Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[BritTim]

Because of the almost non-existent reliable trial reporting, as demanded by PM to protect tourism and police, I find it difficult to understand what's actually happened or been said. What I find curious and worrying is that when the B2 testify, they appear to be cross-examined solely by the defence lawyer(s), with no counter questioning by the prosecution. It seems the prosecution are content with 'the police said it, so we accept it", so we won't cross-examine, and waste the judges' valuable time ie, a guilty verdict has been pre-ordained.

AH's tweets show great emphasis is being placed on the confessions obtained under duress, and the accuseds' lowly immigration status in KT. As expected, the police deny the use of torture/brutality during the interrogation process. Once again, it's a case of 'you say that, but we say this', and without substantive evidence either way, the presiding judge has to make a decision, based on what is often 'hearsay'.

Up to now, the police/prosecution have put forward nothing by way of verifiable evidence to convict the B2, but more disturbing to me is that the defence have had to rely mainly on discrediting the police investigation/evidence/interrogation process, without being able to score a 'whammy' with totally new verifiable evidence to quash the prosecution's case. I only hope now that the contents of the undisclosed UK Autopsy report on Hannah are a 'nightmare' for the trial judge(s), if they've even bothered to read it.

The defense made specific allegations regarding the differences between the UK postmortem report and the Thai one. The UK report has supporting photos, unlike the Thai report. I doubt the judges will attempt to read a report in English of over 400 pages, but I am pretty sure they will look at the photos. In conjunction with the anomalies pointed out by the defense, that should be pretty effective.

[JoopJoop]

TAT thailand would be fully aware of this case I am surprised tourists coming to Thailand have not been asking questions on TAT Facebook pages like what are they doing about tourists safety on the islands ?

Mate, I've spoken with perhaps 70-80 people of diverse nationalities on and around Khao San Rd.

+/- 70% were not aware of the murders even though they were planning a trip south to the islands.

25% were aware having followed their respective countries media but were not aware of the extent of incompetence, non transparency, and miscarriage of justice.

Only 3 people were acutely aware but get this; they still plan to visit an island in the south but they said it won't be Koh Tao.

I was lost for words.

For the other poster;

"Clean up time RTP your acts and stories are old news. we are all on to you. Do you know you have detroyed your countrys economy in the process"

Tourism makes up about 6-7% of the economy. The Thai elite don't care.

Honestly mate, they couldn't give a rats arse and if you think all your time and effort critically analyzing information and sharing your thoughts on this forum, you'd actually make make a bit of difference? I'm afraid I'm highly doubtful.

Yes, I come across as pessimistic, but this case is sure to vanish into the wind and the real perps will never be found.

It's the way of life in this country where all can be bought. It's an absolute tragedy.

Edited October 11, 2015 by JoopJoop

[catsanddogs]

According to a poster on Andy Hall's facebook, Heidi Anna, who has been in court every day during the Koh Tao hearings, there has been several changes of judges:

26 December 2014 - 3 judges

30 April 2015 - 1 judge from 26 December hearing, plus 2 new ones

8 July 2015 - "2nd chair" judge from 30 April hearing becomes lead judge, plus 2 new ones

8 July until 25 September 2015 - Same three judges

10 October 2015 - Same lead judge from 8 July hearing, plus 2 new ones in 2nd and 3rd chair.

I don't think this can be explained by an "annual reshuffle". Where is the continuity?

This is not wonderful. However, the lead judge has been the same throughout the trial. My impression is that the other two judges are just glorified assistants and not important to the eventual verdict. The lead judge will have been the one who allowed the trial to progress without a long delay by forgoing a weekend (very unusual in the Thai court system). Call me naive but, on this count, I am not overly concerned.

IslandLover's post reads to me that the lead judge was changed on 8th July.

