Ukraine to ban Russian airlines from flying into the country

[Lite Beer]

Ukraine to ban Russian airlines from flying into the country

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine's prime minister says Russian airlines will be banned from flying into the country, the latest attempt to put pressure on Russia as the conflict in eastern Ukraine grinds on.

Ukraine also will ban Russian planes from using Ukrainian airspace for transit flights if the planes are believed to be carrying military personnel or materiel or dual-use goods.

Ukraine and NATO accuse Russia of sending troops and weapons to separatist rebels in the east, a charge Russia denies.

Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said Friday the ban was in accordance with sanctions drawn up by the National Security and Defense Council. A statement from the ministry of infrastructure said it would take effect Oct. 25.

Russian Transportation Minister Maxim Sokolov said Russia would take countermeasures if the flight ban is enforced.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-09-26

[Barin]

This is not a wise decision, what do you think?

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6505681/

Edited September 27, 2015 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal. Use Arial font, size 14 when posting.

[Tubby]

great idea, Russia assisted in the murder of people on the airline plane that was shot down. Ukraine is full of Russians. Let them feel the pain. anything to pressure this bully country.

[craigt3365]

This is not a wise decision, what do you think?

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6505681/

Ukraine is in pretty bad shape. Primarily from Russia's invasions. Hard to blame them for this.

If Russia gets out of Ukraine territory, I'm sure this ban would be lifted. Along with other sanctions placed on Russia by many countries around the world due to their invasion.

[Barin]

This is not a wise decision, what do you think?

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6505681/

Ukraine is in pretty bad shape. Primarily from Russia's invasions. Hard to blame them for this.

If Russia gets out of Ukraine territory, I'm sure this ban would be lifted. Along with other sanctions placed on Russia by many countries around the world due to their invasion.

Actually Russia does not care very much about the Ukrainian sanctions, and as far as this particular ban is concerned, the experts at the AIRLINERS.NET forum say:

"This is set to start at the end of October, but somehow me thinks there's a large chance this will not get implemented. And if it does, rest assured this will hurt Ukraine way more than it will hurt Russia."

Edited September 27, 2015 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal. Use Arial font, size 14 when posting.

[stevenl]

This is not a wise decision, what do you think?

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6505681/

Ukraine is in pretty bad shape. Primarily from Russia's invasions. Hard to blame them for this.

If Russia gets out of Ukraine territory, I'm sure this ban would be lifted. Along with other sanctions placed on Russia by many countries around the world due to their invasion.

Actually Russia does not care very much about the Ukrainian sanctions, and as far as this particular ban is concerned, the experts at the AIRLINERS.NET forum say:

"This is set to start at the end of October, but somehow me thinks there's a large chance this will not get implemented. And if it does, rest assured this will hurt Ukraine way more than it will hurt Russia."

You mean 'one poster there says ...'. He could be wrong and may even be right, but that won't change that sometimes one has to suffer himself for doing the right thing.

[craigt3365]

This is not a wise decision, what do you think?

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6505681/

Ukraine is in pretty bad shape. Primarily from Russia's invasions. Hard to blame them for this.

If Russia gets out of Ukraine territory, I'm sure this ban would be lifted. Along with other sanctions placed on Russia by many countries around the world due to their invasion.

Actually Russia does not care very much about the Ukrainian sanctions, and as far as this particular ban is concerned, the experts at the AIRLINERS.NET forum say:

"This is set to start at the end of October, but somehow me thinks there's a large chance this will not get implemented. And if it does, rest assured this will hurt Ukraine way more than it will hurt Russia."

I'm sure Russia does not care about the ban. Though I bet many Russian nationals inside Ukraine will feel the brunt of this. Just as Ukrainians have felt the brunt of Russia's invasion in Crimea. As always, the average citizen hurts while the rich and powerful do silly things. I.E. Putin.

[Barin]

great idea, Russia assisted in the murder of people on the airline plane that was shot down. Ukraine is full of Russians. Let them feel the pain. anything to pressure this bully country.

