UK Visa Refusal for Thai Girlfriend

[drdavey1]

Dear all,

I am hoping you would be so kind to give me some assistance with a visa refusal for my Thai girlfriend for her to visit me on a UK Visitor General visa for 1 month.

Firstly some background. We met March 2015. Spend 2 weeks together. I re-visited August 2015 and spent 3 weeks together during which time we visited Singapore together as well as Hua Hin, Bangkok, etc etc.

We put together a very good visa pack including evidence of talking every single day. It was a pretty big pack. full of photos, letters, statements etc. We put a lot into it. This wasn't a 2 bit thing.

Her visa appointment was 30th September and the whole thing took 5 minutes, to our great surprise as we had spent a long time practising and she had learned all about me. To her shock they then called her out of the blue the next day from a phone number I tracked back to the UK Embassy on Wireless road and asked her some very tricky questions which she panicked about, which anyone would.

Anyway, The reasons for refusal from UK Visa office are as follows.

- I am sending her 28000 baht per month. I am doing so via my ATM card which I gave her. Although we provided every single ATM receipt from where she took money they said there was no evidence I was sending money.

- As part of her evidence she submitted her bank statement which showed 296000 baht deposits in September 2015. They said there was absolutely no evidence of where this money came from and he did not believe it belonged to her. Which is fair enough.

- She said she was working in the family business, again he argued there was no evidence to support this.

- He mentioned we had only known each other for 6 months and only spent 5 weeks together although he did accept that we had been in conversation every day and was satisfied by the photographic evidence.

- the Final paragraph said on the balance of probabilities she is not a genuine visitor and has no intention of returning to Thailand.

My thoughts are, I need to start sending her money to her bank account rather then using ATM??

She needs to show bank statement showing realistic deposits rather then showing 300000 baht??

That leaves the final things where she needs to supply evidence of her working with her family?? This is difficult as we all know Thailand is such an informal economy. She is prepared to get a job full time at a shop but obviously its not ideal.

Finally I have no idea of how we declare her intention to return to Thailand after her month visit. It concludes by saying there is no right of appeal and only to try again if there is either a significant change in personal circumstances or significant new evidence supplied, which doesn't sound encouraging.

Any help gratefully received. We basically just want to spend a month together in England.

Thankyou,

David.

Edited October 8, 2015 by drdavey1

[jacksam]

Immigration is in my opinion absolutely correct to reject your application. Almost all their reasons are correct. Not in order but seriously you just haven't know her long enough. While they never state a minimum.time 6 ,months is cutting it to minimum. Hello bells you have spent 5 weeks with her.

You need to put it on backburner. Try and come to Thailand again. Her work gig to me is not convincing.

She needs show "compelling reason to return to Thailand" ,She has not. There are other ways to demonstrate this. You did not state your ages. Where you met etc. Does she have any travel history. More info will assist members to advise you. Important thing is never give misleading info to immigration.

[drdavey1]

Thanks for honest reply Jacksam. Appreciate it.

I don't disagree that they were correct to reject the decision and do not contest it. I merely seek to prepare a better application next time.

To add more info, I am 33 she is 20. We met in Pattaya, she worked in a bar. She has a little travel history as went to Singapore together in August 2015. She now lives in Nakhon Ratchasima with her family.

We declared all the above as part of the immigration, no false representation was made at any stage.

[bobrussell]

The Entry Clearance Officer refused the application because he or she considered there were issues regarding income. There is nothing wrong with sending money on a regular basis but it should be accounted for. Evidence of transfer from your account to hers is a good idea.

The banks are not keen on ATM cards being used by anyone else but the cardholder and my mother in law now has a card from a second account but has a letter stating she is authorised to carry the card. It has no legal validity but might just nip a problem in the bud!

The ECO is satisfied with the genuine nature of your relationship according to the refusal notice but clearly the reasons to return are weak and will need improvement in a subsequent application. Documented employment can be helpful here and can be in a family run business.

The application sounds a bit weak and needs work to improve the chances of a visa being issued. This is why it was rejected, not because of the length of the relationship. It is perfectly possible to get a visit visa for someone you have just met as long as an ECO can be persuaded that he or she will comply with the terms of the visa.

