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Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA


webfact

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I find this worrying. Says he admitted to finding a phone on the beach on the 'night' of the murders - am assuming this should read on the 'morning' of the murders. the B2 said they went to bed between 1am and 2am (i think). It has been reported that the murders took place sometime around 4.30am - of course this could be quite wrong. But my concern is did Wei Phyo find the phone after the murders and if so then surely he would have seen something relating to the crime also, or did he find the phone before the murders on the beach? And we still don't know if the damn phone actually belonged to David Miller. How difficult can it be for heavens sake to find out whose phone it was? Somethings not right.

IIRC the last time Miller and Witheridge were seen was after the time the defendants claim to had been back at their place.

The phone is exactly the same model as the one taken from one of the victims, since it was smashed the only way to find out who it belonged to was to, as far as I know, compare the SIM serial number with records from the UK; officially the UK won't provide any information since it's a case involving the death penalty, unofficially a UK embassy official said it is David Miller's phone, according to a witness during the hearing. Whether the judge will accept that as proof of provenance is up to him.

The defense on the other hand made it clear that they were very much against the UK helping in any way on the matter; that is why I've said many times that the people that want to see the crimes solved and want the defense to win should consider the possibility that they are holding mutually exclusive positions.

In any case, as I mentioned, the phone is identical to Miller's; what are the chances of that phone disappearing from the victim, an identical one being found by the suspects (supposedly after they were back to their room? On top of that they (the defendants) themselves said they thought it could be linked to the murders, apparently the day after the crime. Now then... how did they know there was a phone missing from the victim back then? Let alone knowing what brand and model it was.

People that have been saying these men are innocent of any involvement in the crime should try to put things in perspective and be honest with themselves, if the same circumstances were related to any of the other suspects in the alternate theories, would they dismiss all of this out of hand?

I believe that your beloved RTP failed to prove any claim that the phone belonged to David. The photos of the phone shown by the RTP seem to show two completely different phones altogether but, assuming that you are referring to the iPhone shown "smashed" in some of the photos the RTP could actually afford to keep in evidence (much more important, apparently, than Hanna's clothing, blood pools on the beach or the other murder weapon(s) they earlier claim were used), how many iPhones do you think were present on that island the days of the murder and before? There are hundreds of millions of these things in circulation and your are factually wrong in your tripe about the SIM serial number. Much more relevant would be the IMEI of the phone.

What is truly confusing me, however is why, given the fact that the RTP didn't find the phone compelling enough to go to any lengths to prove its provenance in the court, why you fell so strongly compelled to do so?

Might it have anything to do with the fact that the mainstays of your beloved fabrication have fallen apart? I am talking about the reenactment, the DNA on the hoe, the apparent lack of the rale and the inability of the RTP to either provide any original DNA semen samples, original crime scene photos, intelligence or the shocking refusal to provide chain of custody for their so-called DNA evidence?

Your dead horse must be wondering what it did so wrong to deserve all these continued beatings! Laughable!! cheesy.gifcheesy.gifcheesy.gifcheesy.gifcheesy.gif

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Because of the almost non-existent reliable trial reporting, as demanded by PM to protect tourism and police, I find it difficult to understand what's actually happened or been said. What I find curious and worrying is that when the B2 testify, they appear to be cross-examined solely by the defence lawyer(s), with no counter questioning by the prosecution. It seems the prosecution are content with 'the police said it, so we accept it", so we won't cross-examine, and waste the judges' valuable time ie, a guilty verdict has been pre-ordained.

AH's tweets show great emphasis is being placed on the confessions obtained under duress, and the accuseds' lowly immigration status in KT. As expected, the police deny the use of torture/brutality during the interrogation process. Once again, it's a case of 'you say that, but we say this', and without substantive evidence either way, the presiding judge has to make a decision, based on what is often 'hearsay'.

Up to now, the police/prosecution have put forward nothing by way of verifiable evidence to convict the B2, but more disturbing to me is that the defence have had to rely mainly on discrediting the police investigation/evidence/interrogation process, without being able to score a 'whammy' with totally new verifiable evidence to quash the prosecution's case. I only hope now that the contents of the undisclosed UK Autopsy report on Hannah are a 'nightmare' for the trial judge(s), if they've even bothered to read it.

