were contaminated (though that is a possible issue) but that, bafflingly, there is no residual sample left for retesting. All that is left is intermediate replicated DNA from an intermediate step in the testing. This replicated DNA cannot be confirmed to have originated with a semen sample, and degrades rapidly unlike the original semen sample. Should the remainder of the semen sample finally be found (or clothes from the victims reappear) professional forensic analysis and an objective investigation could still occur. I do not consider it probable, given the vested interests lobbying against, but it is certainly possible.

Like most here I am not really sure what is available and if there is no residual sample left. There has been conflicting statements on this for months now. I do agree that some DNA has been replicated. The last read I have is that the blond hair is not lost, so where that came from I don't know. Here is what I read:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/24/uk-thailand-britain-murders-idUKKCN0PY0A820150724

[GOLDBUGGY]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

The biggest problem with the semen samples is not that they were contaminated (though that is a possible issue) but that, bafflingly, there is no residual sample left for retesting. All that is left is intermediate replicated DNA from an intermediate step in the testing. This replicated DNA cannot be confirmed to have originated with a semen sample, and degrades rapidly unlike the original semen sample. Should the remainder of the semen sample finally be found (or clothes from the victims reappear) professional forensic analysis and an objective investigation could still occur. I do not consider it probable, given the vested interests lobbying against, but it is certainly possible.

Also from this post the Defense Team doesn't seem to have a problem running "Duplicated Samples" so I was surprised, like most, why they refused to run tests on the DNA from Hannah.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/24/uk-thailand-britain-murders-idUKKCN0PY0A820150724

[GOLDBUGGY]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

The biggest problem with the semen samples is not that they were contaminated (though that is a possible issue) but that, bafflingly, there is no residual sample left for retesting. All that is left is intermediate replicated DNA from an intermediate step in the testing. This replicated DNA cannot be confirmed to have originated with a semen sample, and degrades rapidly unlike the original semen sample. Should the remainder of the semen sample finally be found (or clothes from the victims reappear) professional forensic analysis and an objective investigation could still occur. I do not consider it probable, given the vested interests lobbying against, but it is certainly possible.

why do you still answer him?

Well I am not sure but maybe because it is an open forum that allows people to express their opinion, and not have to listen to some Self Imposed Dictators, who think they can intimidate others to follow their lead. But that would just be an educated guess at best.

[lucaswallachia]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

The biggest problem with the semen samples is not that they were contaminated (though that is a possible issue) but that, bafflingly, there is no residual sample left for retesting. All that is left is intermediate replicated DNA from an intermediate step in the testing. This replicated DNA cannot be confirmed to have originated with a semen sample, and degrades rapidly unlike the original semen sample. Should the remainder of the semen sample finally be found (or clothes from the victims reappear) professional forensic analysis and an objective investigation could still occur. I do not consider it probable, given the vested interests lobbying against, but it is certainly possible.

Also from this post the Defense Team doesn't seem to have a problem running "Duplicated Samples" so I was surprised, like most, why they refused to run tests on the DNA from Hannah.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/24/uk-thailand-britain-murders-idUKKCN0PY0A820150724

Because the defences job is not to prove they are innocent but to stop them from being prosecuted, so maybe there is something in the DNA from Hannah that links to the accused.

[thailandchilli]

Enough now to show every poster on here that feeding trolls leads to a thread of bickering and eventual closure.

We have enough to do and concentrate on to ensure a fair trial without the need to defend our actions to anyone or without the need to respond to the obvious posters who everyone knows will never listen no matter what is shown and proved.

Only yesterday the thread was in a state of mourning for the victims, lets not forget that again, and lets not forget the persecuted scapegoats in chains

Edited September 16, 2015 by thailandchilli

[BritTim]

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

The biggest problem with the semen samples is not that they were contaminated (though that is a possible issue) but that, bafflingly, there is no residual sample left for retesting. All that is left is intermediate replicated DNA from an intermediate step in the testing. This replicated DNA cannot be confirmed to have originated with a semen sample, and degrades rapidly unlike the original semen sample. Should the remainder of the semen sample finally be found (or clothes from the victims reappear) professional forensic analysis and an objective investigation could still occur. I do not consider it probable, given the vested interests lobbying against, but it is certainly possible.

Also from this post the Defense Team doesn't seem to have a problem running "Duplicated Samples" so I was surprised, like most, why they refused to run tests on the DNA from Hannah.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/24/uk-thailand-britain-murders-idUKKCN0PY0A820150724

Because the defences job is not to prove they are innocent but to stop them from being prosecuted, so maybe there is something in the DNA from Hannah that links to the accused.

