After Iran deal, Obama struggles to gain Israel's trust

[Jingthing]

Passion isn't required or arguably even desirable in long marriages.

[Ulysses G.]

It may well be that driving a wedge between Israel and USA might be the best action of Obama's reign.

Obsessive Israel demonizers and/or Iranian regime lovers don't be dancing in the streets just yet. While it is true the USA - Israel love affair is going through a rough patch it's only a temporary glitch. A new president is coming and with her the relationship will be quickly repaired.

The US-Israel love affair is on the rocks and it will take more than the election of Hillary Clinton to rekindle the passion.

Don't be so sure. Americans prefer Israel to the Palestinians by an enormous percentage and that won't change for decades - if ever.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

All of the likely next US presidents will be strong allies of Israel. As far as the tension between Barry and Bibi I they both share the blame.

[Docno]

All of the likely next US presidents will be strong allies of Israel. As far as the tension between Barry and Bibi I they both share the blame.

Please, someone, explain to me why--logically speaking--Israel's interests should drive US foreign policy to such an extent. Just look here how often Israel is mentioned as the reason why the US should not have made this deal with Iran. And don't tell me "Israel is the only working democracy in the region"... that explains or justifies nothing. [And one could argue that Israel does not behave like a democratic nation, with its expropriation of Palestinian land, etc.]. Why does Israel hold such a special place in the thinking of some Americans, especially politicians on the right.

[Ulysses G.]

Why does Israel hold such a special place in the thinking of some Americans, especially politicians on the right.

Israel is pretty close to being our best ally on the planet. The relationship is based on tangible, steadily increasing security and economic interests as well as shared values. The U.S.-Israeli alliance remains a counterweight against radical forces in the Middle East, including political Islam and violent extremism.

Israel is the only Middle Eastern state never to oppose America on major international issues. Its fundamental interests, like its values, are America’s. For the price of annual military aid equaling roughly half the cost of one Zumwalt-class destroyer, the United States helps maintain the military might of one of the few nations actively contributing to America’s defense.

http://foreignpolicy...ltimate-ally-2/

Edited September 15, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

Israel is on the front lines against Islamic terrorism. A fight that the USA and the west in general shares. Losing against those dark barbaric head chopping forces is NOT an option!

[Naam]

Israel is on the front lines against Islamic terrorism. A fight that the USA and the west in general shares. Losing against those dark barbaric head chopping forces is NOT an option!

some governments concluded that denying Iran's right to explore nuclear options for peaceful purposes is not an option. and please don't counter with the ridiculous argument "Iran has signed..." because Iran never signed an agreement which prevents the country to enrich Uranium.

slightly off topic my personal view worth the proverbial 2 Satangs: without Bibi Netanyahu's arrogant behaviour and assistance president Obama wouldn't have obtained the required votes to push the agreement (as it stands now) through.

[Ulysses G.]

IMO, Obama obtained the required votes to push the agreement (as it stands now) through.because he strong-armed members of his own party into a partisan vote. Most democrats don't blame Netanyahu for promoting his own countries' best interests. Most Americans believe that they are the USA's best interests too.

[Naam]

IMO, Obama obtained the required votes to push the agreement (as it stands now) through.because he strong-armed members of his own party into a partisan vote. Most democrats don't blame Netanyahu for promoting his own countries' best interests. Most Americans believe that they are the USA's best interests too.

most polar bears vote republican whilst most penguins are leftists.

source: my most personal view

[Seastallion]

Why does Israel hold such a special place in the thinking of some Americans, especially politicians on the right.

Israel is pretty close to being our best ally on the planet. The relationship is based on tangible, steadily increasing security and economic interests as well as shared values. The U.S.-Israeli alliance remains a counterweight against radical forces in the Middle East, including political Islam and violent extremism.

Israel is the only Middle Eastern state never to oppose America on major international issues. Its fundamental interests, like its values, are America’s. For the price of annual military aid equaling roughly half the cost of one Zumwalt-class destroyer, the United States helps maintain the military might of one of the few nations actively contributing to America’s defense.

http://foreignpolicy...ltimate-ally-2/

Why do you always quote people out of context or snip the bits you don't want to or can't answer?

