Rant about driving in Thailand

[Ghostnigel]

yep way to dangerous best go back to your "home" country

....and if you come back, bring me some PG Tips teabags please mate??!!

[tolsti]

Never mind... You'll be able to say what hell you have gone though on your clickbait blog.

[CLW]

If you're driving here by yourself, don't rely on the "normal" behaviour you would expect in western countries. Waiting at red lights, junctions, set the turn indicator etc. Once you acknowledge that, driving here is fine except Bangkok due to traffic

[yacobm8]

Never mind... You'll be able to say what hell you have gone though on your clickbait blog.

I don't have a blog, I make websites for small businesses

[NoshowJones]

every time you drive you have to be aware that thais do not look in their mirror to see whats happening behind them, they do not give way, they do not use indicators, red lights and stop signs just mean go faster, they believe if they pull over to your side of the road to overtake or to avoid a puddle of water you have to pull off the road or stop for them, that they can turn left across the front of you car while you are moving forwards and that you will stop and let them do it, that overtaking on blind corners with double lines is ok and that anyone coming on the other side will drive into the trees so they dont crash,they can simply pull out from a corner or the kerb without looking to see if there is a car coming, that they have the right to do whatever they want and everyone else has to let them, that having a bigger/more expensive vehicle means they have the right of way, motor bikes have right of way all the time, they can stop in the middle of the lane to go into a shop or talk to their friends, they think flashing their headlights at you means you have to get off the road for them so they dont have to slow down, that everytime they drive they have to beat everyone else to the place they are going to show that they have a bigger dick and that none of them even have a clue as to who goes first at a cross road intersection. Maybe if they actually had to learn to drive on the streets and also to get a licence they would improve, understanding the road rules as well and having a licence would also help, then of course if all the riders/drivers were old enough to even have a licence wouldnt go astray either

What he said.

I know that some people like to assimilate and start to drive like many of the locals, I personally do not do this, tailgating for example, is dangerous and if you are willing to put your life and that of your family in danger just to assimilate, then be my guest, I will not endanger my family just to fit in.

I know we cannot change the way that many of them drive, but that does not make it ok, their sheer stupidity and inability to control a vehicle in a safe manner is reflected in the road death toll. Fact is, they must be happy with the way it is, or they would change it.

The true character of people is shown when they get behind the wheel of a car, and all the fake deference and niceties go out of the window. Basically Thais are culturally oppressed and are not allowed to express their true feelings, I think this shows once they become anonymous behind the wheel of a car with blacked out windows.

Many of the issues on roads are simply down to a lack of consideration for anyone else, the reality is that many people lack empathy and don't care a damn if they endanger other peoples lives or inconvenience them by blocking 50% of the road to buy noodles because they couldn't be arsed to park 5 metres up the road and walk.

The poor/dangerous driving is definitely one of the downsides of living in Thailand.

I could not have put this better myself, you must have been reading some of my posts on this topic.

[NoshowJones]

I have never had a problem in 30 years here in Thailand. I do however remember my defensive driving courses I took in the Middle East and now I just expect people to do crazy things. Maybe that is the reason I have, touch wood, not had a problem.

Yes, I agree with you entirely, I could say the same thing myself, you can be safe if you use real common sense.

[NoshowJones]

Thais drive like everyone else in the third world, like there is no tomorrow.

That's one of the reasons Thailand will never come out of the third world.

[NoshowJones]

Heading back to Pattaya on Highway 3 on Sunday, I passed a couple of motorbikes. The rider of the second one had his right foot resting on the rear mudguard of the other bike! I have it on camera somewhere.

Then last year, I was driving to Koh Chang when I became aware of an idiot minivan driver behind me. At the time, I was in a long line of vehicles overtaking other vehicles. As soon as it was safe to do so. I indicated to pull into the inside lane as I didn't want that ****hole behind me any longer than necessary. It was just as well that I checked my side mirror before making the move as he I saw him about to overtake me on the inside. He quickly pulled back in behind me and I was able to let him overtake safely.

Alan

If someone is tailgating me I put on my hazard lights and slowdown gradually, if they then manage to overtake me then good, if they can't and are forced to slow down, then tough.