At the time of that statement by the defense lawyer, he was still confused about what was really available, and had not spoken to forensic specialists. Once it became clear that original samples for the semen were not being offered (but only replicated DNA of doubtful provenance) under forensic advice, they elected not to trust the RTP gatekeepers of the evidence. IMHO, this was very wise.

[Darkknight666]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

The biggest problem with the semen samples is not that they were contaminated (though that is a possible issue) but that, bafflingly, there is no residual sample left for retesting. All that is left is intermediate replicated DNA from an intermediate step in the testing. This replicated DNA cannot be confirmed to have originated with a semen sample, and degrades rapidly unlike the original semen sample. Should the remainder of the semen sample finally be found (or clothes from the victims reappear) professional forensic analysis and an objective investigation could still occur. I do not consider it probable, given the vested interests lobbying against, but it is certainly possible.

Also from this post the Defense Team doesn't seem to have a problem running "Duplicated Samples" so I was surprised, like most, why they refused to run tests on the DNA from Hannah.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/24/uk-thailand-britain-murders-idUKKCN0PY0A820150724

Because the defences job is not to prove they are innocent but to stop them from being prosecuted, so maybe there is something in the DNA from Hannah that links to the accused.

Bahh, Mediocre! Unless the defense and B2 are completely stupid they would plead guilty if they knew there was evidence against them, They're not pleading guilty..... Does that make any sense to you?

Tell me "Lucas".... Besides the DNA "match" what makes you so confident the Burmese guys committed this crime? I'll tell you who I think commuted the crime, whoever the man seen in the running man video is. Why have they not made the B2 run by that camera same as the other Burmese guy? Because they know the B2 aren't tall enough and have totally different body types. Mon was involved in the crime no two ways about it, he put himself there with his own comments... You think Mon is covering for the B2? I think he's covering for family.

No doubt in my mind their Karma will come back to bite them.

[AleG]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

The job of the defense team is to get the defendants free, not to bring justice to Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, the people that conflate the two things are in the process of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The defense strategy is not to prove the defendants innocent, is to thoroughly discredit the investigation; if the judge rules in their favour all the evidence collected will be useless in a future case, if they name a new suspect/s their lawyer will simply point at the previous ruling and they'll walk away.

[Darkknight666]

And on the DNA, it has no place in court if it's collection and testing isn't fully documented, I don't like that either because I wouldn't trust it to convict the actual killers either, without chain of custody that DNA is nothing, I don't like that, Killers walk free that way.

[Darkknight666]

The RTP's handling of the investigation has almost certainly assured nobody will ever be convicted for what happened on Sairee beach. Now the focus should be in not wasting two more lives to secure the tourist industry and save face for multiple locals who have dirt on their hands, related to the case or otherwise. It's disgusting pure and simple. Nobody I know, well those who haven't already written the place off fully, will ever, ever in a billion years visit an island here.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Darkknight666

[AleG]

Because the defences job is not to prove they are innocent but to stop them from being prosecuted, so maybe there is something in the DNA from Hannah that links to the accused.

At the time of that statement by the defense lawyer, he was still confused about what was really available, and had not spoken to forensic specialists. Once it became clear that original samples for the semen were not being offered (but only replicated DNA of doubtful provenance) under forensic advice, they elected not to trust the RTP gatekeepers of the evidence. IMHO, this was very wise.

I know for a fact that the defense had spoken with at least one forensic specialists from the UK at that point, they were no shy to announce it when they did. As for the semen samples only being available as replicates, that's one of the "everyone knows" factoids that are thrown around without actually verifying them.

[thailandchilli]

While that Washington Post article does contain some mistakes there are important points on there that it brings up again. Of them I think this is just one that could be a key to who was involved.

First, Thai police admitted in court that they never bothered to check CCTV footage of a boat leaving from a nearby pier just an hour after the murder.

“We have the footage, but we never checked it,” Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha admitted in court, drawing gasps from those in attendance, according to Sky News. He said he simply didn’t believe the killer would have taken the boat.

We know this was brought up in court and the defense mentioned a speedboat.

We also know of these reports:

Police have held one man, however, identified as Lerpong Suksomboon, an attendant on a speedboat for tourists between Koh Samui and Koh Tao. He was detained after residents alerted police that he was hiding in a cave on Koh Samui - and came out from time to time and asked for food.