A visa refusal like this is not any sort of black mark on her history but there is some work to do before the next application goes in. The pinned visit visa thread is pretty comprehensive!

Edited October 8, 2015 by bobrussell

[JAFO]

DRDavey1,

Not sure where to start. This one is totally stacked against you and likely will be for quite sometime.

• No formal job to return too
• No real estate
• Young
• No vehicle
• Money in the bank means nothing. That could easily be transferred after she left. I had heard of some as soon as they left they transferred to a friend and they wired to them.
• Not that I would want pictures but appearance plays a big role.

All I can say is good luck.

[jacksam]

OP some replies May sound harsh but probably coming from xpats living here. The stuff we have seen particularly those that are no strangers to bars still sometimes shock me. Even when a lady finds a b/f. Especially if he is sending money to her on a regular basis. The family or her usually ain't happy with that. Why not go to work and get some more "boyfriends"

Long distance relationships are very difficult. Just a suggestion but if you can afford to bring her to UK and back then why not come here to Thailand. It's much cheaper to do things together here and would help with an application down the tract. Also pics with family and her village would be a plus. You mention she might stay for some time when she visits UK . Don't underestimate how much she will miss los. I've taken mine to Australia and been to some very nice places. Yes she loves it but shells bells they miss los. She being young prob makes it worse. If your intending to work while she is in UK then good luck with that. Things like Skype line etc that allow video calls. Use them every day. At various times

[Jip99]

Immigration is in my opinion absolutely correct to reject your application. Almost all their reasons are correct. Not in order but seriously you just haven't know her long enough. While they never state a minimum.time 6 ,months is cutting it to minimum. Hello bells you have spent 5 weeks with her.

You need to put it on backburner. Try and come to Thailand again. Her work gig to me is not convincing.

She needs show "compelling reason to return to Thailand" ,She has not. There are other ways to demonstrate this. You did not state your ages. Where you met etc. Does she have any travel history. More info will assist members to advise you. Important thing is never give misleading info to immigration.

I got a visa for someone who had known her partner for5 months.

It is the overall picture that matters and satisfying the 3 key criteria.

The OP thinks he put together a 'good visa pack', clearly that was not the case - especially if the ECO was bombarded with photos that they no longer want.

A new application correcting the shortcomings stated in the refusal letter should see a successful outcome

[jacksam]

jip 99. OP has know lady for very short time. She is also 20. She has no funds , no job and moreover ZERO compelling reason to return to Thailand.

You state that a properly constructed application should be successful. Love your self confidence.

Im certainly not saying it's not possible but on facts provided the application needs a lot of effort and luck.

When my gf made her first application we for example, had a complete itinerary for time in AU. Flight tickets within the country, accommodation etc etc. Also I was living with her in bkk and travelling together. I only throw up my gf application as you stated "you knew someone who abstained visa only knowing someone for 5 months. You did not mention the other key requirements. Perhaps that lady had a job etc etc

Let's compare apples to apples

Edited October 9, 2015 by jacksam

[jacksam]

In this case one reason the photos mean very little is that the OP has spent a total of 5 weeks together. One useful purpose of pics is to show a portfolio OVER TIME. Different locations, different parts of Thailand etc.

[cornishcarlos]

Does her family own the bar she works in ? She should be able to show evidence of that..

You are very trusting, giving her your ATM card after being with her 5 weeks

[jacksam]

Does her family own the bar she works in ? She should be able to show evidence of that..

You are very trusting, giving her your ATM card after being with her 5 weeks

Apart from.the fact that atm card is not so good for support of visa application, it is one of the better ways to transfer funds to tgf or someone you are helping. There are debit cards that cannot be used as credit cards. Bank transfer and western union very expensive. So to are atm, but withdrawing larger amounts. Not good but sensible method

[asdecas]

OP, you've received the cross-section of replies that I would expect on this forum, from cynical to comical to helpful.

Your application, I'm sure you'll come to see in time, was naive and premature, engendered no doubt by your enthusiasm for the lady. If you think I am wrong in that judgement, I would point to the fact that you send the girl 28k Baht a month, having spent a mere five weeks with her in total. Frankly, to me that is folly of the first order.

