Israel struggles to counter Palestinian rock-throwing threat

[Steely Dan]

Stop evading! You posted a known blood libel. People died as a direct result of this blood libel. Those that persist in repeating such libels have blood on THEIR OWN hands.

http://www.theatlant...al-dura/302735/

The four boys on the beach who died supposedly due to Israeli naval vessels firing on them were in fact murdered by Hamas, shortly I will be able to post clear evidence of this. Already some 'journalists' from Western news agencies have been demoted and transferred away from reporting on Israel. The rock throwing campaign which coincides with the holiest day in the Jewish calendar is designed to create martyrs, which sadly is the sole export to come out of Palestine.

Such will forever be the case whilst Western supposed pro-Palestinians lap up all the lies and incitement coming out of Pallywood, whilst BDS lose Palestinians their jobs, as happened with the Soda stream factory.

As for the 500 children, the lie very quickly unravels under scrutiny but the Western press is not interested, like their governments they are hopelessly morally compromised due to the Muslim invasion of Europe, which will turn their streets into battlefields in years to come.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/

Edited September 23, 2015 by Steely Dan

[Seastallion]

Stop evading! You posted a known blood libel. People died as a direct result of this blood libel. Those that persist in repeating such libels have blood on THEIR OWN hands.

http://www.theatlant...al-dura/302735/

The four boys on the beach who died supposedly due to Israeli naval vessels firing on them were in fact murdered by Hamas, shortly I will be able to post clear evidence of this. Already some 'journalists' from Western news agencies have been demoted and transferred away from reporting on Israel. The rock throwing campaign which coincides with the holiest day in the Jewish calendar is designed to create martyrs, which sadly is the sole export to come out of Palestine.

Such will forever be the case whilst Western supposed pro-Palestinians lap up all the lies and incitement coming out of Pallywood, whilst BDS lose Palestinians their jobs, as happened with the Soda stream factory.

As for the 500 children, the lie very quickly unravels under scrutiny but the Western press is not interested, like their governments they are hopelessly morally compromised due to the Muslim invasion of Europe, which will turn their streets into battlefields in years to come.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/

Your "lie about the 500 children" claim, based on this ridiculous and wildly biased article and website, is a joke.

For starters, the first paragraph, "Jew-haters are once again making the ludicrous accusation that Israel killed more than 500 children during the conflict. The true number will never be known, but it’s time to put this fairytale to rest once and for all." says it's a lie but says they don't know what the truth actually is!!!

How can anyone say it's not 500 but we don't know what it is?

[Steely Dan]

You can tell whether a piece of meat is maggot infested when you see the first maggot. Drilling down though the details is obviously beyond your mental capacity, just so long as you can cling to a headline number to trumpet repeatedly like a demented jackbooted Harpy.

[RockyBeerbelly]

Stop evading! You posted a known blood libel. People died as a direct result of this blood libel. Those that persist in repeating such libels have blood on THEIR OWN hands.

http://www.theatlant...al-dura/302735/

The four boys on the beach who died supposedly due to Israeli naval vessels firing on them were in fact murdered by Hamas, shortly I will be able to post clear evidence of this. Already some 'journalists' from Western news agencies have been demoted and transferred away from reporting on Israel. The rock throwing campaign which coincides with the holiest day in the Jewish calendar is designed to create martyrs, which sadly is the sole export to come out of Palestine.

Such will forever be the case whilst Western supposed pro-Palestinians lap up all the lies and incitement coming out of Pallywood, whilst BDS lose Palestinians their jobs, as happened with the Soda stream factory.

As for the 500 children, the lie very quickly unravels under scrutiny but the Western press is not interested, like their governments they are hopelessly morally compromised due to the Muslim invasion of Europe, which will turn their streets into battlefields in years to come.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/

You want to be taken seriously and then you share a website that the 500 Palestinian children were not murdered because the delusional paranoid Thomas Wictor says so? I rest my case!

Maybe you can ask Thomas Wictor to answer my simple question, because you still avoid an answer....

[Steely Dan]

Stop evading! You posted a known blood libel. People died as a direct result of this blood libel. Those that persist in repeating such libels have blood on THEIR OWN hands.

http://www.theatlant...al-dura/302735/

The four boys on the beach who died supposedly due to Israeli naval vessels firing on them were in fact murdered by Hamas, shortly I will be able to post clear evidence of this. Already some 'journalists' from Western news agencies have been demoted and transferred away from reporting on Israel. The rock throwing campaign which coincides with the holiest day in the Jewish calendar is designed to create martyrs, which sadly is the sole export to come out of Palestine.

Such will forever be the case whilst Western supposed pro-Palestinians lap up all the lies and incitement coming out of Pallywood, whilst BDS lose Palestinians their jobs, as happened with the Soda stream factory.

