English teaching needs a bottom-up approach: Thai editorial

[aarontendo]

The problem with the Thai education is not enough resources are available, you cannot expect teachers with degrees in literature coming to Thai for 900USD a month when they can get 12 grand in Japan , H.K or at home, in Thai everyone is underpaid and under rated , until a mind set of better education is available the education system will remain stagnant , one direction that could be adopted is to cut back on military spending and divert the money to Education.

Nonsense. There are native English teachers available from India and the Philippines at Thai wages - no problem. Thailand spends a huge amount on education. "For all Thailand’s education problems the one thing that has not been missing is funding. Thailand spends a huge amount on education, equal to 20 per cent of the national budget." http://asiancorrespondent.com/132313/will-thai-juntas-education-ministry-purge-help-raise-teaching-standards/

Best to know what you are talking about before you post.

Do you guys seriously believe what you read in that article? Just for clarification, they state the following:

"Study hours for Thai students are five times more than countries such as the US and Canada where students spend 600-700 hours in classes while Thai students 2,000-3,600 hours."

Yeah, considering a typical school day in the states for a primary aged child would be from 8 AM to 2:30 PM or so....I'd like to see how they figure a Thai student spends 5x more time. Or are they suggesting that Thai students do more studying when they're on site. If so, I'd love to tell the kids at my school who are busily outside spending weeks learning to cheer for sports day, or the days at a time they learn arts, crafts, and basket weaving.

[cmiuc]

There is no seriousness to the English Development. At our schools, the High School English teachers scored A and B level English proficiency. The MOE had each of them take a seminar wherein they told them the answers basically so they can raise their score not their levels.

They spend too much time teaching English in Thai, therefore, you only create a 'lazy' student. I just heard a Thai teacher give his final speaking test...

it went like this...

What your name? (chu arai?)(coach them through the whole session), then allowed them to confer with the other students who are a bit more smarter... that was their final English test, done with Thai and with coaching...

Until they as one member said... Let Singapore rule the teaching as a hub of education... nothing will ever develop in this country in regard to their language ability..

For some reason, most Thais think, "Thai language is the most important language in the world and if you learn another language you will forget everything about your country, your culture, your whole national, religious life... "so that's why we can't learn English or any other language!!! Thai language RULZ! " about the size of this countries issue with English?

Also not staying on track with same teachers and changing them, because they cannot get along well with Farangs and their ideology in teaching, causes a lot of problems... Allowing students who don't want to learn English to evaluate teachers at end of semesters and the year is another killer to foreign teachers.

after probably the longest ever English teaching in the world... it still seems to be such a foreign language to all... progress and stability just is not a happening factor in this country... and we can see this in their political world as well... seems like no leader last more than a year or 2 here...

hopefully... the AEC can bring stability to the area, but doubtful too much pride exists.

[aarontendo]

Ummm, ground control to space cadet. Come in space cadet....

Pay the teachers well, get rid of the visa problems, create a culture where people want to help you.

The educational problems are squarely the issue with Thai teachers, administrators, and the system in which they operate. I hardly see foreign "teachers" as the be-all, end-all solution to educational woes in the country. There are some who would disagree, largely because their livelihood is based on ensuring that their teaching is in demand.

[lostoday]

The problem with the Thai education is not enough resources are available, you cannot expect teachers with degrees in literature coming to Thai for 900USD a month when they can get 12 grand in Japan , H.K or at home, in Thai everyone is underpaid and under rated , until a mind set of better education is available the education system will remain stagnant , one direction that could be adopted is to cut back on military spending and divert the money to Education.

Nonsense. There are native English teachers available from India and the Philippines at Thai wages - no problem. Thailand spends a huge amount on education. "For all Thailand’s education problems the one thing that has not been missing is funding. Thailand spends a huge amount on education, equal to 20 per cent of the national budget." http://asiancorrespondent.com/132313/will-thai-juntas-education-ministry-purge-help-raise-teaching-standards/

Best to know what you are talking about before you post.

