Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[stephenterry]

With koh tao there are killers roaming. That's indisputable. Other parts of Thailand is maybe

[lucky11]

YOU are talking about Koh Tao being a dangerous place to visit. I am simply comparing the dangers of going to Koh Tao as to visiting the US.

It is a fair comparison to make - put it this way, where would you feel safer, walking around or drinking in a bar in Koh Tao or in the heart of gangster territory in the Bronx?

The dangers are not comparable. If I was a pretty young female I would heed the UK advice and avoid koh tao because of the dangers of rape and murder. I also wouldn't go anywhere near a gangster environment in case I got caught in the crossfire. On balance I would avoid both.

How many people can you name that have been murdered or raped in Koh Tao.

All of my research came up with 2 people murdered and 1 rape.

Koh Tao now, is one of the safest Thai Islands you could go to.

Edited October 14, 2015 by lucky11

[HUH]

YOU are talking about Koh Tao being a dangerous place to visit. I am simply comparing the dangers of going to Koh Tao as to visiting the US.

It is a fair comparison to make - put it this way, where would you feel safer, walking around or drinking in a bar in Koh Tao or in the heart of gangster territory in the Bronx?

The dangers are not comparable. If I was a pretty young female I would heed the UK advice and avoid koh tao because of the dangers of rape and murder. I also wouldn't go anywhere near a gangster environment in case I got caught in the crossfire. On balance I would avoid both.

How many people can you name that have been murdered or raped in Koh Tao.

Why not ask the UK government who issued the warning, perhaps they have some info they can share with you.

[lucky11]

YOU are talking about Koh Tao being a dangerous place to visit. I am simply comparing the dangers of going to Koh Tao as to visiting the US.

It is a fair comparison to make - put it this way, where would you feel safer, walking around or drinking in a bar in Koh Tao or in the heart of gangster territory in the Bronx?

The dangers are not comparable. If I was a pretty young female I would heed the UK advice and avoid koh tao because of the dangers of rape and murder. I also wouldn't go anywhere near a gangster environment in case I got caught in the crossfire. On balance I would avoid both.

How many people can you name that have been murdered or raped in Koh Tao.

Why not ask the UK government who issued the warning, perhaps they have some info they can share with you.

Couldn't find any then .

Governments always overreact and give duff advice in instances like this.

[happy Joe]

Pardon? I honestly do not know what point you are trying to make!

" unworthy confusion of serene justice"

"And this faith shows real conviction of British investigators that they are bound by reserve duty."

"Appointment for the verdict so and let continue the great specialists their carousel of speculations."

Sorry but in my world we appreciate the parables Oops! (Images, pictures) to describe an Ubuesque situations (Excuse me! ludicrous, farcical).

And it is true that English is not my native language but I ask you showing (demonstrate?) a little empathy to understand my point. This is a great exercise to maintain your neurons (Brain ?) that I try to practice every day.

[AleG]

The dangers are not comparable. If I was a pretty young female I would heed the UK advice and avoid koh tao because of the dangers of rape and murder. I also wouldn't go anywhere near a gangster environment in case I got caught in the crossfire. On balance I would avoid both.

How many people can you name that have been murdered or raped in Koh Tao.

All of my research came up with 2 people murdered and 1 rape.

Koh Tao now, is one of the safest Thai Islands you could go to.

As far as I know the murders in Koh Tao were the first time tourists were murdered there in over 10 years.

Yet stephenterry seems to believe that Pattaya is safer than that... the mind boggles.

[lucky11]

The dangers are not comparable. If I was a pretty young female I would heed the UK advice and avoid koh tao because of the dangers of rape and murder. I also wouldn't go anywhere near a gangster environment in case I got caught in the crossfire. On balance I would avoid both.

How many people can you name that have been murdered or raped in Koh Tao.

All of my research came up with 2 people murdered and 1 rape.

Koh Tao now, is one of the safest Thai Islands you could go to.

As far as I know the murders in Koh Tao were the first time tourists were murdered there in over 10 years.

Yet stephenterry seems to believe that Pattaya is safer than that... the mind boggles.

The silence is deafening!!