As for the 500 children, the lie very quickly unravels under scrutiny but the Western press is not interested, like their governments they are hopelessly morally compromised due to the Muslim invasion of Europe, which will turn their streets into battlefields in years to come.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/'>http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/"]http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/

You want to be taken seriously and then you share a website that the 500 Palestinian children were not murdered because the delusional paranoid Thomas Wictor says so? I rest my case!

Maybe you can ask Thomas Wictor to answer my simple question, because you still avoid an answer....

Still not retracted your previous blood libel I note.

Incidentally anyone who dismisses evidence based on their opinion of its source has no case to rest. Let's take just one example, does this picture look like a child?

http://www.thomaswictor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Ashraf_Ibrahim_al-Najjar.jpg

If not why did his name appear on the official list of child casualties given by the Palestinians. Etc etc ad nauseum. You have no answers, you have nothing but bluster. The sources you disapprove of have a habit of being taken up by the mainstream right, then the mainstream left retreats from their previous lies, alas often not before innocents have been killed in reprisals for obvious lies.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Steely Dan

[RockyBeerbelly]

Stop evading! You posted a known blood libel. People died as a direct result of this blood libel. Those that persist in repeating such libels have blood on THEIR OWN hands.

http://www.theatlant...al-dura/302735/

The four boys on the beach who died supposedly due to Israeli naval vessels firing on them were in fact murdered by Hamas, shortly I will be able to post clear evidence of this. Already some 'journalists' from Western news agencies have been demoted and transferred away from reporting on Israel. The rock throwing campaign which coincides with the holiest day in the Jewish calendar is designed to create martyrs, which sadly is the sole export to come out of Palestine.

Such will forever be the case whilst Western supposed pro-Palestinians lap up all the lies and incitement coming out of Pallywood, whilst BDS lose Palestinians their jobs, as happened with the Soda stream factory.

As for the 500 children, the lie very quickly unravels under scrutiny but the Western press is not interested, like their governments they are hopelessly morally compromised due to the Muslim invasion of Europe, which will turn their streets into battlefields in years to come.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/

Your "lie about the 500 children" claim, based on this ridiculous and wildly biased article and website, is a joke.

For starters, the first paragraph, "Jew-haters are once again making the ludicrous accusation that Israel killed more than 500 children during the conflict. The true number will never be known, but it’s time to put this fairytale to rest once and for all." says it's a lie but says they don't know what the truth actually is!!!

How can anyone say it's not 500 but we don't know what it is?

Its getting indeed a bit pathetic. I thought old Dan was someone with whom you could have a serious discussion/argument/debate, but by directing me to the website of Thomas Wictor he really lost all credibility....

[up-country_sinclair]

You can tell whether a piece of meat is maggot infested when you see the first maggot. Drilling down though the details is obviously beyond your mental capacity, just so long as you can cling to a headline number to trumpet repeatedly like a demented jackbooted Harpy.

Resorting to personal attacks and insults is a clear indication that one has lost the argument.

Edited September 23, 2015 by up-country_sinclair

[Steely Dan]

You can tell whether a piece of meat is maggot infested when you see the first maggot. Drilling down though the details is obviously beyond your mental capacity, just so long as you can cling to a headline number to trumpet repeatedly like a demented jackbooted Harpy.

Resorting to personal attacks and insults is a clear indication that one has lost the argument.

Deleted. Edited September 23, 2015 by Steely Dan

[RockyBeerbelly]

Stop evading! You posted a known blood libel. People died as a direct result of this blood libel. Those that persist in repeating such libels have blood on THEIR OWN hands.

http://www.theatlant...al-dura/302735/

The four boys on the beach who died supposedly due to Israeli naval vessels firing on them were in fact murdered by Hamas, shortly I will be able to post clear evidence of this. Already some 'journalists' from Western news agencies have been demoted and transferred away from reporting on Israel. The rock throwing campaign which coincides with the holiest day in the Jewish calendar is designed to create martyrs, which sadly is the sole export to come out of Palestine.

Such will forever be the case whilst Western supposed pro-Palestinians lap up all the lies and incitement coming out of Pallywood, whilst BDS lose Palestinians their jobs, as happened with the Soda stream factory.

As for the 500 children, the lie very quickly unravels under scrutiny but the Western press is not interested, like their governments they are hopelessly morally compromised due to the Muslim invasion of Europe, which will turn their streets into battlefields in years to come.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/'>http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/"]http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/

You want to be taken seriously and then you share a website that the 500 Palestinian children were not murdered because the delusional paranoid Thomas Wictor says so? I rest my case!

Maybe you can ask Thomas Wictor to answer my simple question, because you still avoid an answer....

Still not retracted your previous blood libel I note.

Incidentally anyone who dismisses evidence based on their opinion of its source has no case to rest. Let's take just one example, does this picture look like a child?

http://www.thomaswictor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Ashraf_Ibrahim_al-Najjar.jpg

If not why did his name appear on the official list of child casualties given by the Palestinians. Etc etc ad nauseum. You have no answers, you have nothing but bluster. The sources you disapprove of have a habit of being taken up by the mainstream right, then the mainstream left retreats from their previous lies, alas often not before innocents have been killed in reprisals for obvious lies.