And the standards of those "native" speaking teachers from India and Philippines, where English is not the native nor first language is part of the problem.

Indian accents vary massively dependent on which state they're from. India has many many native languages but English isn't one of them. Filipinos speak with a strong accent, use very Americanized English and are not native English speakers either.

You should practice what you preach to others - preferably before you post.

The official languages of the Union Government of the Republic of India are Hindi in the Devanagari script and English.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India

The present constitution, ratified in 1987, designates Filipino and English as joint official languages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_Philippines

What was it you said? "You should practice what you preach to others - preferably before you post."

​Both India and the Philippines host thousands of offices that answer questions in English for Western companies. Thailand has none.

Both India and the Philippines have many degreed teachers available in English at Thai prices.

American English is the preferred English for international business ask any Thai which is easier to learn or understand.

[Jeremy50]

There needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship in one area of Thailand. Education. Hire one from Singapore not Cambridge. One does not need to be a brain trust. Rote learning over and over again learn 100 English words and when that is done learn another 100. Over and over again speak English. Forget the grammar lessons. Speak and understand. Speak with the mouth and understand with computer games in English. Forbid anyone who can't speak and understand at least 200 words in English from teaching.

It is basic. Teach with rote learning until the basics are taught. India and the Philippines get all the outsourced English help lines both countries could supply English speaking teachers for Thai prices.

This is Asia not America. Cheap English teachers are available from native English speakers in Asia.

Given your 'command' of the language, let's hope you are nowhere near a classroom.

[lostoday]

There needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship in one area of Thailand. Education. Hire one from Singapore not Cambridge. One does not need to be a brain trust. Rote learning over and over again learn 100 English words and when that is done learn another 100. Over and over again speak English. Forget the grammar lessons. Speak and understand. Speak with the mouth and understand with computer games in English. Forbid anyone who can't speak and understand at least 200 words in English from teaching.

It is basic. Teach with rote learning until the basics are taught. India and the Philippines get all the outsourced English help lines both countries could supply English speaking teachers for Thai prices.

This is Asia not America. Cheap English teachers are available from native English speakers in Asia.

Given your 'command' of the language, let's hope you are nowhere near a classroom.

Given your flagrant disregard of Thai Visa posting rules let's hope you are nowhere near a Thai Visa post.

[gandalf12]

The problem with the Thai education is not enough resources are available, you cannot expect teachers with degrees in literature coming to Thai for 900USD a month when they can get 12 grand in Japan , H.K or at home, in Thai everyone is underpaid and under rated , until a mind set of better education is available the education system will remain stagnant , one direction that could be adopted is to cut back on military spending and divert the money to Education.

Nonsense. There are native English teachers available from India and the Philippines at Thai wages - no problem. Thailand spends a huge amount on education. "For all Thailand’s education problems the one thing that has not been missing is funding. Thailand spends a huge amount on education, equal to 20 per cent of the national budget." http://asiancorrespondent.com/132313/will-thai-juntas-education-ministry-purge-help-raise-teaching-standards/

Best to know what you are talking about before you post.

If they spend 20% GDP on education what is it going on? Most Thai's have very little or no English. Those that do are far from fluent.

[gandalf12]

Thai workers have a good reputation around the world as being hard working. However, it is their lack of English language skills which lets them down. As an example, the Maori language was dying in New Zealand until in the early 1980s the 'Te Kohanga Reo' scheme was introduced. This literally means 'language nest'. It had been noticed that the older people were still communicating in Maori and that it was rubbing off on the kids and so the programme was born. It had a major effect on the regeneration of the language.

In the same way, I, as a retired farang, would be prepared to help Thai kids if the Immigration Department could turn a blind eye.

Do Thai worker have a good reputation for work? Not in my experience they dont and I have worked with them in SEA and the Middle East. In fact just th opposite. There are exceptions of course but most are lazy

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Thais will learn English when the elite want them to.

Not likely to happen soon as workers from Myanmar and Cambodia already speak better English and can be hired for less.