Can we conclude that Koh Tao is not a dangerous place at all and has an extremely low crime rate then? Nobody so far has been able to prove this otherwise.

[joebrown]

The dangers are not comparable. If I was a pretty young female I would heed the UK advice and avoid koh tao because of the dangers of rape and murder. I also wouldn't go anywhere near a gangster environment in case I got caught in the crossfire. On balance I would avoid both.

How many people can you name that have been murdered or raped in Koh Tao.

All of my research came up with 2 people murdered and 1 rape.

Koh Tao now, is one of the safest Thai Islands you could go to.

As far as I know the murders in Koh Tao were the first time tourists were murdered there in over 10 years.

Yet stephenterry seems to believe that Pattaya is safer than that... the mind boggles.

The silence is deafening!!

Can we conclude that Koh Tao is not a dangerous place at all and has an extremely low crime rate then? Nobody so far has been able to prove this otherwise.

I might be tempted to agree with you if you could explain why Mon instructed the gardener to replace the blood stained hoe to the alleged murder scene. How did Mon know that the hoe was a weapon used in the murder of Hannah. From what I recall from the gardener's evidence he had placed the hoe under some plastic bags away from the murder scene. How was Mon in a position to determine the importance of the hoe before the gardener moved it? I feel sure you can easily answer this question, as you have no doubt about the B2's exclusive involvement. in the crimes.

Edited October 14, 2015 by joebrown

[HUH]

Why not ask the UK government who issued the warning, perhaps they have some info they can share with you.

Couldn't find any then .

Governments always overreact and give duff advice in instances like this.

Seeing as you need some feeding take a look at this one http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

Then head here and read through ensuring you visit all the links that are given to further articles http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

Then tell me if you think the UK FCO is still over reacting, if so then send them a complaint

Edited October 14, 2015 by HUH

[boomerangutang]

The fact is the prosecution presented DNA evidence that points to their guilt,

You may be the only person on the planet who believes the DNA hearsay mentioned by the RTP is valid. Even the police themselves admit it's flawed. They said some was lost and some was 'used up'. The hair was lost, so were pieces of Hannah's clothing which were photographed at the crime scene. Later in the trial, when the defense requested a minimum of DNA trail verification, RTP couldn't even come up with a chit of paper.

the fact is the defense didn't seek a court order to get the chain of custody and case notes from the police, the fact is they declined having the DNA retested

Wrong again. See my post above and multiply by 10. The defense didn't want the DNA re-tested under the auspices of RTP. Who would? .....except people who are shielding the real criminals.

... and the fact is Dr. Pornthips testimony (the only substantial thing the defense has thrown against the prosecution case) doesn't actually invalidate the results of the DNA analysis.

Ms Pontip proved that Thai forensics completely missed DNA on hoe handle. RTP missed blood on the sand and completely missed testing any clothing. They missed David's stab wounds. What else did they miss? The mind reels.

The fact is the defendants were near the scene of the crime at that time,

Can you count to 1 ? Only one defendant mentioned being on the beach near the time (4 am) of the crime. The crime took place around 4:30 to 5 am. (3rd and final Running Man CCTV was 4:58 am, if my recollection is not mistaken)

Edited October 14, 2015 by boomerangutang

[lucky11]

Sorry, don't understand your answer and fail to see the relevance of it.

[glenmohr]

The dangers are not comparable. If I was a pretty young female I would heed the UK advice and avoid koh tao because of the dangers of rape and murder. I also wouldn't go anywhere near a gangster environment in case I got caught in the crossfire. On balance I would avoid both.

How many people can you name that have been murdered or raped in Koh Tao.

All of my research came up with 2 people murdered and 1 rape.

Koh Tao now, is one of the safest Thai Islands you could go to.

As far as I know the murders in Koh Tao were the first time tourists were murdered there in over 10 years.

Yet stephenterry seems to believe that Pattaya is safer than that... the mind boggles.

The silence is deafening!!

Can we conclude that Koh Tao is not a dangerous place at all and has an extremely low crime rate then? Nobody so far has been able to prove this otherwise.

Nick Pearson New Years Day 2015,

Frenchman known as Dimitri, same date 2015.

