Sinsod amount?

[Syke1911]

I want to marry my Thai girlfriend. I literally have no money saved, but make OK money each month.

My girlfriend is rich, studied abroad, great job, no children.

The concept of Sinsod was foreign to me. She says I need to ask her mother the amount, and she suggested her mother will say it's up to me to decide. And also, she suggested that her mother would give the money back to me after.

I've asked what her Thai friends who got married have typically paid, and it's around 1,000,000 baht.

Both my girlfriend and her mother know I have no money. Would my girlfriend get angry, if I suggest that she lend me the money for the wedding, since her mother is going to give it back anyways? My girlfriend does have sufficient money to be able to do this, I just don't know if she'd get pissed off for whatever reason.

[beano2274]

The Mother might give some back to you, but maybe not all of it.

1 million is a bit too much for a Thai guy to be paying!!!!But for us farangs about normal, depends on the

family and what they are like, I was lucky mine was 400,000baht, and my MIL even gave that to me.

This would also help you get a company done as per your other topic, and then you only need 2 Thai employees if married.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/861461-starting-business-hiring-four-thais/#entry9941321

[Syke1911]

The Mother might give some back to you, but maybe not all of it.

1 million is a bit too much for a Thai guy to be paying!!!!But for us farangs about normal, depends on the

family and what they are like, I was lucky mine was 400,000baht, and my MIL even gave that to me.

This would also help you get a company done as per your other topic, and then you only need 2 Thai employees if married.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/861461-starting-business-hiring-four-thais/#entry9941321

Great, thanks.

Is it appropriate for me to ask her mother, when I approach her about the Sinsod, to ask if she will give it all back? I can probably borrow a million from my family, if it's agreed that she'd return the funds. I just don't know if it's rude to bring up such a subject.

[MaeJoMTB]

Don't do it.

She isn't a piece of meat to be bought and sold.

No need for marriage, just live together.

[Syke1911]

Don't do it.

She isn't a piece of meat to be bought and sold.

No need for marriage, just live together.

I totally agree.

We do just live together, but she wants children very soon and says it would upset her mother very much so, to have children outside of marriage.

[richard_smith237]

The Mother might give some back to you, but maybe not all of it.

1 million is a bit too much for a Thai guy to be paying!!!!But for us farangs about normal, depends on the

family and what they are like, I was lucky mine was 400,000baht, and my MIL even gave that to me.

This would also help you get a company done as per your other topic, and then you only need 2 Thai employees if married.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/861461-starting-business-hiring-four-thais/#entry9941321

Great, thanks.

Is it appropriate for me to ask her mother, when I approach her about the Sinsod, to ask if she will give it all back? I can probably borrow a million from my family, if it's agreed that she'd return the funds. I just don't know if it's rude to bring up such a subject.

No, its not appropriate for you to negotiate with your future Mother In Law... If you have a respected Thai friend (usually senior - referred to as a Tau-Gair (sp?)) he could discuss this on your behalf, but not you.

Generally the money is just for show, unless of course you are marrying into a greedy family who has little respect for you, in which case you may find you face bigger issue than Sin-Sod. Thus, your Girlfriend is your future Wife, you should be able to have an open discussion with her about this. You are a team therefor sourcing the money together should be ok with her, albeit a modern and compromising approach a traditional practice.

By the way, ignore posters such as MaeJoMTB - he's the latest forum antagonist, some of what he writes is mildly amusing if you are in a juvenile mood, he'll live a long time because he takes nothing seriously with the exception of sex... I'm actually surprised he didn't quote a famous line... 'why buy the cow......'

Of course, he lacks a certain level of knowledge beyond a certain circle / demographic - Not many respectable parents in Thailand will be comfortable with you living with their daughter unless you are married,... with perhaps the exception of some progressive international families.

[MaeJoMTB]

Don't do it.

She isn't a piece of meat to be bought and sold.

No need for marriage, just live together.

I totally agree.

We do just live together, but she wants children very soon and says it would upset her mother very much so, to have children outside of marriage.

If it would upset her mother, maybe time to explain in our country, bride parents pay groom.

PS

Don't borrow money, sometimes they keep it, after promising to return it, and you have no come back.

[richard_smith237]

Don't do it.

She isn't a piece of meat to be bought and sold.

No need for marriage, just live together.

I totally agree.

We do just live together, but she wants children very soon and says it would upset her mother very much so, to have children outside of marriage.

As she is clearly not following Thai tradition by living with you before marriage, you should be able bypass sin-sod too...

Unless of course your GF is cherry picking which parts of culture / tradition suit her / her families needs....

[MaeJoMTB]

Of course, he lacks a certain level of knowledge beyond a certain circle / demographic - Not many respectable parents in Thailand will be comfortable with you living with their daughter unless you are married,... with perhaps the exception of some progressive international families.

And yet Prime Minister Yingluck had several children without marriage, and nobody seemed bothered about that.

The voters who elected her weren't bothered either.

Are you accusing the 'Shinawata' dynasty of not being respectable?

PS, ...... why buy the cow ..........