Docno's post asked, " why--logically speaking--"

[Boon Mee]

Israel is divided just like the US.

Half the country supports what Obama is doing, the other half bellows it's the end of the world and actively interferes in US politics, a la Netn-yahoo appearance for his Republican cronies.

Wrong. 49% of American citizens are against the crazy deal. Only 21% approve. The rest just don't care.

Appeasment in our time...

[tumama]

Israel is divided just like the US.

Half the country supports what Obama is doing, the other half bellows it's the end of the world and actively interferes in US politics, a la Netn-yahoo appearance for his Republican cronies.

Wrong. 49% of American citizens are against the crazy deal. Only 21% approve. The rest just don't care.

What's so crazy about it? You rather have Iran the ability to develop nukes without inspections? Or perhaps you think we should bomb or invade Iran? Sure it worked so well in Iraq, Afganistan, Libya and Syria. Why don't you join the military and get yourself a couple of limbs blown off? Nah, didn't think so.

[tumama]

Sarkozy: "I cannot bear Netanyahu, he's a liar,"

Obama: "You're fed up with him, but I have to deal with him even more often than you,"

[arjunadawn]

"President Barack Obama has repeatedly declared his deep affection for the Jewish state. But the feelings do not appear to be mutual."

Utter garbage. There has been nothing in Obama's deportment toward the Jewish State that suggests affection, or even empathy.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[manarak]

I have difficulties to understand how it's Obama who should be struggling to gain Israel's trust and not the opposite.

As I see it, Israel should be happy it can count on the USA as their super-powerful long time close ally.

[Publicus]

IMO, Obama obtained the required votes to push the agreement (as it stands now) through.because he strong-armed members of his own party into a partisan vote. Most democrats don't blame Netanyahu for promoting his own countries' best interests. Most Americans believe that they are the USA's best interests too.

Netanyahu screwed himself in the Congress when he officially became the new Republican party Senator from Israel. Boehner who invited the new Republican Senator and thereby appointed Netanyahu as such is unpopular across the United States.

Netanyahu and Boehner impelled Democrats in the Congress to Prez Obama with the joint session Netanyahu speech that was carried live on television throughout the United States and globally, to include during a convenient viewing time in Israel. Prez Obama's astute response was to deftly bring to the Congress representatives of the P5+1 governments to meet with Democrats and present the Agreement and to urge the Democrats in the Senate especially to support the Agreement, which is precisely what has happened since.

The Senate last week killed the Republican-Netanyahu legislation to nullify the Agreement and the Senate will kill it again this week..The manner in which the Boehner-Netanyahu axis have opposed the agreement has been unprecedented, extreme, bizarre. Prez Obama owes nothing to either.

The great majority of the Jewish voting public in the United States does in fact support the Agreement and the president. The fact assures Democrats in the Congress can support the commander in chief and do it with the broad support of their Jewish constituents.

It could seem that the longer the extreme absolutist right controls Israel the more difficult relations will be between the two allies. There is no compromise with those people.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Israel is divided just like the US.

Half the country supports what Obama is doing, the other half bellows it's the end of the world and actively interferes in US politics, a la Netn-yahoo appearance for his Republican cronies.

Wrong. 49% of American citizens are against the crazy deal. Only 21% approve. The rest just don't care.

Appeasment in our time...

President Obama will never appease the warmongers.

[tumama]

Israel is divided just like the US.

Half the country supports what Obama is doing, the other half bellows it's the end of the world and actively interferes in US politics, a la Netn-yahoo appearance for his Republican cronies.

Wrong. 49% of American citizens are against the crazy deal. Only 21% approve. The rest just don't care.

Appeasment in our time...

President Obama will never appease the warmongers.

Except when he did with Russia, Syria, Pakistan and Libya.

[chuckd]

Wrong. 49% of American citizens are against the crazy deal. Only 21% approve. The rest just don't care.

Appeasment in our time...

President Obama will never appease the warmongers.

Except when he did with Russia, Syria, Pakistan and Libya.