Hannah Witheridge September 2014,

David Miller same date 2014

By my mathematics that is one a month on an island with a population of a few thousand unlike New York which has a few millions

Of course Lucky will say these are not murders, just accidents !!

[joebrown]

Sorry, don't understand your answer and fail to see the relevance of it.

Sorry, are you replying to my post above, or merely deflecting , as usual.

[lucky11]

Why not ask the UK government who issued the warning, perhaps they have some info they can share with you.

Couldn't find any then .

Governments always overreact and give duff advice in instances like this.

Seeing as you need some feeding take a look at this one http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

Then head here and read through ensuring you visit all the links that are given to further articles http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

Then tell me if you think the UK FCO is still over reacting, if so then send them a complaint

So, one other tourist was autopsied (IN THE UK) and found to have drowned which doesn't constitute murder. All of the other examples are Thai's with internal family disputes and a crazed taxi driver.

[HUH]

Sorry, don't understand your answer and fail to see the relevance of it.

Bit of advice, when replying make it relevant to the post your referring to, try the quote function

[canuckamuck]

Only in Thailand can a guy (not a policeman) walk into a crime scene (supposedly for the first time) have a look around and say. "Hey where's that murder weapon? Anybody seen a hoe with some blood on it? What's it doing over there? Bring it over here and put it under this tree like it is supposed to be! " And no one gets suspicious.

[lucky11]

Sorry, don't understand your answer and fail to see the relevance of it.

Sorry, are you replying to my post above, or merely deflecting , as usual.

Replying to your post #2465.

[lucky11]

Sorry, don't understand your answer and fail to see the relevance of it.

Bit of advice, when replying make it relevant to the post your referring to, try the quote function

It wouldn't allow me to as there was too many 'blocks' and I have referenced the post (2465).

[joebrown]

Sorry, don't understand your answer and fail to see the relevance of it.

I assume from the absence of your reply to my post #2465 you don't have a credible answer. Fair enough and duly noted.

[lucky11]

Nick Pearson drowned apparently but the Frenchman (Dmitri) does seem suspicious, I admit, but little seems to be known as to what really happened.

Referring to Glenmohr's post made on Oct 14th 19:39.

[glenmohr]

Nick Pearson drowned apparently but the Frenchman (Dmitri) does seem suspicious, I admit, but little seems to be known as to what really happened.

Referring to Glenmohr's post made on Oct 14th 19:39.

"Apparently" Nick Pearson had never previously been rock climbing in the middle of the night. Understandably and quite naturally, he fell over a cliff. In a badly injured state he dragged his painful body quite some distance to the same pool of water that David Miller drowned himself in. Now we ask ourselves, why would a badly injured man from UK go to a lot of trouble and pain to drown himself in the same pool of water that David Miller, his fellow countryman drowned himself in. Why did he not choose a more convenient stretch of water? To my way of thinking it all smells a bit fishy? Why would an otherwise sensible person go rock climbing alone at midnight in a strange country? I am suspicious.

Some people say we expats do not understand Thailand, but I think we do understand Thailand.

[HUH]

The silence is deafening!!

Can we conclude that Koh Tao is not a dangerous place at all and has an extremely low crime rate then? Nobody so far has been able to prove this otherwise.

Nick Pearson New Years Day 2015,

Frenchman known as Dimitri, same date 2015.

Hannah Witheridge September 2014,

David Miller same date 2014

By my mathematics that is one a month on an island with a population of a few thousand unlike New York which has a few millions

Of course Lucky will say these are not murders, just accidents !!

Also 22nd Jan 2015 Christina Annesley who died at the "In touch Resort" Run by Mon who was also the first on the scene along with the cleaner.

The autopsy said she died of natural causes, drugs found in her body. Its notable that the autopsy was carried out, yep in Bangkok Police forensic dept same place that carried out the Autopsys of Hannah and David. Also worth mentioning that Christine went to the same University as David

Edited October 14, 2015 by HUH

[CharlieH]

Warnings have been issued previously, discuss the topic not the poster, and yet some persist. In doing so its "off topic" to say nothing of being "personal" and in most cases inflammatory.

