American expats -- do you plan to vote in the 2016 presidential elections while living in Thailand?

[Jingthing]

This thread and POLL is only meant for American expats in Thailand who plan on living in Thailand during the 2016 presidential elections of NOVEMBER 2016.

Not meant for partisan political debate but more of a general thread about participating in U.S. presidential elections while living abroad, or not.

Not meaning to judge either decision.

I think as an expat there are reasons to vote and there are also reasons not to vote.

For example, do you think as a registered voter, you're MORE LIKELY to get called for jury duty back in your last U.S. county of record?

Getting called for jury duty when you live abroad is a pain in the tuchus.

Personally I would favor MANDATORY voting for all U.S. citizens as in Australia, but as we don't have that, it really is a CHOICE.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[55Jay]

.......62,526, 62,527 aannnddddd, 62,528 posts. Ahhhh! Mission accomplished.

Edited September 30, 2015 by 55Jay

[vaultdweller0013]

For me getting called for jury duty wasn't a problem; however, I do have family in the US that was happy to fill in the form saying I am permanently living outside of the US. I can also say it wasn't voter registration that got me called as I wasn't registered in the juristiction that issued the notice at the time, but I did get a driver's license there shortly before being called.

Outside of this last time, and before I moved to Thailand, I have been called for jury duty 3 other times in two different states and was selected to sit on a trial in all 3 of the cases. I actually enjoyed it, but part of that is I got paid time off from my work to do it.

[mogoso]

I don't understand the getting paid for the time off from work. The best I received per day was from Federal jury duty $25 per day. County paid $15 I had a notice to report for jury duty on the 11th of the month, I left on the 6th. I guess there is a dusty arrest warrant laying around somewhere but maybe the statue of limitations has kicked in.

[GinBoy2]

I'm kinda torn whether to vote or just slither back under my rock, mumbling Plague on All of 'em.

Now of course a lot depends on what happens in the primaries.

The prospect of a President Trump/Cruz/Carson would be enough to make me want to slash my wrists. Kasich who is probably the last of the breed of Republican's of my youth stands a cat in Hells chance of getting the nomination, so on the Republican side, all I see is desperation, doom, despair, bigotry and a sizable dose of lunacy

Then of course we have the Democrats. Hilary will win the nomination except for some earth shattering email revelation, ya know something along the lines of she was having sex with Pratraus or an 18 year old intern, or better still she reveals herself as a lesbian. Bernie is I'm afraid too old and too principled to actually win, and in many ways I wouldn't like to see him savaged by the GOP attack dogs, aka The Kochs, in a general election.

So does Hilary excite me, well she's no Bill and certainly doesn't energize me to actually cast a vote

So will I vote? I am as yet undecided what to do

Edited September 30, 2015 by GinBoy2

[vaultdweller0013]

I don't understand the getting paid for the time off from work. The best I received per day was from Federal jury duty $25 per day. County paid $15 I had a notice to report for jury duty on the 11th of the month, I left on the 6th. I guess there is a dusty arrest warrant laying around somewhere but maybe the statue of limitations has kicked in.

It was the policy of my employer. In addition to the normal time off for vacation, sick-leave, etc., you also got up to 2 weeks paid while you were on jury duty. It was a nice policy so that people weren't penalized for something they couldn't control.

[Jingthing]

Again, this thread isn't intended to launch a PARTISAN political debate.

Go elsewhere for that, please.

Here is another thought about the the pros and cons of expat voting.

All expats can vote in their last U.S. district of record.

But if you've lived abroad, you probably don't care very much if at all about LOCAL politics in that area.

But you probably still care somewhat or a lot about NATIONAL politics.

So your vote can to the U.S. senators, U.S. congressperson, and of course PRESIDENT.

But suppose your last district of record is a heavily DEMOCRAT state and you're totally REPUBLICAN.

So you know your votes won't make any difference.

So why bother voting?

