Gun control debate in the spotlight following Oregon campus shootings

[lostoday]

It's a good thing none of you gun control freaks are Americans.

You would be living in fear if you were there...or ever went there.

Why is a humanitarian who advocates for measure to lessen the deaths of innocent students a "freak"? That's just plain whacky.

Why do you think any of them would be living in fear? It's the gun nutters that live in fear. Just look at one prominent voice here talking in support of guns: He wants his gun to be able to penetrate body armour in case someone with body armour attacked him. . He also wants his guns to "play the long game" for when his imagined Islamists try to over-run the US. . He also wants his guns to be ready in case the gummint gets uppity. .

Who's living in fear???

Really, who? It's the gun owners who live in fear. That's why they have guns.

I don't think there will be moves for a great firewall of America or the banning on Orwell's 1984. Now you may say but what about the UK or Australia? It should be pointed out that those places are quite small and easy to manage in comparison to America.

Alaska does not have the same problems as NYC. America does not have national ID cards. Many things are different. If you live in many areas in the USA bears/coyotes/wolves steal your food and kill your dogs.

Obama has polarized America. I have far more in common with a farmer from Issan than I do a member of the rainbow coalition from California.

Gun owners aren't living in fear. I kept three legal guns at my business in America. I was in a war. I've used guns in combat and I would not hesitate to use them again if threatened. 21.9 million Americans combat trained veterans of the military all know how to use guns and are not afraid.

The evidence we have on this forum is that gun owners are the ones living in fear...as outlined in my post.

Need to be able to pierce body armour for when that angry Islamist neighbour attacks. Need to be ready for when the gummint 'n revenoo comes a callin'.

Neil Young; "Daddy's rifle in my hand felt reassuring. He told me "red means run, son, numbers add up to nothin'...."

I am posting on this forum. I own guns. I'm a combat veteran from Thailand and Vietnam. I'm not afraid. Now you know about one poster on this forum.

[Publicus]

This was a Facebook post that sure rings true.

"How about we treat every young man who wants to buy a gun like every woman who wants to get an abortion — mandatory 48-hr waiting period, parental permission, a note from his doctor proving he understands what he's about to do, a video he has to watch about the effects of gun violence, an ultrasound wand up the ass (just because). Let's close down all but one gun shop in every state and make him travel hundreds of miles, take time off work, and stay overnight in a strange town to get a gun. Make him walk through a gauntlet of people holding photos of loved ones who were shot to death, people who call him a murderer and beg him not to buy a gun.

It makes more sense to do this with young men and guns than with women and health care, right? I mean, no woman getting an abortion has killed a room full of people in seconds, right?"

Why not go back and set all this up?

I would suggest you start in Texas.

One could be confident some people vividly recall the first mass shooting massacre in USA to be televised live occurred at the University of Texas Tower in 1966.

Before two police accessed the stairs to the top of the Texas tower to shoot Whitman dead, Charles Whitman had opened rifle fire to kill 14 and wound 32. Most of it was televised live.

https://youtu.be/ShlbXlfQlkU

At least it was the first and the last USA mass shooting to be televised live. In Texas.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

The question here is : do you, pro guns who live in thailand, have a gun here? If yes do you own it legally? If no, do you feel your safety threatened ?

[Basil B]

I recall a thread only a few weeks back when it was stated there were on average more than 1 mass killing a day in America...

Thursday was day #273 of 2015

I hope Hillary has the Balls to take on the NRA something no male US President has.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Basil B

[lostboy]

Australia is quite small compared to the US? You really do dream this stuff up.

I suggest you use google to compare.

The population of Australia is 10 million less than one state, California (there are 49 other states). If you combine the GDPs of Australia, Burma, the Czech Republic, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Peru and Ukraine, you will have the same size economy as California. California accounted for nearly 3 percent of the worlds GDP in 2008. The Governor of many states in the USA has a significantly larger populations and economies to manage than the country of Australia. Almost all of America is habitable and almost none of Australia is. Australia’s habitable land takes up approximately 10% of the actual land mass, with 90% being ‘termed’ uninhabitable. http://37propertygroup.com.au/2012/08/12/population-density/

Sorry, it's a small country the size of one State in terms of population and economy and does not have the same problems as a large country like the USA to compare the two is apples to watermelon; it does not compute.

