Rising anger in Thailand's boom-to-bust Isaan

[huawei]

We shouldn't underestimate the intelligence of the Thai people to make their decision at the ballot box. Twice the voters made their voices heard and voted out the Dem government under Chuan due to massive corruption of the Sor Phor Kor scandal and policies that prospered their crony companies and friends. Thaksin can be voted out if we allow democracy to mature and the people realized the power they hold.

Doesn't matter how intelligent the Thais are, the problem is the choice they have. They deserve better than the self serving elite of whatever colour.

Chuan personally was not corrupt.

[Thai at Heart]

It'll all come to a head one day and I am convinced Yingluck will be treated far more kindly by history than the current installed PM. The rice scheme was poorly managed but well intended and now the subsidies have stopped and the farmers, once AGAIN, will suffer and does the Junta care? we know the answer to THAT.

OK, first of all, whatever happens to Thaksin/Yingluck is entirely of their own making. Those that are still blinded by the red propaganda will continue to believe they are a self-sacrificing family who put the interests of the "poor" over their own, when in reality nothing they do is for any reason other than to enrich themselves and their cronies.

Secondly, the rice scheme was a scam from day one, it was NOT well intended, as only the middle/top level rice farmers were eligible, the poorest who actually needed the help couldn't participate. The people who made shitloads of money from this were the people that owned the fields (they put up the rent, A LOT), the rice millers (owned by, you can guess), and the transportation and storage companies (again, you can guess who they are owned by).

The Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI), a private non-profit foundation that researches public policy, analyzed the rice pledging scheme in 2012 and identified several disadvantages. (Advantages and Disadvantages of Rice Pledging Scheme[in Thai] TDRI (Sept. 2012).) For example, it found that the farmers who would receive the most benefit from the scheme would be high to moderate-income farmers (around 1.185 million households), because they are capable of cultivating considerable amounts of rice for the purpose of selling their product to the government. (Id.) In contrast, low-income farmers possess only the ability to cultivate rice for consumption by their own households. Thus, they would not have enough rice to enter into the rice pledging scheme. (Id.) Furthermore, THAI PBS found that only 8% of farmers would benefit from this scheme. (1 Year: Problems of Rice Pledging Scheme of Yingluck Administration, supra.)

That link doesn't work. Can you republish it. Might make good reading.

Sorry, I can't track that down either.

Try these:

http://www.upecon.org.ph/publicpolicy/presentations/session5/Suthad%20Setboonsarng%20-%20Political%20Economy%20of%20Agricultural%20Policy%20in%20Thailand.pdf

(disavantages sections show it all beautifully)

http://tdri.or.th/en/tdri-insight/pledging-scheme-aids-rich/

(clear and simple enough that even a donkey can understand it, not sure about some of the TV members tho)

This assumption that low value farmers couldn't directly enter the scheme to me. The volumes taken into the system suggest virtually the whole crop entered.

With just about any other crop in Thailand, farmers combine crops and sell under each others name themselves or a middleman buys for a percentage less to transport to the mill.

Of course, some will have had little to sell, but the implication that they didn't get any improved price by combining or selling to middle men isn't 100% sure to me.

I note in one article it is mentioned that thailand has had illegal imports for decades. The trt system didn't create this problem.

[Thaidream]

There are some really good arguments on this post both for and against. My take on this is that Isaan has always been the rice basket for Thailand and supplied the labor that keeps the factories going. When Thaksin was starting to emerge as a politician, he hired the best minds in the West, to plan his campaigns and to make sure he could build a dynasty in Thailand. He patterned his political life after Western politicians with a Thai twist. His main adviser is Robert Amsterdam of the US. American politicians stay in power a long time by stuffing the budget with 'pork' -projects that benefit their community and bring jobs and money. Part of the Shin pork was the handouts to local villages; the car buying scheme and of course the rice scheme. No one in their right mind would provide a handout like he did and try and corner the market on rice like he tried to do it.It was completely unsustainable- just as in the United States where their economy is completely unsustainable. The difference being the United States is much wealthier and the decline will take longer. His only reason was money politics. Keep giving the people handouts and they will love you and keep you in power forever. It was working until he started to rub other people who have a lot of money and more than him the wrong way. Then his World collapsed along with all the programs he created. The one thing he did that actually made sense was providing universal healthcare- however, it was never funded correctly.

