Crackdown on Thai nominees

[Fat Haggis]

It's not all down to these dodgy real estate agents, there are plenty of farangs who know full well what they're doing isn't kosher.

There's probably quite a few who are Thai visa members too. ?

[denby45]

Only 13 firms out of 6000? They obviously did not look hard, thus is this really a crackdown?

Yes! 0.21 of a single percent! What a haul!!

Finally someone got the math(s) right.

Den

[elgordo38]

A crackdown on Thai nominees was always going to happen.

however, some of the figures quoted here are ridiculous.

Only 13 companies?? Yes, right.

They obviously haven't looked hard enough.

There must be thousands and I'd suggest that the vast majority of businesses owned by foreigners in Thailand are actually in breach of this regulation.

Maybe some bahts changed hands. This could be a good income generator.??

[dageurreotype]

What a good initiative as " some foreign-owned businesses were involved in unscrupulous activities to lure customers", bloody foreigner. They come to Thailand and cannot follow the honest, above board and tranparent business practices utilised by Thai companies.

Next thing you know the will be using social media to get atound advertising regulations!

They mean titty bars and time shares. Good.

[Peter Strand]

Biggest bullshit ever, you can pay everybody off here in Thailand, so I assume that the companies who found guilty not wanted to pay the tea money or could not afford it. Thailand is what it ever will be: A 3rd world country with corruption everywhere, a booming prostitution business with crappy night club districts which stinking like hell ( Bangla road for example ). My advice: let the locals do their business and enjoy the good things in Thailand: The beaches, the sunsets and the beauty of the Russian tourist ladies :-) All other is crap and a rip off.

[dageurreotype]

I am Proud to retire to Thailand

I think us retired Farangs should help the Govt by helping with crackdown by giving information

The Govt should open a hotline for tips

Christ you're naive. Just sit yourself down in any beer bar ob Phuket/Pattaya and join the rest of the farang 'assisting the police'

[Nomyai]

so does that mean If I buy a house via a company structure to comply with thai ownership laws I will be investigated for unscrupulous exploitation of Thailand and its honest law abiding government agencies?

what a funny country to decide to call home for the foreseeable future, oh well glad the food and the people are nice

Im not a big fan of thai food!

[Jim walker]

time to sell up and head for china sack Thais and employ a few Chinese insted if they do decide to have a real clamp down

[kannot]

I take it the 6162 "paid up" then?

[kannot]

so does that mean If I buy a house via a company structure to comply with thai ownership laws I will be investigated for unscrupulous exploitation of Thailand and its honest law abiding government agencies?

what a funny country to decide to call home for the foreseeable future, oh well glad the food and the people are nice

Im not a big fan of thai food!

Im not a big fan of Thai people!

[GAZZPA]

I hear what people are saying here,, just another crackdown and nothing will happen etc,, but I am a little concerned.

I suspect all small / medium and many large businesses work this way, its the way the lawyers direct you to set up the company. Indeed many lawyers even offer their staff as nominees. It is the only way anyone could ever set up a business because the idea of putting all your money into Thailand and then handing it over to a Thai person to manage and run it is absolutely absurd.

Ask the average Thai if they would set up a business abroad and then hand over the majority of shares and control of the company to a foreigner.

If they do decide to crackdown it will be a disaster, for the foreign business owners here, for foreign investments in the future and for local economy. If they decide to just make examples of some people then it will be the unluckiest day of their lives as they potentially watch their livelihoods and home being taken away. Either way, your entire living, your money and possibly your house (if you own it through your company) are at the whim of some local Thai official. To me, that would be a very uncomfortable place to be.

I know a lot of people are going to say, yes but it was always wrong. Well that maybe the case but Thailand created this playing field and the Thai politicians and legal system created the loophole, so rather then clampdown they should just fix it and make it more fair so foreigners can invest with confidence.

One thing for sure, if the crackdown is real foreigners will be running for the lifeboats.

[MockingJay]

In a nutshell, the "complexity" of the average Thai mindset could be boiled down to just that - the 51% Thai and 49% Foreign restriciton when it comes to foreign investment. It perfectly shows the typical Thai attitude: "Give me everything you own and don't forking expect anything back in return, you stupid retarded Farang, and if you don't like it, go home!" Knowingly they leave loopholes open as otherwise no one would invest here at all. Then they crack down on it. Not very much different from "investing" in either red or black on a Roulette table...

Edited October 12, 2015 by MockingJay

[MockingJay]

i am running small tailor shop in prachuabkirikhan and DSI was in my shop to investigate nominees shareholders,and files a case against me,

does anyone knows what the penalty will be for having fake nominee shareholders for 2 million company.??

Few bottles of Chivas and 20k in an envelope for the head of the DSI team I'd guess?

[GAZZPA]

Many Thais have bank accounts overseas, own houses, businesses etc but extend the same considerations to foreigners here, absolutely not can't have any of Thailand in the hands of mere foreigners.

Please give us your money but don't expect too much, if anything, in return.