Actually there is a proof that MH17 may have been shot down by the Ukraine Army by mistake.

All reputable news sources:

BBC.COM (“British Broadcasting Corporation”, London)

NEWS.COM.AU (Australia’s number one news site)

newswire.net (Newswire Network Ltd., United States)

FT.COM (“Financial Times”, London)

Ukraine Army has already made such terrible mistakes in the past shooting civilian airplanes: wikipedia.org

[Scott]

Please stay on topic. The shooting down of the airplane has been discussed on other threads.

[Sam Jones]

This is not a wise decision, what do you think?

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6505681/

I think the Western World incl. Ukraine of course should ban everything thats russian - more sanctions would be nice ...

Russia is the force of evil

[Publicus]

This is expected to cost Putin and Russia 500 million rubbles rubles a month to add to their minus-5% GDP so far this year. Putin called Prez Obama a couple of months ago and now the two will meet Monday during the UNGA sessions in New York City.

It's been suggested Prez Obama offer Xi Jinping refugee status as an economically displaced person while Xi is in Washington, so maybe Barack can make the same offer to Vlad.

This airlines thing is to twist Vlad's arm more and higher up his back because it clobbers Russia and the ruble at a time of severe vulnerability.

"The airlines will be blocked from entering and flying through Ukraine to European countries. In turn, flying via other routes will be more costly for Russian airlines. “That will certainly lead to significant loses to the Russian airlines, essentially to the whole Russian airlines industry,” Marchenko says.

"The main pain will be felt by Russian airlines even if Ukraine faces a backlash from Russia, since routes to European countries will be more costly. “That would probably be the most lost that would cost the Russian airlines industry,” Marchenko says.

"Russia airlines transferred 303,000 customers to Ukraine and received 287,000 people during the January-June period of this year, Russia’s Tasun said on Sept. 25, Interfax news reports."

https://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/ukraine-will-ban-some-russian-airlines-398687.html

[Barin]

This is expected to cost Putin and Russia 500 million rubbles rubles a month to add to their minus-5% GDP so far this year. Putin called Prez Obama a couple of months ago and now the two will meet Monday during the UNGA sessions in New York City.

It's been suggested Prez Obama offer Xi Jinping refugee status as an economically displaced person while Xi is in Washington, so maybe Barack can make the same offer to Vlad.

This airlines thing is to twist Vlad's arm more and higher up his back because it clobbers Russia and the ruble at a time of severe vulnerability.

"The airlines will be blocked from entering and flying through Ukraine to European countries. In turn, flying via other routes will be more costly for Russian airlines. “That will certainly lead to significant loses to the Russian airlines, essentially to the whole Russian airlines industry,” Marchenko says.

"The main pain will be felt by Russian airlines even if Ukraine faces a backlash from Russia, since routes to European countries will be more costly. “That would probably be the most lost that would cost the Russian airlines industry,” Marchenko says.

"Russia airlines transferred 303,000 customers to Ukraine and received 287,000 people during the January-June period of this year, Russia’s Tasun said on Sept. 25, Interfax news reports."

https://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/ukraine-will-ban-some-russian-airlines-398687.html

Russia signalled on Monday it might ban Western airlines from flying over its territory as part of an "asymmetrical" response to new European Union sanctions over the Ukraine crisis.

Blaming the West for damaging the Russian economy by triggering "stupid" sanctions, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said Moscow would press on with measures to reduce reliance on imports, starting with increasing output of domestic aircraft.

Medvedev suggested Russia should have hit back harder over the action by the United States and European Union to punish Moscow for its role in Ukraine, saying it had been too patient in the worst confrontation with the West since the Cold War.

"If there are sanctions related to the energy sector, or further restrictions on Russia's financial sector, we will have to respond asymmetrically," he told Russian daily Vedomosti, adding the airlines of "friendly countries" were allowed to fly over Russia.