Along comes Sondhi who shuts down the airport and causes massive problems for tourists and the countries reputation; the Red Shirts who claim they represent the poor and support Thaksin and then Suthep who caused massive disruptions in Bangkok. Constant upheaval- from all groups claiming they had the answer but no real plan put forth. The only way to end the chaos was what happened. The military took power. Also, remember that during the same time frame Egypt had a Coup but it appears the West is fine with that because the duly elected government was backing the Moslem Brotherhood. I do not like Coups in the same manner that most Thais do not like them. I don't believe the General wanted to be Prime Minister but his hand was forced.

I continue to believe that the current government has a better chance to make things happen than the Shin governments; the Sondhi clique or the Suthep faction. Changing Thailand will take time and actually the General has been in power for a little over a year. I say give him a chance or shall we go back to the confrontational type of politics or the money politics or what? One of the additional problems on the horizon is that there are very few Thai people on the national stage that are actually electable- but that is another discussion.

[slapout]

Thailand appears to be very much like Somolia and a few other countries of the world. The bulk of the population is stealing from those who are making a contribution to society., tourists, etc, or any oppurtine target that gets close enough to get the hooks into

The most pathatic part is the ''bulk who are the theives'' referenced, includes the majority of the civil servents and those (BIB) who are susposed to be tasked with protecting the good, honest, hard working people whose tax money pays their salaries..

I do not understand theThia mindset, thinking, logic, etc well enough to make a prediction on what will happen when, its severity, how it will be handled nor the result But I can, from my little knowledge of history think of similar circumstances which resulted in war with massive casualties being inflicted by / on everyone involved

[connda]

It's a basic rule of thumb that you need a 50k+ monthly salary in order to buy a new car on credit and run it.

My ex just bought a new Toyota Yaris on credit, paying 6,000 baht a month, with free comprehensive insurance for the first year

Of course, she's on the hook for 1st class comprehensive insurance mandated in her purchase contract, insurance that will probably cost her 8k to 10k. Then you she has to come up with the extra money.

[mikemac]

The Isaan farmers should stop growing rice except for enough to feed their family. The rest of the year they can go work in a factory or drive taxi in bangkok, to service the debts.

They wouldnot sell one grain of rice. Bangkok citizens could import their rice. The export of rice would be finished. 5% of the economy gone. Stop being used and fight back where it hurts. As long as they produce it the rich will try to get as cheap as they can. Stop production and do not start again till they get some of their demands met.

I hope you had tongue in cheek when you wrote that ^

Do you really think their (the rich) world would fall apart if they could not get their hands on cheap rice ? (yes, that's how they got rich, by buying el cheapo Isaan rice )

And if all those rice farmers went to Bangkok to drive taxis and work in factories whose jobs are they going to take ?

But your plan does have a good side. All those farmers who used to grow lots of rice and suddenly only grew enough to feed their families would not qualify for any future rice scams, and that's got to be a good thing !

[connda]

The Isaan farmers should stop growing rice except for enough to feed their family. The rest of the year they can go work in a factory or drive taxi in bangkok, to service the debts.

They wouldnot sell one grain of rice. Bangkok citizens could import their rice. The export of rice would be finished. 5% of the economy gone. Stop being used and fight back where it hurts. As long as they produce it the rich will try to get as cheap as they can. Stop production and donot start again till they get some of their demands met.

I can see the day a-comin' when Monsanto is invited in to 'help'.

[Yann55]

One has to wonder who these Reuters 'journalists' are and how come they make such a blatant confusion between opinion and information.

Interestingly, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed this, AFP correspondents in Thailand repeatedly make the same confusion and paint a picture of this country which is, to say the least, highly one-sided.

When one looks at how information flows throughout the world nowadays, one quickly realizes that the principle of multiple sources/opinions is highly jeopardized, while the public is still under the illusion that the media offer a very wide scope.

Once upon a time all the big newspapers of all major countries had swarms of reporters running around the world, who sent whatever information they could collect and sometimes complemented them with their opinion, always drawing a clear line between the two.

Nowadays, the system is completely different. The media are still in high numbers but their sources are not. A very restricted number of 'Press Agencies', three of them to be exact, have taken over the data-collecting aspect of journalism. A small number of local correspondents for Associated Press (USA), Reuters (UK) and AFP (France) send their articles to journalists around the world, who then either re-write something based on the original paper, or simply deliver it as it is. Independent news reporters still exist but they are just a handful and they cover huge territories, which impairs the depth of their research.

I wonder what proportion of the general public is actually aware of this, and how radically this change of process has affected the credibility of information.

Need I add that the system also opens wide the door to all kinds of possible abuse ... ? You can't bribe thousands of media, but if they all feed at the same source, then manipulation becomes highly possible, and how could dishonest politicians not be tempted ? We can only thank God that dishonest politicans don't exist, of course, but imagine if they did ?