So who is the smart country and who is the mug?

Short term you could say that but not long term you cannot. Anyway, if this clampdown was to happen for real how can it be smart to effectively close the door on foreign investment because it would. I think it is the policy of a dumbass who cannot see past the end of their xenophobic nose...

[jaywalker]

Many Thais have bank accounts overseas, own houses, businesses etc but extend the same considerations to foreigners here, absolutely not can't have any of Thailand in the hands of mere foreigners.

Please give us your money but don't expect too much, if anything, in return.

So who is the smart country and who is the mug?

Short term you could say that but not long term you cannot. Anyway, if this clampdown was to happen for real how can it be smart to effectively close the door on foreign investment because it would. I think it is the policy of a dumbass who cannot see past the end of their xenophobic nose...

I'm pretty sure that if one brings in 30 million baht or more to invest, then special BOI (Board of Investment) rules apply, which are night & day as compared to somebody investing 4 million in a bar = they aren't going after any of the bigger players.

It is still interesting to see them constantly moving the goal posts around though.

[jpb1963]

so does that mean If I buy a house via a company structure to comply with thai ownership laws I will be investigated for unscrupulous exploitation of Thailand and its honest law abiding government agencies?

what a funny country to decide to call home for the foreseeable future, oh well glad the food and the people are nice

Excuse me, Sir, but if you 'buy a house via a company structure', you do not comply with Thai ownership laws, you go around them, and that's a hell of a big difference.

You may not be happy with these laws insomuch as they do not fit in with your own agenda, but like it or not, they make sense - at least within the world as it is, ie divided into countries who are (at least on paper) sovereign over their own territory.

If Thailand had allowed foreigners full ownership of houses and/or land a long time ago, places like Phuket and many others woud now be almost entirely and officially in the hands of foreigners. When that happens, the political situation is jeopardized because we are in a capitalist system where ownership is the basis for economics and therefore politics.

You can't support the notion of countries, nation, ownership etc and disavow the choice that was made by Thai authorities.

Please note, however, that unlike many other countries around here, Thailand actually did its best to accomodate the need for resident foreigners to own their dwellings, by allowing them to own 49% of the total surface in every condominium. Not perfect, not fantastic, but better than nothing. If you don't want to live in a condo, you can still buy one, rent it out, and use the money to rent a house.

The lease system here is flexible enough to allow foreigners to rent a house for a long time and within a pretty secure legal framework. To do things the right way, what you need is patience, caution, advice, counter advice ... however I don't see much of that around here because, let's face it, foreigners tend to have this I-know-better approach which often causes them to launch head first into deals that are not kosher.

You can call this country home, but you can't call it England, or Germany, or France or Australia or America. Do you have a problem with that ?

SIR

Let me congratualte you on a precise, articulate reply, 100% correct in everything you say. I think estate agents have a lot to answer for byt stretching existant laws, to suit their need to earn money at any cost.

LOL, let me thank you profusely for the congratulations, SIR

About the responsibility of real estate agents here, I couldn't agree more. How many times have I have heard them around here, talking to potential buyers and starting with this mantra : "there are several ways for a foreigner to buy property in Thailand ..."

No, in fact, there are not. I know it, you know it, they know it, yet again and again they repeat this deliberate lie to their potential customers.

wow...!!

my comments above re purhcase was made after consulting a with lawyers, perhaps taking the mick at the end was lost on some...

I did not allude to not liking the laws of Thailand

In fact quite the opposite I have nothing but respect for my newly adopted home country - complete with its nuances both good and bad.

I do not for one minute expect nor try to bend things to western ways, in fact I do not appreciate any one that goes to another country then bludgeons that country because it is not like "home"

in really simple terms if one does no like the country that they choose to live in then I my view they should <deleted> off back to where they came from.

Having just lost $700K on a real estate deal in Australia the risks and exposure are no different.

You are telling me that I am trying to step around Thai Law by way of a company structure yet this very Law facilitates property ownership in Thailand so pray tell how am I trying to avoid what exactly..

You know what I think I will continue to seek legal advise from those that are trained, educated and Licensed to dispense same,

Good Day to you.

[Basil B]

Only 13 firms out of 6000? They obviously did not look hard, thus is this really a crackdown?

A quick read says it all...

Selective... there are instances where they wish to turn a blind eye, that's why this this purge is is a none starter just like the others, just rattling the rusty sabre again

Wonder what Thailand would say if other countries imposed the same restrictions on foreigners (Thai's) ownership of companies and land? possible something that the British government must be considering after SSI...

[DavisH]

I am Proud to retire to Thailand

I think us retired Farangs should help the Govt by helping with crackdown by giving information

The Govt should open a hotline for tips

Will you also report retirees for working illegally? I hope so....

[gandalf12]

Sounds a bit like the movie "The Village" by Shyamalan

[gandalf12]

What made me really laughing: they are scared of "technology transfer"

Thailand never developed any technology, they depending 100 % on foreign technology and whithout the foreigners they would be still only digging in the rice fields with their buffalos!