Agree. Nothing coming out of court that we have heard of relating to the morning of the murders and the B2's movements. Nothing about whether they were on a motorbike and what happened to it, nothing about what they saw when the took the guitar to the AC bar. Nothing about how close to the murder scene they were when they went swimming - whether they saw anyone else around on the beach or in the sea. Nothing about whether they saw or joined in with the westerners who were reported to have been playing and singing on the beach. Nothing about the alleged phone of David's that was in their possession. Nothing about Maung Maung. It just feels wrong to me and seems like the trial is about the alleged torture of the B2 rather than whether they are innocent or guilty of the murders. Depressing.

You're right, both of you and most of the rest of us. The list of things which were not mentioned (as far as we know) during the trial is long. It shows how completely inept Thai investigators are. It's hard to decide which items to put top of the list, because there are so many glaring omissions: Here's a partial list:

>>> Barely any mention of David's wounds. No mention of the same-size stab wounds. No mention of what sort of weapon could have caused those wounds.

>>> Not looking closely at clothes at the crime scene. Losing some clothing.

>>> Not looking at any blood on the sand (there was lots!)

>>> No mention of phone records or boats leaving

>>> Very little CCTV. Most cameras weren't functioning, though a cop said he looked at 60 hours and found nothing. No looking at CCTV of boats leaving just after the crime. Has that CCTV been trashed? It wouldn't surprise anyone.

>>> no mention of what transpired in AC and other beach party bars prior to crime

>>> no mention of Sean or the 2 French girls who heard commotion from the crime scene. The only mention of NS was saying there was a phone call from his phone sometime that morning (no specs)

>>> barely any mention of the crucial 'Running Man' video. It's like the entire prosecution case purposefully disregarded the most glaring clues.

>>> No following up on Mon who is the primary key to solving the crime.

>>> zero mention of Mon's tough guys buddies who are the most likely perps.

....and this list doesn't even mention the skewed and missing DNA trail....

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Iphone

unable to link the post but if you google "Police all at sea in island murder probe"

there is a report of women’s bags, a camera, an iPhone and money were stolen the night before at the same spot.

That brings up the BP but its over the 60 period so need a premium membership to read, is it referring to the muggings that took place the night before at the same spot?

yes that's correct

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Sexual abuse now too?

Catchy headline, not supported by anything in the article though. Again the same thing... facepalm.gif

"The next day we heard about the murders and we were worried it might be related to someone involved in the murders. My friend smashed up the phone and threw it into the undergrowth behind our hut."

Well, that at least should definitely put to rest the accusations that the police planted the phone. Although I wouldn't hold my breath.

As an alibi though, it leaves a lot to be desired.

AleG, in your opinion were the B2 interviews and the confessions done lawfully and fairly (no legal representaion, no professional translator, documents signed in Thai, interviews in a 'safe house' with no recording, multiple reports of torture by the burmese community...) ?

But you won't answer the main question and again focus on a headline biased according to you... it doesnt matter if the abuse was sexual, I actually think that the death threats are more shocking than the sexual abuse, they have been threatened to be fed to the fish... but you will probably say the B2 lied and everything was done properly... and we don't have the right information.

We can see you don't appreciate media scrutiny and say it always comes from the defense team, but if the case were solid, there wouldn't be so many questions in the media and the prosecution wouldnt be so silent...

But I agree there is something fishy about the phone, unfortunately we are not sure this is David's phone, but it is strange for sure that they found the phone the night they were out, before the murders actually took place.

It is so frustrating to think that we will probably never know for sure wht happened that night and we largely have to thank the investigators for that.

I and many others won't set a foot in this part of the country for sure...

I know the police said it was done properly, and I know the defendants said it was anything but. I wasn't there so in my opinion what went down was something in between those two things.

As I said many times before even if they were put through the rack it doesn't have any bearing on the objective reality of whether they are innocent or guilty. I don't expect the judges to use the confessions to the police as evidence against them, although I think he may want to consider the confessions given to other parties (the Human Rights Commission representative, Myanmar officials, a doctor and apparently a cell mate) and so in my opinion, If they were mistreated (tortured as they claim) then that is a separate case to be dealt with.