I prefer, marriage is a little bit like buying a Jumbo jet, because you like eating peanuts.

[TuskegeeBen]

If she does get pissed-off with you, about loaning the sinsod amount, then start shopping for a new model. Your current girl-friend, is just a bedmate, not a potential lifetime partner. Capiche?

[asdecas]

Since you naturally have some emotional capital invested, it's up to you to weigh that against what you can afford and the limits of your trust that you will receive the money back from your putative mother-in-law. Nobody else can make that judgement but you.

As a general rule of thumb though, it is a good idea to have a Plan B in Thailand against things going awry, as they are perhaps more apt to do than in your home country.

Personally I would never consider the notion of sin sot, but that's probably water under the bridge in your case.

[Crash999]

I paid 1m baht sinsod which was returned. Plus some gold which wasn't. Between wealthy families Thai men can pay far, far more- a friend of mine (Thai) dropped 9 million baht sinsod plus a massive pile of gold.

It's not so much the amount but also the effort you are putting forth to do it. Borrowing from your GF is an option but she likely would want to keep it a secret from everyone.

Edit- Forgot to mention that returning the money was something my wife had discussed with her mother. Not all families are that open so otherwise I would ask a senior Thai friend to help.

[oxo1947]

Oh Good a SinSod post.......haven't had one of those for..............Hours.....................

[richard_smith237]

Of course, he lacks a certain level of knowledge beyond a certain circle / demographic - Not many respectable parents in Thailand will be comfortable with you living with their daughter unless you are married,... with perhaps the exception of some progressive international families.

And yet Prime Minister Yingluck had several children without marriage, and nobody seemed bothered about that.

The voters who elected her weren't bothered either.

Are you accusing the 'Shinawata' dynasty of not being respectable?

PS, ...... why buy the cow ..........

I prefer, marriage is a little bit like buying a Jumbo jet, because you like eating peanuts.

Several Children ? She has a Son with her common law husband - there are photos on the net of their wedding ceremony.

As with my In Laws... they are not officially / legally married, but had a Wedding ceremony, this is true of many Thai families...

In these cases, the Marriage is the ceremony and for all intent and purposes considered a marriage.

In Thailand there is quite a difference between this and simply living together without any type of ceremony.

[TPI]

It must be "love"! It beggers belief that a semi hi-so lady wants to marry a pennyless farang! Mother is wealthy and you expect her to pitch in with the sin sod? Mate! Something is very suss, are you sure she is really Thai?

[atyclb]

Hmmm, does this mean a cowboy bargirl claiming a guy offered her 2 million to marry him is a sleight mistruth ?

[h90]

The Mother might give some back to you, but maybe not all of it.

1 million is a bit too much for a Thai guy to be paying!!!!But for us farangs about normal, depends on the

family and what they are like, I was lucky mine was 400,000baht, and my MIL even gave that to me.

This would also help you get a company done as per your other topic, and then you only need 2 Thai employees if married.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/861461-starting-business-hiring-four-thais/#entry9941321

Great, thanks.

Is it appropriate for me to ask her mother, when I approach her about the Sinsod, to ask if she will give it all back? I can probably borrow a million from my family, if it's agreed that she'd return the funds. I just don't know if it's rude to bring up such a subject.

If she gives it back, suggest you give a symbolic cheque (self printed) at 2 million. That is the way many Thais do it. Just have the symbol.....

[MaeJoMTB]

In these cases, the Marriage is the ceremony and for all intent and purposes considered a marriage.

In Thailand there is quite a difference between this and simply living together without any type of ceremony.

I did the Amphur office marriage, and no ceremony at all.

The Thai government and The British government consider me married, and those who just did the ceremony not married.

I'm not sure if I care what a bunch of inbred illiterate hillbilly's that live in stick huts in the Thai jungle think of my marital status.

Up to them!

[mickyboy]

they are full of it money grabbiing little devils i married my wife paid nothing and she even paid for her visa and air fare to come to the uk whats up with these people giving away there hard earned money forget culture would you give that money to some one else parents in your own country marry for love not for what they can screw you for your be looking after her for the rest your life any way

[h90]

In these cases, the Marriage is the ceremony and for all intent and purposes considered a marriage.

In Thailand there is quite a difference between this and simply living together without any type of ceremony.

I did the Amphur office marriage, and no ceremony at all.

The Thai government and The British government consider me married, and those who just did the ceremony not married.

I'm not sure if I care what a bunch of inbred illiterate hillbilly's that live in stick huts in the Thai jungle think of my marital status.

Up to them!

You are taking sense and argue with logic.....you'll be bashed! Common sense and logic is not appreciated here

[mankondang]

Have you researched this topic on other internet websites? There are many websites that you can research this, too many to quote. Please read many and try to find info specific to your Thai family area. These matters do vary from rural villages let alone provinces. The amount of Sinsot also varies with many factors, gf education (she's worked abroad), their contribution to her education (she's earning good money from it), her family standing in their community (she's rich). Please read more on other websites as the well intended TV posts, inc mine, may not be the best.