Under influence of drugs

Police on Sunday night questioned Lerpong but he appeared to be under the influence of drugs. He reportedly kept saying he did not beat to death the tourists. Police collected samples of his hair and fingernails for DNA tests at the Institute of Forensic Medicine of Police General Hospital.

Police yesterday took two of his friends into custody; one was also high on drugs and the other, identified as Jom, is the driver of a long-tail boat. Police learnt that they had been on Koh Tao on the day of the murder.

Some fishermen fishing off Kanom district in Nakhon Si Thammarat province alerted police that they found a Thai man on a speedboat named "Little Duck" speeding south from Koh Pha Ngan. The man stopped by and asked for directions to Naiprao Island in the district. But he changed direction to Pakpanang district in the same province after his boat encountered a marine police boat on Naiprao beach. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

Many posters on here have mentioned the use of drugs on KT and above we can see there are some suspects who who were all high on drug, had boats and had been questioned and DNA taken I presume, tested by the ever so credible Police forensics.

Another problem faced that was initiated by the PM was his statement:

"If I rush them [the police] too much, the wrong suspects will be arrested. We're trying to base the probe on scientific evidence as much as we can, and no one will be made a scapegoat. If their DNA does not match, they are not suspects," he told a British reporter. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-footballers-early-risers-sought-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-investigation-1467415

Its pretty obvious that if the RTP "decided" DNA did not match then no further investigation of a suspect took place.

Of course the WORLD knows just how ridiculous such a statement and procedure is and is such an easy get out clause to justify why previous suspects have been cleared. But even if their DNA truely did not match this does not mean they were not involved, in the murders, helping people to get away in their boats or witnesses to the crime.

I believe the speedboat leaving the crime area is going to be brought up again in the next session at some point of the 4 remaining days at trial.

[StealthEnergiser]

It's time for people think seriously about replying to two certain posters and in my opinion one has certainly shown his true colours .

He even questioned another poster by pm when asked to drop the subject yesterday for one day out of respect .

Thats the type of request no one should question.

Respect is a big thing and the kind words yesterday that were expressed by many posters shows there true feelings and emotions.

The posters that have just been here to defend every RTP posts really shows now their agenda is just one sided.

They have no other interest other that getting these threads closed down.

So many posters have been given holidays due to these people simply because that can't sit back and accept the insults the certain RTP defenders are throwing.

This is only my personal opinion, everybody has a right to post but don't let them get to you because going on past history on this thread and others the respectful posters have been given holidays and the RTP defenders remain.

It is time to completely ignore them and keep these threads open they are important .

99.9 percent of posters want the complete truth to come out it appears others don't .

I am sure many times info that has arisen on these threads has been very useful to the case.

Thank you Stealth, that needed to be said. I didn't post yesterday out of respect for David and Hannah and I'm glad I did.

I imagine the Thai pathologist did about as thorough a job as the RTP do, In that case the Brit pathologist may have some DNA from the victims that a private investigator could use upon getting DNA from any suspects. I really want to see them pay, you have no idea. The posters who are defending the case do so out of personal interest on the Island, after reading a few of GB's recent post's he makes it clear he sympathizes with Mon and his family.... Therefor all of his ramblings shouldn't carry much weight with anyone, just let the guy type into space, ignore if you have to. Enough is enough.

These two posters don't seem to have shown any sympathy to the families they just seem to continue to fill up threads with rubbish to deflect the truth from coming out .

[Darkknight666]

@TC

I hope it is! How did the guy in the cave even know about the bodies or how they had been killed? A lucky guess? Maybe the cave had Thai television?

Leave it to American journalists to have inaccuracies as they can't tell the difference between Thailand and Taiwan

At least the post has a story.. So now we have Washinton Post and Time who reported on the story. As soon as the trial is over American media will be all over it. I've written to a Gawker writer I know and she gets no interest from them on this story until after the trial.... I wish the American press were doing more.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Darkknight666

[AleG]

Well I am not sure but maybe because it is an open forum that allows people to express their opinion, and not have to listen to some Self Imposed Dictators, who think they can intimidate others to follow their lead. But that would just be an educated guess at best.

Ironically enough, the people attempting to silence those that disagree with them, through insults, bullying, threats, etc... are the same that are convinced there's a cover up to hide the truth.

[thailandchilli]

It's time for people think seriously about replying to two certain posters and in my opinion one has certainly shown his true colours .

He even questioned another poster by pm when asked to drop the subject yesterday for one day out of respect .

Thats the type of request no one should question.

Respect is a big thing and the kind words yesterday that were expressed by many posters shows there true feelings and emotions.

The posters that have just been here to defend every RTP posts really shows now their agenda is just one sided.