[mogandave]

Residing outside the jurisdiction exempts one from jury duty.

[Jingthing]

Residing outside the jurisdiction exempts one from jury duty.

Yes but if they send to a U.S. address you use you've got the hassle of proving to them that you're really exempt. This has happened to me twice already.

[CaptHaddock]

Again, this thread isn't intended to launch a PARTISAN political debate.

Go elsewhere for that, please.

Here is another thought about the the pros and cons of expat voting.

All expats can vote in their last U.S. district of record.

But if you've lived abroad, you probably don't care very much if at all about LOCAL politics in that area.

But you probably still care somewhat or a lot about NATIONAL politics.

So your vote can to the U.S. senators, U.S. congressperson, and of course PRESIDENT.

But suppose your last district of record is a heavily DEMOCRAT state and you're totally REPUBLICAN.

So you know your votes won't make any difference.

So why bother voting?

Some states use voting as evidence of an expat's intention to return to the state at some point and therefore deem them liable for state income tax since the time they left the state. So, that's a reason not to vote as an expat from a state with an income tax. In my case I would have to vote in NY state, which always votes Democrat in national elections. Since I would also vote Democrat my vote would have no impact. No impact + an undetermined risk of exposure to state income tax makes it an easy decision not to vote. If I could help swing Florida to the Democratic candidate, maybe I would consider it.

[khwaibah]

I have been voting absentee for 20 years and I sure as hell will not miss the up coming. Can't resist... GO DONALD GO.

[mogandave]

Voting does not make you liable for back taxes any more than having a driver license.

You're either liable or you're not.

[Jingthing]

Voting does not make you liable for back taxes any more than having a driver license.

You're either liable or you're not.

Each state has it's own criteria for determining if you're a state resident or not, for tax purposes. Some are more aggressive than others. But I agree having a driving license is much stronger evidence that you are than voting.

[anotheruser]

Again, this thread isn't intended to launch a PARTISAN political debate.

Go elsewhere for that, please.

Here is another thought about the the pros and cons of expat voting.

All expats can vote in their last U.S. district of record.

But if you've lived abroad, you probably don't care very much if at all about LOCAL politics in that area.

But you probably still care somewhat or a lot about NATIONAL politics.

So your vote can to the U.S. senators, U.S. congressperson, and of course PRESIDENT.

But suppose your last district of record is a heavily DEMOCRAT state and you're totally REPUBLICAN.

So you know your votes won't make any difference.

So why bother voting?

My understanding is that votes cast abroad aren't even counted unless the race is really close. I don't intend to vote and do not think it should ever be made mandatory to do so. The freedom to abstain from voting is a political choice which should be respected.

[Jingthing]

Really? Not counted? Link please.

[mogandave]

Voting does not make you liable for back taxes any more than having a driver license.

You're either liable or you're not.

Each state has it's own criteria for determining if you're a state resident or not, for tax purposes. Some are more aggressive than others. But I agree having a driving license is much stronger evidence that you are than voting.

It has been my experience that (generally) you pay taxes where you earn them. Where you reside has little to do with it.

I currently live and work (mostly) in Thailand but I am on the payroll of a California company.

I have California:

Address

Bank accounts

Driver license

Heath Insurance

Fishing license

Magazine subscriptions

Credit cards

I visit California for work and vacation 3-4 times a year, and I only have to pay taxes to California on the money I earn in California.

The idea that voting is going to make you liable for back taxes is ridiculous.

[CaptHaddock]

Voting does not make you liable for back taxes any more than having a driver license.

You're either liable or you're not.

Each state has it's own criteria for determining if you're a state resident or not, for tax purposes. Some are more aggressive than others. But I agree having a driving license is much stronger evidence that you are than voting.

It has been my experience that (generally) you pay taxes where you earn them. Where you reside has little to do with it.

I currently live and work (mostly) in Thailand but I am on the payroll of a California company.

