Rice Farming

[RamdomChances]

No I'm not about to give it a try, but thought as it is one of the major crops here in Thailand we could have a thread on it, so come on all you rice experts. How is it actually grown, whats the growing time, what sort of ammounts do you get per rai and some rough ideas on how profitable it actually is.

[chownah]

There are two basic different types of rice grown in Thailand...kou chou which is what you cook to get kou suai...and kou gniew which is what you cook to get kou gniew.

There is also a purple-blue rice called kou dam in central Thailand and kou gam in the north. It is used for making kanohm (sweet snacks).

Fragrant rice (jasmine rice) is one kind of kou chou.

We should probably try to agree on some standard spelling for these things I guess and I'm not sure my spellings are the best....or maybe not....just a thought.

Chownah

[RamdomChances]

^Ok go on then how do you grow the stuff, lets start with jasmine.

I've never been a big fan of trying to standerdise spellings, in any language really

[chownah]

In the north we have a type of kou hom mali (the Thai name for jasmine rice) we grow but not alot since it gets diseased easily up here...I don't know why yet. For kou hom mali rice we should get someone from Isaan to tell us how to do it since that's where most of it is grown.

Up here we raise it just like all the other kou chou!!!!

Chownah

[chownah]

Did you know that rice has a hollow stem and it is through this hollow stem that the roots get their air supply and that's the reason why rice can grow with its roots submerged?

Chownah

Edited October 2, 2006 by chownah

[Maizefarmer]

Hers another question:

Whyis it the Chinese and the Japanese are able to grow varities of rice that produce 4 or 5 times the amount of rice per unit of land than is grown in Thailand?

Thailand is even at its low production rates a world supplier of rice - if it utilised the land for production levels that are achieved in China and Japan, the average Thai rice farmer would be well on his way to digging himself out of the poverty hole he is in.

Anyone have some insight into this conumdrim - I cant understand how/why the Chinese and the Japs have over come the problems but the Thai's have not.

Tim

[RamdomChances]

Yea I seem to remember reading something like that. Is it that possibly they calculate the average over the whole area cultivated ? I also seem to remember that most of the rice land in thailand is not irrigated, relying on seasonal rainfall

[chownah]

Interesting question. The Japanese used to have a competition every year to see who could get the highest yield....it was a big deal amongst a certain group of farmers from what I can gather. I think they no longer do it but I stumbled across a link that talked about their methods and yields. Of course the methods used for the competition could not be practically applied to the general farming situation but it interested me in that it gave me some clues as to how to improve on the yields here since I do believe that Thai farming practices can be improved on....but of course I could be wrong...my wife is certainly sceptical but is willing to go along with my ideas to a certain extent and in a limited way....she is the rice farmer now and I'm a worker and observer...the final decision is up to her and she likes to do it the way everyone else in the neighborhood does it....

Anyway the things that seemed to be common to the rice growers who got the top yields in the competition in Japan were (from memory):

1. Large amounts of organic matter and manures AND some chemical fertilizer.

2. Deep plowing.

3. Transplanting of seedlings at about 30 days old (and can't remember but maybe even sooner) and being gentle with the plants during transplanting and transplanting fewer plants bundled together and at optimum distance.

4. Draining the water out of the paddy at the proper time to improve aeration of the soil and to stimulate root growth....and otherwise having total control of the water level in the paddy and manipulating it to best effect.

I haven't been able to find the best link but here is one that talks at length about rice yields and talks some about the competition I mention here...and about more practical matters as well....its pretty involved.

http://www.cropscience.org.au/icsc2004/sym...1869_horiet.htm

I have to stop now and look for a guesthouse on the internet or my wife will shoot me.

Chownah

Edited October 2, 2006 by chownah

[chownah]

Found a guesthouse...so I'll continue.