"If Western carriers have to bypass our airspace, this could drive many struggling airlines into bankruptcy. This is not the way to go. We just hope our partners realise this at some point," he said in the interview published on Monday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/08/us-ukraine-crisis-medvedev-idUSKBN0H309G20140908

Responding to Ukraine's ban announcement, Russian officials said they would be forced to take adequate measures.

Dmirty Peskov, a spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin, said - that if implemented - such a ban would be "another act of madness".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34365791

In response, Russian Transport Minister Maxim Sokolov said later that day that Moscow would be forced to retaliate if the restrictions went into effect.

http://www.dw.com/en/russia-says-it-would-retaliate-after-ukraine-airline-ban/a-18742394

Edited September 26, 2015 by Barin

[RuamRudy]

Russia signalled on Monday it might ban Western airlines from flying over its territory as part of an "asymmetrical" response to new European Union sanctions over the Ukraine crisis.

Blaming the West for damaging the Russian economy by triggering "stupid" sanctions, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said Moscow would press on with measures to reduce reliance on imports, starting with increasing output of domestic aircraft.

Medvedev suggested Russia should have hit back harder over the action by the United States and European Union to punish Moscow for its role in Ukraine, saying it had been too patient in the worst confrontation with the West since the Cold War.

"If there are sanctions related to the energy sector, or further restrictions on Russia's financial sector, we will have to respond asymmetrically," he told Russian daily Vedomosti, adding the airlines of "friendly countries" were allowed to fly over Russia.

"If Western carriers have to bypass our airspace, this could drive many struggling airlines into bankruptcy. This is not the way to go. We just hope our partners realise this at some point," he said in the interview published on Monday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/08/us-ukraine-crisis-medvedev-idUSKBN0H309G20140908

Responding to Ukraine's ban announcement, Russian officials said they would be forced to take adequate measures.

Dmirty Peskov, a spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin, said - that if implemented - such a ban would be "another act of madness".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34365791

In response, Russian Transport Minister Maxim Sokolov said later that day that Moscow would be forced to retaliate if the restrictions went into effect.

http://www.dw.com/en/russia-says-it-would-retaliate-after-ukraine-airline-ban/a-18742394

What do you see as an alternative to sanctions? The facts are clear - Russia invaded a sovereign country and ilegally annexed a considerable part of it, and continue to support an armed insurrection within it. Should the rest of the world sit back and do nothing while Russia bullies and plunders?

We have more than enough wars around the world for anyone to want more, but I think the west is fully correct to put pressure on the Duma to start to behave like a responsible first world government. I am only disappointed that they don't put a little effort into freezing all the secret overseas bank accounts of Putin, Medvedev etc - maybe return the stolen billions to the people of Russia.

[Barin]

This is not a wise decision, what do you think?

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6505681/

I think the Western World incl. Ukraine of course should ban everything thats russian - more sanctions would be nice ...

Russia is the force of evil

MOSCOW // Russia’s prime minister warned yesterday that Russia could block overflights between Europe and Asia in retaliation for Western sanctions.

Dmitry Medvedev said the Russian government was considering a series of measures in response to Western sanctions that shut down the country’s first low-cost airline.

“First is a ban on using the airspace of our country for transit flights by European and US airlines in the ... Asia-Pacific region,” said Mr Medvedev.

http://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/russia-threatens-to-block-airspace-in-response-to-sanctions

Edited September 27, 2015 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[Publicus]

There are a couple of things here.

One is that it's interesting PM Medvedev is involved in the 'and I'll raise you another ban' chit-chat going on while Putin has been content to nod. Putin Monday will meet with Prez Obama one to one at the UN so let's see if anything that might affect this might come out of that.

Another factor is that many airlines have been flying a different route since the Malaysia passenger plane got shot down in a popular air route between Europe and East Asia. Another consideration is that since the Malaysia air disaster only one airline has gone bust, which was an Aeroflot startup low-cost carrier between Moscow and Crimea.

Russia would also be disproportionately hurt by any tit-for-tat move from the European Union to close its own airspace to Aeroflot and peers, said Oliver Sleath, a Barclays Plc analyst in London.