But no matter, as others have said, the British Embassy will - rightly, in my view - not be rushed in these matters, given the number of applications these days from girls whose boyfriends are convinced after a few days or weeks that they've met the love of their life. Experience usually, but not always, teaches otherwise.

A spot of patience and forbearance will see you home in a few months' time, if that continues to be what you want. In the meantime I would focus on preparing for your next application, and pay attention to the letter to exactly what your girl's rejection letter says needs doing.

[Just1Voice]

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but when you say she's 20, and worked in a bar in Pattaya, but now lives back home in Nakon Nowhere with her parents, thanks to your financial generosity, tends to make me think she feels like she's hit the Pattaya Farang Lottery. Seriously, man, think about it. How many chef's have dipped their spoons into that stew before you did? And please don't give me the: "Oh, but she's different" line. We have all heard that one a few hundred (thousand) times before and guess what? She's not different after all. She's 20, you're 33, but at this stage, she's the smarter of the two of you. She's thinking with her brain, while you're thinking with your testicles. If you ended things with her today, by tomorrow night she'd be right back in the bar looking for another one, with little regret for the "one who got away".

[tigermonkey]

When you make such an application, you need to have the same mindset as the ECO. I will never be stated in the reasons for refusal, but here is what they think. Any application from a single Thai woman to go on a vacation to be with her boyfriend ( or even husband) who lives ( and works) in Britain ,is regarded by the ECO as a de facto immigration application. This is based on their experience of thousands of "tourists" who arrive for a visit and never go home. When you submit the application, you must do everything to prove to a highly suspicious ECO that she will return to Thailand as scheduled.

This is based on anecdotal evidence from dozens who have been refused, as well as three failed applications by my wife, one of which was before marriage. We since have 2 successful applications, The last of the refused applications was with her self employed in a successful business (well documented), 6 figure balance in the bank, new car ownership, property ownership, an official of her Moo Baan ( large village) and an elderly mother to care for. This was still not enough to prove that she would return to Thailand. The turning point ( told to me by an ECO in confidence) was proof that I also lived in Thailand, and she wanted to come back to me.

Be patient - someday you will be successful.

[brewsterbudgen]

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but when you say she's 20, and worked in a bar in Pattaya, but now lives back home in Nakon Nowhere with her parents, thanks to your financial generosity, tends to make me think she feels like she's hit the Pattaya Farang Lottery. Seriously, man, think about it. How many chef's have dipped their spoons into that stew before you did? And please don't give me the: "Oh, but she's different" line. We have all heard that one a few hundred (thousand) times before and guess what? She's not different after all. She's 20, you're 33, but at this stage, she's the smarter of the two of you. She's thinking with her brain, while you're thinking with your testicles. If you ended things with her today, by tomorrow night she'd be right back in the bar looking for another one, with little regret for the "one who got away".

What does that have to do with the visa refusal? The OP didn't ask for cliched relationship advice. Edited October 9, 2015 by brewsterbudgen

[roblgs]

the Final paragraph said on the balance of probabilities she is not a genuine visitor and has no intention of returning to Thailand

I think this is the kicker... as stated, there is no evidence in your visa pack to persuade them of this... Other things might be flimsy, but this aspect is completely absent,... and it is the biggy.

Does she have assets in Thailand, held in her name... Car, condo, house, land?

Is she a sole or part-owner (documented) in a business?

Does she have and regularly service mortgage, loans and/or hire purchase agreements... anything that establishes a solid financial record and credit-worthiness

Does she have a job, with regular salary backed up by pay slips (minimum of several months), and potentially a letter from her employer that she has worked for so long and has leave to travel for a month and still have a job to return to when she comes back.

Someone else has mentioned a history of previous overseas travel... good idea, especially if to another country where visa would be a requirement.

In short, it's a lengthy process to establish such. Some she may be able to satisfy already, but others will take time to setup and age sufficiently to be useful.