[NoshowJones]

Anyone noticed that many drivers here won't wind down their window at a toll booth and open the entire door instead? Or won't keep their wipers on in the rain and instead opt for switching on the wipers once every so often because it's got to the point where they can't see out of the windscreen? I guess driving without headlights at night might also fit into this silly behaviour.... What are they trying to do, save electricity?

No, if they are Thai, they think they are saving fuel. Thai mentality, third world country.

[misterphil]

Yesterday you were telling us that it costs you 8,000 baht a month to live here. Today your telling us you go on bus trips around the country, and you take your GF and her friend. Who pays for your GF's friends bus ticket? Im assuming your GF.

You still dont have any insurance so lets not hope your involved in a road traffic accident.

[konying]

You said " when you apply Western logic and driving skills, you end up in an accident"

You then said "once you start to behave like locals, all problems go away"

My Western style defensive driving has kept me accident free so far in 12 years. On the contrary, in my small village, at least 1 "local" gets themselves killed on the road each month..

Funniest comment all week still

In your village ? Try living in civilised area's and once again develop basic English skills, but if you still struggling , happy to explain for you.

Now more to the point, if for 1 minute accepting the feces out of your mouth, that would mean your village is emty as according to you at least 1 dies each month, so after 12 years you will be one lonely troll living among abandoned houses .

Is that correct ? Or you like to feed more bs?

Re Basic english skills: Such as spelling?: "feces" (oh, sorry, you must be an American) "emty". Or is that just keyboard rage getting it's grip on you?

And you do seem to say that if you drive like the Thai you will be OK. But isn't it their driving habits, perpetrated upon each other, that is doing all the killing?

You may have survived thus far but, like the cigarette smoker who hasn't yet got lung cancer, is doesn't mean that your strategy is the best one.

Drive like the Thai, die like the Thai?

What a load of drivel

You bring your Non American driving skills and cannot wait for a thread asking for help

Thankfully, google is still free, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/feces

Wise to do some checking before spouting drivel, but then again you may not be capable of anything else

Edited October 14, 2015 by konying

[khunPer]

»p.s I see Thailand is No 4 for total deaths per 100,000 people due to car accidents according to wikipedia.«

Data must be out of up-date, as Thailand has been No, 2 for some years:

Death rate per 100,000 population from road crashes:

1. Namibia 45

2. Thailand 44

3. Iran 38

However this year they suddenly improved a lot and jumped down to No. 3:

1. Libya 48.4

2. Irag 40.5

3. Thailand 38.1

(Source: National News Bureau of Thailand 9th September 2015, statistics by WHO.)

Up to number one next week pop pickers, not arf.

Isn't it the case that Thai RTA fatality stats are only counted where there is a death at the scene? Wonder how many people croak either after they've been carted off to hospital or en-route in the super-duper 'protectung' picks-up that scoop up the injured - must be a fair few?

What gets me about driving in LOS is that you have to drive with a very large 'situational awareness' bubble around you - much bigger than in the West. I Imagine it's closer to how jet fighter pilots need to operate.

Yes you have to look out for people cutting in to your lane etc., but to survive long term, you need to be thinking about 2-3 seconds from now, what is the car/motorcycle/pedestrian in front or behind me going to do?

E.g. will they swerve to avoid a pothole, gun through a red light on their side, make an emergency stop at the somtam stall just ahead? etc. There will be no pre-planning on their part, so you always have to be ready.

From what I have heard – I attended a short period in a local road safety group – the authorities a few years back changed the way to count fatalities in their stats, so only “dead on the spot” is counted; that was said to have lowered the number of fatalities in the traffic. I’m unsure of how much, as the saying in the road safety group sounded unrealistic high; i.e. lower fatalities, they talked about 10-fold – I cannot judge, but the saying is that Koh Samui, where I stay, is considered worst-of-all...

About a year ago (October 2014) The Nation had an article about road accidents and fatalities. Here was mentioned two different numbers for fatalities for 2011: Police said 9,910 and Public Health Ministry counted 14,033. The Nation stated source as: Road Safety Directing Centre and National Police Office.

