Do you gear up to commute

[soihok]

The fact he was wearing shorts and vest was probably the result of no skin left on his limbs.

I didn't want to hang around, he was being attended to by the motorists in the crash. Looked nasty though.

[VocalNeal]

Skateboard knee and elbow pads are cheap for those of you who opt for shorts.

[Furryman]

Shorts and flip flops and half helmet here, though I don't commute. Switching to Vans soon as I'm getting a real bike I'll have to shift. Maybe some Crocs

Looking into a denim coverall for long trips, for sun and road dirt protection.

Yeah I know in a wreck I have a greater chance of injury, but that is my choice. I don't make anyone else less safe because of my lack of riding gear, unlike those with full gear flying down the road at speeds far beyond anything safe, endangering all around them.

[macknife]

This Monday evening here in Singapore, on my way home from work on the SLE (a three lane highway).I went passed an accident with 4 cars rear shunted and the first car had a Honda 400 under it.

Sat on the kerb in the middle of the road was a very distressed young man in shorts, a vest and blood streaming from his arms and legs.

Not nice.

I need to get some better protection for my legs.

Open face helmets = goodbye lower jaw and teeth in a bad smash.

If he was run over by a car, body armour/leg protection won't help...you can't argue with a car.

An open face helmet may have helped him hear/feel the car coming, maybe..but jaw protection at bicycle speeds is a waste of time.

Now if you are riding/touring at speed, I would say full-face every time, along with leather/Kevlar and decent boots/gloves, it is horses for courses.

Around the big bad city you need all you senses to the max and you will even see the guys who have combi helmets have them opened up in the busy traffic.

You may choose not to wear a full face helmet, but please stop trying to tell others it's a waste of time etc

There are some new riders on here that may follow your advice before they are experienced enough to make their own choice.

Firstly statistics prove that a fullface helmet in an accident is far better. You mention bicycle speeds but even scooters travel way faster than a bicycle. Anyway smashing your chin of the tarmac can be pretty nasty even if you were just standing up and simply fell over, never mind travelling at 40kph.

Secondly, you think it increases your senses? All you hear is wind noise, Between 30 and 40 kph, wind noise starts to exceed the average noise produced by an approaching vehicle, so in fact, an open face helmet lessens your hearing of other vehicles around you. A full face helmet actually greatly lessens wind noise enabling one to hear what's going on around them better.

Finally, I have a combi helmet and I never open it just because I'm travelling through busy traffic, and I have never seen anyone else do it either, The only time I see people with combi helmets with the front up is when they are stationary,

So Allen carry on wearing what you like, your excuses for wearing one (coz that's what they are, excuses) are your own, but don't endanger other people by saying a fullface helmet is a waste of time at lower speeds or even dangerous.

[maykilceksin]

Shorts and flip flops and half helmet here, though I don't commute. Switching to Vans soon as I'm getting a real bike I'll have to shift. Maybe some Crocs

Looking into a denim coverall for long trips, for sun and road dirt protection.

Yeah I know in a wreck I have a greater chance of injury, but that is my choice. I don't make anyone else less safe because of my lack of riding gear, unlike those with full gear flying down the road at speeds far beyond anything safe, endangering all around them.

why you think and reason others?

it is your head and body when you crash down! forget about others.

it is all about protecting yourself from danger first not about making people around less or more safe.

or do you think it is a good 'choice' to break your head on the pavement in case of an accident?

so maybe you think you dont create danger for others which i dont think so; if you dont gear up, it means you dont know what you are doing and how to calculate risks in your life. so it makes me start to think you might not even know the traffic rules or maybe even dont know how to ride a bike properly. This is the impression you gave me although you might be a clever guy or a super duper rider.

guys running with full gear sure running much more safer than you and know what they are doing and how did you calculate their speed? do you go around with a Radar?

[pokerkid]

Shorts and flip flops and half helmet here, though I don't commute. Switching to Vans soon as I'm getting a real bike I'll have to shift. Maybe some Crocs

Looking into a denim coverall for long trips, for sun and road dirt protection.