[BritTim]

According to a poster on Andy Hall's facebook, Heidi Anna, who has been in court every day during the Koh Tao hearings, there has been several changes of judges:

26 December 2014 - 3 judges

30 April 2015 - 1 judge from 26 December hearing, plus 2 new ones

8 July 2015 - "2nd chair" judge from 30 April hearing becomes lead judge, plus 2 new ones

8 July until 25 September 2015 - Same three judges

10 October 2015 - Same lead judge from 8 July hearing, plus 2 new ones in 2nd and 3rd chair.

I don't think this can be explained by an "annual reshuffle". Where is the continuity?

This is not wonderful. However, the lead judge has been the same throughout the trial. My impression is that the other two judges are just glorified assistants and not important to the eventual verdict. The lead judge will have been the one who allowed the trial to progress without a long delay by forgoing a weekend (very unusual in the Thai court system). Call me naive but, on this count, I am not overly concerned.

IslandLover's post reads to me that the lead judge was changed on 8th July.

Sure ... July 8 was when the trial proper, with witness testimony, started. There was nothing substantive before then, only some legal maneuvering.

[catsanddogs]

Because of the almost non-existent reliable trial reporting, as demanded by PM to protect tourism and police, I find it difficult to understand what's actually happened or been said. What I find curious and worrying is that when the B2 testify, they appear to be cross-examined solely by the defence lawyer(s), with no counter questioning by the prosecution. It seems the prosecution are content with 'the police said it, so we accept it", so we won't cross-examine, and waste the judges' valuable time ie, a guilty verdict has been pre-ordained.

AH's tweets show great emphasis is being placed on the confessions obtained under duress, and the accuseds' lowly immigration status in KT. As expected, the police deny the use of torture/brutality during the interrogation process. Once again, it's a case of 'you say that, but we say this', and without substantive evidence either way, the presiding judge has to make a decision, based on what is often 'hearsay'.

Up to now, the police/prosecution have put forward nothing by way of verifiable evidence to convict the B2, but more disturbing to me is that the defence have had to rely mainly on discrediting the police investigation/evidence/interrogation process, without being able to score a 'whammy' with totally new verifiable evidence to quash the prosecution's case. I only hope now that the contents of the undisclosed UK Autopsy report on Hannah are a 'nightmare' for the trial judge(s), if they've even bothered to read it.

Agree. Nothing coming out of court that we have heard of relating to the morning of the murders and the B2's movements. Nothing about whether they were on a motorbike and what happened to it, nothing about what they saw when the took the guitar to the AC bar. Nothing about how close to the murder scene they were when they went swimming - whether they saw anyone else around on the beach or in the sea. Nothing about whether they saw or joined in with the westerners who were reported to have been playing and singing on the beach. Nothing about the alleged phone of David's that was in their possession. Nothing about Maung Maung. It just feels wrong to me and seems like the trial is about the alleged torture of the B2 rather than whether they are innocent or guilty of the murders. Depressing.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[connda]

Was there actually any evidence against these 2 in the trial? Apart from the fact they were on the beach that night?

They also drank beer, smoked, played guitar, and rode a motorcycle. Thus far, undisputed.

Disputed:

• Once upon a time, the RTP had semen samples taken from Hannah. DNA from the semen samples matched DNA from the Burmese. The semen samples are now "used up" and cannot be directly retested.
• The Burmese freely confessed to the crimes and demonstrated what they did in a reenactment. Strangely enough, the confessions and reenactments do not tally with what little physical evidence was made available to the court. The Burmese subsequently withdrew their confessions, saying they were extracted under torture and threats.

That is about it.

I wonder if they use the test of "beyond a reasonable doubt" when assessing guilt or innocence here in The Land Of Smiles. For some reason, I don't think so. I think the test of 'political expediency' and the test of 'social status and power' have much more sway when it comes of assessing to convict or not to convict.

Personally, I think they are patsies. I could be wrong, but perceived behavior of the police here in Thailand is not good. Too many accounts of misconduct during interrogation from too many diverse sources. How many time have you heard or read about the police, speaking only Thai and broken English, demanding that a foreign suspect sign a document written in Thai and refusing to translate the document, and then the suspect finds out he/she has signed a confession. Unfortunately for the Thai judicial system, testimony and evidence provided by the police is perceived by the foreign community to be universally questionable.