I have California:

Address

Bank accounts

Driver license

Heath Insurance

Fishing license

Magazine subscriptions

Credit cards

I visit California for work and vacation 3-4 times a year, and I only have to pay taxes to California on the money I earn in California.

The idea that voting is going to make you liable for back taxes is ridiculous.

I guess if you yourself have never encountered an idea it must be ridiculous on the face of it, right?

Nevertheless, voting is usally a factor in determining where your tax domicile is. Here's just one example from the state of Utah:

Unless you can prove otherwise, you are considered to be a Utah resident in the following situations:

1. You claim your Utah home as your primary residence and receive a lower Utah property tax rate,
2. You are registered to vote in Utah,
3. You file an individual income tax return as a Utah resident.

http://incometax.utah.gov/filing/residency

That doesn't mean that if you register to vote in Utah you will immediately be sent a tax bill. That depends on how aggressive their enforcement is. The states all have different regulations and different standards of enforcement no matter how difficult you might find it to grasp that concept that clashes with your own common-sense notion of residence. Do I need to point out that you tax liability will not be determined by your own common-sense notions?

California, by the way, includes among the many factors it considers to determine whether you have tax domicile there such items as whether you hire CA professionals (lawyer, accountant) and, indeed, whether you have friends in California. CA is also among the most aggressive in enforcement.

It's quite possible that casting an absentee ballot in the last state you lived would not result in a tax bill at all. But, in my opinion, that possibility, however small, is not worth it to me.

[Jingthing]

I think it's being REGISTERED to vote (rather than voting) that is the more important factor, when it is a factor, which it probably sometimes is. As I've said each state looks at these issues differently.

[JAFO]

I do not Vote (Not in a negative or grumpy way). Tired of being asked to pick the lesser of two evils. Get a candidate in the mix that is worthy of it and not just because he/she has a truck load of money and I might consider it.

As for jury duty, Just throw the envelope away. Its not registered. I have never even opened one, I just toss out and always have. To me its like all junk mailers. There is nothing "official" about it. They would have to prove I got it, read it and ignored it. Lots of assumptions.

Edited October 5, 2015 by JAFO

[skatewash]

One of the top reasons I established residence in Florida before leaving the US to move to Thailand was that it was more politically competitive and electorally significant than my previous state. Mandatory voting, in my opinion, would just be another nail in the coffin of our freedoms. I think if a person makes the decision not to vote he or she is absolutely making the right decision and I commend him or her for doing that.

[mogandave]

Voting does not make you liable for back taxes any more than having a driver license.

You're either liable or you're not.

Each state has it's own criteria for determining if you're a state resident or not, for tax purposes. Some are more aggressive than others. But I agree having a driving license is much stronger evidence that you are than voting.

It has been my experience that (generally) you pay taxes where you earn them. Where you reside has little to do with it.

I currently live and work (mostly) in Thailand but I am on the payroll of a California company.

I have California:

Address

Bank accounts

Driver license

Heath Insurance

Fishing license

Magazine subscriptions

Credit cards

I visit California for work and vacation 3-4 times a year, and I only have to pay taxes to California on the money I earn in California.

The idea that voting is going to make you liable for back taxes is ridiculous.

I guess if you yourself have never encountered an idea it must be ridiculous on the face of it, right?

Nevertheless, voting is usally a factor in determining where your tax domicile is. Here's just one example from the state of Utah:

Unless you can prove otherwise, you are considered to be a Utah resident in the following situations:

1. You claim your Utah home as your primary residence and receive a lower Utah property tax rate,
2. You are registered to vote in Utah,
3. You file an individual income tax return as a Utah resident.

http://incometax.utah.gov/filing/residency

That doesn't mean that if you register to vote in Utah you will immediately be sent a tax bill. That depends on how aggressive their enforcement is. The states all have different regulations and different standards of enforcement no matter how difficult you might find it to grasp that concept that clashes with your own common-sense notion of residence. Do I need to point out that you tax liability will not be determined by your own common-sense notions?