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broken iPhone now confirmed as belonging to David Miller , this info passed to the prosecution by the Miller family

Where did this info come from ?

And when? Link please chetzee.

you may be able to get the interview in full from Skynews later in the day , but not there at present . the info was passed within the last hours or so

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The Phone AleG..for the last time..unless can be shown belong To David has no bearing on this case..there's many ways to narrow or indeed prove that it was David's but in everyday the RTP have failed to remotely link it to David. The RTP say it was David's phone.

the phone now confirmed to be davids

How would they know what phone was being confirmed with the police or did they just confirm David's phone serial number which was from the good phone .

Im think forensics should have examined these phones also it's to hard to believe the word of the police involved in this case.

Edited by StealthEnergiser
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Sexual abuse now too?

Catchy headline, not supported by anything in the article though. Again the same thing... facepalm.gif

"The next day we heard about the murders and we were worried it might be related to someone involved in the murders. My friend smashed up the phone and threw it into the undergrowth behind our hut."

Well, that at least should definitely put to rest the accusations that the police planted the phone. Although I wouldn't hold my breath.

As an alibi though, it leaves a lot to be desired.

AleG, in your opinion were the B2 interviews and the confessions done lawfully and fairly (no legal representaion, no professional translator, documents signed in Thai, interviews in a 'safe house' with no recording, multiple reports of torture by the burmese community...) ?

But you won't answer the main question and again focus on a headline biased according to you... it doesnt matter if the abuse was sexual, I actually think that the death threats are more shocking than the sexual abuse, they have been threatened to be fed to the fish... but you will probably say the B2 lied and everything was done properly... and we don't have the right information.

We can see you don't appreciate media scrutiny and say it always comes from the defense team, but if the case were solid, there wouldn't be so many questions in the media and the prosecution wouldnt be so silent...

But I agree there is something fishy about the phone, unfortunately we are not sure this is David's phone, but it is strange for sure that they found the phone the night they were out, before the murders actually took place.

It is so frustrating to think that we will probably never know for sure wht happened that night and we largely have to thank the investigators for that.

I and many others won't set a foot in this part of the country for sure...

I know the police said it was done properly, and I know the defendants said it was anything but. I wasn't there so in my opinion what went down was something in between those two things.

As I said many times before even if they were put through the rack it doesn't have any bearing on the objective reality of whether they are innocent or guilty. I don't expect the judges to use the confessions to the police as evidence against them, although I think he may want to consider the confessions given to other parties (the Human Rights Commission representative, Myanmar officials, a doctor and apparently a cell mate) and so in my opinion, If they were mistreated (tortured as they claim) then that is a separate case to be dealt with.

I asked over an hour ago but you selectively chose not to reply to mine or some other posts. Nevertheless, I'll try again:

For all our sakes, would you kindly do us a mighty favour and detail what is, in your opinion, evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt (or that even circumstantially points to the B2's guilt) that the B2 are guilty of the rape and murder of Hannah and David?

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The Phone AleG..for the last time..unless can be shown belong To David has no bearing on this case..there's many ways to narrow or indeed prove that it was David's but in everyday the RTP have failed to remotely link it to David. The RTP say it was David's phone.

the phone now confirmed to be davids

How would they know what phone was being confirmed with the police or did they just confirm David's phone serial number which was from the good phone .

Im think forensics should have examined these phones also it's to hard to believe the word of the police involved in this case.

the police are not involved in the divulging of this info ..... it is info obtained by the Miller family , from the phone provider in the UK , and then given to the prosecution . And we are talking about the broken phone found at the back of the defendants lodgings

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broken iPhone now confirmed as belonging to David Miller , this info passed to the prosecution by the Miller family

Where did this info come from ?

And when? Link please chetzee.

you may be able to get the interview in full from Skynews later in the day , but not there at present . the info was passed within the last hours or so

I just saw the Skynews report and it was one of the worst pieces of reporting ive ever witnessed.

The journalist who i've not seen before, said that the families just want them found guilty so they can move on in their lives ... i kid you not.

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Protect Thais at all costs and let them get away with murder

....particularly well-connected and rich Thais. The type of Thais who have no problem with paying big money for big favors. It takes two to tango.