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/california-vs-the-world_2010-05-10/

You present no argument to demonstrate any correlation between population size, GDP and percentage of habitable land with gun control. You merely spray around googled figures that are entirely out of context in an attempt to counter legitimate questioning of your assertions; such assertions getting wilder and wilder as you dig yourself deeper into numerous holes.

Figures on increases in total number of guns in Australia since 1996 that you have tried to throw around elsewhere are meaningless. The issue is not the ownership but the regulation of ownership which is far stricter and far more effective in Australia as a result of effective, sensible and enforced gun control legislation.

The trouble with googling data to support weak, illogical and inconsistent arguments and statements is that meaningless data does not provide meaning for nonsensical statements. I have spent a number of years living in and working with indigenous people who inhabited your so-called 'uninhabitable' areas of Australia. They and their ancestors have been doing so for probably more than 50,000 years. That's even before indigenous people inhabited the North American continent. I don't know the originator of the nonsense on habitable vs non habitable land that you 'researched' or the context of the data but every 2nd year high school geography student in my home state learns about the difference between arable and non arable land as this has been a guiding factor in the development of that part of Australia since colonisation. But again, serious issues but nothing to do with gun control.

Your objective is clear. You wish to diminish Australia's achievements to support your ideological rant on guns. You attempt to blow the horn of American 'exceptionalism' to justify your point of view. Go for it. These threads occur with appaling frequency and there is always some 'enthusiast' to spout the usual pro-gun nonsense backed up by judicious contributions from the hard right loons talking about the good old days in Texas or Oregon or 'when I was a prison guard'. Next week's mass shooting threat will throw up some other goon to push the party line. It is pleasing to see the number of Americans who appreciate the experience of those who live without fear in communities with well regulated gun laws and understand absolutely the correlation between gun control and th reduction in deaths by firearms.

Go for it. But if you attempt to use information about things that you only find out from Google, then don't be surprised if your silly 'facts' and data are thrown back at you. That pretty much includes almost everything about Australia.

Edited October 4, 2015 by lostboy

[boomerangutang]

I am posting on this forum. I own guns. I'm a combat veteran from Thailand and Vietnam. I'm not afraid. Now you know about one poster on this forum.

A 3 year old retarded girl could pick up a pistol and splatter your brains against a wall. Is she brave also?

[lostoday]

I am posting on this forum. I own guns. I'm a combat veteran from Thailand and Vietnam. I'm not afraid. Now you know about one poster on this forum.

A 3 year old retarded girl could pick up a pistol and splatter your brains against a wall. Is she brave also?

I was responding to a troll poster trying to start a fight as he wrote, "The evidence we have on this forum is that gun owners are the ones living in fear" as you well know and are another troll trying to belittle and start a fight.

No one said anyone who shoots another is not living in fear or anyone who owns guns is not living in fear. The poster above said, "on this forum gun owners are the ones living in fear" and I'm not. I also did not say I was brave. I'm not. So why not concentrate or reading a post and not making up things and changing the meaning of the post.

[lostoday]

The question here is : do you, pro guns who live in thailand, have a gun here? If yes do you own it legally? If no, do you feel your safety threatened ?

It is legal for wives of Farang to own and keep guns in the home as it is legal for wives of Farang to own homes and land.

[lostoday]

Australia is quite small compared to the US? You really do dream this stuff up.

I suggest you use google to compare.

