Drivers license no longer ok for ID?

[Liquorice]

My passport will be expiring soon. I have a Thai car and motorbike license and both have my current passport number on them. When I get my new passport, do I have to get updated licenses that reflect the new pp number? If so, what documentation is required? I understand I would have to provide a copy of my new passport, but would I need to also provide a residence certificate and medical certificate?

The straight answer is yes.

The practical answer is to first look at when your DLs expire. Most people won't bother to advise the change of passport number. If you choose to then you are likely to need the residence certificate (in my area, immigration will only issue a certificate against the written request of the Land Transport Office). A medical certicate is not usually required for renewals etc,

Another reason Jip why a Thai DL should not be accepted as a formal proof of ID.

[spidermike007]

It is up to us to explain to the police how ridiculous a prospect it is, to carry our original passports, with our visas in it, around with us. I would give them an incredible ear load of crap, over this. I carry a color copy of my passport in my wallet. That is all they are ever going to get from me. They would have to jail me, before I would carry my passport with me. Ridiculous is ridiculous, Over the top and unreasonable. Just defy. Just resist nonsense. That is all we can do.

And besides, what are these absolute morons doing in a bar, asking for your ID? That, in and of itself is beyond reasonable.

Edited September 16, 2015 by spidermike007

[Soutpeel]

It is up to us to explain to the police how ridiculous a prospect it is, to carry our original passports, with our visas in it, around with us. I would give them an incredible ear load of crap, over this. I carry a color copy of my passport in my wallet. That is all they are ever going to get from me. They would have to jail me, before I would carry my passport with me. Ridiculous is ridiculous, Over the top and unreasonable. Just defy. Just resist nonsense. That is all we can do.

And besides, what are these absolute morons doing in a bar, asking for your ID? That, in and of itself is beyond reasonable.

Getting a handle on your anger issues may also help with dealing with the BIB

[Pattaya46]

It is up to us to explain to the police how ridiculous a prospect it is,

to carry our original passports, with our visas in it, around with us.

I certainly missed something in the 8 pages of this topic,

but I thought it was clear that you don't need to carry your passport all time with you ??

A copy of main pages and visa page is ok and enough, said by several Thai officials in media.

The OP here just didn't have this copy.

[Tomtomtom69]

It is up to us to explain to the police how ridiculous a prospect it is, to carry our original passports, with our visas in it, around with us. I would give them an incredible ear load of crap, over this. I carry a color copy of my passport in my wallet. That is all they are ever going to get from me. They would have to jail me, before I would carry my passport with me. Ridiculous is ridiculous, Over the top and unreasonable. Just defy. Just resist nonsense. That is all we can do.

And besides, what are these absolute morons doing in a bar, asking for your ID? That, in and of itself is beyond reasonable.

Getting a handle on your anger issues may also help with dealing with the BIB

Spidermike, it's called racial profiling. The Thai police are experts at it.

Imagine the outcry if Asians were targeted at downtown bars in Sydney, Los Angeles or London and asked to produce their IDs. But in the end only their passports were accepted.

Soutpeel, consider the fact please that many minorities in our own countries have for years been trying to get treated fairly and have also been angry when being faced with unreasonable profiling.

Why should Thailand be any different? I'm certainly not advocating showing visible anger, especially towards a cop (knowing that Thai cops are actually quite pleasant) but the principle of the whole thing is definitely worth getting upset about (at least in private, or over the internet).

Strange that an expat like you, is seemingly so OK with getting discriminated against. I do hope the police sets up a checkpoint outside your house and fines you 500 Baht for each time you leave your front gate (or door) without your passport. Or maybe you're one of these types that carries their passport everywhere, even to the beach? And maybe even in the water when you go swimming?

[Tomtomtom69]

It is up to us to explain to the police how ridiculous a prospect it is, to carry our original passports, with our visas in it, around with us. I would give them an incredible ear load of crap, over this. I carry a color copy of my passport in my wallet. That is all they are ever going to get from me. They would have to jail me, before I would carry my passport with me. Ridiculous is ridiculous, Over the top and unreasonable. Just defy. Just resist nonsense. That is all we can do.

And besides, what are these absolute morons doing in a bar, asking for your ID? That, in and of itself is beyond reasonable.

I agree with you. If that were to happen though, my response would be a very scaving complaint to the Thai police (and perhaps the Thai embassy in my own country) as well as the media about this profiling.

I would also leave the country and not come back.

Sometimes we just have to stand up for our principles.

And before some apologist wearing rose-tinted glasses says something like: "good, why don't you go home?" ummm....first of all, this didn't happen to me, nor has it ever happened. Despite the reports we hear and read, they're not so common. Secondly, why should we not fight for less discrimination and more rights?

Minorities did it in our countries, so why can't we band together and demand the same here? After all, we are a minority in Thailand. Just that Thailand is like the USA was in like 1910. That's the only difference.

[Soutpeel]

It is up to us to explain to the police how ridiculous a prospect it is, to carry our original passports, with our visas in it, around with us. I would give them an incredible ear load of crap, over this. I carry a color copy of my passport in my wallet. That is all they are ever going to get from me. They would have to jail me, before I would carry my passport with me. Ridiculous is ridiculous, Over the top and unreasonable. Just defy. Just resist nonsense. That is all we can do.