This has spiraled out of control and now Prayuth must step in and admit wrong doing by the RTP

In fact the lead investigator RTP must take the punishment for allowing forced confessions and his cronies to operate there own Thai justice.

He should be removed and fired

It's akin to the PM and the former and current heads of the Police (all 3 men) firing themselves. It would be great, but highly unlikely.

These 2 acquited and sent home

....with compensation of 2 million baht each, and Bt.100,000/month for life, paid out of Nomsod's piggy bank.

Indeed, it's not unheard of, in a darker part of Thailand's history, for a guilty VIP to pay a poor person to do the VIP's time in prison. And establishment condone it.

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The Phone AleG..for the last time..unless can be shown belong To David has no bearing on this case..there's many ways to narrow or indeed prove that it was David's but in everyday the RTP have failed to remotely link it to David. The RTP say it was David's phone.

the phone now confirmed to be davids

How would they know what phone was being confirmed with the police or did they just confirm David's phone serial number which was from the good phone .

Im think forensics should have examined these phones also it's to hard to believe the word of the police involved in this case.

the police are not involved in the divulging of this info ..... it is info obtained by the Miller family , from the phone provider in the UK , and then given to the prosecution . And we are talking about the broken phone found at the back of the defendants lodgings

are sure your not talking about this sky news today ?

The prosecution has told the trial that a mobile phone was found smashed near Wei Phyo's lodgings, with a prosecution witness saying the British Embassy had confirmed it belonged to Mr Miller.

http://news.sky.com/story/1567511/brit-killings-accused-says-police-abused-me

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The Phone AleG..for the last time..unless can be shown belong To David has no bearing on this case..there's many ways to narrow or indeed prove that it was David's but in everyday the RTP have failed to remotely link it to David. The RTP say it was David's phone.

the phone now confirmed to be davids

How would they know what phone was being confirmed with the police or did they just confirm David's phone serial number which was from the good phone .

Im think forensics should have examined these phones also it's to hard to believe the word of the police involved in this case.

the police are not involved in the divulging of this info ..... it is info obtained by the Miller family , from the phone provider in the UK , and then given to the prosecution . And we are talking about the broken phone found at the back of the defendants lodgings

are sure your not talking about this sky news today ?

The prosecution has told the trial that a mobile phone was found smashed near Wei Phyo's lodgings, with a prosecution witness saying the British Embassy had confirmed it belonged to Mr Miller.

http://news.sky.com/story/1567511/brit-killings-accused-says-police-abused-me

Wait for Andy to give details about this as i just saw much of the Sky news reporters interview and it was appalling, claiming the families just want these people found guilty o they can move on with their lives.

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FFarrangg

Absolute rubbish , the Sky news report said nothing of the sort !!!! I KID you not . It was live and full of info , the most important of which was the disclosure about the Phone

at no point did it say the Miller family wanted a conviction at any cost !!!

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The Phone AleG..for the last time..unless can be shown belong To David has no bearing on this case..there's many ways to narrow or indeed prove that it was David's but in everyday the RTP have failed to remotely link it to David. The RTP say it was David's phone.

the phone now confirmed to be davids

How would they know what phone was being confirmed with the police or did they just confirm David's phone serial number which was from the good phone .

Im think forensics should have examined these phones also it's to hard to believe the word of the police involved in this case.

the police are not involved in the divulging of this info ..... it is info obtained by the Miller family , from the phone provider in the UK , and then given to the prosecution . And we are talking about the broken phone found at the back of the defendants lodgings

are sure your not talking about this sky news today ?

The prosecution has told the trial that a mobile phone was found smashed near Wei Phyo's lodgings, with a prosecution witness saying the British Embassy had confirmed it belonged to Mr Miller.

http://news.sky.com/story/1567511/brit-killings-accused-says-police-abused-me

No , not talking about that . it was a live report from outside the court in Samui

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FFarrangg

Absolute rubbish , the Sky news report said nothing of the sort !!!! I KID you not . It was live and full of info , the most important of which was the disclosure about the Phone

at no point did it say the Miller family wanted a conviction at any cost !!!

OK wait and until it is online and i will be shown to be 100% correct. But if you could read coherently you would see i said the journalist said the families just want a conviction, i did not say the Miller family said it themselves ... to repeat so you understand i am saying this is what the journalist said.