Yeah I know in a wreck I have a greater chance of injury, but that is my choice. I don't make anyone else less safe because of my lack of riding gear, unlike those with full gear flying down the road at speeds far beyond anything safe, endangering all around them.

why you think and reason others?

it is your head and body when you crash down! forget about others.

it is all about protecting yourself from danger first not about making people around less or more safe.

or do you think it is a good 'choice' to break your head on the pavement in case of an accident?

so maybe you think you dont create danger for others which i dont think so; if you dont gear up, it means you dont know what you are doing and how to calculate risks in your life. so it makes me start to think you might not even know the traffic rules or maybe even dont know how to ride a bike properly. This is the impression you gave me although you might be a clever guy or a super duper rider.

guys running with full gear sure running much more safer than you and know what they are doing and how did you calculate their speed? do you go around with a Radar?

" if you dont gear up, it means you dont know what you are doing and how to calculate risks in your life"

Why don't you tell that to Andrea Iannone. He knows when its time to gear up and when not to.

Edited September 25, 2015 by pokerkid

[AllanB]

This Monday evening here in Singapore, on my way home from work on the SLE (a three lane highway).I went passed an accident with 4 cars rear shunted and the first car had a Honda 400 under it.

Sat on the kerb in the middle of the road was a very distressed young man in shorts, a vest and blood streaming from his arms and legs.

Not nice.

I need to get some better protection for my legs.

Open face helmets = goodbye lower jaw and teeth in a bad smash.

If he was run over by a car, body armour/leg protection won't help...you can't argue with a car.

An open face helmet may have helped him hear/feel the car coming, maybe..but jaw protection at bicycle speeds is a waste of time.

Now if you are riding/touring at speed, I would say full-face every time, along with leather/Kevlar and decent boots/gloves, it is horses for courses.

Around the big bad city you need all you senses to the max and you will even see the guys who have combi helmets have them opened up in the busy traffic.

You may choose not to wear a full face helmet, but please stop trying to tell others it's a waste of time etc

There are some new riders on here that may follow your advice before they are experienced enough to make their own choice.

Firstly statistics prove that a fullface helmet in an accident is far better. You mention bicycle speeds but even scooters travel way faster than a bicycle. Anyway smashing your chin of the tarmac can be pretty nasty even if you were just standing up and simply fell over, never mind travelling at 40kph.

Secondly, you think it increases your senses? All you hear is wind noise, Between 30 and 40 kph, wind noise starts to exceed the average noise produced by an approaching vehicle, so in fact, an open face helmet lessens your hearing of other vehicles around you. A full face helmet actually greatly lessens wind noise enabling one to hear what's going on around them better.

Finally, I have a combi helmet and I never open it just because I'm travelling through busy traffic, and I have never seen anyone else do it either, The only time I see people with combi helmets with the front up is when they are stationary,

So Allen carry on wearing what you like, your excuses for wearing one (coz that's what they are, excuses) are your own, but don't endanger other people by saying a fullface helmet is a waste of time at lower speeds or even dangerous.

You are so blinkered by one single statistic and your particular riding style, you don't look at the bigger picture and, more importantly you don't actually read the topic, nor my reply. We are talking about bicycle speeds, not tearing down the road at 120+mph.

I crashed my pushbike a hundred times as a kid and a no time did I damage my mouth; my knees, elbows and hands, yes. The guys doing the Tour de France wearing simple scull-caps, have accidents all the time and never do they damage their jaws and they are often travelling faster than these commuting speeds.

I will repeat, if you want to scream around on your bike, then you are better off with a FF helmet and when I go touring on my big bike, I will too. But the better option around town is an open face helmet, so do try to keep up with the topic.

All this cobblers about wind noise drowning out all other sounds does not relate to this topic as there is no wind noise riding through a town/city at these speeds.

[Furryman]

Shorts and flip flops and half helmet here, though I don't commute. Switching to Vans soon as I'm getting a real bike I'll have to shift. Maybe some Crocs

Looking into a denim coverall for long trips, for sun and road dirt protection.

Yeah I know in a wreck I have a greater chance of injury, but that is my choice. I don't make anyone else less safe because of my lack of riding gear, unlike those with full gear flying down the road at speeds far beyond anything safe, endangering all around them.

why you think and reason others?

it is your head and body when you crash down! forget about others.

it is all about protecting yourself from danger first not about making people around less or more safe.

or do you think it is a good 'choice' to break your head on the pavement in case of an accident?

so maybe you think you dont create danger for others which i dont think so; if you dont gear up, it means you dont know what you are doing and how to calculate risks in your life. so it makes me start to think you might not even know the traffic rules or maybe even dont know how to ride a bike properly. This is the impression you gave me although you might be a clever guy or a super duper rider.

guys running with full gear sure running much more safer than you and know what they are doing and how did you calculate their speed? do you go around with a Radar?