And besides, what are these absolute morons doing in a bar, asking for your ID? That, in and of itself is beyond reasonable.

Getting a handle on your anger issues may also help with dealing with the BIB

Spidermike, it's called racial profiling. The Thai police are experts at it.

Imagine the outcry if Asians were targeted at downtown bars in Sydney, Los Angeles or London and asked to produce their IDs. But in the end only their passports were accepted.

Soutpeel, consider the fact please that many minorities in our own countries have for years been trying to get treated fairly and have also been angry when being faced with unreasonable profiling.

Why should Thailand be any different? I'm certainly not advocating showing visible anger, especially towards a cop (knowing that Thai cops are actually quite pleasant) but the principle of the whole thing is definitely worth getting upset about (at least in private, or over the internet).

Strange that an expat like you, is seemingly so OK with getting discriminated against. I do hope the police sets up a checkpoint outside your house and fines you 500 Baht for each time you leave your front gate (or door) without your passport. Or maybe you're one of these types that carries their passport everywhere, even to the beach? And maybe even in the water when you go swimming?

Fact is in 15 years here cant say i have ever felt being discriminated against, i dont carry my passport everywhere with me, except where i have to ie like the airport flying out of Thailand, only carry my DL ..and to that end in all these years never been stopped by the BIB to produce a passport and if one day they do stop me i will deal with it at the time, if they set up a check point outside my gate they can....will send them a few beers out

The difference between me and a lot on here is that i an not a professional victim or one of the professional opressed and can only suggested if a foreigner feels that oppressed and victimized they really should consider another more "friendly" country.... i know i would if i felt that way

The real reason i suspect for all this "outrage" is not to with the fact of compelling people to carry passports but " how dare the natives do this to the whiteys, dont the natives know their place in the presence of the all knowing farang"

I am well used to carrying an identity document as had to do it for all the years i lived in the country you referred to...its no big deal

Edited September 16, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Tomtomtom69]

Good post. 1. Try to find the law or policy that says a Thai Driver's License is or is not a valid ID for foreigners and valid for ALL government agencies and ministries.2. In general carrying the Passoprt around is not a good idea. Nobody has ever cited the exact Thai law. A bit of a gray area on the validity of a good photo copy, or if you can present the passport in a reasonable amount of time. I am sure the cops won't wait and won't follow you to your apartment. That is outside their convenience level.

I think you first have to look at the laws within Thailand and what constitutes acceptable ID for a Thai.

Their birth is registered at an Amphur, they are placed on the Thai Civil Register and their name entered into the house book (Tabian Baan) of the parent(s). At age 7 they must by law obtain an ID card, which contains fingerprint biometrics.

Throughout their life they use an ID card and the Tabian Baan as proof of who they are and where they are registered to obtain services and entitlements from all government establishments.

Did your home Country accept a valid Driving licence as proof of ID to get a Visa to enter Thailand?

Will Thai Immigration accept a valid Thai Driving Licence as a form of ID?

The answer to both questions is of course, No!

Foreigners are issued a Passport to travel and form a part of their ID to be accepted in a foreign Country.

Those passports will be encrypted with some form of biometrics as refutable evidence that the holder is who they claim to be.

In Thailand, a form of address confirmation will also be required to access government services and entitlements.

A foreigner may present various evidence in this respect, which may or may not be accepted, depending on the situation and circumstances.

1. Copies of landlords/house owners ID card and Tabian Baan.

2. Certificate of Residence issued by an Immigration office.

3. Certificate of Residence issued by your Embassy.

4. Foreigners Tabian Baan (Yellow House book)

I am not saying that a Thai DL is not accepted as a form of ID in certain situations or by an individual, but it is certainly not a recognised form of ID whether offered by a Thai or a foreigner to a Police officer, Immigration, or a Government department, or certain institutions.

But if you want to be smart and avoid problems as a foreigner, you should carry at the minimum copies of your recognised ID (passport) and some form of proof of address.

I recently renewed my Thai Driving Licence, but my old licence was not accepted as proof of my ID.

Only my Passport and Tabian Baan were accepted and that's no different than a Thai.

Isn't that proof enough that the Transport department who issued the DL, will then further not accept that as proof of ID.

The proof of address, of course, being on your Thai D/L

Yes, but that address was taken from a Certificate of Residence, or Tabian Baan as proof of address.

It is a recording of your address, not actual proof of address.

The only "proof" of address that my embassy asks me for is what I write on the "statuatory declaration" and I sign underneath to state what I have written is true. That one page declaration is stamped and signed by the embassy for a hefty fee (although it's reportedly only about 1/3 to 1/6 of the fee charged by other embassies) and is used as the basis for what goes on the driver's licence.

I think that a document issued by a Thai authority is much more valid as "proof" of an address than a self-written document that is signed away as being true.

But all bets are off here in Thailand, of course.

Then again, what else were you expecting? It's not like passports hold address information in them. Even if they do, the address details would have to be your address written in pencil (again, with no actual proof, you could write anything in there) of an address in the country of your passport.