They need to 'clean house'.

[arfurcrown]

connda post # 1724.

They need to 'clean house'.

I think even the mighty Hercules may well hesitate at performing such a task as the one you describe !!

[glenmohr]

There was a time in my life Joop (twice) I would have agreed with you.

To my great shame, neither I nor my small country joined any of the small voices in protest at the evils of Apartheid in South Africa nor the imprisonment of Nelson Mandela. Like you, I did not think the small voices made any difference, History proved me wrong.

You may submit that the B2 do not have the charisma of a Nelson Mandela, that statement by itself is true.

However I watched the recent debate in the EU parliament in which I have never seen such a sustained attack on any country as speaker after speaker launched into criticism of the lack of human rights in Thailand. Most notably, the name Andy Hall came up regularly. Not only from the Brits but other European nationalities as well. Andy Hall's crusade against and subsequent persecution by Natural Fruits in Thailand has led to him to becoming a cult figure outside Thailand. A ,man with a now highly internationalised profile. His attention is now directed at getting a fair deal for the B2, he needs our support and that support may put more gas in his generous tank.

Like the designers of apartheid who tried to ignore World opinion the current leaders of Thailand cannot ignore the international concepts of justice and human rights forever. The shout is becoming too audible and we all make a difference!

I support Andy Hall in his untiring efforts against oppression and injustice.

[off road pat]

There have been allegations that this kind of deal is quite common in the Thai legal process.

To "protect" an important person or for general "harmony" a third party is persuaded on way or another to take the blame for a crime. They are told that they will face a minimal sentence and treated well in prison, their family will be looked after and they will come out the other end financially better of.

Te result being the reputation of "VIPs" is left intact, and the status quo remains and some poor people are eventually better off.

"the status quo remains and some poor people are eventually better off." ,....?...I don't think so, Once those people confessed and got into the system, there is nothing that will make that so called important person to keep his word of taking care of the family of the defendant....

[catsanddogs]

His friend, Wei Phyo said he had also been punched, repeatedly, by police officers when he refused to acknowledge that he was the person recorded running away from the murder scene on CCTV.

“The police asked if that was me in the picture and I said no. I was wearing a black top and long trousers that night, as seen in earlier CCTV footage, and the person they were pointing wasn’t me and was wearing white shorts,” said Wei Phyo. “But when I denied it they punched me. They asked me again and again and I repeated again and again that it was not me on the CCTV but they punched me every time until I had to confess to stop it.”

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/men_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claim_they_were_threatened_with_a_grisly_death_if_they_didn_t_confess_1_4266487

[JLCrab]

There was a time in my life Joop (twice) I would have agreed with you.

To my great shame, neither I nor my small country joined any of the small voices in protest at the evils of Apartheid in South Africa nor the imprisonment of Nelson Mandela. Like you, I did not think the small voices made any difference, History proved me wrong.

You may submit that the B2 do not have the charisma of a Nelson Mandela, that statement by itself is true.

However I watched the recent debate in the EU parliament in which I have never seen such a sustained attack on any country as speaker after speaker launched into criticism of the lack of human rights in Thailand. Most notably, the name Andy Hall came up regularly. Not only from the Brits but other European nationalities as well. Andy Hall's crusade against and subsequent persecution by Natural Fruits in Thailand has led to him to becoming a cult figure outside Thailand. A ,man with a now highly internationalised profile. His attention is now directed at getting a fair deal for the B2, he needs our support and that support may put more gas in his generous tank.

Like the designers of apartheid who tried to ignore World opinion the current leaders of Thailand cannot ignore the international concepts of justice and human rights forever. The shout is becoming too audible and we all make a difference!

I support Andy Hall in his untiring efforts against oppression and injustice.

The original EU Parliament motion for a resolution on Human Rights in Thailand prominently mentioned Mr. Andy hall as in:

M. whereas Mr Hall’s two criminal cases have been allowed to continue through the Thai juridical system despite the fact that workers’ rights violations committed by the company were partly confirmed by the Thai Ministry of Labour as well as a company employee during previous court hearings ...