The population of Australia is 10 million less than one state, California (there are 49 other states). If you combine the GDPs of Australia, Burma, the Czech Republic, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Peru and Ukraine, you will have the same size economy as California. California accounted for nearly 3 percent of the worlds GDP in 2008. The Governor of many states in the USA has a significantly larger populations and economies to manage than the country of Australia. Almost all of America is habitable and almost none of Australia is. Australia’s habitable land takes up approximately 10% of the actual land mass, with 90% being ‘termed’ uninhabitable. http://37propertygroup.com.au/2012/08/12/population-density/

Sorry, it's a small country the size of one State in terms of population and economy and does not have the same problems as a large country like the USA to compare the two is apples to watermelon; it does not compute.

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/california-vs-the-world_2010-05-10/

You present no argument to demonstrate any correlation between population size, GDP and percentage of habitable land with gun control. You merely spray around googled figures that are entirely out of context in an attempt to counter legitimate questioning of your assertions; such assertions getting wilder and wilder as you dig yourself deeper into numerous holes.

Figures on increases in total number of guns in Australia since 1996 that you have tried to throw around elsewhere are meaningless. The issue is not the ownership but the regulation of ownership which is far stricter and far more effective in Australia as a result of effective, sensible and enforced gun control legislation.

The trouble with googling data to support weak, illogical and inconsistent arguments and statements is that meaningless data does not provide meaning for nonsensical statements. I have spent a number of years living in and working with indigenous people who inhabited your so-called 'uninhabitable' areas of Australia. They and their ancestors have been doing so for probably more than 50,000 years. That's even before indigenous people inhabited the North American continent. I don't know the originator of the nonsense on habitable vs non habitable land that you 'researched' or the context of the data but every 2nd year high school geography student in my home state learns about the difference between arable and non arable land as this has been a guiding factor in the development of that part of Australia since colonisation. But again, serious issues but nothing to do with gun control.

Your objective is clear. You wish to diminish Australia's achievements to support your ideological rant on guns. You attempt to blow the horn of American 'exceptionalism' to justify your point of view. Go for it. These threads occur with appaling frequency and there is always some 'enthusiast' to spout the usual pro-gun nonsense backed up by judicious contributions from the hard right loons talking about the good old days in Texas or Oregon or 'when I was a prison guard'. Next week's mass shooting threat will throw up some other goon to push the party line. It is pleasing to see the number of Americans who appreciate the experience of those who live without fear in communities with well regulated gun laws and understand absolutely the correlation between gun control and th reduction in deaths by firearms.

Go for it. But if you attempt to use information about things that you only find out from Google, then don't be surprised if your silly 'facts' and data are thrown back at you. That pretty much includes almost everything about Australia.

A school teacher has an easy time with a class of 10 and a difficult time with a class of 50. Australia has a population of 20 million and the USA has 300 million. Do you see the difference? Australia has 33 thousand people in jail. USA has almost 3 million. Do you see the difference? If my only worry was a population the size of Florida with few violent minorities, crime and guns would not be much of a problem.

[lostoday]

I recall a thread only a few weeks back when it was stated there were on average more than 1 mass killing a day in America...

_85880103_02_10_shooting_nocred.jpg

Thursday was day #273 of 2015

I hope Hillary has the Balls to take on the NRA something no male US President has.

She didn't have the balls to take on her husband. Bill is a hunter.

[boomerangutang]

I am posting on this forum. I own guns. I'm a combat veteran from Thailand and Vietnam. I'm not afraid. Now you know about one poster on this forum.

A 3 year old retarded girl could pick up a pistol and splatter your brains against a wall. Is she brave also?

I was responding to a troll poster trying to start a fight as he wrote, "The evidence we have on this forum is that gun owners are the ones living in fear" as you well know and are another troll trying to belittle and start a fight.

No one said anyone who shoots another is not living in fear or anyone who owns guns is not living in fear. The poster above said, "on this forum gun owners are the ones living in fear" and I'm not. I also did not say I was brave. I'm not. So why not concentrate or reading a post and not making up things and changing the meaning of the post.

Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh in my analogy. yet, there's an issue that's always bugged me: how guys use guns to bolster their manliness. We saw it in the Terminator movies and all the movies with Stallone, Chuck Norris, Bruce Willis, etc ad nauseum. Whenever they had a firearm (which was nearly constantly) they always gave the impression they were braver and more masculine than others without (or with smaller) firearms, or others with other types of weapons.