[HampiK]

I not understand about this big complains. Inside europe you also need to have your passport with you if you not able to produce an ID Card.

I am not sure about US, but i guess if the police in US stop me, they will ask for my passport to check if i am a valid US visitor or if i am in US without a valid visa!

I think many people think, because in the past they not checked or don't care.. mean it is valid. This seems for me about the same as to complain, why can't go in and out with visa exempt stamp forever. Which country allowed this? But it always easier to complain!

[blackcab]

It has often been discussed and I remember one statement from a high ranking police officer saying that carrying copies would be accepted.

It is also quite certain that foreigners got trouble for not carrying copies at least.

So this case is not a first timer.

Be aware that we have a nervous situation after the bombing and the scandalous reports that Thai immigration let foreigners in without registering (for a bribe).

I always have copies with me (main page, pages with visa, extension stamp and departure card).

But can not proof whether it will always be acceptable, as I never been asked for on the spot

When doing overnight/distant trips, I always have the original passport with me.

Hotel where I stay checks carefully and writes down data from the passport.

Always searching for the extension stamp/admitted until.

I have had fun and games with hotels about this. I will show them only my name and passport number. They are not immigration and have no right to check my visa details.

I tell them to get immigration to come and check if they want, or i will find a different hotel.

Always i have stayed and no immigration has arrived.

The hotel needs to give Immi all your details.You are just bullying the staff,no wonder farangs get a bad name.A few hotels i go to regularly haven't asked for any id from me what so ever.I doubt they keep my records from 5 years back.Just shows different approaches i guess.

I don't bully anyone. Or if i do, it is the owner of the hotel, not the staff.

Is it a rule or law that a person with possibly no knowledge of immigration law, possibly not able to read English should be allowed to nose around in my passport?

If the law, i will suffer it of course. But as we many things here in Thailand a command from a person in power suddenly gets interpreted as law?

If immigration want to know surely they can input my name and passport number to check, rather than expecting hotel staff to do so.

More to the point as i have already stated, most of the time i am never asked for my passport, which makes the scheme completely useless as a security check.

It is a requirement from immigration that hotels must complete a TM30 for all non-Thai guests. The General Manager is the designated person to ensure this is done, however the GM will of course delegate this task to the front desk manager and their staff.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=alienstay

"According to section 38 of the 1979 immigration act, "House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national." If there is no immigration office in the province or locality of the respective house or hotel, the notification is made to the local police station. In Bangkok the notification is made to the Immigration Bureau. The notification of residence of foreign nationals is made by the manager of licensed hotels according to the hotel act, owners of guesthouses, mansions, apartments and rented houses using the form TM. 30.

The notification of residence of foreign nationals within 24 hours can be made in a number of ways to make the notification as convenient as possible:

In person at the respective office, or

Through an authorised person at the respective office, or

By registered mail, or

Via internet.

[Boolah]

I certainly missed something in the 8 pages of this topic,

but I thought it was clear that you don't need to carry your passport all time with you ??

A copy of main pages and visa page is ok and enough, said by several Thai officials in media.

The OP here just didn't have this copy.

Look, the point of this topic was simple, is a Thai DL no longer valid as ID? ...

As stated in my first post, a top immigration officer assured us that expats carrying their Thai DL was acceptable ID. If this has changed over the recent events, I understand totally but.....

We were checked for IDs in a Thai bar by local cops. We didn't have our passports or copies but all did have valid DL. We were taken to the police station and charged because we didn't have valid IDs showing our visa status (our passport or copies) They also issued the fine without requesting to see our original passports to check our visa status, which seemed to be the whole point of the ordeal in the first place.

Another point I tried to make was, if a valid Thai DL is not enough for the police during a so called random ID check, is a photocopy of a passport that isn't stamped by immigration going to suffice?

[Liquorice]

I certainly missed something in the 8 pages of this topic,

but I thought it was clear that you don't need to carry your passport all time with you ??

A copy of main pages and visa page is ok and enough, said by several Thai officials in media.

The OP here just didn't have this copy.

Look, the point of this topic was simple, is a Thai DL no longer valid as ID? ...

As stated in my first post, a top immigration officer assured us that expats carrying their Thai DL was acceptable ID. If this has changed over the recent events, I understand totally but.....

We were checked for IDs in a Thai bar by local cops. We didn't have our passports or copies but all did have valid DL. We were taken to the police station and charged because we didn't have valid IDs showing our visa status (our passport or copies) They also issued the fine without requesting to see our original passports to check our visa status, which seemed to be the whole point of the ordeal in the first place.

Another point I tried to make was, if a valid Thai DL is not enough for the police during a so called random ID check, is a photocopy of a passport that isn't stamped by immigration going to suffice?

A copy of the information page of your passport and a copy of the current Visa or extension stamp, which also proves your Immigration status.

[oncearugge]

I certainly missed something in the 8 pages of this topic,

but I thought it was clear that you don't need to carry your passport all time with you ??

A copy of main pages and visa page is ok and enough, said by several Thai officials in media.

The OP here just didn't have this copy.

Look, the point of this topic was simple, is a Thai DL no longer valid as ID? ...

As stated in my first post, a top immigration officer assured us that expats carrying their Thai DL was acceptable ID. If this has changed over the recent events, I understand totally but.....