Edited October 1, 2015 by Yann55

[skildpadden]

The Isaan farmers should stop growing rice except for enough to feed their family. The rest of the year they can go work in a factory or drive taxi in bangkok, to service the debts.

They wouldnot sell one grain of rice. Bangkok citizens could import their rice. The export of rice would be finished. 5% of the economy gone. Stop being used and fight back where it hurts. As long as they produce it the rich will try to get as cheap as they can. Stop production and donot start again till they get some of their demands met.

Let them do that or get some cooperatives working (seems Thais don't like those don't trust their own). Let them try to improve their own lot in a good way. Not by handouts but like you said stop producing. The price of rice will go up again and then they can start over. But they have hurt the rich rice millers then.

Normal people wont hurt as there is an oversupply of rice anyway that can be imported from countries like Vietnam that are far more productive per rai of land.

I have stayed in Issan and was thinking exactly the same.

The farmers should start co-operatives together like investing in a tractor among small farm holders. They should clean and pack products for retail; i.e. add value to the products.

They also need to diversify into other crops and farm more for self sufficiency like the king suggested 30:30:30:10 and therefore not be reliant on a crop of rice or sugar cane for finances for the rest of the year.

My thoughts exactly. After listening to their hardships year in and year out, I tried for years in my ex's village to stimulate the idea of doing something else.

E.g. going together and investing in some of the more heavy machinery to sabve costs for everybody. I argued that the co-op idea had been around in Europe since 1850's, so I would say it is a proven model. They were not interested in hearing such nonsense.

I then asked why didn't they try to grow something else on some of the fields in order to have crops to sell all year around, flowers, carrots, onions whatever. No, they always farmed rice.

Alright, I then asked if they could consider going organic, since they always complained of the high costs of pesticides. No, that was a stupid idea.

As another poster I also said yes to help them raising ducks (fairly small investment). I asked them to sell the eggs only and avoid selling the ducks to get some cash flowing in and make the operation sustainable. Less than a year later they had sold all the ducks and we were back at the beginning.

[kannot]

The Isaan farmers should stop growing rice except for enough to feed their family. The rest of the year they can go work in a factory or drive taxi in bangkok, to service the debts.

They wouldnot sell one grain of rice. Bangkok citizens could import their rice. The export of rice would be finished. 5% of the economy gone. Stop being used and fight back where it hurts. As long as they produce it the rich will try to get as cheap as they can. Stop production and donot start again till they get some of their demands met.

Let them do that or get some cooperatives working (seems Thais don't like those don't trust their own). Let them try to improve their own lot in a good way. Not by handouts but like you said stop producing. The price of rice will go up again and then they can start over. But they have hurt the rich rice millers then.

Normal people wont hurt as there is an oversupply of rice anyway that can be imported from countries like Vietnam that are far more productive per rai of land.

I have stayed in Issan and was thinking exactly the same.

The farmers should start co-operatives together like investing in a tractor among small farm holders. They should clean and pack products for retail; i.e. add value to the products.

They also need to diversify into other crops and farm more for self sufficiency like the king suggested 30:30:30:10 and therefore not be reliant on a crop of rice or sugar cane for finances for the rest of the year.

My thoughts exactly. After listening to their hardships year in and year out, I tried for years in my ex's village to stimulate the idea of doing something else.

E.g. going together and investing in some of the more heavy machinery to sabve costs for everybody. I argued that the co-op idea had been around in Europe since 1850's, so I would say it is a proven model. They were not interested in hearing such nonsense.

I then asked why didn't they try to grow something else on some of the fields in order to have crops to sell all year around, flowers, carrots, onions whatever. No, they always farmed rice.

Alright, I then asked if they could consider going organic, since they always complained of the high costs of pesticides. No, that was a stupid idea.

As another poster I also said yes to help them raising ducks (fairly small investment). I asked them to sell the eggs only and avoid selling the ducks to get some cash flowing in and make the operation sustainable. Less than a year later they had sold all the ducks and we were back at the beginning.

Your'e banging your head against a wall, I gave up any help a long time ago, leave em to get on with it.

[MaeJoMTB]

I bought my Ford Ranger 4 door 4x4 pick up truck back in 2001. 50% down and the rest over 4 years.

In running costs it is about 6,000 THB per month which includes tax, insurance, tyres etc and it now has 326,xxx on the clock and is needing a bit more in the way of repairs. It has cost about 45,000 this year but very little in the years before. I could probably afford to replace it with a new one but it doesn't get used as much now and it is probably cheaper to keep fixing it than paying say 15,000 baht a month or 180,000 a year.