The final non-binding resolution on Thailand made no mention of Mr. Hall as in:

Thailand

Parliament expresses its concerns at the "deteriorating human rights situation in Thailand following the illegal coup of May 2014" and urges the Thai authorities to lift repressive restrictions on the right to liberty and the peaceful exercise of other human rights. It calls on the Thai authorities to overturn convictions and sentences, to withdraw charges and to release individuals and media operators who have been sentenced or charged for peacefully exercising their rights to freedom of expression or assembly

Parliament also calls for the abolition of the death penalty and asks the European External Action Service and the EU Delegation to use all available instruments to ensure respect for human rights and the rule of law in Thailand, in particular by continuing to observe investigations and trial hearings of opposition leaders.

The non-binding resolution was adopted by 581 votes to 35, with 35 abstentions.

Edited October 11, 2015 by JLCrab

[BritTim]

You remember the story about stolen clothes? I am guessing it never happened, and that this only comes from the confessions. The RTP wanted Wei Phyo to be the running man, but were aware of the clothing discrepancy. Thus, they wanted an explanation for a change of clothing. Does anyone have a link that disproves my suspicions?

[StealthEnergiser]

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy/status/653118890629730304

[glenmohr]

There was a time in my life Joop (twice) I would have agreed with you.

To my great shame, neither I nor my small country joined any of the small voices in protest at the evils of Apartheid in South Africa nor the imprisonment of Nelson Mandela. Like you, I did not think the small voices made any difference, History proved me wrong.

You may submit that the B2 do not have the charisma of a Nelson Mandela, that statement by itself is true.

However I watched the recent debate in the EU parliament in which I have never seen such a sustained attack on any country as speaker after speaker launched into criticism of the lack of human rights in Thailand. Most notably, the name Andy Hall came up regularly. Not only from the Brits but other European nationalities as well. Andy Hall's crusade against and subsequent persecution by Natural Fruits in Thailand has led to him to becoming a cult figure outside Thailand. A ,man with a now highly internationalised profile. His attention is now directed at getting a fair deal for the B2, he needs our support and that support may put more gas in his generous tank.

Like the designers of apartheid who tried to ignore World opinion the current leaders of Thailand cannot ignore the international concepts of justice and human rights forever. The shout is becoming too audible and we all make a difference!

I support Andy Hall in his untiring efforts against oppression and injustice.

The original EU Parliament motion for a resolution on Human Rights in Thailand prominently mentioned Mr. Andy hall as in:

M. whereas Mr Hall’s two criminal cases have been allowed to continue through the Thai juridical system despite the fact that workers’ rights violations committed by the company were partly confirmed by the Thai Ministry of Labour as well as a company employee during previous court hearings ...

The final non-binding resolution on Thailand made no mention of Mr. Hall as in:

Thailand

Parliament expresses its concerns at the "deteriorating human rights situation in Thailand following the illegal coup of May 2014" and urges the Thai authorities to lift repressive restrictions on the right to liberty and the peaceful exercise of other human rights. It calls on the Thai authorities to overturn convictions and sentences, to withdraw charges and to release individuals and media operators who have been sentenced or charged for peacefully exercising their rights to freedom of expression or assembly

The non-binding resolution was adopted by 581 votes to 35, with 35 abstentions.

My reference to the EU debate was to the oral part where Mr Hall's name was regularly mentioned orally byat least British, Irish, Polish and German MEPs. The resolutions you refer to came after the debate when the vote was taken.

My point is that the B2 are unlucky to be charged but lucky in that their mentor Mr Andy Hall is such a well known public figure outside of Thailand.