" if you dont gear up, it means you dont know what you are doing and how to calculate risks in your life"

Why don't you tell that to Andrea Iannone. He knows when its time to gear up and when not to.

Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

You can make assumptions about me from one bit of information if you choose. I could make assumptions about you because of your less than perfect English, but that would be acting like a dick, and I try not to do that.

Why would I be concerned about the other people who share the road with me? Because I'm a decent human being who understands that I have no right to put others in danger.

But, FWIW, I will say this; I am about to turn 50 and I have been riding since I was 14. I have had some spills, some with gear, some without. I also drove ambulances as an EMT for a while. These and other experiences have brought me to my current opinion on wearing safety gear. And yes, I am licensed.

Finally, one does not need to calculate someones speed to know if they are driving too fast for the conditions. Take for example the recent Facebook video of the kid who ate shit in the rain and then so 'gallantly' held onto his passenger. The minute I saw that video I knew he was going too fast, long before I heard anything about how fast he was actually going. That he was going too fast is self evident.

[AllanB]

Actaually Macknife, I am guilty of not fully reading your reply either....

"Anyway smashing your chin of the tarmac can be pretty nasty even if you were just standing up and simply fell over, never mind travelling at 40kph". How the hell can you land on your chin falling over while standing up, is this some kind of drug you are on?

"A full face helmet actually greatly lessens wind noise." There is another more probable explanation, the FF helmet has more sound insulation with you head completely encased in plastic. which kind of proves one of my points.

"All you hear is wind noise, Between 30 and 40 kph," rubbish! significant wind noise starts at around 80-100kph. You are clutching at straws here son....unless you are riding around on the top of a skyscraper in Chicago.

"Finally, I have a combi helmet and I never open it just because I'm travelling through busy traffic, and I have never seen anyone else," that may be because you didn't notice them with you head in a plastic bucket.

[soihok]

Calm down guys.

Horses for courses.

Each to their own.

After my experiences I know what is best for me.

[macknife]

Actaually Macknife, I am guilty of not fully reading your reply either....

"Anyway smashing your chin of the tarmac can be pretty nasty even if you were just standing up and simply fell over, never mind travelling at 40kph". How the hell can you land on your chin falling over while standing up, is this some kind of drug you are on?

"A full face helmet actually greatly lessens wind noise." There is another more probable explanation, the FF helmet has more sound insulation with you head completely encased in plastic. which kind of proves one of my points.

"All you hear is wind noise, Between 30 and 40 kph," rubbish! significant wind noise starts at around 80-100kph. You are clutching at straws here son....unless you are riding around on the top of a skyscraper in Chicago.

"Finally, I have a combi helmet and I never open it just because I'm travelling through busy traffic, and I have never seen anyone else," that may be because you didn't notice them with you head in a plastic bucket.

Yes it is unlikely, nevertheless it proves that smashing your face at any speed is never good, so having protection there is, as you suggest, never a waste of time.There is little doubt a full-face lid is safer in a crash. crash statistics say the chin bar area hits the ground in 19.4% of crashes!

I'll group points 2 and 3 together. A simple google on wind noise and bikes will bring up several articles. Most talk more about the long term effects on your hearing but also include some interesting points. Some quotes below, all from different sources: note these are not high speeds but scooter speeds.

Below 30mph, machine, exhaust and environmental noises are heard. Once speeds exceed approximately 30mph, wind noise dominates completely.

findings debunk claims by anti-helmet campaigners that full face motorcycle helmets are a danger because they make it more difficult to hear important traffic noises and warning signals.

Between 15 and 20 mph, wind noise starts to exceed the average noise produced by an approaching vehicle.

At speeds above 30mph speed noise gets much louder than vehicle noise.

I could go on.

I'll not bother with your fourth point. Like I said, what you wear is up to you, but don't try and suggest to others that a fullface helmet is a waste of time at scooter speeds or imply that a fullface helmet is potentially dangerous.

[AllanB]

Actaually Macknife, I am guilty of not fully reading your reply either....

"Anyway smashing your chin of the tarmac can be pretty nasty even if you were just standing up and simply fell over, never mind travelling at 40kph". How the hell can you land on your chin falling over while standing up, is this some kind of drug you are on?

