'Defrauded by my wife and criminals in Thailand' - BBC special report

[Robert24]

I generally enjoy and respect your thoughtful posts, villagefarang, but in this case I think you are being overly judgemental and behind the times.

In the past, Thai law pretty much reflected your thinking. It reasoned that because foreigners could not legally own land in Thailand, in the event that their illegally obtained land rights were violated, the law could provide no remedy to protect an illegal interest in property. In the 1990's, however, Thailand's Supreme Court changed its thinking on this matter. Under current Thai land law if a person is found to have obtained an illegal interest in land, the Department of Land can step in and force the foreigner to sell the illegally owned land. The court thus reasoned that because an administrative mechanism for forcing the sale of illegally owned land existed, land ownership rights, even those obtained in violation of Thai land law, could still be protected under civil law. People, of course, have the right not to sympathize with Ian, but at least recognize and acknowledge - as the Thai Supreme Court has done - that two wrongs don't make a right, and land law shouldn't be used as a justification for ripping people off.

It should also be pointed out that instances of foreigners illegally obtaining interests in land are likely far more prevelant than many realize. For example, under Thai land law, if a foreign national marries a Thai national, any funds used to purchase land should come exclusively from the Thai national. The main reason for this is that in the event of divorce, the law does not want a foreign national to be able to assert an ownership interest in the land. The law further stipulates that when a Thai national and a foreign born national seek to purchase land, the couple should sign an affidavit which states none of the money used to purchase the land came from the foreign national. If a Thai/foreign national couple purchases land with assets which belong to the foreign national, this is in clear violation of Thai land law. Furthermore, anyone stating that the money to purchase the land did not come from the foreign national when in reality it did, is guilty of making false statements to a public official, which is punishable by fines and incarceration. My point is that the prevelance of foreigners circumventing or violating land law goes far beyond people just setting up dummy corporations, may extend right to one's own front door, and it may be wise to conduct a compliance review of one's own situation before passing judgement on others.

I also don't think that speculation about how this man's wife may or may not have 'felt' is appropriate. The motives for the wife's accumulation of debt are unknown and could have been incurred out of sheer avarice, gambling debts, or even been incurred prior to the marriage, hidden from the spouse for 8 years, all the while accumulating interest at loanshark rates. I'm just saying that not everyone who has been taken advantage of in Thailand is naive, a control freak, or a bloomin' idiot, and knowing you've been here for many years, I'm genuinely surprised you are as reluctant as you seem to be to acknowledge this.

Your post is long and I am somewhat confused by it, but I believe that you are in agreement with those of us that say "thinking of buying land in Thailand- JUST DON'T".

Here's the Cliff Notes version of what I wrote:

Thailand's Supreme Court has interpreted the law to allow foreigners to protect illegally obtained property rights. Those saying that 'anyone who violates Thailand's land laws deserves what they get,' are out of step with Thailand's Supreme Court.

Violation of land law is probably more prevalent than many realize and extends beyond people setting up dummy corporations. Before passing judgement on the OP, you may want to check first if you are fully compliant with the law.

Speculating about the health of the OP's prior marriage is unfair because all of the facts are not known. Blaming the victim by speculating that he may have driven his wife to commit fraud is also unfair.

I would not advocate violating Thailand's land laws. It is rife with peril, and in many cases registering land in another entity's or person's name creates a moral hazard. If you choose to take that risk, you need to fully understand the risks and potential consequences involved.

I admire the OP's efforts to seek justice and recover his assets. By alerting others to these dangers, as well as hopefully discouraging others from perpetrating similar criminal acts, the OP is helping the expat community and deserves to be supported by us.

IMO only an investment strike by all farangs and overseas companies will change anything. Otherwise they are doing very nicely and why would they change?

However, I do not agree that farangs should be able to buy land. In my country it is virtually impossible for young people to buy a house, due to the government not looking after it's own citizens and kowtowing to rich overseas 'investors" that buy up everything at inflated prices. In my perfect world, my country would look to Thailand to base it's land ownership laws on. IMO Thailand is doing the right thing.

well rule of law is usually a key deciding factor for companies and it's a reason why many HQ are in Singapore or Hong Kong for Asia. It's also a reason why some companies prefer Hong Kong then mainland China for their China business. So if Thailand wants to increase FDI then they will have to improve the rule of law.