[bander]

smedly, on 10 Oct 2015 - 23:50, said:smedly, on 10 Oct 2015 - 23:50, said:

Darkknight666, on 10 Oct 2015 - 13:18, said:Darkknight666, on 10 Oct 2015 - 13:18, said:

New Judges, eh? Maybe that's a good sign! I know, I know.... Foolish thinking.

we have already experienced people being removed from this case, I don't think this is either right or proper and speaks very loud to me, can you imagine 2/3 of a jury being replaced near the end of a trial, if I was defence council I would be calling a halt to the proceedings on the grounds of extreme .......................................extreme something because this is just more B.....S, does Thailand actually have laws - do they actually have a judicial process ? they should be ashamed of themselves - Prayuth Chan (O) Cha - something else that needs your urgent attention

According to a poster on Andy Hall's facebook, Heidi Anna, who has been in court every day during the Koh Tao hearings, there has been several changes of judges:

26 December 2014 - 3 judges

30 April 2015 - 1 judge from 26 December hearing, plus 2 new ones

8 July 2015 - "2nd chair" judge from 30 April hearing becomes lead judge, plus 2 new ones

8 July until 25 September 2015 - Same three judges

10 October 2015 - Same lead judge from 8 July hearing, plus 2 new ones in 2nd and 3rd chair.

I don't think this can be explained by an "annual reshuffle". Where is the continuity?

Furthermore, Heidi Anna also says that the 2 accused were not given anything to eat during the long hours they spent in court yesterday. The hearing started in the morning (9:00am I believe) with Zaw Lin's testimony and didn't finish until 10:30pm. Wai Phyo only started to give his testimony at 8:00pm and the trial was halted at 10:30pm due to the late hour. He will resume his testimony this morning. That's an awful long time to go without food.

Sounds like a lot of judges getting rich from this trial and I bet the village chief have some huge withdraws from his bank account lately.

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@Arthuristheboy there are not two new judges. Is misunderstanding. One judge rotated in annual shuffle, other judge returned today as normal

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@BlighBKK @Arthuristheboy there is written (n.b. but not verbatim) documentation/recording of all court proceedings and witness testimonies

[JLCrab]

That's how the EU Parliament works especially when its actions are non-binding as I'm aware from other non-related circumstances

[BritTim]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@Arthuristheboy there are not two new judges. Is misunderstanding. One judge rotated in annual shuffle, other judge returned today as normal

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@BlighBKK @Arthuristheboy there is written (n.b. but not verbatim) documentation/recording of all court proceedings and witness testimonies

Good about the written record. Who can ask for a copy? When can they ask for a copy? How much does it cost?

[fritzzz25]

In the "normal" world, judges are "seized" with a case the minute there is evidence led. In 2 more centuries, the system may catch up .......

[berybert]

New Judges, eh? Maybe that's a good sign! I know, I know.... Foolish thinking.

we have already experienced people being removed from this case, I don't think this is either right or proper and speaks very loud to me, can you imagine 2/3 of a jury being replaced near the end of a trial, if I was defence council I would be calling a halt to the proceedings on the grounds of extreme .......................................extreme something because this is just more B.....S, does Thailand actually have laws - do they actually have a judicial process ? they should be ashamed of themselves - Prayuth Chan (O) Cha - something else that needs your urgent attention

Smedly, Andy Hall Tweeted:-

I understand 1 judge rotated in annual reshuffle by 30th Sept & been replaced, another judge busy today but back 2mrw

But I agree their judicial process (as with every procedural process involved here), is a unmitigated shambles for a country who (deludedly) ,would like to pretend to the rest of the world that they are following some sort of strict protocol. Shameful is no longer a strong enough word!

This would be funny if not so serious. Being a judge I would imagine is a pretty serious job. What was this man doing yesterday that was so important that he wasn't able to get into work ?

Maybe he had a gig as a DJ at a bar on Koh Tao, perhaps Saturday is shopping day, a game of golf might have been already booked and he didn't want to let his mates down.

Thailand is a shambles and it seems to have no quarms with letting the rest of the world know just how bad it can be with every chance it gets.

[skinnymat]

Can't get my head round the fact that if I had been accused of a similar crime to the B2 then I would be kicking and screaming my innocence at every given chance and trying to disprove everything that the RTP are trying to say, yet in my opinion the defence only seem to be going down the route of saying the confessions were given under duress and torture and don't seem to be getting to the facts of the case.

That's Just my opinion.

Let hope that justice is done and whoever did this gets the sentence they deserve.