[anon467367354]

Ummm, ground control to space cadet. Come in space cadet....

Pay the teachers well, get rid of the visa problems, create a culture where people want to help you.

Nope!

As long as you have a system where you have 55 students crammed into one room, everyone is copying off everybody else.

There is so much noise not only in the classroom but in the hallways that one must use a portable loudspeaker and still the students that want

to learn cannot hear you.

What has to change is the behaviour of the students. They don't care, they know they will pass no matter what.

Admin doesn't care to help unless the students are a part of the EP program because those parents paid therefore said students are considered more valuable.

You can pay the teachers a million baht a month, but this culture still won't want you because you are not Thai and you actually don't belong here.

The more you make the more resentment it generates from the educated Thai professional vs the uneducated native speakers.

Equality is where it's at. If you want to live and work here, then there should be no visa special requirements, but you do earn what the others earn.

No Thai teacher in the US or UK is going to make 2 or 3 times what an American or Brit makes just for being a native speaker.

Equality is the key. We should be able to live here, we should have no visa issues, we should have a "green" card to pay our share of the taxes.

Stop comparing wages in the west to those here, that makes you a temp or substitute and you really can't be taken seriously.

[Rimmer]

A Troll post adding nothing to the topic has been removed

[lostoday]

The problem with the Thai education is not enough resources are available, you cannot expect teachers with degrees in literature coming to Thai for 900USD a month when they can get 12 grand in Japan , H.K or at home, in Thai everyone is underpaid and under rated , until a mind set of better education is available the education system will remain stagnant , one direction that could be adopted is to cut back on military spending and divert the money to Education.

Nonsense. There are native English teachers available from India and the Philippines at Thai wages - no problem. Thailand spends a huge amount on education. "For all Thailand’s education problems the one thing that has not been missing is funding. Thailand spends a huge amount on education, equal to 20 per cent of the national budget." http://asiancorrespondent.com/132313/will-thai-juntas-education-ministry-purge-help-raise-teaching-standards/

Best to know what you are talking about before you post.

If they spend 20% GDP on education what is it going on? Most Thai's have very little or no English. Those that do are far from fluent.

English is only one subject and not very important in the Thai nature of things. They all can dance very well and bend their fingers backwards though. English opens up the INTERNET and the INTERNET opens up the world. Thais are still stuck into thinking that crop rotation on a small family farm is the way to save the economy. That was a hot topic in 1500 I think.

Edited September 16, 2015 by lostoday

[anon467367354]

Thais will learn English when the elite want them to.

Not likely to happen soon as workers from Myanmar and Cambodia already speak better English and can be hired for less.

you can lead a horse to water etc etc etc but they won't learn because they haven't.

The people of Myanmar and Cambodia and Vietnam already speak English far better than the Thai and they (the Thai) know it.

[eldragon]

Might want to start with the general attitude towards learning and using English. Last month the PM had to defend himself against accusations of being pretentious for creating an English language hashtag. University students that major in English are embarrassed to use it. Kids that are learning it are afraid of making mistakes. Etc.

[Jeremy50]

There needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship in one area of Thailand. Education. Hire one from Singapore not Cambridge. One does not need to be a brain trust. Rote learning over and over again learn 100 English words and when that is done learn another 100. Over and over again speak English. Forget the grammar lessons. Speak and understand. Speak with the mouth and understand with computer games in English. Forbid anyone who can't speak and understand at least 200 words in English from teaching.

It is basic. Teach with rote learning until the basics are taught. India and the Philippines get all the outsourced English help lines both countries could supply English speaking teachers for Thai prices.

This is Asia not America. Cheap English teachers are available from native English speakers in Asia.

Given your 'command' of the language, let's hope you are nowhere near a classroom.

Given your flagrant disregard of Thai Visa posting rules let's hope you are nowhere near a Thai Visa post.

The topic is about how to improve the standard of English Teaching in Thai schools, and the current failings in that task. And here you are pontificating about how Asian English speakers can do the job of teaching English to Thai students as well as, or even better than an educated native speaker can. Unfortunately you don't seem to realize that your own post is littered with basic errors, and is barely comprehensible. Can you not see the sad irony in that?