Those posts have been removed as have some of the responses to them. Some of the participants will soon find that they are no longer able to participate.

Suspensions will now follow.

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[stephenterry]

The silence is deafening!!

Can we conclude that Koh Tao is not a dangerous place at all and has an extremely low crime rate then? Nobody so far has been able to prove this otherwise.

Nick Pearson New Years Day 2015,

Frenchman known as Dimitri, same date 2015.

Hannah Witheridge September 2014,

David Miller same date 2014

By my mathematics that is one a month on an island with a population of a few thousand unlike New York which has a few millions

Of course Lucky will say these are not murders, just accidents !!

Also 22nd Jan 2015 Christina Annesley who died at the "In touch Resort" Run by Mon who was also the first on the scene along with the cleaner.

The autopsy said she died of natural causes, drugs found in her body. Its notable that the autopsy was carried out, yep in Bangkok Police forensic dept same place that carried out the Autopsys of Hannah and David. Also worth mentioning that Christine went to the same University as David

I don't believe in coincidence. She was murdered.

[AleG]

The silence is deafening!!

Can we conclude that Koh Tao is not a dangerous place at all and has an extremely low crime rate then? Nobody so far has been able to prove this otherwise.

Nick Pearson New Years Day 2015,

Frenchman known as Dimitri, same date 2015.

Hannah Witheridge September 2014,

David Miller same date 2014

By my mathematics that is one a month on an island with a population of a few thousand unlike New York which has a few millions

Of course Lucky will say these are not murders, just accidents !!

Also 22nd Jan 2015 Christina Annesley who died at the "In touch Resort" Run by Mon who was also the first on the scene along with the cleaner.

The autopsy said she died of natural causes, drugs found in her body. Its notable that the autopsy was carried out, yep in Bangkok Police forensic dept same place that carried out the Autopsys of Hannah and David. Also worth mentioning that Christine went to the same University as David

Nick Pearsons died in New Years Eve 2013/2014; there's nothing to indicate his cause of death as not being falling off a cliff when walking out at night while very drunk; the UK coroner found nothing indicating foul play:

"Home Office pathologist Dr Michael Biggs said Nick had 237 mg of alcohol in his body. The UK legal limit for driving is 80 mgs.

He said: “There were some bruises on his face. He could have fell, bumped, or been assaulted. From a pathologist’s point of view, his injuries are not from an assault but I can’t rule it out.”"

Dimitri Pavse left behind a suicide note in French, his family accepts it was a suicide, a friend of his posted here in TV that he had been depressed and it was indeed suicide.

Christina Annesley died of a combination of illness and drugs:

"Her mother added: "She had a chest infection making her feel quite low. She took some antibiotics and had gone to the chemist to get some medicine.

"I spoke to her on the Saturday, and she was fine and happy. She said she wanted to make more friends out there."

One of her last tweets said she had spent £60 on antibiotics and could not go out with her new friends.

Christina died on the same island British tourists Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, were murdered last year.

But Mrs Annesley ruled out foul play."

Her mother has already put her to rest after suffering extra anguish thanks to the conspiracy theorist that desperately wanted to make her death part of their detective games; it's unconscionable how she and the other people are being used like propaganda props.

Edited October 14, 2015 by AleG

[HUH]

The silence is deafening!!

Can we conclude that Koh Tao is not a dangerous place at all and has an extremely low crime rate then? Nobody so far has been able to prove this otherwise.

Nick Pearson New Years Day 2015,

Frenchman known as Dimitri, same date 2015.

Hannah Witheridge September 2014,

David Miller same date 2014

By my mathematics that is one a month on an island with a population of a few thousand unlike New York which has a few millions

Of course Lucky will say these are not murders, just accidents !!

Also 22nd Jan 2015 Christina Annesley who died at the "In touch Resort" Run by Mon who was also the first on the scene along with the cleaner.