California, by the way, includes among the many factors it considers to determine whether you have tax domicile there such items as whether you hire CA professionals (lawyer, accountant) and, indeed, whether you have friends in California. CA is also among the most aggressive in enforcement.

It's quite possible that casting an absentee ballot in the last state you lived would not result in a tax bill at all. But, in my opinion, that possibility, however small, is not worth it to me.

I stated: "The idea that voting is going to make you liable for back taxes is ridiculous."

And (not surprisingly) you cut and paste something that says nothing about tax liability.

What you have posted does not seem to address what I said in any way.

How would what you have posted make you liable for back taxes?

Again, I understand how complex this must sound, but you are either liable for taxes or you are not. Whether or not you vote (or register to vote) has nothing to do with it.

Incidentally, I am not a tax expert, but I have lived and or worked in California, Missouri, Texas, Kansas, New York, North Carolina, South Carolina, Delaware, Florida, West Virginia, Washington D. C., Maryland, Kansas, Montana, Georgia, and Nevada.

[CaptHaddock]

When the state of Utah says in its official document that it considers you to be resident in Utah if you are registered to vote there, they mean that you are thereby maintaining tax domicile in Utah, a concept that is apparently new to you. Tax domicile means that you are liable for taxes in the state whether or not you actually live there.

No one would mistake you for a tax expert. Since we do agree that you are not a tax expert, let's consult some tax experts.

When a state tax collection department wonders why you haven't been paying state income tax lately, they initiate the discussion with you by sending you a bill for taxes due plus interest and penalties. They then conduct a tax domicile audit on you. Here are the factors that the California Board of Equalization and the Franchise Board use in determining tax domicile for California:

In the Appeal of Stephen D. Bragg 2003-SBE-002, May 28, 2003, the Board of Equalization included the following list of factors which, while not exhaustive, inform taxpayers of the type and nature of connections the Board of Equalization and the Franchise Tax Board find informative when determining residency:

• The location of all of the taxpayer’s residential real property, and the approximate sizes and values of each of the residences.

• The state wherein the taxpayer’s spouse and children reside.

• The state wherein the taxpayer’s children attend school.

• The state wherein the taxpayer claims the homeowner’s property tax exemption on a residence.

• The taxpayer’s telephone records (i.e., the origination point of taxpayer’s telephone calls).

• The number of days the taxpayer spends in California versus the number of days the

• taxpayer spends in other states, and the general purpose of such days (i.e., vacation, business, etc.).

• The location where the taxpayer files his tax returns, both federal and state, and the state of residence claimed by the taxpayer on such returns.

• The location of the taxpayer’s bank and savings accounts.

• The origination point of the taxpayer’s checking account transactions and credit card transactions.

• The state wherein the taxpayer maintains memberships in social, religious, and professional organizations.

• The state wherein the taxpayer registers his automobiles.

• The state wherein the taxpayer maintains a driver’s license.

• The state wherein the taxpayer maintains voter registration and the taxpayer’s voting participation history.

• The state wherein the taxpayer obtains professional services, such as doctors, dentists, accountants, and attorneys.

• The state wherein the taxpayer is employed.

• The state wherein the taxpayer maintains or owns business interests.

• The state wherein the taxpayer holds a professional license or licenses.

• The state wherein the taxpayer owns investment real property.

• The indications in affidavits from various individuals discussing the taxpayer’s residency.

It is particularly relevant to determine whether the taxpayer substantially severed his or her California connections upon departure and took steps to establish significant connections with the new place of abode. It is also necessary to determine whether the connections in California were maintained in readiness for his or her return. See the Appeal of Richard L. and Kathleen K. Hardman, supra.

http://blog.myirstaxrelief.com/2010/06/ca-residency-rules-audit.html

Remember we are talking about a case where a person "lives" somewhere outside of CA. Like you. So, voting, despite your non-expert, common-sense conviction, however deeply held, that it has nothing to do with tax liability, is indeed a factor considered by the CA Board of Equalization. The Board of Equalization is an expert.