Farmers, especially small scale farmers from long established farming traditions at the subsistence level, are a conservative lot and tend to stick with what tradition has taught them....and often what tradition has taught them is a set of practices which will produce a crop of rice without fail....if you do what has always been done then you have the greatest assurance that you and your family will have food for another year....if you try something new to increase your yield or reduce your labor or other inputs then you are taking a risk since you don't know for sure if there will be some problem arising from the untried practice...adopting new farming practices is a risk and a risk that subsistence farmers will not take lightly. Why risk starving for a year for an unknown increase in yield?

This reliance on proven but not necessarily the best method is common among subsistence farmers all over the world and is well understood by more educated people who are trying to encourage these farmers to update thier methods...but its an uphill battle in most places. My wife doesn't want the headache of learning a new way to raise rice when she can just do it like it has always been done before and rely on the local wisdom....its the Thai way and so maybe it is the best way in Thailand (she might think)....let's face it, a small scale farmer with a few rai is not going to make a huge amount of extra money by tweeking thier methods...so why bother?

Anyway...that's the common wisdom on why small scale farmers don't update their techniques. My intention is to try some of the techinques to increase yields as mentioned in my previous post and see if I can get them to work here and then see if the other farmers are interested. I think if I can do something that makes a clear increase in yields then they will try it. So far I have let my wife be in charge of the rice...she doesn't use organic methods so it has been hard for me at times but she has been willing to use less pesticides than she would on her own...so....compromise is what a successful marriage is all about after all. Anyway maybe next year I'll grow a small plot myself and see what I can do...I want to avoid a failure since I'm trying to develop credibility, not destroy it.

One interesting thing happened this year. Last year I left a big pile of rice straw in the corner of one field and just left it there. It rotted down and I plowed it into the soil...please note that this pile was way way thicker than you could ever get on an entire rice field. Now we have a rice crop planted in the field again. She (wife) fertilized the field with the recommended amount of fertilizer and stuff is growing ok...but...where the rice straw was plowed in the plants are about 40% taller...it is really really noticeable....there is this big hump of plants in that corner of the field..its impressive. Now, I'm an organic grower and would like to just say that naturally this is what you would expect...but quite frankly since she used a good balanced fertilizer everywhere I really didn't think that the difference would be so great. Also, I need to wait for harvest time to see if this is truly a benefit after all you don't eat the plant...you eat the seed...and there is no guarantee that a bigger plant will produce more seed.....we'll see. Another interesting thing is that these super sized plants are the same color of green as the rest of the plants...this means that it is not because of extra nitrogen that they grew so big...this surprises me but I think it is a good sign because it means (I think) that the growth is balanced and not just driven by some imbalance in the nutrients...but maybe I'm wrong...I'm anxiously awaiting the emergence of the flowers to see how its going.

Chownah

[Maizefarmer]

No - the Chinese yields are consistantly higher on a unit for unit land area - and I have read of instances where they have developed hybrids that outproduce Thai paddies by 4 or 5 times!!

Fine they are hybrids - but so what, why not in Thailand.

The productivity of Thai rice paddies is well down on the Chinese and Japs. CHOWNAH provides some detail on how they achieve high yeilds, fine - but why dont Thai rice farmers apply themselves to adopting whatever the methods are.

The problem is not only manifest in areas which have no canals fro irrigation and therefore have to rely on rain. No the low yeilds are across the board in Thailand covering those areas which have year round water.

Its no different when it comes to cattle farming (dairy or beef).

Okay, we have a humdity problem here which is a never ending problem for milk yeilds, but that aside, the average Thai dairy farm functions at an effciency level that is really quite poor. Farmgate prices (whether its milk, beef or rice) only impact on the ability to increase yields to a point i.e. the more productive you are for a given area of land or a given herd size, the more your profits and better your margins will be.

If the Chinese can hack it then so should the Thai's be able to be.

Tim

[chownah]

On the world scene it is commonly believed that Thai rice yields are unnecessarily low. Some of this (I don't know how much) is do to the inefficient irrigation system in Thailand.

Vietnam has a climate similar to Thailand (more similar than Japan or China) and the Vietnamese farmers get much higher yields so it doesn't seem to be due to day length or weather factors.