“This is extremely unlikely to happen because the response would be more crippling to the Russian economy,” Sleath said. Russian flights that cross EU airspace outnumber European carriers’ trips over Siberia, he said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-05/eu-airlines-could-suffer-from-russian-airspace-sanctions

The EU's nuclear option against Putin and Russia is the SWIFT electronic cyber banking system in Brussels that processes $6 Trillion a day. A lot of the EU want to separate Russia from SWIFT to include a one-sided vote by the European Parliament. The SWIFT financial nuclear option would bring down the Russian economy in a matter of months. The ayatollahs in Tehran went running to the negotiating table several months after Iran had been expelled from SWIFT by the EU.

Medvedev said last year that if the EU executes the SWIFT option Moscow will sever diplomatic relations with Europe and the United States, so we'd have to see how far this might go.

German media reported two days ago the United States and Germany have privately committed to placing 20 of the B61-12 generation of guided nuclear bombs at Beuchel Air Base in Germany. This is a report that has managed to catch Putin's attention. Fact is US SecDef Ashton Carter is the new sheriff in town and there's a new Marine General as chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

Germany’s ZDF public television network recently reported that the United States plans to deploy new atomic weapons and 20 nuclear bombs in Germany. The report indicated that Washington intends to retrofit German Tornado fighter aircrafts with 20 B61-12 nuclear bombs.

A related report from German Economic News indicated that Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkel seems supportive of the United States’ plan to increase its German-based nuclear arsenal against Russia.

The Russian government is evaluating the details of the plans of the United States to deploy nuclear bombs in Germany. Russia may decide to bring its newest Iskander-M tactical nuclear weapons to Kaliningrad if a valid threat exists, according Interfax news agency citing an unidentified source from military-diplomatic circles.

http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/09/nuclear-weapons-germany/

The first cold war was not for the weak of heart or the squeamish either as the brinkmanship during its several decades could be hair raising. This is now cold war redux.

Let's see what Putin and Obama might agree in New York Monday...might agree.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and replies removed. The topic is about Ukraine's ban on Russian flights.

Stick to the topic.

[bangon04]

The Ukrainians may declare that Russian aircraft are banned from Ukrainian airspace, but

- there is some dispute about which airspace is Ukrainian...

- if the US is not able to prevent Russian (military) aircraft from violating NATO airspace, what realistically can the Ukrainians do about it? Shoot down a few Aeroflot airliners to teach them a lesson?

Edited September 27, 2015 by bangon04

[losworld]

Russia signalled on Monday it might ban Western airlines from flying over its territory as part of an "asymmetrical" response to new European Union sanctions over the Ukraine crisis.

Blaming the West for damaging the Russian economy by triggering "stupid" sanctions, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said Moscow would press on with measures to reduce reliance on imports, starting with increasing output of domestic aircraft.

Medvedev suggested Russia should have hit back harder over the action by the United States and European Union to punish Moscow for its role in Ukraine, saying it had been too patient in the worst confrontation with the West since the Cold War.

"If there are sanctions related to the energy sector, or further restrictions on Russia's financial sector, we will have to respond asymmetrically," he told Russian daily Vedomosti, adding the airlines of "friendly countries" were allowed to fly over Russia.

"If Western carriers have to bypass our airspace, this could drive many struggling airlines into bankruptcy. This is not the way to go. We just hope our partners realise this at some point," he said in the interview published on Monday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/08/us-ukraine-crisis-medvedev-idUSKBN0H309G20140908

Responding to Ukraine's ban announcement, Russian officials said they would be forced to take adequate measures.

Dmirty Peskov, a spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin, said - that if implemented - such a ban would be "another act of madness".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34365791

In response, Russian Transport Minister Maxim Sokolov said later that day that Moscow would be forced to retaliate if the restrictions went into effect.

http://www.dw.com/en/russia-says-it-would-retaliate-after-ukraine-airline-ban/a-18742394

What do you see as an alternative to sanctions? The facts are clear - Russia invaded a sovereign country and ilegally annexed a considerable part of it, and continue to support an armed insurrection within it. Should the rest of the world sit back and do nothing while Russia bullies and plunders?