"A full face helmet actually greatly lessens wind noise." There is another more probable explanation, the FF helmet has more sound insulation with you head completely encased in plastic. which kind of proves one of my points.

"All you hear is wind noise, Between 30 and 40 kph," rubbish! significant wind noise starts at around 80-100kph. You are clutching at straws here son....unless you are riding around on the top of a skyscraper in Chicago.

"Finally, I have a combi helmet and I never open it just because I'm travelling through busy traffic, and I have never seen anyone else," that may be because you didn't notice them with you head in a plastic bucket.

Yes it is unlikely, nevertheless it proves that smashing your face at any speed is never good, so having protection there is, as you suggest, never a waste of time.There is little doubt a full-face lid is safer in a crash. crash statistics say the chin bar area hits the ground in 19.4% of crashes!

I'll group points 2 and 3 together. A simple google on wind noise and bikes will bring up several articles. Most talk more about the long term effects on your hearing but also include some interesting points. Some quotes below, all from different sources: note these are not high speeds but scooter speeds.

Below 30mph, machine, exhaust and environmental noises are heard. Once speeds exceed approximately 30mph, wind noise dominates completely.

findings debunk claims by anti-helmet campaigners that full face motorcycle helmets are a danger because they make it more difficult to hear important traffic noises and warning signals.

Between 15 and 20 mph, wind noise starts to exceed the average noise produced by an approaching vehicle.

At speeds above 30mph speed noise gets much louder than vehicle noise.

I could go on.

I'll not bother with your fourth point. Like I said, what you wear is up to you, but don't try and suggest to others that a fullface helmet is a waste of time at scooter speeds or imply that a fullface helmet is potentially dangerous.

I just rode back from town at 60kph and I could clearly hear myself fart, even though a stationary guy in a FF helmet, I passed didn't hear a thing.

19.4% of which sort of crashes? High speed ones, no doubt. As I said, I crashed hundreds of times on my pushbike and I still have the perfect profile.

As I said before the aforementioned fart was far louder than any other form of wind noise, so you must have something wrong with your helmet IYPTE, a crack perhaps?

I didn't say a FF helmet was a waste of time at all, I said you would be "better off" with an open face helmet at "bicycle speeds", so don't twist my words. The guys on scooters around here need a Ned Kelly helmet, the speeds they ride.

Does "slightly less safe" imply "potentially dangerous", I think you should become a politician......no, I apologise unreservedly for that outrageous comment. That implies you are a lying war mongering crook.

This is a case of horses for courses...........

[macknife]

Actaually Macknife, I am guilty of not fully reading your reply either....

"Anyway smashing your chin of the tarmac can be pretty nasty even if you were just standing up and simply fell over, never mind travelling at 40kph". How the hell can you land on your chin falling over while standing up, is this some kind of drug you are on?

"A full face helmet actually greatly lessens wind noise." There is another more probable explanation, the FF helmet has more sound insulation with you head completely encased in plastic. which kind of proves one of my points.

"All you hear is wind noise, Between 30 and 40 kph," rubbish! significant wind noise starts at around 80-100kph. You are clutching at straws here son....unless you are riding around on the top of a skyscraper in Chicago.

"Finally, I have a combi helmet and I never open it just because I'm travelling through busy traffic, and I have never seen anyone else," that may be because you didn't notice them with you head in a plastic bucket.

Yes it is unlikely, nevertheless it proves that smashing your face at any speed is never good, so having protection there is, as you suggest, never a waste of time.There is little doubt a full-face lid is safer in a crash. crash statistics say the chin bar area hits the ground in 19.4% of crashes!

I'll group points 2 and 3 together. A simple google on wind noise and bikes will bring up several articles. Most talk more about the long term effects on your hearing but also include some interesting points. Some quotes below, all from different sources: note these are not high speeds but scooter speeds.

Below 30mph, machine, exhaust and environmental noises are heard. Once speeds exceed approximately 30mph, wind noise dominates completely.

findings debunk claims by anti-helmet campaigners that full face motorcycle helmets are a danger because they make it more difficult to hear important traffic noises and warning signals.

Between 15 and 20 mph, wind noise starts to exceed the average noise produced by an approaching vehicle.

At speeds above 30mph speed noise gets much louder than vehicle noise.