[kingalfred]

There needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship in one area of Thailand. Education. Hire one from Singapore not Cambridge. One does not need to be a brain trust. Rote learning over and over again learn 100 English words and when that is done learn another 100. Over and over again speak English. Forget the grammar lessons. Speak and understand. Speak with the mouth and understand with computer games in English. Forbid anyone who can't speak and understand at least 200 words in English from teaching.

It is basic. Teach with rote learning until the basics are taught. India and the Philippines get all the outsourced English help lines both countries could supply English speaking teachers for Thai prices.

This is Asia not America. Cheap English teachers are available from native English speakers in Asia.

Given your 'command' of the language, let's hope you are nowhere near a classroom.

Given your flagrant disregard of Thai Visa posting rules let's hope you are nowhere near a Thai Visa post.

The topic is about how to improve the standard of English Teaching in Thai schools, and the current failings in that task. And here you are pontificating about how Asian English speakers can do the job of teaching English to Thai students as well as, or even better than an educated native speaker can. Unfortunately you don't seem to realize that your own post is littered with basic errors, and is barely comprehensible. Can you not see the sad irony in that?

I doubt he/she does. Just another moron on TV.

[Crazy chef 1]

Guys you forget one paramount thing...any language has to be practiced or it will be diminished...sometimes it is even difficult for the first few minutes to speak in my native language due of lack of practise...and when does the average Thai need to communicate in English on a daily base???

[Soutpeel]

There needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship in one area of Thailand. Education. Hire one from Singapore not Cambridge. One does not need to be a brain trust. Rote learning over and over again learn 100 English words and when that is done learn another 100. Over and over again speak English. Forget the grammar lessons. Speak and understand. Speak with the mouth and understand with computer games in English. Forbid anyone who can't speak and understand at least 200 words in English from teaching.

It is basic. Teach with rote learning until the basics are taught. India and the Philippines get all the outsourced English help lines both countries could supply English speaking teachers for Thai prices.

This is Asia not America. Cheap English teachers are available from native English speakers in Asia.

Given your 'command' of the language, let's hope you are nowhere near a classroom.

Given your flagrant disregard of Thai Visa posting rules let's hope you are nowhere near a Thai Visa post.

The topic is about how to improve the standard of English Teaching in Thai schools, and the current failings in that task. And here you are pontificating about how Asian English speakers can do the job of teaching English to Thai students as well as, or even better than an educated native speaker can. Unfortunately you don't seem to realize that your own post is littered with basic errors, and is barely comprehensible. Can you not see the sad irony in that?

But there in is one of the problems " educated native speakers"

1 most "teachers" are not properly educated

2. They are not real teachers

3. The only reason they are teaching is they want to stay in Thailand can't get a job and use "teaching" to support their holiday life style

Rather than employing some backpacker who can't tie his shoe laces without asking mummy to "teach" they would be better getting some real teachers in Thailand who can mentor and develop the current Thai English teachers

[Time Traveller]

Bottom up approach? Well that would be a change from the numerous Thai Crack-downs?

[NOC]

There needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship in one area of Thailand. Education. Hire one from Singapore not Cambridge. One does not need to be a brain trust. Rote learning over and over again learn 100 English words and when that is done learn another 100. Over and over again speak English. Forget the grammar lessons. Speak and understand. Speak with the mouth and understand with computer games in English. Forbid anyone who can't speak and understand at least 200 words in English from teaching.

It is basic. Teach with rote learning until the basics are taught. India and the Philippines get all the outsourced English help lines both countries could supply English speaking teachers for Thai prices.

This is Asia not America. Cheap English teachers are available from native English speakers in Asia.

Indians and Philipinos, working under a totalitarian dictatorship? I can't see it.

Rote learning? The brain of a child works at a different frequency than that of an adult. Their like sponges, soaking up everything they can find. At this stage of life you need lots of language input, and the development and use of the imagination. You need other things, too. Rote learning creates lifeless drones and gives control to those in power.