The autopsy said she died of natural causes, drugs found in her body. Its notable that the autopsy was carried out, yep in Bangkok Police forensic dept same place that carried out the Autopsys of Hannah and David. Also worth mentioning that Christine went to the same University as David

Nick Pearsons died in New Years Eve 2013/2014; there's nothing to indicate his cause of death as not being falling off a cliff when walking out at night while very drunk; the UK coroner found nothing indicating foul play:

"Home Office pathologist Dr Michael Biggs said Nick had 237 mg of alcohol in his body. The UK legal limit for driving is 80 mgs.

He said: “There were some bruises on his face. He could have fell, bumped, or been assaulted. From a pathologist’s point of view, his injuries are not from an assault but I can’t rule it out.”"

Dimitri Pavse left behind a suicide note in French, his family accepts it was a suicide, a friend of his posted here in TV that he had been depressed and it was indeed suicide.

Christina Annesley died of a combination of illness and drugs:

"Her mother added: "She had a chest infection making her feel quite low. She took some antibiotics and had gone to the chemist to get some medicine.

"I spoke to her on the Saturday, and she was fine and happy. She said she wanted to make more friends out there."

One of her last tweets said she had spent £60 on antibiotics and could not go out with her new friends.

Christina died on the same island British tourists Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, were murdered last year.

But Mrs Annesley ruled out foul play."

Her mother has already put her to rest after suffering extra anguish thanks to the conspiracy theorist that desperately wanted to make her death part of their detective games; it's unconscionable how she and the other people are being used like propaganda props.

Thanks for all the information which I was aware of, there is also lots more out there I could add to it but thats been discussed by other posters in the relevant threads. However I will add that the mother of Christina would in my opinion be very interested to learn that the autopsy was carried out as the same place as the current victims as we (not you) are aware of the significant contradictions being made by the UK coroner and the Thai Coroner.

As for the propaganda, thanks for your contribution

[mookem]

I have friends live in koh tao. Their say burma boys no kill the farang

[RWA]

I still find this old post (by webfact, on 19 Sept 2014 - 11:35) interesting:

Night crime simulation at Sairee beach to look for clues



KOH TAO: -- Thai police conducted a two-hour crime simulation at the scene before dawn Friday where the two British tourists were killed to look into the exact time of the crime and wrap up evidence to support their earlier investigations for analysing who is or are real murderers.

The simulation started 1.00 a.m. Friday, almost the same time when the police suspected Ms Hannah Witheridge was raped and killed.

The crime simulation was supervised by Pol Gen Charumporn Suramanee, advisor to the Royal Thai Police commissioner.

The police believed the victim was raped because DNA examination revealed semen found inside the victims vagina were mixed, indicating more than one person was involved.

The DNA of the semen matched the cigarette butts the police found and collected from a log on the beach, about 50 metres from where her body lying dead.

Police said they have a witness telling them that three men, who were believed to be Myanmar workers, played guitars on the beach near the scene.

The police simulated the victim walking out of a beach restaurant and she might be followed by murderer to the log where cigarettes were found.

The police calculated the time spent and distances in order to compare with the Asian looking man captured on the CCTV video footage passing the camera back and forth. The man did not wear shirt.

The police also were sceptical about the blood stained hoe used in battering the two tourists to death.

A police officer said normally a criminal would throw away any weapon used in the murder to destroy evidence. But in this case, they were astonished when the hoe was not thrown away, just lied near the log and covered with a sack.

The murderer struck the victims with the hoe and then put it back to hide at the place, which was very unusual, an officer said.

This indicated that the murderer was a cold blooded person, he said.

The officer said now several hundreds of local and central police are combing the entire island looking for the Asian man on CCTV as he is now the most suspected person.

However another source said the police still did not rule out friends of one of the victims.

He cited the blood-soaked clothes found inside the luggage of Christopher Ware. Although he had been cleared that the blood was from cut while lighting firework but this was unusual.

Forensic police said wound from fireworks could not have produced so much blood on the clothes.

But the clothes the police seized from his room was soaked with blood which could not be caused by fireworks wound.

Both Christopher and his brother James have been released into the custody of the British embassy and returned home on a flight last night.

The police will meet this afternoon in Koh Tao to wrap up all findings and set the same direction in the probe.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/night-crime-simulation-sairee-beach-look-clues/


-- Thai PBS 2014-09-19

So the cigarettes match the sperm.