Your just another of the trolls who claim they did it so you do like denying facts even when broadcast on national television.

Edited by ffaarraanngg
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broken iPhone now confirmed as belonging to David Miller , this info passed to the prosecution by the Miller family

Where did this info come from ?

And when? Link please chetzee.

you may be able to get the interview in full from Skynews later in the day , but not there at present . the info was passed within the last hours or so

Thanks.

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There are many of you posters who seem to think that Aleg's opinion is of the utmost importance and you hang off his every word.

You're as bad as he is for destroying these threads ... pathetic.

Right. Please guys ignore the trolls and give the mods some time to breath - as well as keeping this thread open.

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Sexual abuse now too?

Catchy headline, not supported by anything in the article though. Again the same thing... facepalm.gif

"The next day we heard about the murders and we were worried it might be related to someone involved in the murders. My friend smashed up the phone and threw it into the undergrowth behind our hut."

Well, that at least should definitely put to rest the accusations that the police planted the phone. Although I wouldn't hold my breath.

As an alibi though, it leaves a lot to be desired.

Oh I see, so you do actually believe the article despite discrediting it in your first sentence............oh the irony facepalm.gif

The defendants have said that same thing since at least December, that they just happened to find the phone on that night. In spite of that, and in spite of me pointing out that fact many, many times, some people have repeatedly dismissed the phone as being evidence on the basis that they claimed the police planted it.

So yes, I believe it when they say they had it since the night of the murders because, if anything, in their own self interests they would deny any connection to it; therefore if they don't it means the fact is undeniable.

That's how to read the news, check the sources and mind the biases.

And from the same sources the B2 stated very clearly in that same article that they were tortured into confessing. Thats the thing with torture, it produces results but not necessarily the truth. The re enactment is Thailands way of confirming their confessions and perhaps adding any further details. That backfired when it was clear the B2 were being lead throughout the staged spectacle.

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FFarrangg

Absolute rubbish , the Sky news report said nothing of the sort !!!! I KID you not . It was live and full of info , the most important of which was the disclosure about the Phone

at no point did it say the Miller family wanted a conviction at any cost !!!

OK wait and until it is online and i will be shown to be 100% correct. But if you could read coherently you would see i said the journalist said the families just want a conviction, i did not say the Miller family said it themselves ... to repeat so you understand i am saying this is what the journalist said.

Your just another of the trolls who claim they did it so you do like denying facts even when broadcast on national television.

try not to embarrass yourself here . you have no idea where i stand on this , but let me state now it is the polar opposite of Ali and his cohorts

Your just another of the trolls who claim they did it so you do like denying facts even when broadcast on national television. PMSL !!!!

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Brit Murders: Accused Says Police Abused Me

Defendant Wei Phyo claims police threatened to chop off his arms and legs, throw his body into the sea to feed the fish.

One of the men accused of murdering two British tourists on the Thai island of Koh Tao last year has accused Thai police of sexual, physical and psychological abuse.

http://news.sky.com/story/1567511/thai-beach-murder-accused-police-abused-me

From that article -

Wei Phyo admitted during his testimony to finding a phone on the beach on the night the two British holidaymakers were killed. He said he took it home but couldn't unlock it.

He told the court: "The next day we heard about the murders and we were worried it might be related to someone involved in the murders. My friend smashed up the phone and threw it into the undergrowth behind our hut."

I find this worrying. Says he admitted to finding a phone on the beach on the 'night' of the murders - am assuming this should read on the 'morning' of the murders. the B2 said they went to bed between 1am and 2am (i think). It has been reported that the murders took place sometime around 4.30am - of course this could be quite wrong. But my concern is did Wei Phyo find the phone after the murders and if so then surely he would have seen something relating to the crime also, or did he find the phone before the murders on the beach? And we still don't know if the damn phone actually belonged to David Miller. How difficult can it be for heavens sake to find out whose phone it was? Somethings not right.

is this testimony he have in court today or are they quoting something from an earlier time - like when they were being tortured ? it the latter then it is just part of the confession or quotes from RTP and are of little value, if said in court then "as you say" it does raise a few serious questions, you don't find phones lying around too often, but then again ownership of the phone had not been established

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There are many of you posters who seem to think that Aleg's opinion is of the utmost importance and you hang off his every word.