We were checked for IDs in a Thai bar by local cops. We didn't have our passports or copies but all did have valid DL. We were taken to the police station and charged because we didn't have valid IDs showing our visa status (our passport or copies) They also issued the fine without requesting to see our original passports to check our visa status, which seemed to be the whole point of the ordeal in the first place.

Another point I tried to make was, if a valid Thai DL is not enough for the police during a so called random ID check, is a photocopy of a passport that isn't stamped by immigration going to suffice?

My wife and I were stopped at a road block not far from where we live.

The police checked my wife's Thai ID card and then asked me for my passport !

I was not able to show the passport as it was locked in the safe at home. My wife offered to fetch the pp whilst I waited with the police.

The offer was refused because they were satisfied with my producing my Thai DL!

[Boolah]

I certainly missed something in the 8 pages of this topic,

but I thought it was clear that you don't need to carry your passport all time with you ??

A copy of main pages and visa page is ok and enough, said by several Thai officials in media.

The OP here just didn't have this copy.

Look, the point of this topic was simple, is a Thai DL no longer valid as ID? ...

As stated in my first post, a top immigration officer assured us that expats carrying their Thai DL was acceptable ID. If this has changed over the recent events, I understand totally but.....

We were checked for IDs in a Thai bar by local cops. We didn't have our passports or copies but all did have valid DL. We were taken to the police station and charged because we didn't have valid IDs showing our visa status (our passport or copies) They also issued the fine without requesting to see our original passports to check our visa status, which seemed to be the whole point of the ordeal in the first place.

Another point I tried to make was, if a valid Thai DL is not enough for the police during a so called random ID check, is a photocopy of a passport that isn't stamped by immigration going to suffice?

A copy of the information page of your passport and a copy of the current Visa or extension stamp, which also proves your Immigration status.

Stamped by immigration?

[oncearugge]

I certainly missed something in the 8 pages of this topic,

but I thought it was clear that you don't need to carry your passport all time with you ??

A copy of main pages and visa page is ok and enough, said by several Thai officials in media.

The OP here just didn't have this copy.

Look, the point of this topic was simple, is a Thai DL no longer valid as ID? ...

As stated in my first post, a top immigration officer assured us that expats carrying their Thai DL was acceptable ID. If this has changed over the recent events, I understand totally but.....

We were checked for IDs in a Thai bar by local cops. We didn't have our passports or copies but all did have valid DL. We were taken to the police station and charged because we didn't have valid IDs showing our visa status (our passport or copies) They also issued the fine without requesting to see our original passports to check our visa status, which seemed to be the whole point of the ordeal in the first place.

Another point I tried to make was, if a valid Thai DL is not enough for the police during a so called random ID check, is a photocopy of a passport that isn't stamped by immigration going to suffice?

A copy of the information page of your passport and a copy of the current Visa or extension stamp, which also proves your Immigration status.

Stamped by immigration?

Immigration do not "stamp" copies...............................

[Tomtomtom69]

I not understand about this big complains. Inside europe you also need to have your passport with you if you not able to produce an ID Card.

I am not sure about US, but i guess if the police in US stop me, they will ask for my passport to check if i am a valid US visitor or if i am in US without a valid visa!

I think many people think, because in the past they not checked or don't care.. mean it is valid. This seems for me about the same as to complain, why can't go in and out with visa exempt stamp forever. Which country allowed this? But it always easier to complain!

Actually, what you are trying to say is not quite correct.

Sounds like you are from Europe. If you are a citizen of a Schengen member state or EEC area, then all you need is an ID card. A passport is only required for "real" foreigners from outside the member zone. Thais for instance will need to have their passports with them when in Europe. I for example, don't. Just my national ID card is good enough. I will need a passport to enter the UK though, as does everyone else because it's not part of the Schengen zone.

Last year my parents were travelling in Europe with my dad's former Thai student and her cousin/her husband. In Greece, the Thais were asked to show their passports. The former Thai student, who is also a lecturer at a prestigious Bangkok university holds an official Thai passport, which surprisingly entitles her to visa-free entry to a number of unexpected countries, some of which are in Europe. She has often been stopped and asked to show her passport and border officials have sometimes been confused about the lack of a visa in her passport.

So sure, you have a point there, but it applies mainly to non-EU, non-Schengen, non-EEC nationals.

As far as the USA is concerned, I could be wrong, but as far as I can remember there was a huge controversy about the ability of immigration/police to do random spot checks and ask for papers. In Arizona, they tried to make that the law, if the police suspected a person of committing a crime. The proposed law flew like a lead balloon due to concerns of racial profiling. Obviously there are no concerns about that here in Thailand because there are no local civil liberties groups or anything that even comes close. There are no local groups fighting for the rights of foreigners, nor are there are groups composed of foreigners fighting for the rights of foreigners living in Thailand. Perhaps the closest thing might be the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce of Thailand (JFCCT), but their main concerns lie with simplifying business including making it easier for foreign investors or company directors to be based in Thailand, not so much about making it easier to live in Thailand for foreigners in general. Although there have been some groups fighting for the rights of migrant workers, even these groups are poorly organized and their life is made very difficult. They certainly can't operate freely, that's for sure.