My point was: anyone over the age of 3 can pull a trigger on a firearm - and could kill Arnie, Sylvester, Chuck, Bruce or any Navy Seal or Green Beret.

To me a true fighter is epitomized by someone like Royce Gracie, who has mastered fighting with no weapons, other than his body. A man covered in firearms is, to me, no more of a man and no more courageous than, for example, weaponless David who went to try and save Hannah from harm, last year at Ko Tao.

Certain segments of society and movies have glorified firearms to the billionth degree, and the perverse killings at Oregon campus are just one emanation of that.

[vogie]

I just watched an interview on CNN with the shooter's British father.

Of course he blamed the availability of guns as the entire problem.

Nary a word about the medical profession protecting the crazies or his role in raising a mass murderer.

Frankly I found him rather disgusting, but predictable considering where he is originally from.

Frankly if that's your 'get out of jail card' it hasn't worked.

[lostboy]

Australia is quite small compared to the US? You really do dream this stuff up.

I suggest you use google to compare.

The population of Australia is 10 million less than one state, California (there are 49 other states). If you combine the GDPs of Australia, Burma, the Czech Republic, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Peru and Ukraine, you will have the same size economy as California. California accounted for nearly 3 percent of the worlds GDP in 2008. The Governor of many states in the USA has a significantly larger populations and economies to manage than the country of Australia. Almost all of America is habitable and almost none of Australia is. Australia’s habitable land takes up approximately 10% of the actual land mass, with 90% being ‘termed’ uninhabitable. http://37propertygroup.com.au/2012/08/12/population-density/

Sorry, it's a small country the size of one State in terms of population and economy and does not have the same problems as a large country like the USA to compare the two is apples to watermelon; it does not compute.

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/california-vs-the-world_2010-05-10/

You present no argument to demonstrate any correlation between population size, GDP and percentage of habitable land with gun control. You merely spray around googled figures that are entirely out of context in an attempt to counter legitimate questioning of your assertions; such assertions getting wilder and wilder as you dig yourself deeper into numerous holes.

Figures on increases in total number of guns in Australia since 1996 that you have tried to throw around elsewhere are meaningless. The issue is not the ownership but the regulation of ownership which is far stricter and far more effective in Australia as a result of effective, sensible and enforced gun control legislation.

The trouble with googling data to support weak, illogical and inconsistent arguments and statements is that meaningless data does not provide meaning for nonsensical statements. I have spent a number of years living in and working with indigenous people who inhabited your so-called 'uninhabitable' areas of Australia. They and their ancestors have been doing so for probably more than 50,000 years. That's even before indigenous people inhabited the North American continent. I don't know the originator of the nonsense on habitable vs non habitable land that you 'researched' or the context of the data but every 2nd year high school geography student in my home state learns about the difference between arable and non arable land as this has been a guiding factor in the development of that part of Australia since colonisation. But again, serious issues but nothing to do with gun control.

Your objective is clear. You wish to diminish Australia's achievements to support your ideological rant on guns. You attempt to blow the horn of American 'exceptionalism' to justify your point of view. Go for it. These threads occur with appaling frequency and there is always some 'enthusiast' to spout the usual pro-gun nonsense backed up by judicious contributions from the hard right loons talking about the good old days in Texas or Oregon or 'when I was a prison guard'. Next week's mass shooting threat will throw up some other goon to push the party line. It is pleasing to see the number of Americans who appreciate the experience of those who live without fear in communities with well regulated gun laws and understand absolutely the correlation between gun control and th reduction in deaths by firearms.

Go for it. But if you attempt to use information about things that you only find out from Google, then don't be surprised if your silly 'facts' and data are thrown back at you. That pretty much includes almost everything about Australia.

A school teacher has an easy time with a class of 10 and a difficult time with a class of 50. Australia has a population of 20 million and the USA has 300 million. Do you see the difference? Australia has 33 thousand people in jail. USA has almost 3 million. Do you see the difference? If my only worry was a population the size of Florida with few violent minorities, crime and guns would not be much of a problem.