I do know many young Thai guys who have paid 1M bhat. Taken loans to do so. I do know that many Sinsot is secretly returned. The Sinsot gold is exclusively for your gf not her family. You say she is educated and worked abroad...yes after you know all the traditional Thai stuff, then I'm sure you can sit down and talk with her about it all. Best of luc

[OmarZaidMD]

If she does get pissed-off with you, about loaning the sinsod amount, then start shopping for a new model. Your current girl-friend, is just a bedmate, not a potential lifetime partner. Capiche?

Exactly .... test her !

[Doc46]

Sinsod is a sin,they can sod off

[wombat]

"around 1,000,000 baht"

borrow it from your golden pussy girlfriend.......problem solved

[craigt3365]

I had to deal with this years ago. Just couldn't wrap my head around this, so ended up putting some 500k or so into my MIL's bank account and showed that at the wedding. The next day, it was transferred back to me. I also gave a bunch of gold, but it was maybe a few thousand dollars. The gold went to my wife.

Easy to solve and you're eventually out NO money. For better or worse, it's all about face here.....

[Syke1911]

It must be "love"! It beggers belief that a semi hi-so lady wants to marry a pennyless farang! Mother is wealthy and you expect her to pitch in with the sin sod? Mate! Something is very suss, are you sure she is really Thai?

Well she doesn't like Thai guys.. She went to graduate school in Canada, and wants to marry a Canadian for whatever reason. And she wants to live in Canada. And she's 33, so the clock is ticking.

I do not want to live in Canada though, as I live very well here, but am considered poor in Canada

[MaeJoMTB]

It must be "love"! It beggers belief that a semi hi-so lady wants to marry a pennyless farang! Mother is wealthy and you expect her to pitch in with the sin sod? Mate! Something is very suss, are you sure she is really Thai?

Well she doesn't like Thai guys.. She went to graduate school in Canada, and wants to marry a Canadian for whatever reason. And she wants to live in Canada. And she's 33, so the clock is ticking.

I do not want to live in Canada though, as I live very well here, but am considered poor in Canada

Point 1,

She's already too old and too educated to get a Thai husband (of the class to which she feels entitled). Not wanting a Thai guy is a crock, she ain't got a choice (and at 33 she wouldn't get any sinsot, well past her sell by).

Point 2,

So she just wants to marry you for the Canadian passport? Beware of this, they often divorce the moment they are naturalized. And Canadian divorce courts are very generous to women.

[crazydrummerpauly]

If you feel you have to ask this rabble how your girlfriend might react etc...then you are in no position even to contemplate marriage !!!

[Jaggg88]

Don't do it.

She isn't a piece of meat to be bought and sold.

No need for marriage, just live together.

I totally agree.

We do just live together, but she wants children very soon and says it would upset her mother very much so, to have children outside of marriage.

As she is clearly not following Thai tradition by living with you before marriage, you should be able bypass sin-sod too...

Unless of course your GF is cherry picking which parts of culture / tradition suit her / her families needs....

Unfortunately Thai women do indeed cherry pick their cultural traditions. I was informed a sin sod would have to be paid when I married but I pointed out as she had been married before no sin sod was required. A quick read of the book 'Thailand Fever' will give you a basic knowledge of Thai tradition.

Following proper Thai tradition you would court your wife with a chaperone and a trusted friend would negotiate a sin sod with her parents. The sin sod should only be paid if the girl is a virgin, never been married and has no children. Any girl outside this parameter has to accept a much reduced sin sod or none at all. However, in recent years a sin sod is paid by a rich farang so the family can show off to the relatives at the wedding and then return some or all of it to the groom. They are under no legal requirement to return the sin sod so if they change their mind you will be out of pocket. The same goes for the tradition engagement gold gift (khong man) .

Here's some legal advice:

http://usa.siam-legal.com/family-law/thai-dowry.php

[richard_smith237]

In these cases, the Marriage is the ceremony and for all intent and purposes considered a marriage.

In Thailand there is quite a difference between this and simply living together without any type of ceremony.

I did the Amphur office marriage, and no ceremony at all.

The Thai government and The British government consider me married, and those who just did the ceremony not married.

I'm not sure if I care what a bunch of inbred illiterate hillbilly's that live in stick huts in the Thai jungle think of my marital status.

Up to them!

Ah.. but its not about you... Its about your Wife and In Laws... and I for one know that my In Laws cared greatly what their friends and family would have thought had their daughter lived with someone before they were married (Amphur document or ceremony - in our case both).

My Wife knew exactly where she wanted to get married, girls have these sort of fairy tale ideas - it was her day, well and her parents who had also invited a multitude of guests...

You see MaeJoMTB (and others) - its not just about you / us... its about how your / our future wife and her and family continue to be respected in their communities.

Thinking purely from our point of view may be considered a dash selfish and self centred - it doesn't really bode well for a mutually respectful relationship between all concerned (including parents / in laws).

Thus, some compromises are not really too painful to make when considering the bigger picture.

In this case - If the Ops girlfriend is happy to put up the money for Sin-Sod to display at a ceremony and maintain tradition (and the tradition of face!), then a mutually acceptable and respectful solution is at hand.