[lostoday]

There needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship in one area of Thailand. Education. Hire one from Singapore not Cambridge. One does not need to be a brain trust. Rote learning over and over again learn 100 English words and when that is done learn another 100. Over and over again speak English. Forget the grammar lessons. Speak and understand. Speak with the mouth and understand with computer games in English. Forbid anyone who can't speak and understand at least 200 words in English from teaching.

It is basic. Teach with rote learning until the basics are taught. India and the Philippines get all the outsourced English help lines both countries could supply English speaking teachers for Thai prices.

This is Asia not America. Cheap English teachers are available from native English speakers in Asia.

Indians and Philipinos, working under a totalitarian dictatorship? I can't see it.

Rote learning? The brain of a child works at a different frequency than that of an adult. Their like sponges, soaking up everything they can find. At this stage of life you need lots of language input, and the development and use of the imagination. You need other things, too. Rote learning creates lifeless drones and gives control to those in power.

Indians and Philippines supply the majority of workers to Saudi Arabia don't they? Rote learning is how 99% of the basics of education is taught. How did you learn addition, subtraction, times tables, the months, chemical elements? I've noticed that people who know little about rote learning rarely have a degree. You would not think that would you? 30 days hath September.

Edited September 16, 2015 by lostoday

[silent]

Great to finally read the basic truth come out. There are many solutions once we acknowledge that most teachers simply cannot speak English. Hiring univ of Cambridge is a waste of money. don't just pass off the responsibility to that bunch of chuckleheads.

Oh, but don't they need to be able to impress people later in life with the fact that they first learned the words to sing a song in English, from someone that has a University degree.

Ultimately the answer to getting around most knowing only enough English to be dangerous, would be Einstein English language pill that I think Phizer Pharmaceutical might be releasing in the next century or so.

Short of that would be an attitude adjustment scheme from "We already know more than you do as evidenced by the fact that you can't even speak Thai", to maybe we're not a third world country anymore with our technology, but we're still really only playing catch up with what most people have known for years in the world outside.

As their great leaders might say, first there must be acceptance of oneself and the problem as a whole. Only then will there be improvement.

[lostoday]

There needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship in one area of Thailand. Education. Hire one from Singapore not Cambridge. One does not need to be a brain trust. Rote learning over and over again learn 100 English words and when that is done learn another 100. Over and over again speak English. Forget the grammar lessons. Speak and understand. Speak with the mouth and understand with computer games in English. Forbid anyone who can't speak and understand at least 200 words in English from teaching.

It is basic. Teach with rote learning until the basics are taught. India and the Philippines get all the outsourced English help lines both countries could supply English speaking teachers for Thai prices.

This is Asia not America. Cheap English teachers are available from native English speakers in Asia.

Given your 'command' of the language, let's hope you are nowhere near a classroom.

Given your flagrant disregard of Thai Visa posting rules let's hope you are nowhere near a Thai Visa post.

The topic is about how to improve the standard of English Teaching in Thai schools, and the current failings in that task. And here you are pontificating about how Asian English speakers can do the job of teaching English to Thai students as well as, or even better than an educated native speaker can. Unfortunately you don't seem to realize that your own post is littered with basic errors, and is barely comprehensible. Can you not see the sad irony in that?

What's sad is you don't know the difference between speaking and writing. What, drop out of school? English grammar can be completely dropped in the Thai education system and concentrate on speaking English for an improvement.

Communication is important. It is obvious you are not a teacher or you would realize this. Did you understand what I said? Of course you did. You are simply a grammar nazi of which the world and Thai Visa has too many of hence the prohibition against correcting grammar and spelling on Thai Visa.

[Honkeydog]

kids i see spend more time on video games. So create a video game to teach English. Make it mandatory in school and you have a winner.

