jaypen Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Today a friend informed me that my non immigrant b visa had become null and void when my work permit expired. My work permit expired on 13 August 2015 and my non imm visa (done here in Thailand as an extension of stay) will expire on 2 November 2015. Before my work permit expired I asked my company if it impacted my visa and they said not, I also did a successful 90 day report a couple of weeks after my work permit expired. My mother is joining me here next week with plans to travel Thailand for the next month, for this reason I am going to do a Laos trip this Sunday to get a tourist visa. Now I'm worried that I will be charged overstay at the border as my non imm visa is no longer active. An honest but stupid mistake. Can anybody tell me for sure if they will charge me or worse deport me? Some people mentioned that the immigration and labor departments don't work together and so it should be fine. I want to be prepared and not leave anything to chance. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMac Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Officially you have no visa but an extension of stay. As the reason for the extension, here work, is no longer valid, the extension is no longer valid. So officially you are on overstay. Practically there is no check between existing work contract/work permit and extension. Your extension remains valid for immigration and travel, as long as nobody looks into it. You have now 2 options, play the game accepting the risk and use your extension or leave the country and get a new visa. Changing to a different visa in-country is no option as you are on overstay. Was in the same situation some years ago, but not in TH, with a B extension and resigned job. Got a new O visa (marriage) in Singapore and came back with 2 valid ones . So, up to you, take the risk or play safe. Edited October 9, 2015 by MadMac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oncearugge Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Another example of a failure to understand the difference between "Visa" and an extension of stay. The OP does not say if he is still working if so he is working illegally. If not working the extension of stay became invalid on the day work ceased. Too late now to "fix" anything but with any luck and providing there is no valid re-entry permit in the passport there will be no problem Edited October 9, 2015 by oncearugge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaypen Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Thanks MadMac I am definitely going to Laos on Sunday to get a tourist visa (as I'm just going to be traveling with my mom for the next month, returning to my country December 15th). My worry is that I will be charged overstay and denied entry back into Thailand whilst I'm in Laos. Is this a possibility? It would be really bad as my mom is arriving on Wednesday morning! One person suggested I fly to Laos as there is less chance of being checked, but direct flights are pricey! Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaypen Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Oncearugge Thanks for your reply. You're right I did not realize the difference between a visa and extension of stay. The company I worked for provided a service that did my work permit and visa, and I never asked the right questions. I am no longer working but I am going to be traveling. I do have a re-entry permit as I was out of the country in January. What does this mean for me? Is it a problem? *** edit Sorry I misunderstood what you meant by valid re entry permit. I do NOT have a re-entry permit, and so I should be able to acquire a tourist visa. Edited October 9, 2015 by jaypen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMac Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 No, you wont be charged. You just go out normally as your extension is still intact. What should worry you more is the new visa you would like to get. The old extension is still valid and they can't give you 2 valid visas. May cause more trouble than any gain. Why not just ride it out, it does not change anything if you leave the country now or in 1 month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaypen Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 No, you wont be charged. You just go out normally as your extension is still intact. What should worry you more is the new visa you would like to get. The old extension is still valid and they can't give you 2 valid visas. May cause more trouble than any gain. Why not just ride it out, it does not change anything if you leave the country now or in 1 month. The reason I wanted to do it now is that my mom leaves on November 2nd (the day my extension expires) and I wanted to see her off at the airport, but I decided on this course of action before I even knew there was any problem. If waiting a month is the better option, I will let mommy dearest fend for herself and leave Thailand on the 2nd. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaypen Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 No, you wont be charged. You just go out normally as your extension is still intact. What should worry you more is the new visa you would like to get. The old extension is still valid and they can't give you 2 valid visas. May cause more trouble than any gain. Why not just ride it out, it does not change anything if you leave the country now or in 1 month. If I leave the country without an entry permit does this not forfeit my extension? I do not have a multiple entry permit. Therefore doing the run this Sunday would be fine? Sorry I've been panicking a bit and clearly not thinking clearly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMac Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Without re-entry it should be no problem. That will cancel the old status automatically. But again, it would not matter if you leave now or in one month as you are already on overstay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Thanks MadMac I am definitely going to Laos on Sunday to get a tourist visa (as I'm just going to be traveling with my mom for the next month, returning to my country December 15th). My worry is that I will be charged overstay and denied entry back into Thailand whilst I'm in Laos. Is this a possibility? It