Back to the USA, only at border patrol checkpoints located in the four southern states sharing a border with Mexico might immigration be allowed to ask for proof you have entered the US legally and are currently staying in the USA on a legal visa. US police are NOT allowed to ask for someone's immigration status. Usually though, random spot checks do NOT occur in the USA or as far as I'm aware in most other civilized countries. There must first be reason to suspect someone of overstaying or working illegally etc., which usually occurs after a tip-off.

As for the whole in-out visa waiver thingy, sure, not a whole lot of countries allow that. Especially not western countries. However, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar and Vietnam still do. China to some extent does too, but unlike Thailand will not readily grant another visa to a habitual abuser of tourist visas (few countries can enter China visa-free, except for some limited travel in places like Guangdong if coming across from Hong Kong or if travelling to a 3rd country via one of the major cities such as Shanghai, Beijing, Chengdu, Guangzhou etc.)

[Tomtomtom69]

I certainly missed something in the 8 pages of this topic,

but I thought it was clear that you don't need to carry your passport all time with you ??

A copy of main pages and visa page is ok and enough, said by several Thai officials in media.

The OP here just didn't have this copy.

Look, the point of this topic was simple, is a Thai DL no longer valid as ID? ...

As stated in my first post, a top immigration officer assured us that expats carrying their Thai DL was acceptable ID. If this has changed over the recent events, I understand totally but.....

We were checked for IDs in a Thai bar by local cops. We didn't have our passports or copies but all did have valid DL. We were taken to the police station and charged because we didn't have valid IDs showing our visa status (our passport or copies) They also issued the fine without requesting to see our original passports to check our visa status, which seemed to be the whole point of the ordeal in the first place.

Another point I tried to make was, if a valid Thai DL is not enough for the police during a so called random ID check, is a photocopy of a passport that isn't stamped by immigration going to suffice?

A copy of the information page of your passport and a copy of the current Visa or extension stamp, which also proves your Immigration status.

Stamped by immigration?

I'm just wondering when Thai police will discover computers.

Shouldn't they be able to ascertain someone's visa status simply with a name, date of birth and passport number?

Why this nonsense about requiring real (or even copies) of passports when they could just look it up in the computer system?

In Australia they stopped issuing visa stickers, only issuing electronic visas and now all information is contained within their immigration computer system. Not that a police officer would have any authority to check a foreigner's visa status anyway, but if immigration did, all they would need to know is the foreigner's passport details. The actual passport would only be required in order to proceed with deportation proceedings as obviously you can't deport a foreigner whose nationality can't be proven.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Tomtomtom69

[oncearugge]

Immigration officers in Thailand can check someone's visa status using their computer system and Australian police can detain someone who is unable to prove they are in the country legitimately.

(No electronic visa = no entry stamp in the passport! )

Edited September 16, 2015 by oncearugge

[Tomtomtom69]

I have had fun and games with hotels about this. I will show them only my name and passport number. They are not immigration and have no right to check my visa details.

I tell them to get immigration to come and check if they want, or i will find a different hotel.

Always i have stayed and no immigration has arrived.

The hotel needs to give Immi all your details.You are just bullying the staff,no wonder farangs get a bad name.A few hotels i go to regularly haven't asked for any id from me what so ever.I doubt they keep my records from 5 years back.Just shows different approaches i guess.

I don't bully anyone. Or if i do, it is the owner of the hotel, not the staff.

Is it a rule or law that a person with possibly no knowledge of immigration law, possibly not able to read English should be allowed to nose around in my passport?

If the law, i will suffer it of course. But as we many things here in Thailand a command from a person in power suddenly gets interpreted as law?

If immigration want to know surely they can input my name and passport number to check, rather than expecting hotel staff to do so.

More to the point as i have already stated, most of the time i am never asked for my passport, which makes the scheme completely useless as a security check.

It is a requirement from immigration that hotels must complete a TM30 for all non-Thai guests. The General Manager is the designated person to ensure this is done, however the GM will of course delegate this task to the front desk manager and their staff.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=alienstay

"According to section 38 of the 1979 immigration act, "House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national." If there is no immigration office in the province or locality of the respective house or hotel, the notification is made to the local police station. In Bangkok the notification is made to the Immigration Bureau. The notification of residence of foreign nationals is made by the manager of licensed hotels according to the hotel act, owners of guesthouses, mansions, apartments and rented houses using the form TM. 30.

The notification of residence of foreign nationals within 24 hours can be made in a number of ways to make the notification as convenient as possible:

In person at the respective office, or

Through an authorised person at the respective office, or

By registered mail, or

Via internet.

That is correct and indeed the legal requirement. But most hotels couldn't be bothered with this nonsense, which is the equivalent of the bad old communist days in Russia and the eastern Soviet bloc. In other words, it's what police states do. But hey, we're living in a police state! Thailand is a police state.

chrissables does make a point though. A hotel, although it is supposed to register a foreigner, has no business getting their hands dirty with little details inside a foreigner's passport. Besides, most staff can neither speak nor read English very well (or whatever other language is contained within a passport as not all passports have English on them anyway).