One of the things I have done is to add some water channels in my rice fields so that I have better control of the water levels throughout the season...but my wife hasn't used them as I have intended...and its her call on the rice crop....so I don't know if it will help but maybe next year I can try modulating the water levels if I do a small plot on my own. Since the water supply here is somewhat iffy (sometimes the klong is full and sometimes its empty...no one knows why) the farmers tend to keep the paddies full to the brim because you never know if the water will stop for a week or more....this is a survival approach to rice growing but evidentally not what will give the best yields.

Chownah

Edited October 2, 2006 by chownah

[pnustedt]

I am new to rice farming in Isaan but I see that one of the reasons for lower yields here (Sisaket) will be because there is just one crop/year versus 2 or 3 crops/year elsewhere.

The annual process is: Plough April/May, plant seedlings June/July, fertilise/pesticide Aug/Sept, harvest Nov/Dec.

The whole process is labour intensive, mostly on smallholdings with the whole family being involved. Historically it was subsistance farming just to feed the family and the process hasn't changed significantly in recent times. However, it has become more difficult to get people to work the fields and the ploughing and planting process is frequently skipped for a few years - the old rice plantings are allowed to grow each year until they are so choked with weeds it has to be reploughed etc.

Owning land gives families a sense of security and they are generally loathe to part with it, even if it is unproductive - hence you have a large number of smallholdings, with comparatively small paddies which are not properly managed.

The geographical landscape seems to cry out for mechanisation - large flat landscape, few hedgerows, etc. but the political (or cultural) landscape is the limitation. Irigation here is generally not a problem.

A family with 10 rai of well looked after paddies with good irrigation could expect to net about Bt15-25K/yr but this could also vary with market price - you usually get a better price in July than in December, etc. If they were to sell this land they could expect to get Bt300-400K, so their return on investment is hardly worth the effort!

We have about 40 rai and my wife's uncle about 70 rai. We are starting to mechanise and to offer our services to the local community and, hopefully, increase yields, increasing profits. Mechanical harvesting wastes less than hand harvesting. I am interested in Japanese production methods, particularly how they raise seedlings in boxes that are loaded into mechanical planters, I can well see how their controlled environment could produce more reliable and sturdier crops.

[chownah]

Pnustedt,

I want to be sure that I'm clear on something you posted. You talked about how low yields are partly caused by the fact that there is only one crop per year grown. I think you are saying that the growth of weeds in the off season(s) is detrimental to the single crop during the rice season. Is this correct?

I'm asking this because I want to make sure that you are not saying that the higher yields in places with two rice crops per year is because you combine the two harvests into one yield figure and of course you would get double the yield if you grew two crops instead of one. I want to keep this point clear because it was suggested previously that perhaps the difference in yields was because of this multi-cropping on a yearly basis and I want to stress that the yield data for rice growing is always given on a one crop basis...NOT on a yearly basis. This means that in Japan (for instance) a farmer growing one crop often will harvest twice as much rice from that single crop than a Thai farmer will harvest from a single crop in Thailand.

Chownah

[pnustedt]

I was under the impression that yields talked about were per rai per year. Not per harvest - sorry for the misunderstanding. Actually, from what I have seen, the annual rice harvest from a 2/year crop is not twice that of 1/year crop. The single crop/year is much heavier than each of the two crops (although not double).

During the quiet season the rice paddies are generally used for cattle grazing.

However, I do believe that the Japanese would achieve substantially more from a single crop than Thailand because of better control (and more mechanisation) of the process. Also, the Isaan fields are not always ploughed and replanted each year and the level of weeds and subsequently the quality of the rice deteriorates each year.

[chownah]

The single crop/year is much heavier than each of the two crops (although not double).

If the single crop out performs each of the double crops then it seems that the weeds that grow in the off season for the single crop must be adding some fertility...or something to the soil which helps in the growth of the single crop. I would think that leaving a field fallow for an entire year would add even more fertility and that the weeds are helpful. Around here in the north there are native legumes that grow in some fields in the off season and they increase fertility.