would be really bad as my mom is arriving on Wednesday morning! One person suggested I fly to Laos as there is less chance of being checked, but direct flights are pricey! Thanks again You'll have to fly out of Thailand anyway because you'll need a termination letter from your employer to submit to the immigration if you leave the country by land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMac Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 You'll have to fly out of Thailand anyway because you'll need a termination letter from your employer to submit to the immigration if you leave the country by land. How could this possibly be verified? You just get an exit stamp and that's it. Never heard of such thing, but I usually fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaypen Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Thanks MadMac I am definitely going to Laos on Sunday to get a tourist visa (as I'm just going to be traveling with my mom for the next month, returning to my country December 15th). My worry is that I will be charged overstay and denied entry back into Thailand whilst I'm in Laos. Is this a possibility? It would be really bad as my mom is arriving on Wednesday morning! One person suggested I fly to Laos as there is less chance of being checked, but direct flights are pricey! Thanks again You'll have to fly out of Thailand anyway because you'll need a termination letter from your employer to submit to the immigration if you leave the country by land. Ok I finally understand! Sorry, as I said I've been in a bit of a spin worrying about this and have not been thinking clearly! New plan is this - I will fly to Singapore (flights are much cheaper than to Laos) on 2 November (the day my visa expires). I will return the next day on the 30 day free tourist visa, which I will extend in December allowing me to stay till my flight home on 15 December. Do you see any problems arising with this? My boyfriend of 2 years is Thai and my life is here, so I am planning to come back in February next year and wanted to find a new job, will getting a work permit be an issue in the future after this stupid mistake? I really feel like a wally, but i am unable to fix my mistake now! Thanks so much for all your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMac Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Keep a cool heart as they say here Nothing will really happen unless you trigger it. You may want to apply for a multiple entry tourist visa in SG, not the visa exemption you mean. If you have a visa, not an exemption, you may be able to convert this in-country into an non-immi. Depending on what you want to do. But this is in the future. So get your things straight first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 You'll have to fly out of Thailand anyway because you'll need a termination letter from your employer to submit to the immigration if you leave the country by land. How could this possibly be verified? You just get an exit stamp and that's it. Never heard of such thing, but I usually fly. There have been many reports that the Nong Khai and Mukdahan crossings will not allow you to leave without a termination letter to cancel an extension based upon working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGImInPattaya Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Thanks MadMac I am definitely going to Laos on Sunday to get a tourist visa (as I'm just going to be traveling with my mom for the next month, returning to my country December 15th). My worry is that I will be charged overstay and denied entry back into Thailand whilst I'm in Laos. Is this a possibility? It would be really bad as my mom is arriving on Wednesday morning! One person suggested I fly to Laos as there is less chance of being checked, but direct flights are pricey! Thanks again You'll have to fly out of Thailand anyway because you'll need a termination letter from your employer to submit to the immigration if you leave the country by land. Ok I finally understand! Sorry, as I said I've been in a bit of a spin worrying about this and have not been thinking clearly! New plan is this - I will fly to Singapore (flights are much cheaper than to Laos) on 2 November (the day my visa expires). I will return the next day on the 30 day free tourist visa, which I will extend in December allowing me to stay till my flight home on 15 December. Do you see any problems arising with this? My boyfriend of 2 years is Thai and my life is here, so I am planning to come back in February next year and wanted to find a new job, will getting a work permit be an issue in the future after this stupid mistake? I really feel like a wally, but i am unable to fix my mistake now! Thanks so much for all your help! You could even do the "airport" visa run if going to Singapore...go and return on the same day and save on hotel. The Singapore airport is a great place to hang out for a few hours. Also, you need to get your terms right, when you return, you will receive a 30-day visa exempt entry stamp (unless you qualify for and get a visa on arrival). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) AFAIK, if you return to Thailand by air and get an automatic 30-day visa exempt entry from Immigration at the airport, you can later extend that 30-day stamp for an additional 30 days by paying a 1900 baht fee at Thai Immigration in country. Thus, that would cover you from Nov. 2 until your planned mid December departure. You could also apply for a tourist visa in Singapore, which would automatically cover the length of time you need. But check here on how the Thai Consulate in Singapore is for issuing tourist visas. And, that would require some length of hotel stay in Singapore, which would certainly be more expensive than extending a visa-exempt entry inside Thailand. Edited October 10, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) No, you wont be charged. You just go out normally as your extension is still intact. What should worry you more is the new visa you would like to get. The old extension is still valid and they can't give you 2 valid visas. May cause more trouble than any gain. Why not just ride it out, it does not change anything if you leave the country now or in 1 month. That really is bad advice. If you are on extension of stay for working and your employement ends, your extension