Furthermore the included graphics informed that 7.8 percent of accidents in 2011 was due to drunk driving; up from 2 percent in 1999 where the statistics started – however I think that rise may dependant of, if they checked the drivers. Back when Samui Island’s local newspaper reported the monthly statistics from the local police, the number of intoxicated drivers was stated in levels as 80-85 percent, and the number of foreigners involved in accidents around 15 percent (it’s a holiday destination and may be atypical).

Various types of accidents were in The Nation’s 2011-graphics shown as:

39.2% motorcyclists;

25.0% passenger cars;

16.7% pickups;

4.4% trucks;

3.6% taxis;

3.0% pedestrians;

2.1% busses;

1.8% vans;

1.3% bicycles;

0.9% motorized tricycles (believe that includes tuk-tuks);

2.0% others.

That motorbike are the most dangerous way of road transportation I think we know, but I was surprised that passenger cars came above pickups and vans, the latter down at 1.8% only.

I fully agree with the comments about “situational awareness bubble”, which is also my experience after more than 10-years survival in Thai traffic – I’m beginning to understand some of the Thai way of traffic-thinking (or lack of same), but not more than I almost daily still get surprised over folks, mainly on motorbikes, that don’t seem to care about dying in the traffic; and where I live that also sometimes includes foreigners...

[balo]

Just don't buy a bike , most of the deadly accidents involve bikes. That's why I only drive a car in Thailand. And I am the driver , I wouldnt trust any local to drive my car.

Every time I drive to Bangkok from Pattaya . I see accidents on the roads, some of them looks really nasty.

Just happy I've never been involved in any accidents here.

[duckmandon]

Statistics show that 87 people die at the scene of a motor vehicle accident every day in Thailand. That figure doesn't show the people who die later in or on the way to hospital from complications of the accident. A total overhaul of the driving system is required here. As you stated in your post van & bus drivers are the worst on the roads as only money counts, but they fail to realize that if they die on the road then there is no more. Thai thinking is the main cause & comments made by higher authorities like " dont wear your helmet when in southern Thailand cause we want to see you face". If the Police Farce did their job then maybe things would change. Just a week ago the head of Police discontinued the roadside checkpoints, so now we hardly even see a cop on the roads. It will get worse.

The Thai government does not think it's an issue otherwise they would have done something earlier. The cost not only financially but emotionally would be horrendous to lose that amount of people everyday. Sad but fact.

[Jonathon]

A justifiable rant. I could add "kids being allowed to drive motorcycles", "failure to comply with the basic rule of the road" and "failure to comply with pedestrian crossings" to your list.

I avoid using minivans or taxis out of town or when / where they are able to get up to speed. Most of the drivers are not fit to be allowed out.

I guess a good proportion of m/c drivers are unlicensed too, but provide a good source of income for the police every month end.

One issue here is that the attitude of "it's never going to happen to me" is perhaps more prevalent here, particularly when invincibility has been guaranteed by getting a monk to bless the vehicle.

Unless and until traffic laws are enforced with severe penalties such as driving bans (enforced of course), jail time and, ultimately, confiscation of the vehicle it will not change.

[Ace of Pop]

Rant all you like,nothing will change.

[Johnnyngai]

It is call third world driving.

[khunPer]

Statistics show that 87 people die at the scene of a motor vehicle accident every day in Thailand. That figure doesn't show the people who die later in or on the way to hospital from complications of the accident. A total overhaul of the driving system is required here. As you stated in your post van & bus drivers are the worst on the roads as only money counts, but they fail to realize that if they die on the road then there is no more. Thai thinking is the main cause & comments made by higher authorities like " dont wear your helmet when in southern Thailand cause we want to see you face". If the Police Farce did their job then maybe things would change. Just a week ago the head of Police discontinued the roadside checkpoints, so now we hardly even see a cop on the roads. It will get worse.

The Thai government does not think it's an issue otherwise they would have done something earlier. The cost not only financially but emotionally would be horrendous to lose that amount of people everyday. Sad but fact.

»Statistics show that 87 people die at the scene of a motor vehicle accident every day in Thailand. That figure doesn't show the people who die later in or on the way to hospital from complications of the accident.«

It may be very true that 87 people die every day in traffic accidents, but from where do you have these facts...?