Clearly the whole concept of governance eludes you. You imply a connection between differential population sizes and gun control but don't offer anything but snide comments centred on simple arithmatic. Utterly meaningless. Your notion of social cohesion is outmoded, discredited and backward. As is your notion of class room management. There is nothing there to offer to any discussion on gun control. Other countries have led the way and provide examples. Ignore, resist and deny them at your peril.

[simple1]

I just watched an interview on CNN with the shooter's British father.

Of course he blamed the availability of guns as the entire problem.

Nary a word about the medical profession protecting the crazies or his role in raising a mass murderer.

Frankly I found him rather disgusting, but predictable considering where he is originally from.

Considering UK nationals have fought & died supporting the US in recent decades, frankly I find your comment rather disgusting.

[up2u2]

Interview with father of boy who committed the mass shooting

[CMNightRider]

To all of the anti-gun posters, did you know Honduras has a population of about 8.2 Million and bans their citizens from owning guns. Honduras has the highest homicide rate in the world. Switzerland has a population of about 8.2 Million and requires their citizens to own guns. Switzerland has the lowest homicide rate in the world.

After this Oregon Community College shooting, Obama used Australia as an example of what they did to prevent shooting massacres. Well gee, Australia took all guns away from their law abiding citizens. A few hours after Obama suggested America should be more like Australia, two police officers in Sydney, Australia are shot to death.

Gun ownership is not a threat to America, the threat is Obama. God bless America.

[Seastallion]

I just watched an interview on CNN with the shooter's British father.

Of course he blamed the availability of guns as the entire problem.

Nary a word about the medical profession protecting the crazies or his role in raising a mass murderer.

Frankly I found him rather disgusting, but predictable considering where he is originally from.

If it was the same CNN interview I just watched, and that has been posted above, then you really have an strange perspective on what you watched.

Disgusting? His heartfelt feelings of sadness for the victims was sad, and far from disgusting.

He asked the question, "How could he have obtained 13 guns?" It's a valid question, that I'm sure the police will be asking too. Nothing disgusting about it.

His role in raising a mass murderer? That is disgusting. Firstly, the young man did not live with his father, and secondly, even more disgusting is you are trying to attribute the sins of the son to the father.

People from Britain are disgusting? Well, you're entitled to your opinion. Many here will disagree with you.

[Neurath]

The notion that these mass killings are a result of mental illness should be taken seriously. It should be taken seriously in the sense that the demographics of the shootings should be foremost in mind when seeking a response that might go some way to making America safer from such attacks. Notice that these types of shootings are almost exclusively perpetrated by young white men. Going further, homicides by shooting are almost exclusively perpetrated by young men of all colors and races. Guns should be me made illegal to all men between the ages of 13 and 55. Of course women, who have shown that they do not have a predilection toward killing others with guns and have hence shown themselves to be responsible as a gender when owning a guns, should be allowed to conceal and carry in all places and at all times. As Ripley said, "It's the only way to be sure".

[simple1]

To all of the anti-gun posters, did you know Honduras has a population of about 8.2 Million and bans their citizens from owning guns. Honduras has the highest homicide rate in the world. Switzerland has a population of about 8.2 Million and requires their citizens to own guns. Switzerland has the lowest homicide rate in the world.

After this Oregon Community College shooting, Obama used Australia as an example of what they did to prevent shooting massacres. Well gee, Australia took all guns away from their law abiding citizens. A few hours after Obama suggested America should be more like Australia, two police officers in Sydney, Australia are shot to death.

Gun ownership is not a threat to America, the threat is Obama. God bless America.

Australian government did not 'took all guns away from their law abiding citizens', nor were two police officers murdered in Sydney. The individual murdered, by a 15 year old terrorist, was a civilian approached from behind & shot in the back of the head without warning, the civilian being armed would have made zero difference to the outcome. The young killer was shot dead within a few minutes by armed police.