[villagefarang]

I find it interesting when foreigners in Thailand on the one hand complain that there is no rule of law, while on the other hand when confronted with a rule they don’t like, try every trick in the book to get around it. Everyone seems to think the rules are for the other guy.

[bkk75]

The real story here and it's been repeated many times by middle aged or older expats.

Check out brain at immigration. Marrying someone half one's age when you couldn't do this in your own country and think it's love (unless you're Donald Trump). Buy property you can't put your name on and then expect happily ever after with kids that you can't keep up with by time they reach their teens.

Yes yes there's few exceptions blah blah.

Sympathy goes out to all who's been cheated but as the cliche goes..a fool and his money.....

Edited September 23, 2015 by bkk75

[Robert24]

I find it interesting when foreigners in Thailand on the one hand complain that there is no rule of law, while on the other hand when confronted with a rule they don’t like, try every trick in the book to get around it. Everyone seems to think the rules are for the other guy.

for companies it's clear. They want strong rule of law usually. For individuals it depends on each person. It's sometimes also about finding a balance between regulations and freedom. Probably Singapore is on one end here and Thailand on the other.but if I understand the current government correctly, they try to improve this.

[cgphuket]

He had enough money to live for life on the interest, in a bank account with his name on it. Should not have spent it on risky ventures...

[villagefarang]

It looks like I am headed to the poorhouse for sure. My wife didn’t have a university education when we married but she is in her final semester here at Chiang Rai University if that counts.

I have enough money for both of us so I value her company more than any amount of money she could obtain from employment.

I would have nothing in common with a sixty year old woman but I have a lot in common with my forty year old wife. When she is sixty and I am eighty I may make an exception to my comment about sixty year old women.

She didn’t speak English when we met but I did speak Thai if that counts. Her university major is English so now we both speak each others language with proficiency.

In my opinion, making checklists is a waste of time because each person and couple is different. On paper my wife and I shouldn’t have worked but 18 years on we have done things our way and have a really wonderful loving relationship. That is another thing, no one ever talks about love. Women are always referred to as a commodity, like a used car, a piece of meat or a depository for men’s sexual release.

As Prince Charles famously said, "whatever love is". I don't think many people "love" each other, in the true sense of the word. I think most confuse "love" with lust, and lust never lasts. If they are lucky, they meet someone they like, and stay together as friends with benefits.

When women rent out their vaginas to any bloke with a few thousand baht they should expect to be treated like a commodity.

I don't know about you ( perhaps you like to visit temples ), but when I came to Thailand twice a year on holiday, it wasn't to play with the orphans and help old ladies across the street, and I wasn't intending to go home as a married man either.

I did eventually get married and I don't visit bars any more, except with her, or if she's not there, she certainly knows I am and that I'm not renting anyone's vagina.

That's something I like about my wife, I can look at another woman or go to Pattaya alone without her threatening to divorce me, like my western ex would have.

I am guessing that, ‘I don’t know about you’ was meant to be rhetorical but if it makes you feel any better, my first twenty years in Bangkok would make even the most prolific monger pause in reflection. Though, I have known many women who allowed themselves to be treated as commodities I tried not to let that affect how I treated them regardless of our relationship.

My twenties and thirties were interesting and varied to say the least, with my one saving grace being that I didn’t drink, since I was out almost every night. My apartment was little more than a place to shower and sleep or change after sleeping elsewhere.

So don’t think that because I am happily married for 18 years to a smart, beautiful, athletic woman twenty years my junior, that I don’t understand the other side of life in Thailand. Been there done that, but have chosen to live a more dignified life in my old age and without kids I might add. I have absolutely no interest in visiting bars these days and as for western exes I have no experience with them at all.

[nontabury]

I feel this BBC report is prejudiced in favor of the husband. It seems this guy is controlling the whole finance of the family,if the wife need money so bad why didnt he meet her need? What is the whole truth behind the story?