[AleG]

Maybe I am wrong but this does bring up an important part of Thai law. No juries in courts. The Magna Carta was probably one of the most important developments in law in the west. What became the West, Western culture, the cohesion of the most successful of recent civlisations.

All this resting on the decision of one man? Not a good feeling.

Juries consisting of 12 good people, are essential in law. So essential Western countries are now trying to phase them out and defying their own constitutional basis. Trust the judge. No thanks.

Juries are also able to change laws. Jury nullification is an important part of Magna Carta.

I cannot believe these guys have been treated fairly. Is that going to improve?

All members of TV should be excluded from any jury service, due to the inability to follow a topic, jumping to a verdict after reading a headline, inventing stories, dissemination of inaccurate information, going way off topic and general unreasonable prejudice.

There are too many people jumping to conclusions with little regard to the quality of the information they have. I'd hazard the guess that most of what people know (or think they know) to declare the two men are innocent is either information that has been released by the defense team, Internet rumors or the result of a very confused and haphazard reporting on the case; for example an article posted here some days ago outright claimed that the DNA testing on the hoe used on the murders proved the two men are innocent, while the actual results was that, besides the DNA from the two victims there was a third, partial DNA result that matched 25% of the DNA markers on one of the suspects, the person presenting the results clearly said that the results neither proved nor ruled out the DNA could be from one of the men on trial... but that's too nuanced for a headline I guess.

The thing is the judge will make a ruling on all the information presented in court, not just what the defense thought advantageous to release to the public to gain support; and in the case of a guilty ruling the people who believe they are innocent will have to either realize that they didn't have all the information necessary to make a judgement or blame everything on some vague conspiracy to frame those two men.

Judging from what's going on here seem that the second option seems to be the most popular one.

[sambum]

Disturbing situation indeed, especially the lack of action being taken by my so called 'elected government' here in the UK. I really am starting to despair of them, and unfortunately, It makes me feel quite ashamed and powerless to make any change over here.

A number of people (myself included) who saw the gruesome pictures of poor David and Hannah have commented that they can never 'unsee' those images, but on reflection, I do not want to forget what I have seen. The brutal, disgusting, degradation and violence inflicted on these poor youngsters is shocking and gruesome, and the way that these politicians (on both sides) want to sweep it all under the carpet is absolutely abhorrent. My only hope is that sometime in the future, they find a conscience, and that those images haunt them night and day for the rest of their miserable lives. I want all of them to remember till the day they die - the images that they have all obviously witnessed.

In the meantime keep up the good fight doing all we can to help expose the plight of the two 'sacrificial lambs', unfortunately now all we can do is pray for the dead, but we can fight like hell for the living without any further loss of innocent lives. Find the balance and KEEP SAFE!

You know, most of those with the power to apply pressure are very unlikely to have seen the images. I doubt the site bestgore.com is part of Cameron's regular reading matter, and no media organization will dare show them. I personally (and I know I am in a minority here) believe people should be exposed to reality. If people knew what the effects of war and of impunity in committing crimes really meant, there would be fewer wars and a greater commitment to justice. The beginning of the end of the Vietnam War was the publishing of that iconic photo of the young girl splashed with napalm. If the UK and Thai public had seen those crime scene photos, there would be a lot less apathy in this case.

I agree with you. However you might be surprised how many Thais have seen the photos. They really go for that.

Yes, in a land where bare boobs are considered "obscene" (yet part of their art/culture) and the sight of someone smoking a cigarette on television or film is considered "unacceptable", looking at the horrific aftermaths of bombs, road crashes, murders etc seems to be perfectly normal behaviour. .

[stephenterry]

Maybe I am wrong but this does bring up an important part of Thai law. No juries in courts. The Magna Carta was probably one of the most important developments in law in the west. What became the West, Western culture, the cohesion of the most successful of recent civlisations.

All this resting on the decision of one man? Not a good feeling.

Juries consisting of 12 good people, are essential in law. So essential Western countries are now trying to phase them out and defying their own constitutional basis. Trust the judge. No thanks.