But as stated, most hotels don't even bother and while they might ask for a passport at first, I will always hand over only my Thai driver's licence and this has never been an issue, even recently. And I have stayed at many, many hotels throughout the country.

I think if the authorities were to become much more insistent on passports being required, then some hotels might start refusing foreign guests? Well, there are actually hotels in China, Myanmar and to a lesser extent in Vietnam, that can't (or won't) accept foreign guests. In the case of China, it might be because the hotels in question don't want to bother registering foreigners (or don't know how). In the case of Vietnam only the shabbiest, dingiest dives won't accept foreigners, while in Myanmar it's any hotel that isn't registered for foreigners (in practice this means lower class hotels and/or those located in areas off-limits to foreign travellers). All major hotels and anything 2 or 3 star and above will accept foreign guests.

Back to Thailand.

In practice, only hotels in major tourist areas even seem to ask for a passport in the first place and secondly most don't seem to insist on it. I did hear on the radio about hotels in Khao San possibly insisting on passports now after the bombing in light of instructions from the Chana Songkram police station, though I have never stayed there, never will (it's a dump and besides, I have a place to live in Bangkok anyway) but that's not to say all hotels and guesthouses actually follow these rules, or if they do, it's likely they already did before the bombing. Some places there don't even accept Thai guests, they only accept foreigners!

In all other cases, whenever passports are requested and/or guests show them, invariably ONLY the front page is copied. I have NEVER ever seen a Thai hotel clerk fiddle around with nifty details like visas, permission to stay etc. They do that in Myanmar, Vietnam and China, but never once have I seen that happen in Thailand.

Please tell me the names of all the hotels you have stayed at, where they have done this. I can guarantee you none of the ones I or people I know have stayed at do.

[Tomtomtom69]

Immigration officers in Thailand can check someone's visa status using their computer system and Australian police can detain someone who is unable to prove they are in the country legitimately.

(No electronic visa = no entry stamp in the passport! )

Well then tell me Sherlock, why then does a police officer or immigration need to see a foreigners real passport if they really are able to confirm the details of a foreigner's stay in their computer?

If all they are trying to do is confirm their status, then they don't need a real passport.

As mentioned Australian authorities will never randomly inspect passports and just a name, d.o.b. and passport number will do to confirm the holder's visa details electronically. No need to sight the physical document. Immigration can detain people illegally in the country, the police can't. Please show me proof you know otherwise - unlike in Thailand, Australian police have no authority over immigration matters.

Also, you seem to have forgotten the fact that 99.999999% of all visa abusers in Australia have entered the country legally, so obviously they will have an entry stamp! Visas don't last forever, so how would you be able to tell how long a foreigner is entitled to stay, just by looking at a stamp that merely states, entered Australia on this date? You would need a visa for that, and as mentioned, all visas are electronic now!

So of course a visa overstayer, illegal worker etc. can be detained and deported. But showing or not showing a physical passport document makes no difference. All the required details can be found electronically.

[Tomtomtom69]

I certainly missed something in the 8 pages of this topic,

but I thought it was clear that you don't need to carry your passport all time with you ??

A copy of main pages and visa page is ok and enough, said by several Thai officials in media.

The OP here just didn't have this copy.

Look, the point of this topic was simple, is a Thai DL no longer valid as ID? ...

As stated in my first post, a top immigration officer assured us that expats carrying their Thai DL was acceptable ID. If this has changed over the recent events, I understand totally but.....

We were checked for IDs in a Thai bar by local cops. We didn't have our passports or copies but all did have valid DL. We were taken to the police station and charged because we didn't have valid IDs showing our visa status (our passport or copies) They also issued the fine without requesting to see our original passports to check our visa status, which seemed to be the whole point of the ordeal in the first place.

Another point I tried to make was, if a valid Thai DL is not enough for the police during a so called random ID check, is a photocopy of a passport that isn't stamped by immigration going to suffice?

My wife and I were stopped at a road block not far from where we live.

The police checked my wife's Thai ID card and then asked me for my passport !

I was not able to show the passport as it was locked in the safe at home. My wife offered to fetch the pp whilst I waited with the police.

The offer was refused because they were satisfied with my producing my Thai DL!

Police stopping cars at random on the roadside have no business asking you for a passport in the first place. Were you driving? If so, then obviously they should have only insisted on your driving licence, which all police officers who have ever stopped me have asked me for. Since when does a passport prove driving ability? Thai logic perhaps?

Having said that, just over 10 years ago at a roadside stop south of Lampang at 2.30am, I was stopped with my Vietnamese friend. They asked him (via me since I speak Thai, even though not that well back then; now I'm fluent though) for his passport and checked his entry stamp. They did not ask for mine.

Funny incident last year though when the same friend who was my passenger was asked to do a roadside pee test in Khon Kaen province, but not me, the driver! Thai logic again!

It seems that if you can speak Thai you can get away with a lot more than if you can't. Speak only English and a passport is more likely to be asked for, even though it shouldn't be. Not at a roadside stop anyway.

[oncearugge]

Nice Rant!

How many people can recite their passport number from memory?

Australian police have wide ranging authority which includes the detention of those who cannot prove their identity or if they are in the country legitimately.

How do I know?