According to Police stats that shall be around 27 people (10,000/365), whilst Public Health Ministry counts about 38 (14,000/365).

See my post #103 - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/862496-rant-about-driving-in-thailand/page-5#entry9966089 - for sources and details.

If you have some reliable facts or stats you refer to, I will be glad if you will share them, as I look for that kind of information...

Edit: Hmm; If I take the WHO figures of 38 annual death in traffic accidents per 100,000 population, and World Bank population stat of 67 million, i.e. 38 x 670 / 365 = 70 death a day in traffic.

An older figure could be 44 x 650 / 365 = 78.

Something don’t match up with various sources...

Edited October 15, 2015 by khunPer

[yacobm8]

Yesterday you were telling us that it costs you 8,000 baht a month to live here. Today your telling us you go on bus trips around the country, and you take your GF and her friend. Who pays for your GF's friends bus ticket? Im assuming your GF.

You still dont have any insurance so lets not hope your involved in a road traffic accident.

I said that was my bills and went on to say that's not all my costs for a month of living here in Thailand. I mentioned what it cost for a Laos visa run in that post including travel etc. I've been on coach journeys around the country because I was extending my visa in Chiang Mai and I live in Ubon Rachathani. I pay for my gf because I need her to babysit me with directions to everywhere but her friend I don't pay for neither does my gf.

After reading through this forum I have been looking into insurance, looked at bupa yesterday quickly on my phone but need more time to read through everything over the next month

[khunPer]

Statistics show that 87 people die at the scene of a motor vehicle accident every day in Thailand. That figure doesn't show the people who die later in or on the way to hospital from complications of the accident. A total overhaul of the driving system is required here. As you stated in your post van & bus drivers are the worst on the roads as only money counts, but they fail to realize that if they die on the road then there is no more. Thai thinking is the main cause & comments made by higher authorities like " dont wear your helmet when in southern Thailand cause we want to see you face". If the Police Farce did their job then maybe things would change. Just a week ago the head of Police discontinued the roadside checkpoints, so now we hardly even see a cop on the roads. It will get worse.

The Thai government does not think it's an issue otherwise they would have done something earlier. The cost not only financially but emotionally would be horrendous to lose that amount of people everyday. Sad but fact.

»Statistics show that 87 people die at the scene of a motor vehicle accident every day in Thailand. That figure doesn't show the people who die later in or on the way to hospital from complications of the accident.«

It may be very true that 87 people die every day in traffic accidents, but from where do you have these facts...?

According to Police stats that shall be around 27 people (10,000/365), whilst Public Health Ministry counts about 38 (14,000/365).

See my post #103 - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/862496-rant-about-driving-in-thailand/page-5#entry9966089 - for sources and details.

If you have some reliable facts or stats you refer to, I will be glad if you will share them, as I look for that kind of information...

Edit: Hmm; If I take the WHO figures of 38 annual death in traffic accidents per 100,000 population, and World Bank population stat of 67 million, i.e. 38 x 670 / 365 = 70 death a day in traffic.

An older figure could be 44 x 650 / 365 = 78.

Something don’t match up with various sources...

Some update in todays news (21st Oct. 2015):

Thailand's roads second deadliest in the world: World Health Organization

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2015/10/21/thailands-roads-second-deadliest-world-world-health-organization

»According to the 2015 Global Status Report of Road Safety by the World Health Organization (WHO), 14,059 people were killed in Thailand by road accidents in 2012 which is about 36.2 people per per 100,000 -- the second highest rate in the world.

To put that in perspective, that’s about 39 people per day who die on our country’s treacherous roads.«

(sic.)

Edit:

Edited October 21, 2015 by khunPer

[Jonathon]

If you're driving here by yourself, don't rely on the "normal" behaviour you would expect in western countries. Waiting at red lights, junctions, set the turn indicator etc. Once you acknowledge that, driving here is fine except Bangkok due to traffic

Bangkok is fine because of the traffic: it prevents suicidal drivers getting up to their usual breakneck speed for much of the time.