Denying the slaughter of Palestinians in 2014 by the IDF = denying the holocaust

No other argument needed

Have a good life

Edited September 23, 2015 by RockyBeerbelly

[Seastallion]

You can tell whether a piece of meat is maggot infested when you see the first maggot. Drilling down though the details is obviously beyond your mental capacity, just so long as you can cling to a headline number to trumpet repeatedly like a demented jackbooted Harpy.

Yes, I saw the first maggot (that they say 500 is a lie but have no idea what the real number is). Voila, maggot infested.

Realising that you gave me an nice analogy is obviously beyond your mental capacity.

We don't know what the number is, but it's not 500! Perhaps it's 600 then?

[Seastallion]

Stop evading! You posted a known blood libel. People died as a direct result of this blood libel. Those that persist in repeating such libels have blood on THEIR OWN hands.

http://www.theatlant...al-dura/302735/

The four boys on the beach who died supposedly due to Israeli naval vessels firing on them were in fact murdered by Hamas, shortly I will be able to post clear evidence of this. Already some 'journalists' from Western news agencies have been demoted and transferred away from reporting on Israel. The rock throwing campaign which coincides with the holiest day in the Jewish calendar is designed to create martyrs, which sadly is the sole export to come out of Palestine.

Such will forever be the case whilst Western supposed pro-Palestinians lap up all the lies and incitement coming out of Pallywood, whilst BDS lose Palestinians their jobs, as happened with the Soda stream factory.

As for the 500 children, the lie very quickly unravels under scrutiny but the Western press is not interested, like their governments they are hopelessly morally compromised due to the Muslim invasion of Europe, which will turn their streets into battlefields in years to come.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/'>http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/"]http://www.thomaswictor.com/israel-didnt-kill-500-palestinian-children/

You want to be taken seriously and then you share a website that the 500 Palestinian children were not murdered because the delusional paranoid Thomas Wictor says so? I rest my case!

Maybe you can ask Thomas Wictor to answer my simple question, because you still avoid an answer....

Still not retracted your previous blood libel I note.

Incidentally anyone who dismisses evidence based on their opinion of its source has no case to rest. Let's take just one example, does this picture look like a child?

http://www.thomaswictor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Ashraf_Ibrahim_al-Najjar.jpg

If not why did his name appear on the official list of child casualties given by the Palestinians. Etc etc ad nauseum. You have no answers, you have nothing but bluster. The sources you disapprove of have a habit of being taken up by the mainstream right, then the mainstream left retreats from their previous lies, alas often not before innocents have been killed in reprisals for obvious lies.

Still quoting maggots to support your position.

[NeverSure]

So tell me, where does it state that the UN allows confiscating land as spoils of war?

So tell me, who or what is this UN? Is it some busybodies that think they have a right to tell a country what to do? What teeth does this UN have?

You have a problem. Israel is in possession of its ancient homeland including Old Jerusalem and it won't let go. There's no one big enough or with the guts to try to make it let go.

Why don't you just give it up? The Arabs rejected any deal offered by this "UN" and instead went to war against Israel and lost.

There never was and still isn't a country or a people called Palestine or Palestinians. Never. Ever.

There was and is an ancient Israel and Old Jerusalem and Israel has it. They aren't going to let go.

All of the losers posting here are just whiners. Sore losers they are. Crying to this imaginary UN? What's that about? There's some toothless body that meets in NYC and can't agree on much but it's useless.

Get all of your Muslim buddies together and go try to take E. Jerusalem. Just don't forget to tell us what you'd like to have carved into your tombstone.

[Jingthing]

No need to struggle if only Israel recognizes the Palestinian State. The ball is in your court israel.

So naive it isn't even funny.

[thaibeachlovers]

So tell me, where does it state that the UN allows confiscating land as spoils of war?

So tell me, who or what is this UN? Is it some busybodies that think they have a right to tell a country what to do? What teeth does this UN have?

You have a problem. Israel is in possession of its ancient homeland including Old Jerusalem and it won't let go. There's no one big enough or with the guts to try to make it let go.

Why don't you just give it up? The Arabs rejected any deal offered by this "UN" and instead went to war against Israel and lost.

There never was and still isn't a country or a people called Palestine or Palestinians. Never. Ever.

There was and is an ancient Israel and Old Jerusalem and Israel has it. They aren't going to let go.

All of the losers posting here are just whiners. Sore losers they are. Crying to this imaginary UN? What's that about? There's some toothless body that meets in NYC and can't agree on much but it's useless.

Get all of your Muslim buddies together and go try to take E. Jerusalem. Just don't forget to tell us what you'd like to have carved into your tombstone.

The "imaginary" UN you refer to is what created Israel. Had they not done so there would be no Israel.