of stay cancels the same day. Immigration don't care if you filed 90 day report after your work permit expired. Immigration don't care if your employer didn't give you a termination letter. And they don't care if you reported the end of your employment to immigration or not. As far as immigration are concerned you are on overstay and you will be required to pay the overstay fine. I know this because this happened to me many years ago. At best, your employer may pay the overstay fine because they basically lied to you. (at least my employer did) And if you ever plan on working in thailand again, without the termination letter to immigration and the labor department you will have problems with immigration. Edited October 10, 2015 by Time Traveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLDBUGGY Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 No, you wont be charged. You just go out normally as your extension is still intact. What should worry you more is the new visa you would like to get. The old extension is still valid and they can't give you 2 valid visas. May cause more trouble than any gain. Why not just ride it out, it does not change anything if you leave the country now or in 1 month. The reason I wanted to do it now is that my mom leaves on November 2nd (the day my extension expires) and I wanted to see her off at the airport, but I decided on this course of action before I even knew there was any problem. If waiting a month is the better option, I will let mommy dearest fend for herself and leave Thailand on the 2nd. Thanks Why not fly out with dear old mom on the same day as her and go to Laos then, to get your Tourist Visa? Your Visa is good until then. If you take a later flight you still might be able to see her off and go through Customs with her to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMac Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) That really is bad advice.Ok guys, let's face reality. OP is already officially on overstay since August. Leaving now or in a month does not change that. I've been in the same situation, not so long time ago. Wrote that already. I resigned while on a project in Indonesia, being on a B-extension. I traveled on the extension back to TH, in and out at least 2 times. Nobody cares, as work permit and visa/extension are not connected. Thus there was also never a letter of termination or anything like that. Never even heard of such thing. I got a new multiple entry O at the embassy in SG. Came back to TH and they were wondering how I could have 2 valid visas in my passport. Told them to use the O and no more questions ask. So for the OP, I would simply ride the extension out and leave the country by plane. Nobody will ask any questions. Problems occur only if you trigger them, like with a visa run to Laos. Edited October 10, 2015 by MadMac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lekong Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 OP. you Non B visa is still valid in as much as immigration doesn't know that your work permit has expired. And the immigration will not check that when you are traveling to Laos by land. Again the immigration will not ask for your work permit when your visa is still valid. So you can still use it without any problem. As someone said before, if you don't cancel the visa before going out for a tourist visa, it will be difficult to get it since your present Non B has not expired or is still valid. So it will be advisable to continue to use this visa until it expires and let your mum help herself to leave Thailand on November 02 or so. You can then go for the tourist visa towards the end of the expiration of your present visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suradit69 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Another example of a failure to understand the difference between "Visa" and an extension of stay. The OP does not say if he is still working if so he is working illegally. If not working the extension of stay became invalid on the day work ceased. Too late now to "fix" anything but with any luck and providing there is no valid re-entry permit in the passport there will be no problem "Another example of a failure to understand the difference between "Visa" and an extension of stay." Agree. If someone points out the difference, he is usually accused of being pedantic or playing with semantics. Certainly for some people the distinction is not a big thing ... usually someone incorrectly stating he's been here on a retirement visa for 10 years (but he knows enough to get a re-entry permit if he travels) or something similar ... but then for others, being here on an extension of stay rather than a visa entry has some implications that may have frustrating and possibly expensive consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lekong Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 No, you wont be charged. You just go out normally as your extension is still intact. What should worry you more is the new visa you would like to get. The old extension is still valid and they can't give you 2 valid visas. May cause more trouble than any gain. Why not just ride it out, it does not change anything if you leave the country now or in 1 month. That really is bad advice. If you are on extension of stay for working and your employement ends, your extension of stay cancels the same day. Immigration don't care if you filed 90 day report after your work permit expired. Immigration don't care if your employer didn't give you a termination letter. And they don't care if you reported the end of your employment to immigration or not. As far as immigration are concerned you are on overstay and you will be required to pay the overstay fine. I know this because this happened to me many years ago. At best, your employer may pay the overstay fine because they basically lied to you. (at least my employer did) And if you ever plan on working in thailand again, without the termination letter to immigration and the labor department you will have problems with immigration. How will the immigration know that his employment has ended? How will the immigration know that his work permit has expired? He can still use that visa without any problem at the immigration since it is still valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oncearugge Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 OP. you Non B visa is still valid in as much as immigration doesn't know that your work permit has expired. And the immigration will not check that when you are traveling to Laos by land. Again the immigration will not ask for your work permit when your visa is still valid. So you can still use it without any problem. As someone said before, if you don't cancel the visa before going out for a tourist visa, it will be difficult to get it since your present Non B has not expired or is still valid. So it will be advisable to continue to use this visa until it expires and let your mum help herself to leave Thailand on November 02 or so. You can then go for the tourist visa towards the end of the expiration of your present visa. The OP does not have a "VIsa" he has an "extension of stay" ! Much less "confusion" would arise if people would learn the difference! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 OP. you Non B visa is still valid in as much as immigration doesn't know that your work permit has expired. And the immigration will not check that when you are traveling to Laos by land. Again the immigration will not ask for your work permit when your visa is still valid. So you can still use it without any problem. As someone said before, if you don't cancel the visa before going out for a tourist visa, it will be difficult to get it since your present Non B has not expired or is still valid. So it will be advisable to continue to use this visa until it expires and let your mum help herself to leave Thailand on November 02 or so. You can then go for the tourist visa towards the end of the expiration of your present visa. He does not have a visa. He has an extension of stay. If he had a valid visa from and embassy or consulate it would remain valid. From immigration website. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php "If the alien granting extension of stay permit in The Kingdom for the reason of working at a business company/organization etc., resigns from such company / organization, his/her stay permit will be immediately terminated. As a consequence, The stay permit of his/her dependents will be terminated as well. Work Permit and Stay Permit must be revoked by competent officials." As I wrote in an earlier post they do ask for a termination letter when you try to leave the country at the crossings to Laos if you are on extension based upon working and do not have a valid work permit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMac Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Again, his extension is no longer valid. It expired with the resignation from the job. However that is not visible for immigration as WP and Extension are not linked. It is a calculable risk to take, as OP is already in overstay. I'd not draw further attention by doing a visa run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 No, you wont be charged. You just go out normally as your extension is still intact. What should worry you more is the new visa you would like to get. The old extension is still valid and they can't give you 2 valid visas. May cause more trouble than any gain. Why not just ride it out, it does not change anything if you leave the country now or in 1 month. That really is bad advice. If you are on extension of stay for working and your employement ends, your extension of stay cancels the same day. Immigration don't care if you filed 90 day report after your work permit expired. Immigration don't care if your employer didn't give you a termination letter. And they don't care if you reported the end of your employment to immigration or not. As far as immigration are concerned you are on overstay and you will be required to pay the overstay fine. I know this because this happened to me many years ago. At best, your employer may pay the overstay fine because they basically lied to you. (at least my employer did) And if you ever plan on working in thailand again, without the termination letter to immigration and the labor department you will have problems with immigration. How will the immigration know that his employment has ended? How will the immigration know that his work permit has expired? He can still use that visa without any problem at the immigration since it is still valid. I don't know. But if you're whole point is based on "oh well immigration won't know", then you're basically saying break the law because you probably won't be caught. As I said, that is really bad advice. And if he ever wants another work permit, then he'll need to present a termination letter from the old employer. Once immigration see the dates, they'll work out very soon that he was on overstay then start demanding payment of fines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtto Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 This has probably been answered many times before but reading the above leaves me confused. If you have a 1 year multiple entry B visa is it still valid after the job stops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oncearugge Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 This has probably been answered many times before but reading the above leaves me confused. If you have a 1 year multiple entry B visa is it still valid after the job stops? If one actually has a multi entry "Visa" issued at a Thai Embassy or Consulate then it remains valid and can be used until it expires. The "confusion" arises as a result of people insisting on calling "Extensions of Stay" visas which they are not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 This has probably been answered many times before but reading the above leaves me confused. If you have a 1 year multiple entry B visa is it still valid after the job stops? If you have a visa issued by an embassy or consulate it will remain valid, Only extensions done by immigration end when the job ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 This has probably been answered many times before but reading the above leaves me confused. If you have a 1 year multiple entry B visa is it still valid after the job stops? If you have a Visa it is still valid. If you have an extension of stay it is not. One reason why getting the correct terminology is so vital. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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