For those that wish to understand the facts of Australian gun laws...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia

[NanLaew]

No it didn't stop it and the rise in these Muslim terrorist killings will continue in Australia and Europe. Before long those killings will outnumber anything happening in the US. The traditional citizens will be powerless and get mowed down with no chance to defend themselves.

Not in my neighborhood...

Play the long game. Things change over time and the security that many grew up with is fast disappearing. By the time they see it it will be too late.

The American citizen will be the last one standing against these terrorists. 100 million of us say "just try it".

Cheers.

Muslim terrorist killings of non-Muslim in Australia, North Africa and Europe since a certain evil caliphate started 'inspiring' people... 76.

Mass shootings in the US since the start of the year... 264.

Deaths in the US 'from terrorism' in the past 10 years... 313.

Deaths in the US from guns in the past 10 years... 316,545

Claiming that protecting US citizens from Muslim-inspired atrocities are some part of the NRA's own mantra of "bringing happiness to the people" .. Priceless.

How can I say this?... Your 'long game' post is absolutely drenched in self doubt and insecurity.

PS. I can't wait for the 'from my cold dead hands' post, btw.

2001 by Muslims from Saudi Arabia. (9/11) is the largest I think. 3003 people murdered. 8700 injured. By limiting to 10 years you miss the largest and most catastrophic murders. I don't really think the difference between 10 and 14 years is significant unless you are trying to cover up the largest atrocity which I think is your point but no one is fooled. It is like saying how many people were murdered in death camps in the past 70 years = 0. How many in the past 75 years = 10 million. Get it?

Covering up what and foollng who? Thanks to CNN, we can crank the time frame back to include America's second most infamous day in history and guess what...? You do the math.

Get it?

[lostoday]

A 3 year old retarded girl could pick up a pistol and splatter your brains against a wall. Is she brave also?

I was responding to a troll poster trying to start a fight as he wrote, "The evidence we have on this forum is that gun owners are the ones living in fear" as you well know and are another troll trying to belittle and start a fight.

No one said anyone who shoots another is not living in fear or anyone who owns guns is not living in fear. The poster above said, "on this forum gun owners are the ones living in fear" and I'm not. I also did not say I was brave. I'm not. So why not concentrate or reading a post and not making up things and changing the meaning of the post.

Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh in my analogy. yet, there's an issue that's always bugged me: how guys use guns to bolster their manliness. We saw it in the Terminator movies and all the movies with Stallone, Chuck Norris, Bruce Willis, etc ad nauseum. Whenever they had a firearm (which was nearly constantly) they always gave the impression they were braver and more masculine than others without (or with smaller) firearms, or others with other types of weapons.

My point was: anyone over the age of 3 can pull a trigger on a firearm - and could kill Arnie, Sylvester, Chuck, Bruce or any Navy Seal or Green Beret.

To me a true fighter is epitomized by someone like Royce Gracie, who has mastered fighting with no weapons, other than his body. A man covered in firearms is, to me, no more of a man and no more courageous than, for example, weaponless David who went to try and save Hannah from harm, last year at Ko Tao.

Certain segments of society and movies have glorified firearms to the billionth degree, and the perverse killings at Oregon campus are just one emanation of that.

I don't like true fighters and think the concept is childish and belongs in Hong Kong Kung <deleted> movies. A gun is a tool. When I was a soldier I took my tools to work. When my grandfather defended Australia he didn't take a Karate course he took a gunnery course and shot people with guns to keep Australia free. The nut in Oregon used a gun to kill Christians. It was a hate crime. He didn't do it because he had a gun he did it because he hated Christians.

[lostoday]

2001 by Muslims from Saudi Arabia. (9/11) is the largest I think. 3003 people murdered. 8700 injured. By limiting to 10 years you miss the largest and most catastrophic murders. I don't really think the difference between 10 and 14 years is significant unless you are trying to cover up the largest atrocity which I think is your point but no one is fooled. It is like saying how many people were murdered in death camps in the past 70 years = 0. How many in the past 75 years = 10 million. Get it?

