British grandfather facing 360 lashes in Saudi Arabia for making wine

[Humphrey Bear]

British ...

... making wine.

This information seems to me very strange.

The Germans package grape juice (Rausch is the most popular) which does not have inhibitors against fermentation in it.

One buys a box or several, boils some with sugar, let's it cool, add yeast and the rest of the juice, puts it into large sealed containers with 'bubblers' to let out the gasses produced and around ten days later bottles the stuff. I have not put in quantities as I would not want to corrupt tender young minds on this forum.

You may get a red flag - like this:

[Naam]

sorry Humph but the famous "German" juice manufacturer "Rauch" is Austrian and so is/was "Pfanner". both their products are still availbale all over the Middle East.

[oncearugge]

British ...

... making wine.

This information seems to me very strange.

Western compounds in Saudi are awash with home brewed wine, beer and a vicious distilled Spirit which goes by the name of Sddiqi or Sid.

It is only when this stuff is transported outside the compounds that problems are likely to be experienced.

This man is not the first and will not be the last caught breaking the law in Saudi.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1096880.stm

[Naam]

Not all the Saudi princes. Remember that King Saud had 27 sons (I think - I may be one or two out) and they have each had several sons. (Daughters aren't counted in this).

I recall in my early days in Saudi that one of the sons, who was a senior minister at the time, had to go to the US for a conference. In his hotel room was a TV set. He had not seen TV, as it was not allowed in Saudi until around 1990, as I recall. So he switched it on to see what all the fuss was about and was horrified to see unveiled women presenting and acting in shows. Also adverts showing people drinking alcohol. He cancelled his visit, flew home and reported to his brother the King (Fuad or Khaled, can't remember) that the US was Satan's Kingdom. This was about the time Raytheon were thrown out of Saudi, maybe an unrelated incident.

please have mercy Humph! when i arrived in Saudi Arabia in 1974 a Saudi channel existed which broadcasted news, religious bla-bla, masri and lebnani soap operas, the bionic woman, the six million dollar man, a western series and every thursday evening a Bollywood film.

these kind of ridiculous fairy tales don't die of course. the same applies to Raytheon (one of my company's top clients) which is firmly established in Saudi Arabia since end of 1969 and was never thrown out. Raytheon is one of the pillars of the Saudi air defense system!

Raytheon has a long-standing relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, beginning more than 45 years ago with their purchase and fielding of Hawk, Raytheon’s combat-proven, medium-range air defense system.

http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/patriot/saudi/

[Naam]

on the lighter side

The Germans package grape juice (Rausch is the most popular)

the German word "Rausch" means intoxication.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[MiKT]

Just bear in mind that many Saudis would be quite happy if they could drink in their own country.

It is the ruling family that forbid it and enforce it with madmen because they are desperate to control every aspect of their citizens' lives.

So don't be so hard on all of them.

I saw one in Pattaya at the magic roundabout in Ramadhan and these two Indonesian muslim fellers came up to him and started berating him for drinking.

He very calmly, and politely, in English, explained to them that his relationship with his God was none of their business and that they should go and harass someone interested, which they did.

Then he carried on getting blitzed.

Subsequently transpired that he was Western educated of course.

I also watched another Saudi with a wicked sense of humour serenade some of his countrymen in a Gulf Bar. It was Karaoke with the band night, and he taught them the chords then belted it out, much to our amusement and their confusion. The song?

Thanks for that, very amusing.

[MiKT]

Well, ironically (more than deliberately, I dare say), the UK government has just cancelled a prison officer training agreement with the Saudis.

Probably a good thing; training UK prison officers to administer lashes and cut-off hands is a little passe in this day and age....... Although thinking about it, it would probably be quite appropriate for some of the advocates of shiria law currenty in UK prisons.

[MiKT]

Money money money, its a rich mans world.

Isn't there a TVF rule against quoting Abba? If not, there should be.

Yes and offenders should be stoned

Surly they must be.

[Humphrey Bear]

please have mercy Humph! when i arrived in Saudi Arabia in 1974 a Saudi channel existed which broadcasted news, religious bla-bla, masri and lebnani soap operas, the bionic woman, the six million dollar man, a western series and every thursday evening a Bollywood film.

these kind of ridiculous fairy tales don't die of course. the same applies to Raytheon (one of my company's top clients) which is firmly established in Saudi Arabia since end of 1969 and was never thrown out. Raytheon is one of the pillars of the Saudi air defense system!