Added: Someone else has commented that the ECO's standard assumption in these cases is that the applicant is actually looking to reside, not just visit. There needs to be compelling evidence to the contrary, and the burden of proof lies with the applicant that she intends to return to Thailand within the period allowed by the visa, if granted. If the ECO is not satisfied of this then the visa will not be granted.

Cheers

Edited October 9, 2015 by roblgs

[georgemandm]

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but when you say she's 20, and worked in a bar in Pattaya, but now lives back home in Nakon Nowhere with her parents, thanks to your financial generosity, tends to make me think she feels like she's hit the Pattaya Farang Lottery. Seriously, man, think about it. How many chef's have dipped their spoons into that stew before you did? And please don't give me the: "Oh, but she's different" line. We have all heard that one a few hundred (thousand) times before and guess what? She's not different after all. She's 20, you're 33, but at this stage, she's the smarter of the two of you. She's thinking with her brain, while you're thinking with your testicles. If you ended things with her today, by tomorrow night she'd be right back in the bar looking for another one, with little regret for the "one who got away".

So true

[louse1953]

Thanks for honest reply Jacksam. Appreciate it.

I don't disagree that they were correct to reject the decision and do not contest it. I merely seek to prepare a better application next time.

To add more info, I am 33 she is 20. We met in Pattaya, she worked in a bar. She has a little travel history as went to Singapore together in August 2015. She now lives in Nakhon Ratchasima with her family.

We declared all the above as part of the immigration, no false representation was made at any stage.

Did you put her "job" as finding a faring buffalo who would support her and her family in the manner to which they have become accustomed...and that now she is retired.

Do buffs have farings now,must be racing buffs on Samui.

[terminatorchiangmai]

Stop sending her money and see if she still chat with you everyday.

This can only go wrong in the long end.

[jacksam]

As a few sensible posts have mentioned.....your going to need to work on the old "compelling reason to return".

My gf did not have a job, so we needed to look at other reasons to return. Sadly I can't think of many for your gf.

Some of the things we used.

She had a daughter (by itself means very little) however everything you can add helps build a picture of reason to return. We lived together and had lease. She had lived same place for five years. Owned motor bike. Many many other things we provided. Pictures of us together, no on beach but family events such as weddings etc.

Befor any member jumps on me saying these account for very little, in one way that is true but the thing is to show SOME reasons to return. Personally I cannot understand immigration emphasis on job. I can't see a 15k baht job as a reason to return.

Problem for the OP is that the young gf has very little scope to demonstrate good reason to return.

Finally, I hear time and again that money in bank is not required. True many visas granted without money in her bank. It is also true that some things are subjective measures in the mind of imm. For example say you have falling out in first week. How can she support herself. There have been threads where the family has gifted her the money. However this needs to be backed up with bank statements etc.

My suggestion to the OP would be to transfer money into her bank account over next few months. (BTW I would not for reasons mentioned in some posts) BTW if she is back at home what's she spending 28k on. 15k or lower here is a common wage and those ladies are renting and living places like bkk. You are providing 28k?? . You could place 20k a month into her bank. Money she does not touch. The other 8k can go onto the atm for her to live. She if she will do that. Not happy then you have more info about your relationship status.

Early days here girls I would talk to would say.....'....Jack take your time. That was good advice.

Edited October 9, 2015 by jacksam

[yardrunner]

don't know if this will help, in 2010 I invited my Thai wife to have a holiday in UK with me, I was still living in the UK at the time. my wife had never flown and was afraid to come by herself so I invited my stepdaughter (over 21) as well letter was written to the UK embassy in Bangkok explaining the reason and they gave a visa to my wife but refused my daughter. I contacted my MP and two months later out of the blue my daughter got a message to go to the UK embassy in Bangkok to have a visa put in her passport

[thaiduncankk]

Thousands of these '5 week relationships' have been turned down.

I really think you wasted your money in applying in the first place.

And as for sending 28,000 baht a month, for what ?

I will probably get a few negative replies, but this (the relationship,

not the visa application), is gonna end in tears.

Edited October 9, 2015 by thaiduncankk

[transam]

Think your mistake was telling them you are sending a young bird 500 quid a month for doing sod all...

I would suggest they totally understand what she did for a living in Pats and how she built up 300,000bht in her bank.