My son is a senior Australian policeman

[NCC1701A]

did you ask which cop's birthday it was?

[oncearugge]

I certainly missed something in the 8 pages of this topic,

but I thought it was clear that you don't need to carry your passport all time with you ??

A copy of main pages and visa page is ok and enough, said by several Thai officials in media.

The OP here just didn't have this copy.

Look, the point of this topic was simple, is a Thai DL no longer valid as ID? ...

As stated in my first post, a top immigration officer assured us that expats carrying their Thai DL was acceptable ID. If this has changed over the recent events, I understand totally but.....

We were checked for IDs in a Thai bar by local cops. We didn't have our passports or copies but all did have valid DL. We were taken to the police station and charged because we didn't have valid IDs showing our visa status (our passport or copies) They also issued the fine without requesting to see our original passports to check our visa status, which seemed to be the whole point of the ordeal in the first place.

Another point I tried to make was, if a valid Thai DL is not enough for the police during a so called random ID check, is a photocopy of a passport that isn't stamped by immigration going to suffice?

My wife and I were stopped at a road block not far from where we live.

The police checked my wife's Thai ID card and then asked me for my passport !

I was not able to show the passport as it was locked in the safe at home. My wife offered to fetch the pp whilst I waited with the police.

The offer was refused because they were satisfied with my producing my Thai DL!

Police stopping cars at random on the roadside have no business asking you for a passport in the first place. Were you driving? If so, then obviously they should have only insisted on your driving licence, which all police officers who have ever stopped me have asked me for. Since when does a passport prove driving ability? Thai logic perhaps?

Having said that, just over 10 years ago at a roadside stop south of Lampang at 2.30am, I was stopped with my Vietnamese friend. They asked him (via me since I speak Thai, even though not that well back then; now I'm fluent though) for his passport and checked his entry stamp. They did not ask for mine.

Funny incident last year though when the same friend who was my passenger was asked to do a roadside pee test in Khon Kaen province, but not me, the driver! Thai logic again!

It seems that if you can speak Thai you can get away with a lot more than if you can't. Speak only English and a passport is more likely to be asked for, even though it shouldn't be. Not at a roadside stop anyway.

Wife (who does not drink) was driving!

I think you will find that the police are entitled to ask a foreigner to produce ID in the form of a passport.

And yes I do speak passable Thai but on that occasion the policeman was happy to speak English!

[Maestro]

...

Another point I tried to make was, if a valid Thai DL is not enough for the police during a so called random ID check, is a photocopy of a passport that isn't stamped by immigration going to suffice?

It is up to the police officer whether he wants to accept a photocopy of the passport for personal identification.

[Soutpeel]

I have had fun and games with hotels about this. I will show them only my name and passport number. They are not immigration and have no right to check my visa details.

I tell them to get immigration to come and check if they want, or i will find a different hotel.

Always i have stayed and no immigration has arrived.

The hotel needs to give Immi all your details.You are just bullying the staff,no wonder farangs get a bad name.A few hotels i go to regularly haven't asked for any id from me what so ever.I doubt they keep my records from 5 years back.Just shows different approaches i guess.

I don't bully anyone. Or if i do, it is the owner of the hotel, not the staff.

Is it a rule or law that a person with possibly no knowledge of immigration law, possibly not able to read English should be allowed to nose around in my passport?

If the law, i will suffer it of course. But as we many things here in Thailand a command from a person in power suddenly gets interpreted as law?

If immigration want to know surely they can input my name and passport number to check, rather than expecting hotel staff to do so.

More to the point as i have already stated, most of the time i am never asked for my passport, which makes the scheme completely useless as a security check.

It is a requirement from immigration that hotels must complete a TM30 for all non-Thai guests. The General Manager is the designated person to ensure this is done, however the GM will of course delegate this task to the front desk manager and their staff.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=alienstay

"According to section 38 of the 1979 immigration act, "House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national." If there is no immigration office in the province or locality of the respective house or hotel, the notification is made to the local police station. In Bangkok the notification is made to the Immigration Bureau. The notification of residence of foreign nationals is made by the manager of licensed hotels according to the hotel act, owners of guesthouses, mansions, apartments and rented houses using the form TM. 30.

The notification of residence of foreign nationals within 24 hours can be made in a number of ways to make the notification as convenient as possible:

In person at the respective office, or

Through an authorised person at the respective office, or

By registered mail, or

Via internet.

That is correct and indeed the legal requirement. But most hotels couldn't be bothered with this nonsense, which is the equivalent of the bad old communist days in Russia and the eastern Soviet bloc. In other words, it's what police states do. But hey, we're living in a police state! Thailand is a police state.

chrissables does make a point though. A hotel, although it is supposed to register a foreigner, has no business getting their hands dirty with little details inside a foreigner's passport. Besides, most staff can neither speak nor read English very well (or whatever other language is contained within a passport as not all passports have English on them anyway).

But as stated, most hotels don't even bother and while they might ask for a passport at first, I will always hand over only my Thai driver's licence and this has never been an issue, even recently. And I have stayed at many, many hotels throughout the country.