Covering up what and foollng who? Thanks to CNN, we can crank the time frame back to include America's second most infamous day in history and guess what...? You do the math.

Get it?

This is a hate crime. The media attention to gun crimes is a diversion so the people don't get any more angry than they are at each other.

Hate crimes should be compared to hate crimes. The gun control spotlight is media trying to manipulate ignorant people into making it an election issue and you are falling for the hype.

[lostoday]

A school teacher has an easy time with a class of 10 and a difficult time with a class of 50. Australia has a population of 20 million and the USA has 300 million. Do you see the difference? Australia has 33 thousand people in jail. USA has almost 3 million. Do you see the difference? If my only worry was a population the size of Florida with few violent minorities, crime and guns would not be much of a problem.

Clearly the whole concept of governance eludes you. You imply a connection between differential population sizes and gun control but don't offer anything but snide comments centred on simple arithmatic. Utterly meaningless. Your notion of social cohesion is outmoded, discredited and backward. As is your notion of class room management. There is nothing there to offer to any discussion on gun control. Other countries have led the way and provide examples. Ignore, resist and deny them at your peril.

The concept of city like Detroit eludes you. Australia does not have one. Crime in Australia is not the same as crime in America.

If you have a problem in America in many places cops don't come to help you. It is not the same in Australia.

You want to compare Australia gun/crime with America OK. Adjust your ethnic populations to match America.

Pick places in America that have a ethnic and population match to Australia. Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming those kinds of places. Gun crimes? Next to none.

[DisparateDan]

Are there any statistics involving firearms for .....

Number of home invasions resulting in "victories" by the home owners, compared to the contrary.?

Number of neighborly disputes resulting in exchange of gunfire and wounding/death. I don't know if gang territorial disputes should qualify.

Road rage disputes settled by gunfire.

Just Curious, it may add ammunition, (no pun intended), to the debate.

.........................................................................................................................

It is clear that the massacres infrequently target police stations, so it might follow that schools should engage armed guards and the students be bused in in Humvees..

Since they would not offer such a soft target, the nutter need only look to other defenseless/ difficult to defend groups, as is already evident.i.e..cinemas and churches.

It takes little thought to conclude that the concept of armed protection for all groups is impractical.

The only answer, (as they ain't giving up their guns), is that everyone is armed, which would delight the NRA I'm sure.

[Neurath]

2001 by Muslims from Saudi Arabia. (9/11) is the largest I think. 3003 people murdered. 8700 injured. By limiting to 10 years you miss the largest and most catastrophic murders. I don't really think the difference between 10 and 14 years is significant unless you are trying to cover up the largest atrocity which I think is your point but no one is fooled. It is like saying how many people were murdered in death camps in the past 70 years = 0. How many in the past 75 years = 10 million. Get it?

Covering up what and foollng who? Thanks to CNN, we can crank the time frame back to include America's second most infamous day in history and guess what...? You do the math.

Get it?

This is a hate crime. The media attention to gun crimes is a diversion so the people don't get any more angry than they are at each other.

Hate crimes should be compared to hate crimes. The gun control spotlight is media trying to manipulate ignorant people into making it an election issue and you are falling for the hype.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/10/02/oregon-shooter-said-to-have-singled-out-christians-for-killing-in-horrific-act-of-cowardice/

"Another account came from Autumn Vicari, who described to NBC News what her brother J.J. witnessed in the room where the shootings occurred. According to NBC: “Vicari said at one point the shooter told people to stand up before asking whether they were Christian or not. Vicari’s brother told her that anyone who responded ‘yes’ was shot in the head. If they said ‘other’ or didn’t answer, they were shot elsewhere in the body, usually the leg.”"

This seems to be the evidence. Having seen people shot in the head for answering one way, imagine doing the same? Seems the non Christians got shot too.