There are some women,who no matter what or how much you give them, it's never enough.

[charliebadenhop]

To the man with "Amerasia in his screen name.

Are you saying that you had little to no Inklings that things were wrong before things quickly went south?

[charliebadenhop]

jmccarty,

So you buy your lady property assuming it is never really yours...

Because?

[Jonathan Swift]

Look at him, look at her.

Everyone can see what's gonna happen ........ except him.

Question from interviewer, "What would you say to people that want to come here?"

Answer from me, "Don't marry a woman 1/3 your weight and 1/2 your age and expect her to love you or be trustworthy"

This isn't rocket science.

I have a method which I think should work - 1/2 - 2/3 my weight, 2/3 - 3/4 my age, they already have a job and career, I tell them I make $1264.00 US per month Social Security with no other assets. Lastly, I'm not interested in Marriage, companionship is fine. I have met a number of wonderful Thai women within those criteria.

[chilli42]

This should be mandatory viewing for every expat in Thailand. There are a few lessons here that keep being ignored: don't get a legally sectioned marriage it's just not necessary in Thailand, don't invest anything in Thailand that you can't afford to lose, never get involved in supporting in-laws, never ever trust anyone (this is SOP for Thais), all legal documents must be locked in a bank safe deposit box that only you have the address and key to (I learned this from Thais as well). You have no chance in this country if you are not willing to deal with Thais the way they deal with each other. If you want to behave as if you are living in your home country then leave your possessions there and never brag about how much you have.

[mary wang]

This guy said life is great in Phuket,but how about the life of his young wife who gave births of 3 children and still hasn't been able to lay a finger on the money . It is not love it sounds more like taking advantage of.

[mary wang]

This guy said life is great in Phuket,but how about the life of his young wife who gave births of 3 children and still hasn't been able to lay a finger on the money . It is not love it sounds more like taking advantage of.

[nontabury]

This guy said life is great in Phuket,but how about the life of his young wife who gave births of 3 children and still hasn't been able to lay a finger on the money . It is not love it sounds more like taking advantage of.

You've not been here very long "yes".

[Briggsy]

It didn't take long for post after post to get back to ranting about the wife again and totally missing the point that the fraud was planned, perpetrated and profited from by a network protected by state power and including holders of state positions, particularly in the Land Office.

Over the last 10 years, this forum has dumbed down considerably.

[Tony125]

Pages and pages of posts focusing on the wife and how fat the bloke is.

Hardly any posts regarding the key point here that this fraud involved Land Office officials and Police committing crime with impunity protected by their state positions.

The wife was with him for 9 years before the fraud. She probably has a P4 education. She was nothing but an easily controlled and intimidated pawn to this gang. Where is she now? In prison, like a good pawn should be.

Who has the money? Not the wife.

Everybody missing the point as usual.

And there you have it. I apologize to all TV members for being fat and wearing red trainers on the beach with the kids for an hour. Perhaps people will accept that and move on to the points at issue which is the fraud, organized crime and complicity of the legal system in perpetuating it. There are so many inconsistencies it belies belief!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ever hear the expression "never put all your eggs in one basket" ? You said in video " I was looking at a place with rule of law" Thailand ? Are you serious ? Can't read all 29 pages but one needs to spemd consideral time and not short vacations in Thailand and talk with other farangs /forums to see what the pros /cons dangers to doing business here. Should never have invested all your wealth from Britain here ( supposedly 2 million pounds) and given power to a loved one who can then severly hurt you if falls out of love. True the Thai court system, loan sharks and banks have screwed you over but never could have been done without your wife to facilitate the actions. If was really a desent woman could have told you she had financial problems---had tp pay off drug/gambling debts , help family whatever instead of selling off property for a fraction of its worth unless maybe she figured you wouldn't help so took matters in her own hands. Hope for your kids sake you get some of the money back but be more careful in future.

[Ling Kae]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Ian Rance's Thai assets/business interests/property were not legitimately 'his' in the first place.

Am I wrong?