I think if the authorities were to become much more insistent on passports being required, then some hotels might start refusing foreign guests? Well, there are actually hotels in China, Myanmar and to a lesser extent in Vietnam, that can't (or won't) accept foreign guests. In the case of China, it might be because the hotels in question don't want to bother registering foreigners (or don't know how). In the case of Vietnam only the shabbiest, dingiest dives won't accept foreigners, while in Myanmar it's any hotel that isn't registered for foreigners (in practice this means lower class hotels and/or those located in areas off-limits to foreign travellers). All major hotels and anything 2 or 3 star and above will accept foreign guests.

Back to Thailand.

In practice, only hotels in major tourist areas even seem to ask for a passport in the first place and secondly most don't seem to insist on it. I did hear on the radio about hotels in Khao San possibly insisting on passports now after the bombing in light of instructions from the Chana Songkram police station, though I have never stayed there, never will (it's a dump and besides, I have a place to live in Bangkok anyway) but that's not to say all hotels and guesthouses actually follow these rules, or if they do, it's likely they already did before the bombing. Some places there don't even accept Thai guests, they only accept foreigners!

In all other cases, whenever passports are requested and/or guests show them, invariably ONLY the front page is copied. I have NEVER ever seen a Thai hotel clerk fiddle around with nifty details like visas, permission to stay etc. They do that in Myanmar, Vietnam and China, but never once have I seen that happen in Thailand.

Please tell me the names of all the hotels you have stayed at, where they have done this. I can guarantee you none of the ones I or people I know have stayed at do.

Tomtom you dont half write a load of twaddle honestly only hotels in major toursit aread ask for pp's....horse s@it

You really need to get over your anger issues

[Soutpeel]

I certainly missed something in the 8 pages of this topic,

but I thought it was clear that you don't need to carry your passport all time with you ??

A copy of main pages and visa page is ok and enough, said by several Thai officials in media.

The OP here just didn't have this copy.

Look, the point of this topic was simple, is a Thai DL no longer valid as ID? ...

As stated in my first post, a top immigration officer assured us that expats carrying their Thai DL was acceptable ID. If this has changed over the recent events, I understand totally but.....

We were checked for IDs in a Thai bar by local cops. We didn't have our passports or copies but all did have valid DL. We were taken to the police station and charged because we didn't have valid IDs showing our visa status (our passport or copies) They also issued the fine without requesting to see our original passports to check our visa status, which seemed to be the whole point of the ordeal in the first place.

Another point I tried to make was, if a valid Thai DL is not enough for the police during a so called random ID check, is a photocopy of a passport that isn't stamped by immigration going to suffice?

My wife and I were stopped at a road block not far from where we live.

The police checked my wife's Thai ID card and then asked me for my passport !

I was not able to show the passport as it was locked in the safe at home. My wife offered to fetch the pp whilst I waited with the police.

The offer was refused because they were satisfied with my producing my Thai DL!

Police stopping cars at random on the roadside have no business asking you for a passport in the first place. Were you driving? If so, then obviously they should have only insisted on your driving licence, which all police officers who have ever stopped me have asked me for. Since when does a passport prove driving ability? Thai logic perhaps?

Having said that, just over 10 years ago at a roadside stop south of Lampang at 2.30am, I was stopped with my Vietnamese friend. They asked him (via me since I speak Thai, even though not that well back then; now I'm fluent though) for his passport and checked his entry stamp. They did not ask for mine.

Funny incident last year though when the same friend who was my passenger was asked to do a roadside pee test in Khon Kaen province, but not me, the driver! Thai logic again!

It seems that if you can speak Thai you can get away with a lot more than if you can't. Speak only English and a passport is more likely to be asked for, even though it shouldn't be. Not at a roadside stop anyway.

Police anywhere in the world have the right to ask someone to prove their identity and in Thailand, legal proof of identity for a non citizen or PR is their pp .....stop with all this BS

Your rants are just making you silly now

[Soutpeel]

...

Another point I tried to make was, if a valid Thai DL is not enough for the police during a so called random ID check, is a photocopy of a passport that isn't stamped by immigration going to suffice?

It is up to the police officer whether he wants to accept a photocopy of the passport for personal identification.

Correct or a Thai DL for that matter

[Soutpeel]

Nice Rant!

How many people can recite their passport number from memory?

Australian police have wide ranging authority which includes the detention of those who cannot prove their identity or if they are in the country legitimately.

How do I know?

My son is a senior Australian policeman

Just ignore Tomtom he is a professional victim thats all

[Tomtomtom69]

Anyway, in summary, it's their country, they can do what they want.

Since Thailand is a police state, there shouldn't be any surprises that immigration expects foreigners to be registered.

Just that we've been so used to Thailand functioning as casually and flexibly as it has been that we don't expect any laws to really be enforced here. As I have stated already, I have never experienced any issues personally, but that isn't to say I won't in the future. Just that I would much rather hand over a valid DL or a valid ID card (which they rarely seem to issue here for foreigners) than a bulky passport. The passport obsession in Thailand is way more excessive than in most other countries I've lived or worked in.

Just hope that if they ever get really strict on this, hotel owners won't start refusing to accept foreign guests. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Foreigner comes in, has to get registered, too much paperwork - nah! Buzz off foreigner. LOL. Might start happening though...