Tell me again in 600 years if it's still the Jewish homeland. Time is on the Arabs side.

[thaibeachlovers]

No need to struggle if only Israel recognizes the Palestinian State. The ball is in your court israel.

So naive it isn't even funny.

Perhaps, but how many Jews in Israel and how many enemies outside Israel? They know that most of the world is against them, and more countries turn against them all the time. That must be a worry.

It will only take an American president that is anti Israel to take away the shield that the US presently offers. When that happens, there will be a lot of Jewish Israelis quite sorry they didn't make good neighbours when they had the opportunity.

[Seastallion]

No need to struggle if only Israel recognizes the Palestinian State. The ball is in your court israel.

So naive it isn't even funny.

Perhaps, but how many Jews in Israel and how many enemies outside Israel? They know that most of the world is against them, and more countries turn against them all the time. That must be a worry.

It will only take an American president that is anti Israel to take away the shield that the US presently offers. When that happens, there will be a lot of Jewish Israelis quite sorry they didn't make good neighbours when they had the opportunity.

The POTUS does not need to be anti-Israel, just pro-self determination for an oppressed and occupied people.

[thaibeachlovers]

No need to struggle if only Israel recognizes the Palestinian State. The ball is in your court israel.

So naive it isn't even funny.

Perhaps, but how many Jews in Israel and how many enemies outside Israel? They know that most of the world is against them, and more countries turn against them all the time. That must be a worry.

It will only take an American president that is anti Israel to take away the shield that the US presently offers. When that happens, there will be a lot of Jewish Israelis quite sorry they didn't make good neighbours when they had the opportunity.

The POTUS does not need to be anti-Israel, just pro-self determination for an oppressed and occupied people.

Nothing will change as long as the US shields them in the UN and keeps sending them weapons and ammunition.

Only if the POTUS threatens ( and means it ) to turn off the pro Israeli tap will Israel agree to the 2 state solution and withdraws from illegally occupied land.

[Seastallion]

Perhaps, but how many Jews in Israel and how many enemies outside Israel? They know that most of the world is against them, and more countries turn against them all the time. That must be a worry.

It will only take an American president that is anti Israel to take away the shield that the US presently offers. When that happens, there will be a lot of Jewish Israelis quite sorry they didn't make good neighbours when they had the opportunity.

The POTUS does not need to be anti-Israel, just pro-self determination for an oppressed and occupied people.

Nothing will change as long as the US shields them in the UN and keeps sending them weapons and ammunition.

Only if the POTUS threatens ( and means it ) to turn off the pro Israeli tap will Israel agree to the 2 state solution and withdraws from illegally occupied land.

I agree. Everybody knows that to be true.

My point is that you don't have to be anti-Israel to do the right thing by the Palestinians. There's anti, there's pro, and there's impartial fairness.

It's all too easy to fall into the Bush, "You're either with us or against us" type of mindset, and Israel loves the world having that black or white view. It plays to their victim card game. If you're not pro-Israel, you are antisemite.

[ABCer]

I think the tournament we are observing in this thread is far too heated. Too many spears are broken. Yet there are no victors because there can be no defeats.

There is no way to prove to any member with his mind set that he is wrong. Examples:

1. One says 500 "Palestinian" children were killed by IDF. Did you count each of them? Are you sure it was not 499? Or 501? "Palestinian" propaganda is the source.

2. One says that "Everybody knows that to be true". I do not even care to know what is this sentence about. Because this is a typical slogan used by unscrupulous on unwise.

3. Now, how do you like a piece of garbage like: - "There's anti, there's pro and there's impartial fairness" ? There is no such things! Nothing is impartial. Nothing is fair. One man's food is another man's poison.

4. Or a desperate question of what is UN now? It does not have teeth. It does not have muscle. It does not have even a head! It is a bunch of self serving officials not knowing where they are, what for and any sense of direction.

The majority of UN distinguished members would be eating each other and selling their captives into slavery if there was a big enough market. A Relic, an Atavism on the body of Humanity, - this is UN IMHO.

Unlike many posters here I do not know the Truth. I do not know what is Fair. But I know the Facts.

The fact is - there is a War in Palestine! People die in this war. Children die too. Especially when the glorious Intifada soldiers use schools and mosques as bases for their operations.

The fact is - Israeli would like to have Peace. But they will never get it. Because the only way to achieve Peace is total removal of the opposition! And though Israelis have the strength to do this they have no guts to do it.

The fact is - I am neither fair nor impartial. I wish Israel to be victorious. Because the whole World is getting a lot of benefits from them and nothing but troubles from Arabs. Yes, yes, this is a fact!

The fact is - Jews had Israel two thousands years ago. They do have it now. And despite the hopes of their enemies they will have it in 500 years! Unless a total destruction of this World comes first.

And if the "Armageddon" comes - Jews will be the last to leave. They will be the ones to put lights out.

I would advise to all the haters of Jews, Zionists, Israelis to understand this.