Juries are also able to change laws. Jury nullification is an important part of Magna Carta.

I cannot believe these guys have been treated fairly. Is that going to improve?

All members of TV should be excluded from any jury service, due to the inability to follow a topic, jumping to a verdict after reading a headline, inventing stories, dissemination of inaccurate information, going way off topic and general unreasonable prejudice.

There are too many people jumping to conclusions with little regard to the quality of the information they have. I'd hazard the guess that most of what people know (or think they know) to declare the two men are innocent is either information that has been released by the defense team, Internet rumors or the result of a very confused and haphazard reporting on the case; for example an article posted here some days ago outright claimed that the DNA testing on the hoe used on the murders proved the two men are innocent, while the actual results was that, besides the DNA from the two victims there was a third, partial DNA result that matched 25% of the DNA markers on one of the suspects, the person presenting the results clearly said that the results neither proved nor ruled out the DNA could be from one of the men on trial... but that's too nuanced for a headline I guess.

The thing is the judge will make a ruling on all the information presented in court, not just what the defense thought advantageous to release to the public to gain support; and in the case of a guilty ruling the people who believe they are innocent will have to either realize that they didn't have all the information necessary to make a judgement or blame everything on some vague conspiracy to frame those two men.

Judging from what's going on here seem that the second option seems to be the most popular one.[/quote

Another troll post. Why don't you troll elsewhere. Nothing you say is factual

[Linky]

There are too many people jumping to conclusions with little regard to the quality of the information they have. I'd hazard the guess......

Does anyone see the irony, the hypocracy here?

[berybert]

Would you really trust 12 people from Koh Tao or anywhere close to there to give a proper verdict ?
Any one who looked like they were leaning towards a non guilty verdict would go missing never to be seen again.

Sadly or gladly the system in place gives the Burmese more of a chance (when law and justice becomes chance is there any point to it) of justice than a jury could.

[HUH]

There are too many people jumping to conclusions with little regard to the quality of the information they have. I'd hazard the guess......

Does anyone see the irony, the hypocracy here?

He should have told that to the prosecutors witnesses

[AleG]

Another troll post. Why don't you troll elsewhere. Nothing you say is factual

Nothing factual?

"Mr Waiyawuth said a quarter of the indicators from one of the suspects matched the partial profile but that did not mean he could be included as a suspect.

DNA experts agree that DNA profiling demands a 99.9999% accurate match."

I didn't find the article that cited the cross examination questions by the prosecution, although I had quoted it in a previous post of mine:

"The prosecution asked Mr Waiyawuth if the third, incomplete, profile could belong to one of the suspects. He replied that only a quarter of the indicators from one of the suspects matched the partial profile.

The prosecution said: “So his participation cannot be ruled out.”

Mr Waiyawith replied: “No, but he cannot be included either.”"

A partial match doesn't provide positive proof that the DNA recovered and that of suspect are the same person, it also means that such a result can't be used to support the claim that it proves the suspect is not the source of the DNA.

[berybert]

Another troll post. Why don't you troll elsewhere. Nothing you say is factual

Nothing factual?

"Mr Waiyawuth said a quarter of the indicators from one of the suspects matched the partial profile but that did not mean he could be included as a suspect.

DNA experts agree that DNA profiling demands a 99.9999% accurate match."

I didn't find the article that cited the cross examination questions by the prosecution, although I had quoted it in a previous post of mine:

"The prosecution asked Mr Waiyawuth if the third, incomplete, profile could belong to one of the suspects. He replied that only a quarter of the indicators from one of the suspects matched the partial profile.

The prosecution said: “So his participation cannot be ruled out.”

Mr Waiyawith replied: “No, but he cannot be included either.”"

A partial match doesn't provide positive proof that the DNA recovered and that of suspect are the same person, it also means that such a result can't be used to support the claim that it proves the suspect is not the source of the DNA.

There you go stephenterry, AleG have now given you proof that there is no evidence that the DNA on the hoe belongs to the suspects.

Bty didn't Mon have a 70% match ? But we know he had nothing to do with the crime because he said so.