A couple of other things I might add to my previous comment are:

- Thai drivers often look no further ahead than the vehicle in front

-They seem totally unable to anticipate a changing situation. A good illustration is m/c riders turning into a side road. Of course they never give way to pedestrians already crossing the road but always choose to pass in front of them rather than behind.

[Paxton]

Okay so I will add the driving stupidity to this thread as I experience it and this weeks highlights were.....

I am sitting at my favourite street resto on Ramkhamhaeng road and although dinner takes about 45 minutes, I managed to spot at least 6 cars driving without headlights on (this is at about 21:30, btw). Is this some type of cultural thing or are they as possum1931 suggested, trying to save fuel? I just don't get it.

Also, an oldish guy on a bicycle runs into the front of my car and practially kisses the windscreen as I am pulling out of 7/11. This guy managed to scratch the bumper and not only remove the registration plate (with either his leg or bike) but it ended up in the middle of the road. He was of course riding his bike on the road and against the traffic and managed to appear right in front of me in between me doing a last check for traffic and actually taking off. In a normal country, there is no great need to check in front of you once again before taking off but here there clearly is. There is always a good chance that some idiot is riding or driving against the traffic and doesn't for a second suspect that you might be pulling out even though it looks like you are and anyone with half a brain cell can see that this is the case. The guy was okay btw, just a bit shaken (we both were) and had a few scratches on him. His bike on the other hand.....

[Robert24]

If you're driving here by yourself, don't rely on the "normal" behaviour you would expect in western countries. Waiting at red lights, junctions, set the turn indicator etc. Once you acknowledge that, driving here is fine except Bangkok due to traffic

Bangkok is fine because of the traffic: it prevents suicidal drivers getting up to their usual breakneck speed for much of the time.

A couple of other things I might add to my previous comment are:

- Thai drivers often look no further ahead than the vehicle in front

-They seem totally unable to anticipate a changing situation. A good illustration is m/c riders turning into a side road. Of course they never give way to pedestrians already crossing the road but always choose to pass in front of them rather than behind.

actually Bangkok traffic is dangerous too. Plenty of fatal accidents in the capital despite the traffic situation.

[JaseTheBass]

actually Bangkok traffic is dangerous too. Plenty of fatal accidents in the capital despite the traffic situation.

Thais could manage to have a fatal accident on a deserted sand bar.

[cooked]

You said " when you apply Western logic and driving skills, you end up in an accident"

You then said "once you start to behave like locals, all problems go away"

My Western style defensive driving has kept me accident free so far in 12 years. On the contrary, in my small village, at least 1 "local" gets themselves killed on the road each month..

Funniest comment all week still

In your village ? Try living in civilised area's and once again develop basic English skills, but if you still struggling , happy to explain for you.

Now more to the point, if for 1 minute accepting the feces out of your mouth, that would mean your village is emty as according to you at least 1 dies each month, so after 12 years you will be one lonely troll living among abandoned houses .

Is that correct ? Or you like to feed more bs?

Re Basic english skills: Such as spelling?: "feces" (oh, sorry, you must be an American) "emty". Or is that just keyboard rage getting it's grip on you?

And you do seem to say that if you drive like the Thai you will be OK. But isn't it their driving habits, perpetrated upon each other, that is doing all the killing?

You may have survived thus far but, like the cigarette smoker who hasn't yet got lung cancer, is doesn't mean that your strategy is the best one.

Drive like the Thai, die like the Thai?

I blocked this guy long ago.

[WarpSpeed]

If you're driving here by yourself, don't rely on the "normal" behaviour you would expect in western countries. Waiting at red lights, junctions, set the turn indicator etc. Once you acknowledge that, driving here is fine except Bangkok due to traffic

Bangkok is fine because of the traffic: it prevents suicidal drivers getting up to their usual breakneck speed for much of the time.

A couple of other things I might add to my previous comment are:

- Thai drivers often look no further ahead than the vehicle in front

-They seem totally unable to anticipate a changing situation. A good illustration is m/c riders turning into a side road. Of course they never give way to pedestrians already crossing the road but always choose to pass in front of them rather than behind.

Agree with this, haven't been following this thread it's all familiar and redundant but has anyone mentioned driving scooters traveling against the flow of traffic mostly on the sidewalks or one way roads?