I could go on.

I'll not bother with your fourth point. Like I said, what you wear is up to you, but don't try and suggest to others that a fullface helmet is a waste of time at scooter speeds or imply that a fullface helmet is potentially dangerous.

19.4% of which sort of crashes? High speed ones, no doubt. As I said, I crashed hundreds of times on my pushbike and I still have the perfect profile.

I didn't say a FF helmet was a waste of time at all, I said you would be "better off" with an open face helmet at "bicycle speeds", so don't twist my words. The guys on scooters around here need a Ned Kelly helmet, the speeds they ride.

Does "slightly less safe" imply "potentially dangerous", I think you should become a politician......no, I apologise unreservedly for that outrageous comment. That implies you are a lying war mongering crook.

This is a case of horses for courses...........

19.4% of all crashes. You've crashed 'hundreds' of times on your pushbike really? Lucky you still have that perfect profile.

I'll just quote you then, it's on this page. "An open face helmet may have helped him hear/feel the car coming, maybe..but jaw protection at bicycle speeds is a waste of time."

You implied that a man possibly had an accident because he wore a fullface helmet and that an open faced helmet would maybe have helped him hear the approaching vehicle better. I'll give you that you didn't exactly say it was dangerous but it is implied. Also you did say that a full face helmet (Jaw protection) is a waste of time or do you really think the people on a scooter always drive less than 30kph?

All I'm saying is, it's a myth that you hear more by not wearing a fullface helmet, the fact is you hear less and when crashing at any speed, a fullface will always be better.

I'm out.

[taninthai]

Less protection is never better no matter what speed or conditions Allan,so your statement quoted below is rubbish.

Better off" with an open face helmet at "bicycle speeds",

You could be completely stationary and another vehicle hit you at 100 kmr.please wake up one minuite your tell you tell us you ride with your brain then you come out with this rubbish.I don't care what you what you wear but please don't come out with craps like this to try and justify your poor descisions.",

Edited September 25, 2015 by taninthai

[puukao]

They actually renamed my commute "Tour De France"

signed,

Chuck Norris

[Still Living]

Open face is fine for "bicycle speeds" unless this happens.

http://youtu.be/B68Jxk3CjP4

I wear a full face and gloves even when riding a scooter around town. May seem excessive but I like my face and I use my hands for a lot of things.

[wantan]

Allan, 60kmh isnt "bicycle speed". I went down with maybe 50kmh and i wasnt able to control any of my movements. Without fullface i may would still suffer from injuries. Dont tell me you can avoid hitting the street with your chin at 60kmh.

I respect your decision to wear a open face. Good you wear a helmet. The only time i wear an open face is when riding to the park for sports. After 5km running in the heat i am not able to wear full face

[Furryman]

Open face is fine for "bicycle speeds" unless this happens.

I wear a full face and gloves even when riding a scooter around town. May seem excessive but I like my face and I use my hands for a lot of things.

So if the two who were run down and crushed between the stopped car and the out of control truck were wearing full face helmets, they would have looked better at their funerals. Does not seem to be a very relevant argument. Edited September 26, 2015 by Furryman

[AllanB]

Less protection is never better no matter what speed or conditions Allan,so your statement quoted below is rubbish.

Better off" with an open face helmet at "bicycle speeds",

You could be completely stationary and another vehicle hit you at 100 kmr.please wake up one minuite your tell you tell us you ride with your brain then you come out with this rubbish.I don't care what you what you wear but please don't come out with craps like this to try and justify your poor descisions.",

Another guy who has joined the argument with a stupid statement, what has being hit while stationary anything to do with this argument? You really think having a full face helmet on will save you or make you suffer any fewer injuries, when being hit up the arse at 100kph..you are either dead, or bloody lucky... At least with your senses unimpaired you might actually hear, see, or sense, it coming and jump off... a long shot I know, but I said you would need to be lucky.

Why do you think all major manufacturers make both types, because they wish to put at risk 98% of their customers? It is because they understand the statement "horses for courses" and that one is safer than the other, in different situations. If any of them thought as you do, they would recall all their open face helmets claiming "we only sell really safe helmets".

Why do you think they make combi helmets, just so you can lift the lid at the traffic lights to smoke a fag? It is to give you the best of both worlds, an open face in the city and drop the lid down on the highway....or there abouts.