We live in rural Thailand so the pickup is the most convenient vehicle to have.

Off topic

I bought my Nissan BigM pickup 4 years ago for 150k cash.

Running costs are about 500bht/month + diesel

This year I have already spent 3k in repairs, and 2k5 for tax,insurance and road test.

You have running costs of 6k a month?????????

On Topic

In CM, business are failing at record rates, enforced 'special rules' are driving the entertainment sector out of business.

Food courts and small business are hurting. My neighbors just had a car repossessed, Banks are already taking houses in our moobaan.

I don't hear any good words for the Junta from Thais, just the elderly foreigners.

And I gotta agree with the elderly foreigners, the worse it gets for the general Thai population, the more spending power we have.

Hurrah for Prayut! drive the country into the ground ............. we love you!

Edited October 1, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[aussieinthailand]

I hope when they really start to protest, that they direct their anger towards the person mostly responsible, the one who screwed them over on the rice scheme and ruined Thailand for years to come, the one who encouraged them all to get into debt and buy new cars, trucks, houses and smartphones, the one who claimed to be doing everything for their benefit. But they won't, cos he's their hero and can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault.

They might want to start looking at growing alternative crops and different ways of farming rather than repeating the same old tired cycle over and over again hoping for a better result. That's insanity. One of my friends up North has done this, and they're laughing. Diversification, works wonders.

If they all bought new cars, n houses, and smart phones, then they have themselves to blame not 'their hero" for money problems.

As for the poor farmers that I see and have known over the last several years, well not to many are getting around in their "new car's, and most still live in the family home that is in much need of repair.

The problem is rice is at an 8 year low, and cost of living is going up, simple math, less money and more expense, Not only that but the lack of and sometimes NO mains water supply in some areas for weeks on end brings further challenges to the working poor.

Now as for them new cars n houses augment, I'll help you out a little to understand a bit more, You see these things were mainly purchased by government workers, not poor farmers. BTW, not real sure how familiar you are with farming in Isaan but they don't just grow rice, like wood for paper, sugar, fish farming, prawns, Thai potatoes, fruit & vegie growers, chicken and egg farms, corn, so there is diversification in Isaan,

1. The car, house, smartphone argument = if you truly believe it's only Govt workers that got themselves in hock cos of the previous Govt's "incentives" to buy, then you're mistaken

2. Rice is at an 8 year low = yes, it is, and why do you think that happened? Magic? Or the stupid attempt to manipulate the world markets that they told everyone about before they did it?

3. Diversification = well, yes, "some" do diversify, but not enough ... it needs to be each farmer growing multiple different crops, not each farmer growing solely one different crop for example

Sorry my friend but I didn't say "only Govt workers that got themselves into hock", some farmers did buy things they could not afford, regardless of incentives, ie if you can't afford it then don't buy it then blame others for your money problems, most of the farmers are in debit due to farming costs and low prices for their product, not "cars, houses, smart phones.

Challenge, go and ask 10 govt workers do they borrow money for cars, houses, smartphones, and I'll guess all will say yes, now go and ask 10 farmers the same question, now how many will give you the answer that you claim in your post???

My wife's family have not sold rice for the last 2 years due to poor yield, not enough rain, but they do grow three different crops not just rice, and next year will most probably be far worse, again low rainfall.

As for blaming one three year term government of one country for a global world price slump, REALLY? considering the many rice producing country's out there, sure it may have a small impact on price but do you really buy into the Yingluk Govt is entirely responsible for it?

[HenryB]

It's a basic rule of thumb that you need a 50k+ monthly salary in order to buy a new car on credit and run it. Many financial problems in low income Isaan are self inflicted. One hardly sees any red plates in the area now though.

My maid got a new truck with a very small downpayment. And we pay her WAY less than 50k/month! LOL

She must must steal a lot wake up.

[HenryB]

Issan thought the gravy train was going to run forever,and we all know nothing last forever,that's part of Buddhist teachings,so while the money was rolling in from inflated prices for Rice,and the demand for Rubber from China,all was good,no one thought about saving for a rainy day,instead of savings they have debt,

regards Worgeordie

The whole world has too much rice wheat and potatoes the farmers over the war are growing too much

Plus people should be eating less of that junk and will be in time to come.

[Tatsujin]

I hope when they really start to protest, that they direct their anger towards the person mostly responsible, the one who screwed them over on the rice scheme and ruined Thailand for years to come, the one who encouraged them all to get into debt and buy new cars, trucks, houses and smartphones, the one who claimed to be doing everything for their benefit. But they won't, cos he's their hero and can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault.