As for people slating Thai women on here: you're stereotyping and it's completely inaccurate.

There are lots of happily married farang/Thai couples in this country. Once again, if you're a single man and want a Thai girlfriend, then make sure she satisfies the following criteria:

1. She has a university education

2. She has her own income

3. She's around about the same age as you

4. She speaks English at an advanced/near fluency level

If your Thai girlfriend matches the above four criteria, then you'll find that she'll be the best companion that you could ever wish for.

Also, men, please be understanding towards Thai culture. Thailand has never been colonized, and most Thai people think in a way that is different to anglocized/Western culture. Be patient, be understanding and embrace Thai culture.

You are a guest in this country. Stop trying to change everything. Embrace the reality and learn to respect Thai culture.

What is this obsession with a university education? In a country where I believe you have to have a uni degree to work in a 7 11 they are no indicator of anything except that you were there for a few years. NZ had a very wealthy man that refused to employ uni graduates because he said they were useless in real life.

While they are certainly necessary for Drs and architects etc, a lot of degrees are rubbish- hip hop anyone?

Is 2 out of 4 OK?

Embrace Thai culture.

So I should accept corruption, accept shoddy workmanship and lazy shop staff, believe in Hindu gods, give the family lots of money for no good reason except I married one of them, drive very badly and treat those less fortunate poorly because they must have been wicked in a previous life.

Erm, I don't think so.

You are a guest in this country.

Since when did guests have to pay to stay somewhere?

Stop trying to change everything. Embrace the reality

Well you did say something I can agree with.

I like this guy, right on buddy.

[huawei]

I find it interesting when foreigners in Thailand on the one hand complain that there is no rule of law, while on the other hand when confronted with a rule they don’t like, try every trick in the book to get around it. Everyone seems to think the rules are for the other guy.

Simple arrogance..I have friends who have lived here many years..none and I mean absolutely none have used the nominee route..why? They all took legal advice or didn't buy a house or whatever until they had been here about 10 years..its just plain common sense. None have had a problem.

[huawei]

Education is almost everything here...because the alternative is just dire!

[sixthelement]

Just another example of never buying property in Thailand and never Invest any Money in anything here ...

Sorry to contradict you, I invested 50,000b 3 years ago in a business in bkk, and I am now multi-millionaire (in baths)

[huawei]

Just another example of never buying property in Thailand and never Invest any Money in anything here ...

Sorry to contradict you, I invested 50,000b 3 years ago in a business in bkk, and I am now multi-millionaire (in baths)

Well done.

[Ling Kae]

Just another example of never buying property in Thailand and never Invest any Money in anything here ...

Sorry to contradict you, I invested 50,000b 3 years ago in a business in bkk, and I am now multi-millionaire (in baths)

Says someone on the internet with no proof or anything. Show us the proof and give us your business name and your name so we come around and check up on you and show us your books and purchase price too...... Yeah that's right, no is the answer, just internet BS............... PS: There is no such thing as "baths" currency. It's called bahts.

[Nip]

Stop playing victim. You knew going in the inconsistentcies in legal recourse should things go wrong. Well they went wrong and you are living what you already knew.

The thing is most non nationals are now aware of the lack of law, justice, logic indeed blatant racism in the judicial system in Phuket. 10 years ago it was not apparent because people like Ian did not come out and bare their souls to be ridiculed when they should be applauded and supported. I don't think it was easy for him to go public but he hopefully will have prevented others from falling into the same trap. How many of those mightier than thou negative Thaivisa keyboard warriors have bank accounts or cars in Thailand because you can just as easily loose your car and the money in your bank account just like like Ian and have no idea until it is too late. What do you see at the start and finish of the Thaivisa newsletter every day? Houses for sale. How are Phuket newspapers mostly funded? Property advertising. The purchasing of property in Phuket is often promoted by the Governor and his administration and supported by the legal profession. The foreign currency used to purchase property in Thailand is converted to Thai Baht Thailand through the Bank of Thailand with the detail that the fund transfer is for the purchase of property. So is the legal profession and Bank of Thailand complicit in the fraud? If the purchase of property is illegal then the Bank of Thailand, legal profession and courts should make a clear statement that it is. Quite a few people I know are, as a result of this and other recent publicity cutting and running from Phuket. I think everybody should get behind Ian and support him and not slaughter the messenger. Shocking things have been said here about Ian with malice and little forethought. Cheap shots. He is already in a dark place and we should be supporting him. The man is clearly not a fool and did not put all his eggs in the one basket as many suggested because he has been fighting the corruption in Phuket and existing here for 5 years. Thaivisa would be all the better for each and every one of us if we supported each other.