Anyway, the solution is to ban gun sales to and gun possession by men between the ages of 13 and 55. They're the ones doing all the shooting and guns don't kill people kill and the people doing the killing are men between the ages of 13 and 55.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

The question here is : do you, pro guns who live in thailand, have a gun here? If yes do you own it legally? If no, do you feel your safety threatened ?

It is legal for wives of Farang to own and keep guns in the home as it is legal for wives of Farang to own homes and land.

So doyou have a gun?

If the wife can have a gun that doesn't mean you can carry a gun with you

[chuckd]

I just watched an interview on CNN with the shooter's British father.

Of course he blamed the availability of guns as the entire problem.

Nary a word about the medical profession protecting the crazies or his role in raising a mass murderer.

Frankly I found him rather disgusting, but predictable considering where he is originally from.

Frankly if that's your 'get out of jail card' it hasn't worked.

Hows could you possibly come up with the idiotic assumption that I need a "get out of jail free" card.

Where is your "get a life" card?

[NanLaew]

2001 by Muslims from Saudi Arabia. (9/11) is the largest I think. 3003 people murdered. 8700 injured. By limiting to 10 years you miss the largest and most catastrophic murders. I don't really think the difference between 10 and 14 years is significant unless you are trying to cover up the largest atrocity which I think is your point but no one is fooled. It is like saying how many people were murdered in death camps in the past 70 years = 0. How many in the past 75 years = 10 million. Get it?

Covering up what and foollng who? Thanks to CNN, we can crank the time frame back to include America's second most infamous day in history and guess what...? You do the math.

Get it?

This is a hate crime. The media attention to gun crimes is a diversion so the people don't get any more angry than they are at each other.

Hate crimes should be compared to hate crimes. The gun control spotlight is media trying to manipulate ignorant people into making it an election issue and you are falling for the hype.

I would wager that most violent deaths by the bullet in the US are because someone hated someone else so I don't really understand your diversion here.

So what if people "get more angry than they are at each other"? All they need to when all riled up is go get a gun and take care of it no?

In the initial coverage, the media filtered the reporting to specifically eliminate the 'religion' aspect by saying the shooter simply asked victims what was their religion. It's only after about a day that it has become clear that the shooter specifically asked if victims were Christian before killing them. It's the right-wing media that's getting their panties in a bunch with their rather lame "Christians were being targeted so it is only another a hate crime so better go get your guns".

[NanLaew]

A school teacher has an easy time with a class of 10 and a difficult time with a class of 50. Australia has a population of 20 million and the USA has 300 million. Do you see the difference? Australia has 33 thousand people in jail. USA has almost 3 million. Do you see the difference? If my only worry was a population the size of Florida with few violent minorities, crime and guns would not be much of a problem.

Clearly the whole concept of governance eludes you. You imply a connection between differential population sizes and gun control but don't offer anything but snide comments centred on simple arithmatic. Utterly meaningless. Your notion of social cohesion is outmoded, discredited and backward. As is your notion of class room management. There is nothing there to offer to any discussion on gun control. Other countries have led the way and provide examples. Ignore, resist and deny them at your peril.

The concept of city like Detroit eludes you. Australia does not have one. Crime in Australia is not the same as crime in America.

If you have a problem in America in many places cops don't come to help you. It is not the same in Australia.

You want to compare Australia gun/crime with America OK. Adjust your ethnic populations to match America.

Pick places in America that have a ethnic and population match to Australia. Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming those kinds of places. Gun crimes? Next to none.

Interesting... there's one of your protagonists on this thread who is comparing the US gun homicide statistics versus gun ownership with Honduras and Switzerland.

Can you tell him he's also barking (up the wrong tree)?

[Neurath]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. And the people who kill people with guns are men between the ages of 13-55. Women don't kill people with guns with anything like the same frequency as so men. This proves that guns don't kill people, that people kill people and it shows that the best way of stopping the truly astonishing rates of gun deaths in this here USA is to ban and heavily prosecute the possession of guns by all all males between the ages of 15-55. It's the only way to be sure. If only women have guns it might also go some way to reducing the rates of domestic violence against women.