They might want to start looking at growing alternative crops and different ways of farming rather than repeating the same old tired cycle over and over again hoping for a better result. That's insanity. One of my friends up North has done this, and they're laughing. Diversification, works wonders.

If they all bought new cars, n houses, and smart phones, then they have themselves to blame not 'their hero" for money problems.

As for the poor farmers that I see and have known over the last several years, well not to many are getting around in their "new car's, and most still live in the family home that is in much need of repair.

The problem is rice is at an 8 year low, and cost of living is going up, simple math, less money and more expense, Not only that but the lack of and sometimes NO mains water supply in some areas for weeks on end brings further challenges to the working poor.

Now as for them new cars n houses augment, I'll help you out a little to understand a bit more, You see these things were mainly purchased by government workers, not poor farmers. BTW, not real sure how familiar you are with farming in Isaan but they don't just grow rice, like wood for paper, sugar, fish farming, prawns, Thai potatoes, fruit & vegie growers, chicken and egg farms, corn, so there is diversification in Isaan,

1. The car, house, smartphone argument = if you truly believe it's only Govt workers that got themselves in hock cos of the previous Govt's "incentives" to buy, then you're mistaken

2. Rice is at an 8 year low = yes, it is, and why do you think that happened? Magic? Or the stupid attempt to manipulate the world markets that they told everyone about before they did it?

3. Diversification = well, yes, "some" do diversify, but not enough ... it needs to be each farmer growing multiple different crops, not each farmer growing solely one different crop for example

Sorry my friend but I didn't say "only Govt workers that got themselves into hock", some farmers did buy things they could not afford, regardless of incentives, ie if you can't afford it then don't buy it then blame others for your money problems, most of the farmers are in debit due to farming costs and low prices for their product, not "cars, houses, smart phones.

Challenge, go and ask 10 govt workers do they borrow money for cars, houses, smartphones, and I'll guess all will say yes, now go and ask 10 farmers the same question, now how many will give you the answer that you claim in your post???

My wife's family have not sold rice for the last 2 years due to poor yield, not enough rain, but they do grow three different crops not just rice, and next year will most probably be far worse, again low rainfall.

As for blaming one three year term government of one country for a global world price slump, REALLY? considering the many rice producing country's out there, sure it may have a small impact on price but do you really buy into the Yingluk Govt is entirely responsible for it?

My mistake, I should have said "mainly Govt workers", but the principle is the same whoever it applies to ... if you can't afford the payments, don't do it. Simple. The point however is that from what I've seen, those Govt workers have a regular monthly salary and can therefore budget better for their payments. The farmers (some, not all) don't seem to be doing this, it's all on the never, never cos they want something shiny and new despite not having the money to pay back the credit/loan.

And yes, I can 100% blame the Shinawatra Govt for the complete and utter mess they have made of rice sales and the reputation for quality Thailand once had.

If you'd care to research it a little more, you'd see that economic experts/advisers ALL said it was doomed to fail before it started, continued to say it was not going to work whilst it was going on, and now are sitting there saying "told you so".

The morons in power at the time thought it would be a great idea to corner the market, but they told the world about it BEFORE doing it, and then India/Vietnam jumped in and the rice costs plummeted. All of this could and should have been foreseen by anyone with half a brain, and it should have never happened.

But that's not the point. The people the Shinawatra Govt wanted to get rich, did so (themselves included) ... the rest of the people they didn't give a crap about, and continue not to give a crap about.

[Thai at Heart]

I hope when they really start to protest, that they direct their anger towards the person mostly responsible, the one who screwed them over on the rice scheme and ruined Thailand for years to come, the one who encouraged them all to get into debt and buy new cars, trucks, houses and smartphones, the one who claimed to be doing everything for their benefit. But they won't, cos he's their hero and can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault.

They might want to start looking at growing alternative crops and different ways of farming rather than repeating the same old tired cycle over and over again hoping for a better result. That's insanity. One of my friends up North has done this, and they're laughing. Diversification, works wonders.

If they all bought new cars, n houses, and smart phones, then they have themselves to blame not 'their hero" for money problems.

As for the poor farmers that I see and have known over the last several years, well not to many are getting around in their "new car's, and most still live in the family home that is in much need of repair.

The problem is rice is at an 8 year low, and cost of living is going up, simple math, less money and more expense, Not only that but the lack of and sometimes NO mains water supply in some areas for weeks on end brings further challenges to the working poor.