So, voting is one factor among many. Would this lead us to conclude that, if voting were the only factor that applied in your case, then it would be too weak to establish tax domicile by itself? Let's hear what another tax expert has to say, from a CPA firm:

Meeting Residency Requirements

Various factors are considered in determining whether a taxpayer has close ties with a particular state, including:

• Where you are physically established

• Where you have sources of income

• Where you register to vote

• Where you own a house

• Where you claim the homeowner's exemption

• Where your driver's license is issued

• Where your closest business contacts are, i.e., attorneys, accountants, banks, etc.

• Where your closest social contacts are, including religious, community and social affiliations (clubs)

• Where your vehicles are registered

• Where your minor children attend school, and whether you paid resident or non-resident tuition

• Which state has jurisdiction in the administration of your wills and trusts

• Where you obtained a homestead exemption

• Where you maintain a safety deposit box

• Where you filed an affidavit of domicile

• Where you own a cemetery plot

While no factor by itself can positively determine residency, registering to vote or claiming the homeowner's exemption in California, for example, have been found to make the taxpayer a California resident, regardless of the other factors.

http://ashleyquinncpas.com/services/residency.php

Since, as I mentioned, the effectiveness of enforcement varies from state to state and from taxpayer to taxpayer. So, even if you do cast an absentee ballot in CA that doesn't mean that you will get a bill for back taxes in the next mail. Nor does the fact that you don't get such a bill now mean that you won't get one in the future. Speeding is against the law, but many speeders get away with, perhaps most of them. Nevertheless, if you want to avoid a speeding ticket the most reliable way to do so is not to speed.

[brewsterbudgen]

I think we should all be allowed to vote as the US's policies affect all of us. I'd vote for Hillary or Bernie.

[IMA_FARANG]

Short answer .....no

Longer answer ......... I may be a U.S. citizen but I have never voted in a U.S. election and I don't intend to waste my time starting now.

Edited October 7, 2015 by IMA_FARANG

[NancyL]

When I consider that people have fought and died for my right to vote, how can I not vote? And as a woman, I feel I have a special duty to vote, since it was a right long denied to us. My mother never missed an election because she grew up hearing her grandmother's stories of fighting for the women's right to vote.

When my expat friends start to get cranked about U.S. politics, I like to ask them when was the last time they voted? And when my British friends go on about U.S. politics, I ask them when was the last time they voted in their own elections. Think about it.

I fail to see how someone has a right to complain if they can't even can't take the time to educate themselves about how to vote.

Edited October 8, 2015 by NancyL

[55Jay]

When I consider that people have fought and died for my right to vote, how can I not vote? And as a woman, I feel I have a special duty to vote, since it was a right long denied to us. My mother never missed an election because she grew up hearing her grandmother's stories of fighting for the women's right to vote.

When my expat friends start to get cranked about U.S. politics, I like to ask them when was the last time they voted? And when my British friends go on about U.S. politics, I ask them when was the last time they voted in their own elections. Think about it.

I fail to see how someone has a right to complain if they can't even can't take the time to educate themselves about how to vote.

Yes, and paying your taxes is a patriotic duty. LOL.

You wax nostalgic but fail to mention the only thing that actually matters.

The number 270.

[spidermike007]

No. It will not make any difference. Both parties are sold out and useless. Plus there is virtually no talent, on either ticket.

[jjJJ1133]

One of the top reasons I established residence in Florida before leaving the US to move to Thailand was that it was more politically competitive and electorally significant than my previous state. Mandatory voting, in my opinion, would just be another nail in the coffin of our freedoms. I think if a person makes the decision not to vote he or she is absolutely making the right decision and I commend him or her for doing that.

I think establishing residence in Florida or any other state that has NO state income tax would be a smart move if one were to retire in Thailand. Of course that is if your previous state has a state income tax.