Edited September 27, 2015 by ABCer

[Pakboong]

So tell me, where does it state that the UN allows confiscating land as spoils of war?

So tell me, who or what is this UN? Is it some busybodies that think they have a right to tell a country what to do? What teeth does this UN have?

You have a problem. Israel is in possession of its ancient homeland including Old Jerusalem and it won't let go. There's no one big enough or with the guts to try to make it let go.

Why don't you just give it up? The Arabs rejected any deal offered by this "UN" and instead went to war against Israel and lost.

There never was and still isn't a country or a people called Palestine or Palestinians. Never. Ever.

There was and is an ancient Israel and Old Jerusalem and Israel has it. They aren't going to let go.

All of the losers posting here are just whiners. Sore losers they are. Crying to this imaginary UN? What's that about? There's some toothless body that meets in NYC and can't agree on much but it's useless.

Get all of your Muslim buddies together and go try to take E. Jerusalem. Just don't forget to tell us what you'd like to have carved into your tombstone.

[Pakboong]

1887

[Pakboong]

[dexterm]

I think the tournament we are observing in this thread is far too heated. Too many spears are broken. Yet there are no victors because there can be no defeats.

There is no way to prove to any member with his mind set that he is wrong. Examples:

1. One says 500 "Palestinian" children were killed by IDF. Did you count each of them? Are you sure it was not 499? Or 501? "Palestinian" propaganda is the source.

2. One says that "Everybody knows that to be true". I do not even care to know what is this sentence about. Because this is a typical slogan used by unscrupulous on unwise.

3. Now, how do you like a piece of garbage like: - "There's anti, there's pro and there's impartial fairness" ? There is no such things! Nothing is impartial. Nothing is fair. One man's food is another man's poison.

4. Or a desperate question of what is UN now? It does not have teeth. It does not have muscle. It does not have even a head! It is a bunch of self serving officials not knowing where they are, what for and any sense of direction.

The majority of UN distinguished members would be eating each other and selling their captives into slavery if there was a big enough market. A Relic, an Atavism on the body of Humanity, - this is UN IMHO.

Unlike many posters here I do not know the Truth. I do not know what is Fair. But I know the Facts.

The fact is - there is a War in Palestine! People die in this war. Children die too. Especially when the glorious Intifada soldiers use schools and mosques as bases for their operations.

The fact is - Israeli would like to have Peace. But they will never get it. Because the only way to achieve Peace is total removal of the opposition! And though Israelis have the strength to do this they have no guts to do it.

The fact is - I am neither fair nor impartial. I wish Israel to be victorious. Because the whole World is getting a lot of benefits from them and nothing but troubles from Arabs. Yes, yes, this is a fact!

The fact is - Jews had Israel two thousands years ago. They do have it now. And despite the hopes of their enemies they will have it in 500 years! Unless a total destruction of this World comes first.

And if the "Armageddon" comes - Jews will be the last to leave. They will be the ones to put lights out.

I would advise to all the haters of Jews, Zionists, Israelis to understand this.

You contradict yourself. You criticize the use of the "sweeping statement" fallacy, then you yourself proceed with a series of sweeping statements presenting your opinions masquerading as "facts" ... in your imagination.

Back to the OP.

The way for Zionists to stop having stones thrown at them in the Occupied Territories, is to remove themselves from the land they are illegally occupying where the existing residents are resisting their invaders as best they can. Simple.

[ABCer]

I think the tournament we are observing in this thread is far too heated. Too many spears are broken. Yet there are no victors because there can be no defeats.

There is no way to prove to any member with his mind set that he is wrong. Examples:

1. One says 500 "Palestinian" children were killed by IDF. Did you count each of them? Are you sure it was not 499? Or 501? "Palestinian" propaganda is the source.

2. One says that "Everybody knows that to be true". I do not even care to know what is this sentence about. Because this is a typical slogan used by unscrupulous on unwise.

3. Now, how do you like a piece of garbage like: - "There's anti, there's pro and there's impartial fairness" ? There is no such things! Nothing is impartial. Nothing is fair. One man's food is another man's poison.

4. Or a desperate question of what is UN now? It does not have teeth. It does not have muscle. It does not have even a head! It is a bunch of self serving officials not knowing where they are, what for and any sense of direction.

The majority of UN distinguished members would be eating each other and selling their captives into slavery if there was a big enough market. A Relic, an Atavism on the body of Humanity, - this is UN IMHO.

Unlike many posters here I do not know the Truth. I do not know what is Fair. But I know the Facts.

The fact is - there is a War in Palestine! People die in this war. Children die too. Especially when the glorious Intifada soldiers use schools and mosques as bases for their operations.

The fact is - Israeli would like to have Peace. But they will never get it. Because the only way to achieve Peace is total removal of the opposition! And though Israelis have the strength to do this they have no guts to do it.