Now as for them new cars n houses augment, I'll help you out a little to understand a bit more, You see these things were mainly purchased by government workers, not poor farmers. BTW, not real sure how familiar you are with farming in Isaan but they don't just grow rice, like wood for paper, sugar, fish farming, prawns, Thai potatoes, fruit & vegie growers, chicken and egg farms, corn, so there is diversification in Isaan,

1. The car, house, smartphone argument = if you truly believe it's only Govt workers that got themselves in hock cos of the previous Govt's "incentives" to buy, then you're mistaken

2. Rice is at an 8 year low = yes, it is, and why do you think that happened? Magic? Or the stupid attempt to manipulate the world markets that they told everyone about before they did it?

3. Diversification = well, yes, "some" do diversify, but not enough ... it needs to be each farmer growing multiple different crops, not each farmer growing solely one different crop for example

Sorry my friend but I didn't say "only Govt workers that got themselves into hock", some farmers did buy things they could not afford, regardless of incentives, ie if you can't afford it then don't buy it then blame others for your money problems, most of the farmers are in debit due to farming costs and low prices for their product, not "cars, houses, smart phones.

Challenge, go and ask 10 govt workers do they borrow money for cars, houses, smartphones, and I'll guess all will say yes, now go and ask 10 farmers the same question, now how many will give you the answer that you claim in your post???

My wife's family have not sold rice for the last 2 years due to poor yield, not enough rain, but they do grow three different crops not just rice, and next year will most probably be far worse, again low rainfall.

As for blaming one three year term government of one country for a global world price slump, REALLY? considering the many rice producing country's out there, sure it may have a small impact on price but do you really buy into the Yingluk Govt is entirely responsible for it?

My mistake, I should have said "mainly Govt workers", but the principle is the same whoever it applies to ... if you can't afford the payments, don't do it. Simple. The point however is that from what I've seen, those Govt workers have a regular monthly salary and can therefore budget better for their payments. The farmers (some, not all) don't seem to be doing this, it's all on the never, never cos they want something shiny and new despite not having the money to pay back the credit/loan.

And yes, I can 100% blame the Shinawatra Govt for the complete and utter mess they have made of rice sales and the reputation for quality Thailand once had.

If you'd care to research it a little more, you'd see that economic experts/advisers ALL said it was doomed to fail before it started, continued to say it was not going to work whilst it was going on, and now are sitting there saying "told you so".

The morons in power at the time thought it would be a great idea to corner the market, but they told the world about it BEFORE doing it, and then India/Vietnam jumped in and the rice costs plummeted. All of this could and should have been foreseen by anyone with half a brain, and it should have never happened.

But that's not the point. The people the Shinawatra Govt wanted to get rich, did so (themselves included) ... the rest of the people they didn't give a crap about, and continue not to give a crap about.

Sales of Thai rice have been at records.

[louse1953]

It's a basic rule of thumb that you need a 50k+ monthly salary in order to buy a new car on credit and run it. Many financial problems in low income Isaan are self inflicted. One hardly sees any red plates in the area now though.

My maid got a new truck with a very small downpayment. And we pay her WAY less than 50k/month! LOL

You don't need 50k a month, however there are plenty of Issan people who are simply too dumb to even understand they have to pay back loans.

My ex-wife's mother borrowed Baht 240,000 more than 20 years ago, they paid only the interest of 5,750 per month for 20 years before the loan shark finally came knocking on the door and demanded the principal be paid. They lost their house to pay the principal despite having paid over 1.5million in interest payments. They also borrowed a further 60,000 at 10% per month as the the house didn't cover all of the outstanding debt. Plenty of people bought cars etc they simply could not afford to pay for.

Dumber than a box of hammers. Sadly this is not an isolated case. It's hard to have sympathy when people are this stupid.

That's exactly why i got all the family land in my missus name,i got the usufruct,and i have the chanote.They agreed to this as they said they can't trust themselves and they know i will never resort to borrowing.You just gotta play hardball sometimes.

[louse1953]

This is the same worldwide.Governments in league with the big end of town,touching up the middle class and the working poor taxpayer.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION.

[simon43]

Of course, she's on the hook for 1st class comprehensive insurance mandated in her purchase contract

Huh? There is nothing mandated in her purchase contract. After the year of fully comprehensive insurance expires, she can go for the lowest class of insurance, or nothing at all, (although it would be wise to have a PorRorBor to avoid police fines...)