We have more than enough wars around the world for anyone to want more, but I think the west is fully correct to put pressure on the Duma to start to behave like a responsible first world government. I am only disappointed that they don't put a little effort into freezing all the secret overseas bank accounts of Putin, Medvedev etc - maybe return the stolen billions to the people of Russia.

Come on its not that black and white. Nuland herself admitted to spending billions to foster a revolution in Ukraine and they used neo nazis to crate havoc. A lot more needs to be learned before making such definitive statements.

[ABCer]

I am sure that this decision of Ukraine can pave the way to new "accidental, unintentional or deliberate" shooting of any kind of airplanes, Russian or not.

Irrespective of the previous incidents.

And as a forecast or a warning this is very much relevant to OP.

This act of Ukraine is yet another shooting of her own leg in the list of many.

Not addressing the Nation, but speaking of the Government only - Ukraine is acting rather stupid.

There is an objective reason for this: - no experienced politicians and diplomats among their Government.

Edited September 27, 2015 by ABCer

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[Publicus]

Putin knows he has lost in Ukraine which is why he is moving on to mine the military-political landscape in Syria. As far as Putin is concerned, the less said or done about Ukraine the better. Ukraine however is not cooperating in the silence as Kiev takes actions designed to keep Ukraine in the forefront of UN, US and EU concerns.

So now if Putin closes fly-over routes in Siberia or eastern Russia to the EU and USA planes, he is very likely to lose all or most of the Russian commercial passenger industry. It can be that catastrophic to Russia and Putin.

Here's why:

Russia is using 703 foreign-made and 321 Russian made commercial jet aircraft ranging from passenger liners to cargo planes. More than half of the foreign-made jets are on lease from Western corporations, principally Boeing or EADS/Airbus. The leases provide that the issuer's national government can invalidate any or all leases by a declaration of an emergency or due a security concern stated by the government.

In such a development, Putin et al would lose use of more than half their commercial jet planes. Putin et al would also have a serious problem maintaining and insuring what remaining planes it would have available to use.

Putin and his gangster oligarchs know that if they impose fly-over sanctions against the West, or if they kick up again in Ukraine, Russia could effectively lose overnight its entire airline industry.

As reported last month by Deutsche Welle:

A low-cost subsidiary of Russia's state-owned airline, Aeroflot, suspended all its flights Monday, because Western sanctions had forced leasing deals for its aircraft to be canceled.

"Due to sanctions imposed by the EU ... we are forced to temporarily suspend flights on all routes from August 4, 2014," Dobrolet said in a statement on its website. The measures had nullified contracts under which Dobrolet leased Boeing 737-800 aircraft.

On Monday, the Moscow-based newspaper Kommersant wrote that the cancellations of Dobrolet's leases meant the political effect of the EU's sanctions had finally become apparent. "The EU has finally succeeded at demonstrating the effectiveness of its sanctions," it wrote.

(Emphasis added.)

http://www.dw.com/en/eu-sanctions-force-aeroflot-to-suspend-low-cost-airline/a-17830319

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=42721&no_cache=1#.VgpTafcdD5M

Putin yesterday got his requested meeting with Prez Obama but only to ask Obama to ease his grip on Putin's short hairs.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Smoooooch !

Putin says ‘differences can be resolved’ after meeting with Obama



NEW YORK: -- The first face-to-face meeting in almost a year has taken place between Russian President Vladimir Putin and US President Barack Obama. It happened on the side lines of the UN’s General Assembly and had been billed by some as the main event.

After the 90 minute talks President Putin told Russian journalists that the discussions had been very constructive and efficient. “We found we had a lot of points in common,” he said, “but we also have differences, it is nonsense to ignore that but it’s possible to work on the common ground together.”

-- © Copyright Euronews 2015-09-29

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed. Please only post the headline and the first 3 sentences and then a link to articles posted.