You're as bad as he is for destroying these threads ... pathetic.

On the contrary. The majority of posters knows that his posts and opinions are complete and utter BS. However, some are so blatantly false and inaccurate that any decent minded poster cannot but feel disgusted and therefore feel compelled to rebut and to try and paint the true picture instead.

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Would you really trust 12 people from Koh Tao or anywhere close to there to give a proper verdict ?

Any one who looked like they were leaning towards a non guilty verdict would go missing never to be seen again.

Sadly or gladly the system in place gives the Burmese more of a chance (when law and justice becomes chance is there any point to it) of justice than a jury could.

Your implications are that, "the" ordinary people of this country do not know the difference between right and wrong. Juries are chosen from a wide spectrum of those available. Children, even babies and even dogs know the difference. My experience here is that the "people", at least in the area that I live are the best to judge their fellow men and women. The jury system was designed to return power to the people. The lords judge the lords and the people judge each other. I have not found a lack of intelligence in this country, or morals. It is certainly different from where I come from, but not in this regard.

Putting your trust in one man has been proven time and again a dangerous route.

The legal system is very flawed here and this is a major part of it.

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I have no doubt the police are in possesion of Davids phone and have the IMEI number of that phone and could very well have had the IMEI checked with the carrier in the UK through the family.

- If this is the same phone that was found behind B2's lodgings then they are in deep s--t because the phone would likely have been obtained after the crimes were committed

- If it is the same phone shown to Davids friend in the YT video then it can't be the one found behind the lodgings as this was way before B2 were arrested

If there was a mugging the previous night at the same spot then it is possible the phone at the lodgings is connected to this, B2 may even have been involved in the mugging but don't want to admit to that, who knows

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I was sexually abused by Thai police” - Witheridge accused tells court

13:35 11 October 2015

Sarah Yuen, in Thailand

One of the Burmese men accused of murdering Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge has told a Thai court that he “was sexually abused by Thai police”.

Wei Phyo, a 22 year-old migrant worker from Myanmar, has told a panel of three judges investigating the deaths of Ms Witheridge and fellow British tourist David Miller from Jersey, that police stripped him naked in a freezing room and flicked his genitalia hard to make him confess. He explained he was handcuffed at the time and tried to protect himself from the abuse but could not.

Wei Phyo said he was also kicked, punched and slapped repeatedly and threatened with dismemberment, electrocution, and a burial at sea before he finally confessed.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/i_was_sexually_abused_by_thai_police_witheridge_accused_tells_court_1_4266818

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Mon needs to have his dna taken again. British have dna of the victims. Then we would see some light.

Fersure, as well as NS, and their tough-guy buddies, including cop friends. It won't happen now, but there's a slight chance the RTP will be forced to do what's right in the future, and actually make efforts to try to find who really did the crime. Do the Brits actually have DNA from Hannah? It's hard to tell, because no one appears to be telling the truth.

as for phone purportedly found at B2's shack: It's not a key element to the trial. It may prove that one of them was a thief. Remember, RTP first claimed it was Hannah's phone, then changed it to 'David's phone' when social media (so dreaded by AleG and RTP) proved them wrong. It's good to hear what AleG posts, because it gives an idea of what Thai officialdom and judges are likely thinking. They're all going bend over backwards (and do double back flips if needed) to try and nail the scapegoats.

Hundreds of clues either overlooked or discarded by Thai officials. Here are some reasons why so much evidence wasn't mentioned in the trial:

>>> RTP didn't think to consider them.

>>> RTP did give them a thought, but didn't think they were significant (like CCTV of boats leaving after the crime, or questioning the fast boat driver)

>>> RTP investigated but realized it implicated the people they're sworn to shield, so they squelched, hid or trashed it,

>>> if it didn't implicate the B2, RTP wasn't interested

.....that's why RTP has essentially nothing to incriminate the B2. RTP royally botched their frame-up. Sad for all involved, except maybe the real perps who have 18 yrs and 11 months until the Statute of Limitations makes them officially untouchable for the murders. And still many moons will go by - for the appeals process. Meanwhile, the scapegoats are spending the flower of their youth unfairly locked up.

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