That is a lot of money for any young bird to acquire, and for sure no shop worker could amass such funds. If she came from a reasonably well off family don't think she would be doing stuff in Pats.

There must be a zillion blokes out there doing or trying to do what you're doing and UK visa folk deal with it every day..

[BuriRamHome]

Thousands of these '5 week relationships' have been turned down.

I really think you wasted your money in applying in the first place.

And as for sending 28,000 baht a month, for what ?

I will probably get a few negative replies, but this (the relationship,

not the visa application), is gonna end in tears.

There are more than 1 million people in the UK who entered on a visitors visa (source Border Patrol UK) and never left at the end of their visa.

The Embassy is quite right to make entry to UK difficult to keep the scammers out and ensure genuine visitors only are admitted.

[TheRascal]

I've had 2 girlfriends visit me in the UK. First one in 2011 before I moved to Thailand, I had known her 6 months when we applied and we'd spent a grand total of 2 weeks together, had no photos and I'd never sent her money - writing this now it sounds crazy that I'd ask someone to visit so soon but she was approved, came over for 6 months and although we later broke up I don't regret it at all, we're still good friends and I'm glad she had the opportunity to see the UK.

My last gf visited with me for 7 weeks, we had photographs from all over Thailand, again I hadn't supported her financially at all - she was again approved for a 6 month visa but as I now live here we only stayed for just under 2 months.

I've also had a good female Thai friend visit her boyfriend in the UK (for 4 months) and a friend here who has taken his girlfriend to the UK every year for the past 3 years.

Rather than listing everything that put in the applications I'll only note the thing they ALL had in common which I think is by far the most important - and has already been mentioned above in posts and in your reason for refusal - reason to return to Thailand. All girls mentioned above had jobs with legitimate companies who provided proof of employment and a letter explaining they could take the time off and would have a job to return to. None of them own property or vehicles in Thailand.

Your gf can't provide this and the fact she is employed by her family is going to make any letter pretty suspect anyway.

I'd go as far to suggest that the fact you've sent her money every month is detrimental to your application, with the greatest respect in the world (and 100% not intimating this about your gf) it's often girls from a prostitution background who are getting a monthly stipend from their partner and they are the ones who are likely to go off the radar and work illegally in the UK.

[NicoBKK]

Folks with very fishy background are flooding Europe from all sides of the development world, by camel, boat or hidden in luggages or trucks, yet Embassies are bothering for legitimate people travelling on an expensive plane seat to have holidays with loved ones.

[transam]

Folks with very fishy background are flooding Europe from all sides of the development world, by camel, boat or hidden in luggages or trucks, yet Embassies are bothering for legitimate people travelling on an expensive plane seat to have holidays with loved ones.

Who pays for the expensive plane seat...A Thai..?

[thaiduncankk]

Folks with very fishy background are flooding Europe from all sides of the development world, by camel, boat or hidden in luggages or trucks, yet Embassies are bothering for legitimate people travelling on an expensive plane seat to have holidays with loved ones.

Loved ones ?

Ask yourself a question.

5 weeks, from a bar in Pattaya !

Add to that the fact that he is sending her an extortionate amount of money every month,

it is total b*llocks.

Edited October 9, 2015 by thaiduncankk

[crazykopite]

Your 33 she is 20 and worked as a bar girl come on get real how many other guys are sending her money from other countries , the embassy is right to turn her down for a number of reasons and what the hell is she doing each month with the money you send , how did she survive before meeting you there's a true saying in Thailand. No Money No Honey in 10 years of living in the kingdom I have seen farangs going home skint and broken hearted having thought they had found the love of there life as soon as you stop sending her money you will never hear from her again if you don't believe me give it a try. Sorry to sound so blunt but sometimes the truth can hurt !!!!

[Ace of Pop]

Folks with very fishy background are flooding Europe from all sides of the development world, by camel, boat or hidden in luggages or trucks, yet Embassies are bothering for legitimate people travelling on an expensive plane seat to have holidays with loved ones.

Who pays for the expensive plane seat...A Thai..?

Bit like "My Wife Bought a Car Mob".Ive only met one who did.And thats a Company provided one technically ..