The fact is - I am neither fair nor impartial. I wish Israel to be victorious. Because the whole World is getting a lot of benefits from them and nothing but troubles from Arabs. Yes, yes, this is a fact!

The fact is - Jews had Israel two thousands years ago. They do have it now. And despite the hopes of their enemies they will have it in 500 years! Unless a total destruction of this World comes first.

And if the "Armageddon" comes - Jews will be the last to leave. They will be the ones to put lights out.

I would advise to all the haters of Jews, Zionists, Israelis to understand this.

You contradict yourself. You criticize the use of the "sweeping statement" fallacy, then you yourself proceed with a series of sweeping statements presenting your opinions masquerading as "facts" ... in your imagination.

Back to the OP.

The way for Zionists to stop having stones thrown at them in the Occupied Territories, is to remove themselves from the land they are illegally occupying where the existing residents are resisting their invaders as best they can. Simple.

My 'opinions masquerading as facts ... in my imagination': -

There is War in Palestine. People die in this war. Children die too. ... Intifada soldiers use schools and mosques as bases... not facts! Just figment of my imagination!

Israel wants peace ... Just figment of my imagination! AND in giving away the whole of Sinai for a piece of paper that can be annuled any time. They will never get it ... only in my opinion AND in 2000 year history!

I am not impartial. I am biased. I want Israelis to win... can't you even allow me the knowledge of facts about myself?

Jews had Israel 2000 years ago... do you call this my imagination? Or is the existence of Israel now that I imagine?

Come on, dexterm! You can make a better argument.

On the other hand you are a perfect example of my assertion: - "There is no way to prove to any member with his mind set that he is wrong."

And your mind is set in stone like that of "Palestinians" - NO Israel, or bust! ... so bust they are just like you with your wishful thinking.

Edited September 27, 2015 by ABCer

[dexterm]

I think the tournament we are observing in this thread is far too heated. Too many spears are broken. Yet there are no victors because there can be no defeats.

There is no way to prove to any member with his mind set that he is wrong. Examples:

1. One says 500 "Palestinian" children were killed by IDF. Did you count each of them? Are you sure it was not 499? Or 501? "Palestinian" propaganda is the source.

2. One says that "Everybody knows that to be true". I do not even care to know what is this sentence about. Because this is a typical slogan used by unscrupulous on unwise.

3. Now, how do you like a piece of garbage like: - "There's anti, there's pro and there's impartial fairness" ? There is no such things! Nothing is impartial. Nothing is fair. One man's food is another man's poison.

4. Or a desperate question of what is UN now? It does not have teeth. It does not have muscle. It does not have even a head! It is a bunch of self serving officials not knowing where they are, what for and any sense of direction.

The majority of UN distinguished members would be eating each other and selling their captives into slavery if there was a big enough market. A Relic, an Atavism on the body of Humanity, - this is UN IMHO.

Unlike many posters here I do not know the Truth. I do not know what is Fair. But I know the Facts.

The fact is - there is a War in Palestine! People die in this war. Children die too. Especially when the glorious Intifada soldiers use schools and mosques as bases for their operations.

The fact is - Israeli would like to have Peace. But they will never get it. Because the only way to achieve Peace is total removal of the opposition! And though Israelis have the strength to do this they have no guts to do it.

The fact is - I am neither fair nor impartial. I wish Israel to be victorious. Because the whole World is getting a lot of benefits from them and nothing but troubles from Arabs. Yes, yes, this is a fact!

The fact is - Jews had Israel two thousands years ago. They do have it now. And despite the hopes of their enemies they will have it in 500 years! Unless a total destruction of this World comes first.

And if the "Armageddon" comes - Jews will be the last to leave. They will be the ones to put lights out.

I would advise to all the haters of Jews, Zionists, Israelis to understand this.

You contradict yourself. You criticize the use of the "sweeping statement" fallacy, then you yourself proceed with a series of sweeping statements presenting your opinions masquerading as "facts" ... in your imagination.

Back to the OP.

The way for Zionists to stop having stones thrown at them in the Occupied Territories, is to remove themselves from the land they are illegally occupying where the existing residents are resisting their invaders as best they can. Simple.

My 'opinions masquerading as facts ... in my imagination': -

There is War in Palestine. People die in this war. Children die too. ... Intifada soldiers use schools and mosques as bases... not facts! Just figment of my imagination!

Israel wants peace ... Just figment of my imagination! AND in giving away the whole of Sinai for a piece of paper that can be annuled any time. They will never get it ... only in my opinion AND in 2000 year history!

I am not impartial. I am biased. I want Israelis to win... can't you even allow me the knowledge of facts about myself?

Jews had Israel 2000 years ago... do you call this my imagination? Or is the existence of Israel now that I imagine?

Come on, dexterm! You can make a better argument.

On the other hand you are a perfect example of my assertion: - "There is no way to prove to any member with his mind set that he is wrong."

And your mind is set in stone like that of "Palestinians" - NO Israel, or bust! ... so bust they are just like you with your wishful thinking.