When I say I ride with my brain, it means I try to make rational decisions, based on logic and probabilities, which is what most sensible people do.

1. If I am riding fast and I will have less time to react.

2. If I ride fast and have an accident it will hurt more.

3. If I am in town and my senses are as unimpaired as they can be, I will be more likely to spot danger= Open face. The risk of jaw damage at low speeds is insignificant.

4. If I am riding fast and can't hear anything except wind noise, my priority switches to this "18% risk of jaw damage". = Full face. The open face helmet option offers little to counter this.

OP...As with all pieces of protective equipment you have to balance safety with practicality and comfort in this hot climate. If you are stifling hot...in a black, full face helmet, in slow moving or stationary traffic, an amount of concentration will be lost and everyone who has any sense, has to agree that concentration is of paramount importance.

[bobbin]

I have been following this thread but not avidly...

Maybe I have something to contribute.

I have been wearing a Real open face for the past couple of years. No removable liner, but not too sweaty since I much prefer riding early morning or after dark. Another open face before that and a couple of full-face before that. Here in Thailand.

Yesterday I went out highway riding with a friend who's just got a new bike. Sort of to show what a responsible rider I am, I wore my Shoei full-face helmet, Taichi mesh jacket and gloves, army-issue hot weather trousers, and boots. Well I just about melted! There was no way i wanted to stop anywhere for more than 10 seconds.

But it did get me thinking, not for the first time, about lower face protection. That part of my body that does all the sweet-talking and ass-kissing. So I purchased a Bilmola moto-cross full-face. Great ventilation as it's a sweaty sport. Very light, using carbon fibre and abs plastic. With the peak a factor for a sportbike riding position, the Bilmola was better than the Real version. I checked both out seated on the bike.

I just now returned from the first real world ride. I am so pleased! I feel safer. It's light on my head. Easier to get on and off than a regular full face. The Shoei wanted to rip my ears off as I adjusted it yesterday...

I know the two styles aren't supposed to go together, but I think I'm onto a winner.

[taninthai]

Less protection is never better no matter what speed or conditions Allan,so your statement quoted below is rubbish.

Better off" with an open face helmet at "bicycle speeds",

You could be completely stationary and another vehicle hit you at 100 kmr.please wake up one minuite your tell you tell us you ride with your brain then you come out with this rubbish.I don't care what you what you wear but please don't come out with craps like this to try and justify your poor descisions.",

Another guy who has joined the argument with a stupid statement, what has being hit while stationary anything to do with this argument? You really think having a full face helmet on will save you or make you suffer any fewer injuries, when being hit up the arse at 100kph..you are either dead, or bloody lucky... At least with your senses unimpaired you might actually hear, see, or sense, it coming and jump off... a long shot I know, but I said you would need to be lucky.

Why do you think all major manufacturers make both types, because they wish to put at risk 98% of their customers? It is because they understand the statement "horses for courses" and that one is safer than the other, in different situations. If any of them thought as you do, they would recall all their open face helmets claiming "we only sell really safe helmets".

Why do you think they make combi helmets, just so you can lift the lid at the traffic lights to smoke a fag? It is to give you the best of both worlds, an open face in the city and drop the lid down on the highway....or there abouts.

When I say I ride with my brain, it means I try to make rational decisions, based on logic and probabilities, which is what most sensible people do.

1. If I am riding fast and I will have less time to react.

2. If I ride fast and have an accident it will hurt more.

3. If I am in town and my senses are as unimpaired as they can be, I will be more likely to spot danger= Open face. The risk of jaw damage at low speeds is insignificant.

4. If I am riding fast and can't hear anything except wind noise, my priority switches to this "18% risk of jaw damage". = Full face. The open face helmet option offers little to counter this.

OP...As with all pieces of protective equipment you have to balance safety with practicality and comfort in this hot climate. If you are stifling hot...in a black, full face helmet, in slow moving or stationary traffic, an amount of concentration will be lost and everyone who has any sense, has to agree that concentration is of paramount importance.

you really don't have a clue mate, I really don't care carry on doing whatever you want to do

[Still Living]

Just another thought on helmets. My quality full face with proper vents feels cooler then my old half helmet with no vents. I love having a visor to keep the dust bugs and debris off my face. I just keep it cracked for city riding.

Also has a drop down sun visor which is fantastic! Once you try one there's no going back.