[farangmick]

Read the full article. The farmers are having it tough, A lot of it is their own fault. "They are having to sell their cars" means that in a good year, the faithful old Mighty X, only used for the weekly trip to the market, was replaced by a shiny D-Max with only a small deposit and 10,000 baht a month repayments. The envy of their neighbours, until they have to hand it back. In a village 10km from me, three brothers live in adjacent houses and have adjacent farms. Decided to buy a new tractor, but argued over who was to drive it. So they bought one each on credit they could never afford. I live in a relatively prosperous province, but from what I hear from friends in Isaan, "there be trouble at' (rice) mill soon, tha marks my words."

[chrisrazz]

The sh1t will really hit the fan once the burgeoning middle class realize they've been duped by the elite into thinking they were like them. The BKK middle class traders and business people have been conned massively through a concerted campaign to discredit the rural sector, they will suffer more than the poor (who have little to lose), business activity is declining, meanwhile it is this demographic that will have to pay for the mess through increased taxes etc.

[thaibeachlovers]

"People are complaining about the rising costs of living, of having no money for spending," said Teerasak Teecayuphan, the mayor of the neighbouring provincial capital of Khon Kaen. "Their patience will gradually run out. Sooner or later this pot will boil over."

It is difficult to believe that people in positions of power have learned nothing from the events of the last decade. You can't leave people with no way out, they won't stand for it. With the removal of the Shin dynasty, one would have thought that there was an opportunity to win hearts and minds with thoughtful policies. This will not end well.

People are complaining about the rising costs of living, of having no money for spending

Certainly doesn't apply in Chiang Mai area. Roads chock a block with expensive cars, C M itself is a permanent traffic jam, restaurants full, malls booming with shoppers. Lots of building going on.

No recession that I can see.

[thaibeachlovers]

Read the full article. The farmers are having it tough, A lot of it is their own fault. "They are having to sell their cars" means that in a good year, the faithful old Mighty X, only used for the weekly trip to the market, was replaced by a shiny D-Max with only a small deposit and 10,000 baht a month repayments. The envy of their neighbours, until they have to hand it back. In a village 10km from me, three brothers live in adjacent houses and have adjacent farms. Decided to buy a new tractor, but argued over who was to drive it. So they bought one each on credit they could never afford. I live in a relatively prosperous province, but from what I hear from friends in Isaan, "there be trouble at' (rice) mill soon, tha marks my words."

A lot of it is their own fault

Should be "most of it is their own fault".

I have little sympathy, given that they strive to kill the golden goose at every opportunity. The beaches are ruined in their pursuit of money over the environment, and even things like immigration policy for expats is making it harder to stay.

Perhaps if it really does turn to poo it will become easier for those of us that didn't sell a house back home at a huge profit to remain in LOS. While not good for the Thais, it may be a silver lining for us poorer expats.

[canuckamuck]

Regardless of what reasons people may point out, Thailand is a hot mess waiting to happen.

The farmers have every right to feel manipulated lately and they are heading into a hard year. At a time where organizing to complain is illegal, with an oversensitive government that is more and down the slippery slope of authoritarian rule.

Now watch what happens when Europe bans the fish, Americas doles out sanctions, farmers start having their land returned to the forestry department, and biggest of all, they start messing with Facebook and Line. And these are just some issues we can talk about.

2016 is looking to be a pivotal year.

[englishoak]

YUP

[thaibeachlovers]

Regardless of what reasons people may point out, Thailand is a hot mess waiting to happen.

The farmers have every right to feel manipulated lately and they are heading into a hard year. At a time where organizing to complain is illegal, with an oversensitive government that is more and down the slippery slope of authoritarian rule.

Now watch what happens when Europe bans the fish, Americas doles out sanctions, farmers start having their land returned to the forestry department, and biggest of all, they start messing with Facebook and Line. And these are just some issues we can talk about.

2016 is looking to be a pivotal year.

If my wife has to give up her smartphone addiction for whatever reason that will be a plus for me.

[thaibeachlovers]

I hope when they really start to protest, that they direct their anger towards the person mostly responsible, the one who screwed them over on the rice scheme and ruined Thailand for years to come, the one who encouraged them all to get into debt and buy new cars, trucks, houses and smartphones, the one who claimed to be doing everything for their benefit. But they won't, cos he's their hero and can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault.

They might want to start looking at growing alternative crops and different ways of farming rather than repeating the same old tired cycle over and over again hoping for a better result. That's insanity. One of my friends up North has done this, and they're laughing. Diversification, works wonders.

If they all bought new cars, n houses, and smart phones, then they have themselves to blame not 'their hero" for money problems.