I arrived in Saudi for the first time in early 1979 - after fleeing Iran at roughly the same time as the Shah. We were in Tabuk, where we had a cinema on our compound, but no TV. My second tour was in the early 1990s, when I was based in Khobar whilst working on an upgrade to the East-West pipeline - I was housed in an apartment belonging to our client, again without TV. Evidently there was TV available, but nothing worth watching - as with most TV. I had, between these postings, been in Libya, where our compound had an internal cable network for TV, and Hong Kong, where I had TV in my apartment.

With regard to Raytheon, I may have been misled, but I am sure that in my latter days in Tabuk (I left the day Anwar Sadat was assassinated) the BAe guys told me that they were in trouble - as were Westinghouse. But then so was Lockheed for a time, and in Iran we were all deep in it.

[chuckd]

When I was in Saudi and responsible for my employee's actions, I stopped drinking all together. My job entailed working with the local police to get any of my employees out of the monkey house and if I smelled of siddiqi myself, it was not a glowing endorsement of my intentions.

Having said that, one Thursday night I went to a Saudi contractor's house in Riyadh for a party. I arrived around 20.00 hours and was greeted around his swimming pool with some of his Saudi friends and several bottles of Johnny Walker Black. I stayed and had some drinks, enjoying the conversation.

Around 03.00 Friday morning I excused myself to go to the restroom and, when I returned to the party, there was a Saudi police Colonel and Lt. Colonel standing in the middle of the room. Didn't know whether to keep entering the room or run for the bathroom when the host introduced me to them. To make a long story shorter, they joined the party and the JW Black kept being poured.

Around 06.00 the party was breaking up and the two police officers asked if I was OK to drive and, not being blitzed, I said I could drive. They then said they would follow me home to make certain there were no problems with any other police should I be stopped.

They followed me to my front door, we shook hands and they left...never to be seen again.

Saudis go crazy in Bahrain, Thailand and sometimes on the airplanes leaving Bahrain.

I have also had employees that did what this Brit is accused of doing in making and selling siddiqi.. I always told them if they were caught with it outside the compound there was little I could do to get them released. Luckily it never happened to one of mine.

I also had friend in Jeddah that was caught driving a government vehicle out of a government warehouse with a 55 gallon barrel of hootch. He was sentenced to lashes and two years in prison. He served six months and the King released him along with many other Westerners without any lashes.

PS: I arrived in Yanbu in 1981 and we had local TV. One English channel showing outdated movies and TV series out of the US. That's where I saw the classic movie, "The Attack of the Killer Tomatoes". It became our regular Thanksgiving day showing in place of American football.

[thaibeachlovers]

please have mercy Humph! when i arrived in Saudi Arabia in 1974 a Saudi channel existed which broadcasted news, religious bla-bla, masri and lebnani soap operas, the bionic woman, the six million dollar man, a western series and every thursday evening a Bollywood film.

these kind of ridiculous fairy tales don't die of course. the same applies to Raytheon (one of my company's top clients) which is firmly established in Saudi Arabia since end of 1969 and was never thrown out. Raytheon is one of the pillars of the Saudi air defense system!

I arrived in Saudi for the first time in early 1979 - after fleeing Iran at roughly the same time as the Shah. We were in Tabuk, where we had a cinema on our compound, but no TV. My second tour was in the early 1990s, when I was based in Khobar whilst working on an upgrade to the East-West pipeline - I was housed in an apartment belonging to our client, again without TV. Evidently there was TV available, but nothing worth watching - as with most TV. I had, between these postings, been in Libya, where our compound had an internal cable network for TV, and Hong Kong, where I had TV in my apartment.

With regard to Raytheon, I may have been misled, but I am sure that in my latter days in Tabuk (I left the day Anwar Sadat was assassinated) the BAe guys told me that they were in trouble - as were Westinghouse. But then so was Lockheed for a time, and in Iran we were all deep in it.

In 92 they had tv in all the patient rooms in Riyadh hospital, showing lots of Egyptian soaps that always involved women getting beaten by men.The men's building had recorded tv programs for the first year I was there ( I got to see Twin Peaks again ), and then they got a satellite dish, but it had to be hidden from the mutawa.

Not much on it for westerners, just BBC, and V ( used to be MTV, but that got banned as being too sexual ).