WHAT SPERM?!

Where is it came from?

[GAZZPA]

The only evidence the prosecution have linking the defendants to the rape charge is the police statements asserting that they found the defendants' DNA inside the rape victim. There is no evidence whatsoever that links the defendants to the murders. The prosecution's case must be that whoever committed the rape must have committed the murders as well - not necessarily the case but the best argument they can come with, since they were unable or unwilling to provide any forensic evidence specifically relating to the mirders and failed to even submit a murder weapon in David's case or explain how his wounds were caused.

So the most crucial evidence relies only on police say so. They refused to allow independent testing of this evidence, giving unconvincing excuses, and then refused to even provide documentation relating to chain of custody and the DNA match, apparently out of terror that an Australian expert was in Samui ready to testify on their documentation which they presumably didn't think likely to withstand scrutiny by a foreign professional. Hannah's clothes and other vital pieces of forensic evidence were deliberately withheld by police who also refused to allow the defense access to crime scene photographs giving an excuse that was obviously a lie. It also seems that evidence from Norwich coroner casts serious doubt on the police that Hannah was raped which would remove the central plank from the police and prosecution case completely.

Despite all of these setbacks the prosecution remains under considerable pressure to win its trumped up case in the 'national interests'. To show their bosses they are still making their KPIs, they pull one more stunt using help from their buddies in the British police and FCO. The latter cannot be seen to be helping directly again as they are in enough trouble for aiding and abetting a notoriously corrupt foreign police force in a death penalty case. But with covert help from British police and the FCO It proves easy enough to manipulate the distraught family of one of the victims again and the Thai Embassy in London is used for cover. It sounds spectacular in the sensationalist headlines but actually all they have is another piece of circumstantial evidence that we'll have been falsified anyway. It is obvious from the deeply suspicious timing that the prosecution had no intention of allowing any independent analysis of this evidence or allow the defence to comment on it.

"Buddies in the British Police Force"? What are you talking about? I am not aware of there being any "buddy" relationship with the British Police. I can certainly say with confidence that the British Police are not corrupt, you cannot bribe them, they will investigate crimes and if evidence is there it will be presented.

Also, the fore sic lab sent evidence to the courts stating that Hannah was not raped, that hardly helps the cause of the Proesection and Thai Police. I know the British Police did not send this but I hope you are not suggesting that the forensic lab is honest and the British Police are not.

For the other points I agree with you completely. I do think it is very likely the 2 accused are innocent from what I have seen and read. But I am suspicious about this mobile phone and I do think that the accused behaviour is very strange as he is openly admitted that he found the phone. It is a miraculous that the police happened to accuse someone who coincidently had possession of Davids phone.

I think you need a reality check regarding your 'saintlike' opinion of the British Police Force in action.

Try reading the Graeme McLagan book titled "Bent Coppers" and then come back and convince everyone that a leopard can actually change it's spots.

I am not claiming that there is never any corruption in the Police force, there are always exceptions (as there are everywhere) BUT as a rule the British Police are not corrupt. What corruption there is will be hidden as much as possible as British society will never tolerate "bent coppers". So, its you who needs a reality check if you think that the British police force is institutionally corrupt. As for your book, not interested, there are always people who write sensational stuff, it sells books and he gets paid remember but only a narrow minded person would read a book like that and base their entire opinion of the police force on the strength of it.

I have and dealings with the Police before and in my opinion they are shackled to much in rules and regulations and should be given more freedom to do their jobs. Overall I have mostly found them thorough and reliable. About 3 years ago someone decided to smash the window to the french doors in my house, they ran in grabbed the laptop and handbag off the table and ran out again. Called the police, there in about 2 minutes by 7:00am both culprits caught and stuff returned.

Try that in Thailand and see what happens..

[RWA]

Whether the B2 are involved or not, I also believe there are killers on the lose, probably one or more people very prominent on the island. I think that if not for all the international attention the case has received, the B2 would have conveniently been laid to rest long ago.

My feelings reach out to the families, it is just horrible and can only hope that they receive true justice.

I doubt the families may ever receive any justice whatsoever,

for they don't seem to actively seek it out