You create the straw man fallacy that all Palestinians and I want is “No Israel or bust”..then proceed to attack the argument you just made up.

Far from it. I would love to see Israel prosper side by side with its neighbors in a just 2 state solution. It is the only way Israel will have a permanent peace within fixed borders, because the whole world will recognize such an agreement. It is btw the only way Israel can preserve its Jewish character or even preserve Israel’s existence at all:

One state solution including 4.5 million Palestinians, who would outbreed and outvote Israeli Jews = end of Israel.

One state solution excluding 4.5 million Palestinians by ethnically cleansing them, would trigger EU sanctions = end of Israel economically.

The current draconian anti stone throwing legislation..use of live rounds against children, ..may be the deliberate provocation of another intifada .. a pretext manufactured to allow Israel to do something even more drastic. But the whole world is watching this time.

Israel wants peace ... Just a figment of my imagination!

..it certainly is under the current right wing Netanyahu government at least.

The whole Arab world (Hamas included) and Iran have agreed to recognize Israel in its 67 borders ...a permanent, secure internationally recognized peace agreement, exchange of ambassadors, trade, tourism, the works. The deal has been on the table since 2002, and repeated in 2007. Read about it here..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

The problem has always been: Will Israel in return accept a state of Palestine within the 67 borders?

We have already come close to a deal twice already. If only Bill Clinton had stayed just a few more days to cajole and bang heads together at Camp David in 2000, we could have had peace now for the last 15 years.

It will only take a more sensible forward looking Israeli government such as the Zionist Union to accept the olive branch.

Perhaps Hilary will be able to take up where Bill left off.

[Steely Dan]

A blow for Jewish history deniers, in spite of perhaps the largest act of archeological vandalism ever by the Waqf, desperate to destroy all evidence of a Jewish presence at the site of the first temple. P.s Historical maps of Palestine show a Roman named province containing the place the Jews lived.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/foreign-policy/middle-east/israel/archeology-seal-jewish-history/

In recent weeks, the conflict over the Temple Mount in Jerusalem has heated up. Palestinians have grown increasingly violent in their effort to prevent Jews from entering the site of the two Biblical Temples that constitutes the holiest spot in Judaism. Though the state of Israel has left in place rules that prevent Jews from praying there, the Arab states and the United Nations regard the desire of Jews to visit the compound as an insult to Islam. Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas has called upon his people to resist the efforts of Israelis to “desecrate” holy places with “their stinking Jewish feet.” This effort to whip up Arab hate against the Jews, is a cynical act that has several precedents in Palestinian history that inevitably led to the shedding of Jewish blood. But while Israeli efforts to stop the uptick in terror in Jerusalem are being met with unfair criticism, the truth about the struggle over the sacred plateau is best illustrated by the news of a startling archeological discovery.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Steely Dan

[Jingthing]

Of course, Dan.

The obsessive Israel demonizers continue to push the big lie that Jews are invading "white people" who have colonized Israel and oppressed the "non-white" people, when Jews are actually INDIGENOUS PEOPLE of Israel. The connection of the land of Israel to the Jewish people is for real and without question.

Diaspora Jews throughout the ages have said Next Year in Jerusalem.

Not Next Year in Boca Raton.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

I think the tournament we are observing in this thread is far too heated. Too many spears are broken. Yet there are no victors because there can be no defeats.

There is no way to prove to any member with his mind set that he is wrong. Examples:

1. One says 500 "Palestinian" children were killed by IDF. Did you count each of them? Are you sure it was not 499? Or 501? "Palestinian" propaganda is the source.

2. One says that "Everybody knows that to be true". I do not even care to know what is this sentence about. Because this is a typical slogan used by unscrupulous on unwise.

3. Now, how do you like a piece of garbage like: - "There's anti, there's pro and there's impartial fairness" ? There is no such things! Nothing is impartial. Nothing is fair. One man's food is another man's poison.

4. Or a desperate question of what is UN now? It does not have teeth. It does not have muscle. It does not have even a head! It is a bunch of self serving officials not knowing where they are, what for and any sense of direction.

The majority of UN distinguished members would be eating each other and selling their captives into slavery if there was a big enough market. A Relic, an Atavism on the body of Humanity, - this is UN IMHO.

Unlike many posters here I do not know the Truth. I do not know what is Fair. But I know the Facts.

The fact is - there is a War in Palestine! People die in this war. Children die too. Especially when the glorious Intifada soldiers use schools and mosques as bases for their operations.

The fact is - Israeli would like to have Peace. But they will never get it. Because the only way to achieve Peace is total removal of the opposition! And though Israelis have the strength to do this they have no guts to do it.

The fact is - I am neither fair nor impartial. I wish Israel to be victorious. Because the whole World is getting a lot of benefits from them and nothing but troubles from Arabs. Yes, yes, this is a fact!