They have no other interest other that getting these threads closed down.

So many posters have been given holidays due to these people simply because that can't sit back and accept the insults the certain RTP defenders are throwing.

This is only my personal opinion, everybody has a right to post but don't let them get to you because going on past history on this thread and others the respectful posters have been given holidays and the RTP defenders remain.

It is time to completely ignore them and keep these threads open they are important .

99.9 percent of posters want the complete truth to come out it appears others don't .

I am sure many times info that has arisen on these threads has been very useful to the case.

Thank you Stealth, that needed to be said. I didn't post yesterday out of respect for David and Hannah and I'm glad I did.

I imagine the Thai pathologist did about as thorough a job as the RTP do, In that case the Brit pathologist may have some DNA from the victims that a private investigator could use upon getting DNA from any suspects. I really want to see them pay, you have no idea. The posters who are defending the case do so out of personal interest on the Island, after reading a few of GB's recent post's he makes it clear he sympathizes with Mon and his family.... Therefor all of his ramblings shouldn't carry much weight with anyone, just let the guy type into space, ignore if you have to. Enough is enough.

These two posters don't seem to have shown any sympathy to the families they just seem to continue to fill up threads with rubbish to deflect the truth from coming out .

They just don't seem to get it do they. How can justice be served for anyone if the investigation was seriously flawed for the outset.

How can anyone be satisfied that justice is now being carried out. Its disgusting to suggest this. Let them carry on in their little worlds and repeat to themselves. I believe the RTP. I believe the RTP. I believe the RTP. yes I do!

[Darkknight666]

It's time for people think seriously about replying to two certain posters and in my opinion one has certainly shown his true colours .

He even questioned another poster by pm when asked to drop the subject yesterday for one day out of respect .

Thats the type of request no one should question.

Respect is a big thing and the kind words yesterday that were expressed by many posters shows there true feelings and emotions.

The posters that have just been here to defend every RTP posts really shows now their agenda is just one sided.

They have no other interest other that getting these threads closed down.

So many posters have been given holidays due to these people simply because that can't sit back and accept the insults the certain RTP defenders are throwing.

This is only my personal opinion, everybody has a right to post but don't let them get to you because going on past history on this thread and others the respectful posters have been given holidays and the RTP defenders remain.

It is time to completely ignore them and keep these threads open they are important .

99.9 percent of posters want the complete truth to come out it appears others don't .

I am sure many times info that has arisen on these threads has been very useful to the case.

Thank you Stealth, that needed to be said. I didn't post yesterday out of respect for David and Hannah and I'm glad I did.

I imagine the Thai pathologist did about as thorough a job as the RTP do, In that case the Brit pathologist may have some DNA from the victims that a private investigator could use upon getting DNA from any suspects. I really want to see them pay, you have no idea. The posters who are defending the case do so out of personal interest on the Island, after reading a few of GB's recent post's he makes it clear he sympathizes with Mon and his family.... Therefor all of his ramblings shouldn't carry much weight with anyone, just let the guy type into space, ignore if you have to. Enough is enough.

These two posters don't seem to have shown any sympathy to the families they just seem to continue to fill up threads with rubbish to deflect the truth from coming out .

Indeed. Though we should focus on the topic and not the posters to keep the mods happy.

I find it best to just not acknowledge them and just respond to the inaccuracies in their post instead.

Thanks for all you've done, Stealth. :0)

[phuketandsee]

Great that the Washington Post piece comes out right before PM goes to the UN so the World can get to know him better. I really hope he gets some questions on it - from a reported wearing a bikini perhaps?

[StealthEnergiser]

Fabrice Burtin ‏@Fabriceburtin 22 hours ago

@Atomicalandy @Saksith it's been a year since the 5 friends that were with them didn't come up to say what happened at the bar that evening

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 21 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin @Saksith how do you know that? They didn't need to tell the world what they know, some things best kept more low key perhaps?

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 19 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin people who didn't come forward are on Koh Tao. Always cite same reason not worth it as 'businesses/families would be at risk'

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 18 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin that includes Thais, migrants (but) also lots of business owning/managing foreigners who said its not in their interests 2 speak

I like this one "how do you know that? They didn't need to tell the world what they know, some things best kept more low key perhaps?"

[thailandchilli]

Fabrice Burtin ‏@Fabriceburtin 22 hours ago

@Atomicalandy @Saksith it's been a year since the 5 friends that were with them didn't come up to say what happened at the bar that evening

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 21 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin @Saksith how do you know that? They didn't need to tell the world what they know, some things best kept more low key perhaps?