So if I have to choose between a half helmet with visor or a full face, why not get the added chin protection? It's not that much hotter. Also handy if you need to box it out with some thugs on the street corner. ?

Also, those flip up helmets are so goofy. Choose one or the other.

[AllanB]

This whole argument for wearing full face helmets seems to rest on this "19.4% of all crashes involves lower face injuries" and i would suggest that statement is the biggest load of quoted on this forum.

1. I have seen probably 30 to 40 accident aftermaths and none had obvious damage to the face, except where they weren't wearing a helmet at all and that was mainly to the upper head.

2. Okay I haven't been around but these guys have....

They have been riding for 50 years "for kicks" and lets assume they go riding every two weeks, that is 1,300 fast trips each or 2,600 between them. And judging by this video they fall off quite a fair bit, so lets say 5 a piece each trip, small and medium "crashes". That is 26,000 crashes in their lifetimes and since they are both are clearly wearing open face helmets (stupid fools), so they should have been smashed their faces more than 5,000 times, some seriously...now judging by their jaws I very much doubt that.

Maybe two or three a piece which is 0.0194%, so you are out by a factor of 1,000, which kind of changes the argument just a bit..

Now I don't know where you got that statistic, but it does look a bit questionable...so what else have you got?

Edited September 26, 2015 by AllanB

[bobbin]

Just another thought on helmets. My quality full face with proper vents feels cooler then my old half helmet with no vents. I love having a visor to keep the dust bugs and debris off my face. I just keep it cracked for city riding.

Also has a drop down sun visor which is fantastic! Once you try one there's no going back.

So if I have to choose between a half helmet with visor or a full face, why not get the added chin protection? It's not that much hotter. Also handy if you need to box it out with some thugs on the street corner. ?

Also, those flip up helmets are so goofy. Choose one or the other.

A half-helmet? You really do want to stir things up!

Plenty of Police riders in N.America use them. Not so much the European cousins. They seem to go for the Combi-style.

[taninthai]

Some people are missing the point here yes a lot of people do wear half face helmets ,that's not really the issue here,it's More about ridiculous comments claiming they are safer which is annoying,really it'd just people showing their inexperuence and naivety.

[wantan]

Obviously Allan don't like full face because too hot, or he just isn't used to them. So he tries to convince himself that its a clever decision to ride open face. That's normal human behaviour. Imo that's OK. At least he isn't claiming he is a bike instructor

[taninthai]

someone sent me a link about some research that has been done on this subject, surprise surprise the results were that it makes no difference to sound and vision weather you be full face half face...of coarse allan knows better though and will spout some more rubbish,bear in mind this research was done in 1994 and full face helmets have advanced a lot since then in weight,size etc etc.its embarrassing really, even have to discuss this matter surely its common sense.

http://www.nhtsa.gov.../pdf/808399.pdf

[Still Living]

Open face is fine for "bicycle speeds" unless this happens.

I wear a full face and gloves even when riding a scooter around town. May seem excessive but I like my face and I use my hands for a lot of things.

So if the two who were run down and crushed between the stopped car and the out of control truck were wearing full face helmets, they would have looked better at their funerals. Does not seem to be a very relevant argument.

Everyone survived this crash. Not sure what their faces looked like... Just making the point that even when farting around town on a scooter some wild crap can happen. Plus I don't like eating bugs so full face for me! Do what makes you comfortable.

[maykilceksin]

why you think and reason others?

it is your head and body when you crash down! forget about others.

it is all about protecting yourself from danger first not about making people around less or more safe.

or do you think it is a good 'choice' to break your head on the pavement in case of an accident?

so maybe you think you dont create danger for others which i dont think so; if you dont gear up, it means you dont know what you are doing and how to calculate risks in your life. so it makes me start to think you might not even know the traffic rules or maybe even dont know how to ride a bike properly. This is the impression you gave me although you might be a clever guy or a super duper rider.

guys running with full gear sure running much more safer than you and know what they are doing and how did you calculate their speed? do you go around with a Radar?