The fact is - Jews had Israel two thousands years ago. They do have it now. And despite the hopes of their enemies they will have it in 500 years! Unless a total destruction of this World comes first.

And if the "Armageddon" comes - Jews will be the last to leave. They will be the ones to put lights out.

I would advise to all the haters of Jews, Zionists, Israelis to understand this.

You contradict yourself. You criticize the use of the "sweeping statement" fallacy, then you yourself proceed with a series of sweeping statements presenting your opinions masquerading as "facts" ... in your imagination.

Back to the OP.

The way for Zionists to stop having stones thrown at them in the Occupied Territories, is to remove themselves from the land they are illegally occupying where the existing residents are resisting their invaders as best they can. Simple.

My 'opinions masquerading as facts ... in my imagination': -

There is War in Palestine. People die in this war. Children die too. ... Intifada soldiers use schools and mosques as bases... not facts! Just figment of my imagination!

Israel wants peace ... Just figment of my imagination! AND in giving away the whole of Sinai for a piece of paper that can be annuled any time. They will never get it ... only in my opinion AND in 2000 year history!

I am not impartial. I am biased. I want Israelis to win... can't you even allow me the knowledge of facts about myself?

Jews had Israel 2000 years ago... do you call this my imagination? Or is the existence of Israel now that I imagine?

Come on, dexterm! You can make a better argument.

On the other hand you are a perfect example of my assertion: - "There is no way to prove to any member with his mind set that he is wrong."

And your mind is set in stone like that of "Palestinians" - NO Israel, or bust! ... so bust they are just like you with your wishful thinking.

What has 2000 years ago got to do with anything? Should all Euro Americans go home because the native Americans owned the north American continent 2,000 years ago?

Should the Norman descendents leave Britain and go back to France, etc etc etc?

Occupation of land 2,000 years ago confers nothing on present day peoples.

[Scott]

Troll post and replies removed.

[Morch]

What has 2000 years ago got to do with anything? Should all Euro Americans go home because the native Americans owned the north American continent 2,000 years ago?

Should the Norman descendents leave Britain and go back to France, etc etc etc?

Occupation of land 2,000 years ago confers nothing on present day peoples.

This argument can be played both ways - if history is deemed irrelevant (or at least, unrealistically reversible), then basically "ownership" claims boil down to conditions (economical, social, political...whatever), and having the capability (or will) to make things happen.

Of course, it has a lot to do with the perceived "statuette of limitations" of such things - 2000 years? 500 years? A hundred? And, of course, who decides? Most times this would be dependent on each side's agenda and narrative, rather than based on some agreed upon principals.

Stating the historical background (and yes, culture and religion are a part of that) is useful for better understanding of the connection between people and land. That said, it does not necessarily have to be a very compelling argument for the opposition and its supporters. Getting bogged down in historical (or more often, pseudo-historical) debate on these issues usually does little to promote conflict resolution, and more often leads to each side digging heels or even moving further away from any common ground. The situation would possibly be better served by a temporary suspension of historical justification, which might allow dealing with more tangible issues pertaining to the conflict. Little hope for that, though, even on TVF.

Most cases, these things are not resolved based on "rights", but in accordance with contemporary conditions. The "rights" are secondary, in the sense that they do not, by themselves, affect the wished for change.

Back on topic:

Throwing rocks at traffic is a life-endangering act. Those wishing to claim otherwise are welcome to try it at home. There were a few cases of this in Thailand - Ayutthaya and Bangkok spring to mind. If I remember correctly, no one in his right mind condoned or justified it at the time. Matter of fact, kinda recall a popular notion was to stone the culprits when caught...

There is not good way for Israel, international public-opinion-wise, to deal with the rock throwing issue on an operative level. The Israeli government recognizes this, but given that the allowing the current state of things to carry on is not acceptable, and with its voter base displeasure augmented by general public sentiment - it might not have a lot of maneuvering space (from their point of view). The bad news, for the Israelis, are that even with enhanced enforcement and stricter rules, this isn't very likely to go away. The newly announced candidate for the Chief of Police post would probably play a significant part in tackling these issues.

As for the Palestinian leadership(s?) - a bit like playing with fire. Abbas cannot. due to political considerations, publicly go against it or even attempt to calm things down. He's already in hot water over a documented action of the Palestinian security forces against Palestinian demonstrators (part of them security cooperation agreements and understandings, which survive each crisis), and his public support is not much even on a good day. Worse, it is not even certain that he can actually do much about it. Many of those partaking do not answer to the Fatah or the PA, and many are not even well organized. Therefore, Abbas attempts to weather the storm, using it as much as possible without sinking the boat. The Hamas position is supportive of rock throwing in general, and this is no exception. While outright mayhem is probably not on their wishlist for this winter, some strife with religious connotations is welcome. Trouble is that their control over these things is tenuous as well, and that the fanning of the flames might have undesired results.

Oh, and without pointing fingers, the page width format for this topic seems to be messed up (or it could be just me). Mods?