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 19 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin people who didn't come forward are on Koh Tao. Always cite same reason not worth it as 'businesses/families would be at risk'

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 18 hours ago

@Fabriceburtin that includes Thais, migrants (but) also lots of business owning/managing foreigners who said its not in their interests 2 speak

I like this one "how do you know that? They didn't need to tell the world what they know, some things best kept more low key perhaps?"

Yes and we know that according to reports there is information from 2 UK witnesses yet to come

[thailandchilli]

Says it all from the PM himself, he knows the RTP very well

"If I rush them [the police] too much, the wrong suspects will be arrested. We're trying to base the probe on scientific evidence as much as we can, and no one will be made a scapegoat. If their DNA does not match, they are not suspects," he told a British reporter. http://www.ibtimes.c...igation-1467415

[stephenterry]

Says it all from the PM himself, he knows the RTP very well

"If I rush them [the police] too much, the wrong suspects will be arrested. We're trying to base the probe on scientific evidence as much as we can, and no one will be made a scapegoat. If their DNA does not match, they are not suspects," he told a British reporter. http://www.ibtimes.c...igation-1467415

I bet he wished he hadn't made that statement now

[DKUNPUTAF713]

I have yet to catch up on reading where I left off at page 36 but

I wanted to get this article from the Washington Post on board so TV

members will appreciate the US is also interested in the Death Island debacle

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/15/rape-murder-and-a-deepening-mystery-on-a-tiny-tropical-island/?postshare=5391442327496335

[GOLDBUGGY]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

The job of the defense team is to get the defendants free, not to bring justice to Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, the people that conflate the two things are in the process of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The defense strategy is not to prove the defendants innocent, is to thoroughly discredit the investigation; if the judge rules in their favour all the evidence collected will be useless in a future case, if they name a new suspect/s their lawyer will simply point at the previous ruling and they'll walk away.

Yeah! That is what I think also AleG.

Here is also some more information about what has been lost as far as DNA Evidence is concerned. The Forensic Experts says from my link that all genetic material tested in the lab was replicated and saved. A poster thought that perhaps at this time they didn't know it was replicated and couldn't trust the RTP at Gatekeepers, but here is what I say about that.

I don't know why the Defense would be confused about this as the Defense have been asking to retest the DNA Samples since last December, including Hannah's DNA. It doesn't make much sense to ask for it for so long when you can't trust the RTP Gatekeepers either. To me this was the reason why they asked for this in the first place, as they didn't trust their results. Is all they wanted was a hoe, which they knew was moved from the crime scene?

I also highly doubt that this good Defensive Team didn't get Forensic Advice from an expert, when they knew well ahead of time that the Star Witness for the Prosecution that day was there Forensic Expert. The only thing they seemed unsure of is what they all wanted to retest.

But what is for certain was that the Defense Team knew right away that these samples were duplicated in a laboratory. From my lInk:

"Nakhon told Reuters, adding that a forensic expert testified that DNA swabs from the crime scene had been duplicated in a laboratory, so samples were still available". "Now we must decide what to re-test.".

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/24/uk-thailand-britain-murders-idUKKCN0PY0A820150724

[CapeThai]

In the meanwhile, despicable influential southern families sleep soundly.

Even the PM is afraid of these people.

Carma will still come around knocking on the front door high up on the hill. This one will not go away soon even if these two innocent are released....

[springheeled jack]

the prosecution say they have dna which matches the accused the dna on the murder weapon does not match the accused what skulduggery is this, the rtp will do their utmost to fit these boys up instead of trying to find the real culprits,nasty.

[thailandchilli]

Says it all from the PM himself, he knows the RTP very well

"If I rush them [the police] too much, the wrong suspects will be arrested. We're trying to base the probe on scientific evidence as much as we can, and no one will be made a scapegoat. If their DNA does not match, they are not suspects," he told a British reporter. http://www.ibtimes.c...igation-1467415

I bet he wished he hadn't made that statement now

I have a feeling we have some posters on here who may be feeling the same way. Truth hurts however especially when it comes directly from the top

[Gweiloman]

The thing about Nomsod - if he was on the island leading up to the murder, he would have been in plain site. We know the pier CCTV footage that morning 'disappeared' but I'm just surprised that there are not more witnesses (apart form one burmese guy)

It is unlikely that a casual tourist would know NS from any other young Thai lad. The only people on KT that knows (and recognises) him would be the locals, expat residents etc.

I would imagine that they would then keep silent for obvious reasons.