[smotherb]

Why is this called corruption when it is the stupidity of the round-eye?

[IrishDec]

I was lucky. I suggested having a joint account with my wife. Her reaction was "No you look after the money, I dont want to be on the account"

Strange maybe she owes money didn't want to get flagged

[jacko45k]

so super over weight Ian could not see this coming?

sorry to say, just look at the body language and expression on this wife's face in all the photos.

in the first 30 seconds you hear him say "... I was looking for a place with rule of law..."

are you completely clueless? everything in this video is what I found on google seven years ago on the first day researching Thailand. He must have never done a moments research.

I am sure Ian has a big heart, loved his wife and is a good and trusting person.

But you must have a healthy dose of paranoia to survive in Thailand.

Don't get married! Don't "buy" land. Assume nothing.

Spot on.My missus's friends ask why i don't buy useless Issan land at top price like other farangs.I am not a water buffalo,i reply.

Haha, my wife's sister and her husband were recently asking my Mrs if we knew any falangs who wanted to buy land in the middle of nowhere in Tak, as they needed to sell some. I asked, why falangs specifically (they have more money), why would a falang want land there (investment, can build a house). Falangs aren't allowed to own land (there are ways). They have a strange perception of the stupidity of falangs, sadly often justified.

[catman20]

Look at him, look at her.

Everyone can see what's gonna happen ........ except him.

Question from interviewer, "What would you say to people that want to come here?"

Answer from me, "Don't marry a woman 1/3 your weight and 1/2 your age and expect her to love you or be trustworthy"

This isn't rocket science.

he then goes off and makes the same mistake again..........................get married again ...........this man must be addicted to wedding cake !!!!!!!!!

[Henryford]

Reason #842 never to buy property in Thailand.

Reason #842 never to buy property, in someone else's name.

[slipperx]

Why a young wife would forsake everything she build in this marriage for the money? There must be something fishy going on behind this so called fraud. The title of "Defrauded by his Thai wife" is not accurate and unfounded.

No Mary it is accurate and well founded. You obviously don't know how the criminal fraternity which is prevalent in Phuket works. I am at court today. Just met a German man who told me the prosecutor here is corrupt - that is at least 5 people who have knowledge who have said that though I am not yet involved with the prosecutor. I met someone works for the foreign consulate also who said there are dozens and dozens of French people she has met over the last four years who have been similarly scammed.

The whole scale of scamming foreigners is just totally hidden with good reason yet people try to find some way to excuse it. Why? It exists through the police, the prosecutor and the courts which means the entire justice system. And as a foreigner you are not only at a disadvantage through not understand the copious amounts of paperwork that is cost prohibitive to translate but the lawyers hide papers from you and collude with the other side. Yet no one seems to be interested that this is all going on - just accept Thai culture and embrace it I am told.

I want to care for my kids, not cheat anyone nor live my life telling lies. I don't want a life of sexual outlets who pass through a daily revolving door and a life that is totally shallow so excuse me for not embracing all Thai culture has to offer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fang37]

Sad stuff this.

What gets me is that 11 years ago I met a wonderful Thai lady - a real honey!

First, bought her a m/c - Honda Wave.

About 5 years ago, bought her a car.

This year a quality home.

Now, she desires a new Pajero.

When I got cancer, I made her co-signatory to bank a/cs.

She has been with me through thick & thin.

So far, all is too good, BUT one never knows!

Oh well, if it hits the fan, there is always the Salvos or Vinnies.

I totally trust her but after reading this type of thread, some fear & worry arise.