"President Obama will never appease the warmongers."

The treaty he just signed with Iran would seem to disprove your argument.

[Jingthing]

Let's hope it works. I wouldn't bet the house on that.

[Publicus]

Appeasment in our time...

President Obama will never appease the warmongers.

Except when he did with Russia, Syria, Pakistan and Libya.

"President Obama will never appease the warmongers."

The treaty he just signed with Iran would seem to disprove your argument.

Wrong.

Again.

Don't think also anyone is calling it a legal, formal 'treaty' although it has been getting the kind of treatment in the Congress a treaty normally gets, the two-thirds here and there stuff. As an Executive Agreement it can be modified by a successor president but you know all of this already, so you're not just slipping up here....You yourself conceded when the Agreement was, um, agreed, that Prez Obama would defeat the opponents in Congress. Anyone could see that at the time, and it has turned out exactly in Prez Obama's favor. Sort of a legacy stamp if you will (which you wont, so cheers).

It is more than clear that the issue is settled and that it is yet another loss for the warmongers on the right, in both the USA and throughout Israel. The newest Republican Senator, the one from Israel, has taken a big and hard whop to the gut on this one. So anyway, if the rightwing mass of well funded media have any other silliness they've cooked up, I have a great confidence you'd be the first to let us know, or at the least among the first.

[Publicus]

Let's hope it works. I wouldn't bet the house on that.

Bibi has bet his whole country against it.

Bibi and perhaps Israel itself are in a dire need of treatment for their gambling affliction which sooner or later is going to lead to ruin. It is a wild and reckless compulsion they suffer so someone needs to intervene over there. And quickly.

[Jingthing]

Let's hope it works. I wouldn't bet the house on that.

Bibi has bet his whole country against it.

Bibi and perhaps Israel itself are in a dire need of treatment for their gambling affliction which sooner or later is going to lead to ruin. It is a wild and reckless compulsion they suffer so someone needs to intervene over there. And quickly.

Israel has legitimate concerns. They are targeted by Iran in proxy wars and Iran's regime is on clear record as being dedicated to ending Israel. Even Obama has agreed that Iran will use part of the billions released to go after Israel. The deal was only about nukes. It wasn't about peace. It's not rocket science to figure out how Iran could still weaponize nukes in a short time with two words: NORTH KOREA.

I realize you're constantly blathering about how Bibi is another U.S. republican senator. No, he isn't. He is the leader of Israel and he has been doing his best to further the interest of Israel. Brilliantly? No.

Personally, as Bibi has dramatically and predictably lost this fight to block the deal, I think it is in Israel's interest now for Bibi to aggressively try to repair relations with Obama. Will he do that? Probably not.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[Publicus]

Let's hope it works. I wouldn't bet the house on that.

Bibi has bet his whole country against it.

Bibi and perhaps Israel itself are in a dire need of treatment for their gambling affliction which sooner or later is going to lead to ruin. It is a wild and reckless compulsion they suffer so someone needs to intervene over there. And quickly.

Israel has legitimate concerns. They are targeted by Iran in proxy wars and Iran's regime is on clear record as being dedicated to ending Israel. Even Obama has agreed that Iran will use part of the billions released to go after Israel. The deal was only about nukes. It wasn't about peace. It's not rocket science to figure out how Iran could still weaponize nukes in a short time with two words: NORTH KOREA.

Israel has always had 100% legitimate concerns and this is yet another set of 'em that has its own particulars.

Israel is safer and better off working with any and every POTUS than against one, any one of 'em. Two nations and their leaders will have their divergences, however, the two allies need to be allies.

The Republican Senator from Israel is not an ally of either the United States or the P5+1. He is highly political and he highly politicises everything and anything. Bibi has to think security, not politics and not personalities.

Recall Prez Bill Clinton's reaction after his first meeting with Netanyahu in the Oval Office, "Who the **** is this guy? Doesn't he know who the ****ing superpower is?"

Netanyahu's problem is that he is certain he's bigger than anyone or anything and that in itself alone threatens Israel's security and the security of the United States itself.