Thais are paranoid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Historically, in broad terms, what you say is true.

But not completely true these days, especially since the returning yearly wave after wave of overseas trained PhDs have started to change the scene. There has been some growing success from this form of transfer - not technology transfer, although that has happened too, but education of Thailand's best overseas, and then they return home.

The problem is the environment they return to - out date (mis)management of Universities, lack of R&D budgets, lack of human resource to supervise in the usual framework of Professor and research students. also a lack of local clients, meaning the industry or businesses, who have tended to just want a solution without R&D investment, and lack knowledge of how to manage R&D risk.

But all this has been gradually changing, but mostly due to the determination of these overseas trained Professors, industry and business - with some Government initiatives, but only when the senior level decision makers and policy setters are not politicians, such as nation level research institute directors who have themselves had overseas exposure.

But yes, Thailand has and does depend on foreign expertese at so many levels, they just sometimes have a problem really accepting that.

We don't need the Thai nominee route to be successful with technology transfer - overseas business can benefit from local markets by strategic partnerships, locked in with IP licensing agreements. One route is to establish small businesses with a University Professor who has been trained overseas, provide them with marketing support, and you have a grateful new business owner who is then pulled out of the dire situation of no R&D funding.

Most of the overseas Phd's remain overseas and those that dont understand the value of competition

[Thai at Heart]

Many Thais have bank accounts overseas, own houses, businesses etc but extend the same considerations to foreigners here, absolutely not can't have any of Thailand in the hands of mere foreigners.

Please give us your money but don't expect too much, if anything, in return.

So who is the smart country and who is the mug?

Short term you could say that but not long term you cannot. Anyway, if this clampdown was to happen for real how can it be smart to effectively close the door on foreign investment because it would. I think it is the policy of a dumbass who cannot see past the end of their xenophobic nose...

I'm pretty sure that if one brings in 30 million baht or more to invest, then special BOI (Board of Investment) rules apply, which are night & day as compared to somebody investing 4 million in a bar = they aren't going after any of the bigger players.

It is still interesting to see them constantly moving the goal posts around though.

There are several high profile companies in restricted industries using nominees to skirt these restrictions. Fortunately, they are mainly on the yellow side so are relatively secure. But, of course, CP doesn't want anyone one it's patch so, tesco is always in the firing line for re-education.

[jmccarty]

So long as they don't crack down on african barn swallow farming, I should be ok!

[Shaunduhpostman]

Wow, a 0.0021% non compliance rate is very good.

I doubt there's another country anywhere in the world that can claim a 99.9979% complaince with all the rules and regulations.

But the generally low level of numeracy (such as needing a calculator to add single digit numbers) would preclude any grasp of what the difference between 13 out of 6000 and say 13 out of 100 is.

[mikemac]

Only 13 firms out of 6000? They obviously did not look hard, thus is this really a crackdown?

A quick read says it all...

Selective... there are instances where they wish to turn a blind eye, that's why this this purge is is a none starter just like the others, just rattling the rusty sabre again

Wonder what Thailand would say if other countries imposed the same restrictions on foreigners (Thai's) ownership of companies and land? possible something that the British government must be considering after SSI...

To be honest I am surprised this topic has attracted this much attention, it is about a crackdown after all. Busting 13 companies out of 6000 sounds about right.

This one will be forgotten soon and replaced by another equally inane and useless boot stamping.

For those with a decent memory, it was much the same under previous governments, even the "democratically elected" ones.

[laocowboy2]

And they wonder why FDI is by-passing Thailand and going to other Asean countries? And why GDP growth is flat-lining? The word is out - Thailand is a great place to visit but invest elsewhere.

[jpb1963]

what is FDI?

[laocowboy2]

Only 13 firms out of 6000? They obviously did not look hard, thus is this really a crackdown?

A quick read says it all...

Selective... there are instances where they wish to turn a blind eye, that's why this this purge is is a none starter just like the others, just rattling the rusty sabre again

Wonder what Thailand would say if other countries imposed the same restrictions on foreigners (Thai's) ownership of companies and land? possible something that the British government must be considering after SSI...

SSI not a great illustration. In this case the men at SSI bought a mothballed blast furnace from another foreign investor (Tata Stee) in 2011, spent a shed-load of money starting it up gain and while the (borrowed from Thai banks) cash lasted, employed a lot of previously non-employed people and bought a lot of inputs from local suppliers. Admittedly the jobs did not last (and there are some unpaid suppliers towards the end) but the net effect was a transfer of cash from Thailand to the UK - with the Thai side not left with much to show for it

Edited October 12, 2015 by laocowboy2

[laocowboy2]

what is FDI?

Foreign Direct Investment = investment in 'real' assets such as real estate or a factory rather than investment in purely financial assets.

[dru2]

what is FDI?

Foreign Direct Investment

[williamgeorgeallen]

the thai mum from my 2 kids owns my business. hope they are not going to crack down on her. then again how would they?