" if you dont gear up, it means you dont know what you are doing and how to calculate risks in your life"

Why don't you tell that to Andrea Iannone. He knows when its time to gear up and when not to.

clearly he cannot calculate the risks in his life too. thanks for your good example on such people.

even though he is a mighty racer, and a great rider, riding a 800 cc bike with shorts, sport shoes and without gloves is not a thoughtful act imo. first of all, most likely his legs might be burned as scrambler is operating frying hot they say.

he looks like a Russian renting a scrambler in Phuket!

he knows the fact that riding on normal roads are more dangerous than riding on a track but he has chosen to ride a 800 cc bike like a squid, not a good example for riders around the world too, especially to his young fans.

why you think and reason others?

it is your head and body when you crash down! forget about others.

it is all about protecting yourself from danger first not about making people around less or more safe.

or do you think it is a good 'choice' to break your head on the pavement in case of an accident?

so maybe you think you dont create danger for others which i dont think so; if you dont gear up, it means you dont know what you are doing and how to calculate risks in your life. so it makes me start to think you might not even know the traffic rules or maybe even dont know how to ride a bike properly. This is the impression you gave me although you might be a clever guy or a super duper rider.

guys running with full gear sure running much more safer than you and know what they are doing and how did you calculate their speed? do you go around with a Radar?

Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

You can make assumptions about me from one bit of information if you choose. I could make assumptions about you because of your less than perfect English, but that would be acting like a dick, and I try not to do that.

Why would I be concerned about the other people who share the road with me? Because I'm a decent human being who understands that I have no right to put others in danger.

But, FWIW, I will say this; I am about to turn 50 and I have been riding since I was 14. I have had some spills, some with gear, some without. I also drove ambulances as an EMT for a while. These and other experiences have brought me to my current opinion on wearing safety gear. And yes, I am licensed.

Finally, one does not need to calculate someones speed to know if they are driving too fast for the conditions. Take for example the recent Facebook video of the kid who ate shit in the rain and then so 'gallantly' held onto his passenger. The minute I saw that video I knew he was going too fast, long before I heard anything about how fast he was actually going. That he was going too fast is self evident.

do whatever assumptions you can do as long as they are reasonable like mine. but assumptions coming from my english would be poor in a bike forum, dont you think?

as i said in my post, you might be actually a clever guy and a good rider but from your post, that was not the impression i got.

you say you had your spills with or without gear, which one was more painful at ideal conditions? with or without gear? lets say what are you defending?

if freedom of riding without a gear, of course that is your life your skull. but if anyone defends that freedom openly, i have the right to criticize it because thousands of riders are dying on the roads just because they dont use a helmet or protective gear, harming themselves and others. thinking they are cool, they are free not to, or a helmet makes them sweat! - it is sweat or bleed at the end and if they do an accident and die, no one will remember their cool faces or their great tendency and love of freedom a day after the funeral!

as a decent human being and for security of the others, you just concern about yourself first and try to be away from danger. this will prevent you harming others on the road automatically. like they say in airplanes, before worrying about others, put the oxygen mask first to your own face.

Edited September 27, 2015 by maykilceksin

[AllanB]

Obviously Allan don't like full face because too hot, or he just isn't used to them. So he tries to convince himself that its a clever decision to ride open face. That's normal human behaviour. Imo that's OK. At least he isn't claiming he is a bike instructor

After all this you are still insisting it is just me and my worry about my hair getting sweaty?

The 19.4% of all accidents involving jaw damage is complete crap...the video I showed of these guys riding for kicks for 50 years, showed two guys with unmarked jaws. So my guess is the statistics are ZERO% in their case..and this your only argument.

What makes you think I am the only one, 98% of bikers around the world wear open face helmets, are they all stupid too, as most can buy a full face helmet for around the same price?

I will try one last time... this is not about one extremely questionable statistic, it about what makes you ride more safely.

I have mentioned concentration as being the most important factor and I stand by that and being comfortable is a major part of that. Next is maximising the use of all your senses, hearing, vision, peripheral vision, etc.

Now since you mention being "too hot", that is another factor effecting safety, while you are busy wiping the sweat out of your eyes so that you can see, your eyes are not on the road and your hands are not on the bars....

And trying to stay cool and calm is very important too, with all this mayhem going on around you....where 70% of the people around have no driving licence.

1 in 5 accidents involve jaw damage is nonsense, so this whole thing needs to be put in perspective, weighing up all the factors and that is what I am trying to do here for this particular posting.

So OP make your own mind up on what you have read.......be safe.

I would add one note though, try to keep the sun off your skin, burnt and skin cancer is easy to get on a bike. Every part I mean, gloves have a double roll there and...another reason not to wear flip flops, as if you need another.