Most bizarre programme was the one where they showed little girls ( uncovered ) playing for a long time.

At prayer time they cut into all the channels to show Mecca.

When the president of the US was inaugurated and the female singer was on, they ( Saudi tv ) only showed her back from a very long way off and no sound. BBC showed her up close and with sound. Quite mind boggling cutting back and forth between the two channels.

[Naam]

In 92 they had tv in all the patient rooms in Riyadh hospital, showing lots of Egyptian soaps that always involved women getting beaten by men.The men's building had recorded tv programs for the first year I was there ( I got to see Twin Peaks again ), and then they got a satellite dish, but it had to be hidden from the mutawa.

Not much on it for westerners, just BBC, and V ( used to be MTV, but that got banned as being too sexual ).

Most bizarre programme was the one where they showed little girls ( uncovered ) playing for a long time.

At prayer time they cut into all the channels to show Mecca.

When the president of the US was inaugurated and the female singer was on, they ( Saudi tv ) only showed her back from a very long way off and no sound. BBC showed her up close and with sound. Quite mind boggling cutting back and forth between the two channels.

was it the proverbial fat lady who was singing? perhaps the reason for showing only her back because she was ugly?

[h90]

Note to self: Respect culture and rules while a guest in another country.

If it is still: You must sign on the visa that there is the death penalty on drugs and alcohol is a drug.

Thailand/Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia is also harsh on harmless drugs.

Your last line does not make sense. Guess your opinion of harshness for so called harmless drugs is a lot different to most civilised people.

Marijuana is less dangerous than alcohol....Even if you disagree it is not that much more dangerous to get these harsh punishment.

[chickenslegs]

Money money money, its a rich mans world.

Isn't there a TVF rule against quoting Abba? If not, there should be.

I agree.

I do, I do, I do, I do, I do.

[Neurath]

Note to self: Respect culture and rules while a guest in another country.

You should you are 100% correct.

However, for someone who is not a muslim and does not recognise (or fully understand) their laws this seems ridiculously brutal for making some wine.

Ok, he deserved to be punished but 14 months inside and now 350 lashes is absolutely barbaric and in my opinion has no place in the modern world.

I hope he is released and allowed to go home safely to his family..

Yeah, it's surely pretty brutal - not as brutal as being executed by firing squad after more than a decade behind bars though. I suppose there is time enough and room enough for that too. I must speak to my Indonesian friends about this.

[thaibeachlovers]

Note to self: Respect culture and rules while a guest in another country.

You should you are 100% correct.

However, for someone who is not a muslim and does not recognise (or fully understand) their laws this seems ridiculously brutal for making some wine.

Ok, he deserved to be punished but 14 months inside and now 350 lashes is absolutely barbaric and in my opinion has no place in the modern world.

I hope he is released and allowed to go home safely to his family..

No way anyone been there as long as the guy doesn't understand the law as related to alcohol. Just don't.

[MAJIC]

This man has brought this problem onto his own head.

Allegedly he has lived/worked in Saudi for 25 years so he should know what the "rules" are.

The Saudis are remarkably tolerant of Western lifestyles as long as it is kept within the gated compounds where most expats live.

By transporting alcohol he knowingly broke Saudi Law.

360 lashes! the punishment doesn't fit the crime,even a young man would be hard pressed to survive this Barbaric sentence!

[Humphrey Bear]

This man has brought this problem onto his own head.

Allegedly he has lived/worked in Saudi for 25 years so he should know what the "rules" are.

The Saudis are remarkably tolerant of Western lifestyles as long as it is kept within the gated compounds where most expats live.

By transporting alcohol he knowingly broke Saudi Law.

360 lashes! the punishment doesn't fit the crime,even a young man would be hard pressed to survive this Barbaric sentence!

The lashes will not be administered in one session. Usually they will be given in batches of 10 or 20 at a time with a week or more in between to recover. After Friday noon-day prayers is the usual flogging hour.

Also, the flogging may be administered in a hard way or in a more benign manner - depends on the guy doing the flogging, the local mullah and the supervising police authority. I have seen some strokes given that wouldn't have left even a red mark, others that made the punishee jump involuntarily to the full extent of the rope holding his arms.

The old man had obviously been pushing his luck and had not heeded warnings that would have been given to him by his Saudi sponsor. These things do not happen 'out of the blue', there are almost always discussions and coded warnings sent out long before action is taken.