As for the poor farmers that I see and have known over the last several years, well not to many are getting around in their "new car's, and most still live in the family home that is in much need of repair.

The problem is rice is at an 8 year low, and cost of living is going up, simple math, less money and more expense, Not only that but the lack of and sometimes NO mains water supply in some areas for weeks on end brings further challenges to the working poor.

Now as for them new cars n houses augment, I'll help you out a little to understand a bit more, You see these things were mainly purchased by government workers, not poor farmers. BTW, not real sure how familiar you are with farming in Isaan but they don't just grow rice, like wood for paper, sugar, fish farming, prawns, Thai potatoes, fruit & vegie growers, chicken and egg farms, corn, so there is diversification in Isaan,

sometimes NO mains water supply in some areas for weeks on end

Goodness me, there have been farmers in Issan for hundreds ( ?thousands ) of years and they all survived without mains water supply.

Perhaps they need to think about how things were when they were young.

My wife grew up without electricity, and definitely no mains water.

[Lunchbob]

It is easy to miss, but many farmers do not want to be farmers. To them, the farm is a misery, a place of suffering. You must enjoy working onnthe land and want to improve it in all of the ways easily available to learn before the changes are made. They are farmers because they have no other choices or at least no easy choices and then they are weighed down by immediate obligations. A trap. The land for them is a burden. Some want to get rid of it, but no one will buy! The farm neighboring mine is always asking us to buy it. Why? Their son wants a car or the loan sharks are getting nasty. We politely tell them no.

[Lunchbob]

I hope when they really start to protest, that they direct their anger towards the person mostly responsible, the one who screwed them over on the rice scheme and ruined Thailand for years to come, the one who encouraged them all to get into debt and buy new cars, trucks, houses and smartphones, the one who claimed to be doing everything for their benefit. But they won't, cos he's their hero and can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault.

They might want to start looking at growing alternative crops and different ways of farming rather than repeating the same old tired cycle over and over again hoping for a better result. That's insanity. One of my friends up North has done this, and they're laughing. Diversification, works wonders.

If they all bought new cars, n houses, and smart phones, then they have themselves to blame not 'their hero" for money problems.

As for the poor farmers that I see and have known over the last several years, well not to many are getting around in their "new car's, and most still live in the family home that is in much need of repair.

The problem is rice is at an 8 year low, and cost of living is going up, simple math, less money and more expense, Not only that but the lack of and sometimes NO mains water supply in some areas for weeks on end brings further challenges to the working poor.

Now as for them new cars n houses augment, I'll help you out a little to understand a bit more, You see these things were mainly purchased by government workers, not poor farmers. BTW, not real sure how familiar you are with farming in Isaan but they don't just grow rice, like wood for paper, sugar, fish farming, prawns, Thai potatoes, fruit & vegie growers, chicken and egg farms, corn, so there is diversification in Isaan,

sometimes NO mains water supply in some areas for weeks on end

Goodness me, there have been farmers in Issan for hundreds ( ?thousands ) of years and they all survived without mains water supply.

Perhaps they need to think about how things were when they were young.

My wife grew up without electricity, and definitely no mains water.

Remember too folks even when there is water you must pump it. Not easy. Have you tried? Hard work and expensive. The machines are very heavy. The oil expensive. Also, in a drought. You must keep watering more and more and more.

[tomwct]

They thought loans were gifts, probably what the PTP told them. Now they have to pay back they blame the current government. Instead of changing their ways they are constantly asking for handouts. This is how they are bought by the PTP, and the reason they are angry now. They are not being bribed to vote this time.

They should be helped to change crops, not paying over market price and doing the same stupid thing over and over again. Farming rice does not work but they keep doing it. They say Thailand has a low unemployment rate, let these guys work plenty of immigrants doing work so why can't these guys do the same jobs ?

Sounds almost the same as those living of welfare in my own country, always wanting more and help but not working while others do work.

Yes, when the Red Shirts came up with the new car subsidy and instructed the banks to make loans to all of the loving populous to keep everyone happy.

Then they came up with the next scheme of paying them double for their rice and now that scheme comes to a roaring end with almost a Trillion Baht Loss. Now

the car payments continue and the repossessions increase and the price of used cars plummets! Now the poor farmers and vendors are underwater with deficits on their car/truck loans and no more cars and trucks, but the debts continue with interest and penalties added daily! That's what happens when Thai's sell their

Votes to Idiots and they come up with more schemes to continue buying their Votes. Thai's do not need politicians nor elections, so now the country has Peace with

80% happy with the status quo! Leave the General in charge for another 10 years or more!