[lostoday]

But there in is one of the problems " educated native speakers"

1 most "teachers" are not properly educated

2. They are not real teachers

3. The only reason they are teaching is they want to stay in Thailand can't get a job and use "teaching" to support their holiday life style

Rather than employing some backpacker who can't tie his shoe laces without asking mummy to "teach" they would be better getting some real teachers in Thailand who can mentor and develop the current Thai English teachers

Do you realize how little a degree in education gives one? When I was in school the department of Education toned down all the subjects so teachers could pass. Like, biology for elementary education majors as opposed to biology for everyone else.

It does not take a brain trust to teach Thai children 100 words of English and that would be a 100% improvement over what they learn now. Thai English teachers can't say 100 words in English let alone their students!

Edited September 16, 2015 by lostoday

[MrJohnson]

I went for an interview at a 'prestigious' university not so long ago. The lady said she was very impressed with my CV and I was just what she was looking for. When I told her my expected salary (which really wasn't high) she balked and said "We can find someone for less than that, you know?"

And that's the moral of the story. Schools would love to employ the right candidates but are simply not willing to pay the extra. They'd rather pay a few thousand less a month and continue with crappy teachers and high turn around.

The parents really need to start complaining about the money they pay and the very little they get in return. Parents should be enraged to see directors driving Mercs to school and not f****** wying them .

you pay peanuts, you get monkeys - that and the fact that too many people, not just politicians but teachers, parents and employers are looking for a quick, one-dimensional fix. There is no doubt that many teachers are poorly qualified to teach English. This is the first thing that needs to be addressed. Remedial English and then remedial teaching skills. That takes time and money. Then look at the materials that are being used to teach English, the amount of time devoted to the teaching of English and then add into the mix the use of online materials and opportunities for students to practice. This issue needs a coordinated, integrated and well-funded strategy. Hardly likely to get that here I'm afraid.

[lostoday]

I went for an interview at a 'prestigious' university not so long ago. The lady said she was very impressed with my CV and I was just what she was looking for. When I told her my expected salary (which really wasn't high) she balked and said "We can find someone for less than that, you know?"

And that's the moral of the story. Schools would love to employ the right candidates but are simply not willing to pay the extra. They'd rather pay a few thousand less a month and continue with crappy teachers and high turn around.

The parents really need to start complaining about the money they pay and the very little they get in return. Parents should be enraged to see directors driving Mercs to school and not f****** wying them .

you pay peanuts, you get monkeys - that and the fact that too many people, not just politicians but teachers, parents and employers are looking for a quick, one-dimensional fix. There is no doubt that many teachers are poorly qualified to teach English. This is the first thing that needs to be addressed. Remedial English and then remedial teaching skills. That takes time and money. Then look at the materials that are being used to teach English, the amount of time devoted to the teaching of English and then add into the mix the use of online materials and opportunities for students to practice. This issue needs a coordinated, integrated and well-funded strategy. Hardly likely to get that here I'm afraid.

Why, many teachers with adequate English are available from Africa, Philippines and India for what we in the West would call peanuts?

Hire them give them a list of 100 words and tell them, "go get em and start with the Thai English teachers."

[arfurcrown]

Just as a point of interest lostoday.

Are you a qualified teacher with a licence to teach here in Thailand and or also a U.K, Q.T..S. and or its equivalent from other countries in the world.

I hold such qualifications as do a good many others here do..

English is not the only subject taught here using the English language as the medium of instruction you know.

[jvs]

I have traveled a lot all over this planet and when i speak to some one i do not really care if they know how to spell correctly.

I we can understand each other the job is done,there are lots of native speakers from the UK who i can not understand because their accent is so bad.

Not easy for a Thai to listen to Farangs who all have a different accent,no wonder a lot of people are scared to talk to foreigners.It is not always the Thais,a lot of time it is the Farang

who comes up short.

Somehow the students have to want to speak English,make it a cool language so they want to use it.

Before the spelling mafia jumps in,i am not a native speaker but i can hold a conversation and i believe that should be the main objective in schools to start with.

The attitude of the students toward the language has to change most of all.

[MaxLee]

Didn't read......