Chownah

[Jai Dee]

Surin Governor asks rice farmers to examine their paddy fields

The Governor of Surin Province, Mr. Sompong Anuyutthapong (สมพงษ์ อนุยุทธพงศ์), has warned farmers to continually check their paddy fields closely during the changing seasons from rainy to winter.

Mr. Sompong said as the winter season looms in, the weather condition during the day will be dry while the weather during the night will be damp. He said such shifting climate is favorable for Rice Blast Disease to spread. At the moment, rice is starting to produce grains in some areas, and once the disease is spreading, farmers may find it difficult to see the symptoms. As a result, the damage to the crops can be quite extensive.

Mr. Sompong said once the rice crops are infected with the disease, the rice grains will be unusually lean, while the color of the stems will be brownish. The crops would be fragile and may cause losses of rice grains.

Therefore, rice farmers are warned to examine their paddy fields continuously so they can solve the problem on time. Farmers can contact the local agricultural offices in their areas for further assistance.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 04 October 2006

[pnustedt]

I hear that "the Government" will not be buying much rice this year and that prices will fall as a result. Anyone else heard this or can throw any light on the matter?

[chownah]

One interesting thing happened this year. Last year I left a big pile of rice straw in the corner of one field and just left it there. It rotted down and I plowed it into the soil...please note that this pile was way way thicker than you could ever get on an entire rice field. Now we have a rice crop planted in the field again. She (wife) fertilized the field with the recommended amount of fertilizer and stuff is growing ok...but...where the rice straw was plowed in the plants are about 40% taller...it is really really noticeable....there is this big hump of plants in that corner of the field..its impressive. Now, I'm an organic grower and would like to just say that naturally this is what you would expect...but quite frankly since she used a good balanced fertilizer everywhere I really didn't think that the difference would be so great. Also, I need to wait for harvest time to see if this is truly a benefit after all you don't eat the plant...you eat the seed...and there is no guarantee that a bigger plant will produce more seed.....we'll see. Another interesting thing is that these super sized plants are the same color of green as the rest of the plants...this means that it is not because of extra nitrogen that they grew so big...this surprises me but I think it is a good sign because it means (I think) that the growth is balanced and not just driven by some imbalance in the nutrients...but maybe I'm wrong...I'm anxiously awaiting the emergence of the flowers to see how its going.

Chownah

Harvest is finished and I did some work with this extra tall section of the rice field. I marked off the corner of the field (an area of 10 square metres) and inside this area I picked what seemed to be the best square that was one metre on a side and I harvested the one square metre and kept it seperate and then I harvested the rest of the 10 square metres and tabulated the results.

The "best" one square metre yielded 0.6 kg of rice which, if realized on one rai (this is not likely but of theoretic interest) the yield would be 960 kg per rai.....a yield which is unheard of around here and is a very good yield even by world standards. The 10 square metre area yielded 5 kg of rice (including the rice from the "best" one square metre which was contained within it) which would be equivalent to 800 kg per rai....again an unheard of yield around here. The variety of rice was Gaw Khaw 6 which is khow gniew.

The rice in this area and in this general area lodged. "Lodged" means that when the grain grew it got so heavy that the plant fell down. This doesn't cause a problem for the grain maturing but it means that it must be manually harvested and harvesting lodged rice by hand is more difficult than harvesting rice plants that are standing up by hand. The plants in the 10 sq. meter area were taller than the typical rice in our fields but the stalks were also definitely thicker....but not enough thicker to support the weight of the grain it seems. The fact that the rice lodged could be simply a matter of chance caused by a gust of wind but I'm going to assume it was the weight of the grains.

In developing high yield varieties of wheat, breeding a shorter plant was a crucial issue because wheat can lodge when heavy with a full harvest too and a shorter stem is stronger and can support more weight all else being equal. The highest yields in wheat are always on short stemmed varieties (I think) at least for American farmers who, of course, use machinery to harvest all of the wheat so lodging is not an option. While lodging in rice is not so prohibitive for small farmers in Thailand as it is for wheat farmers in the US, it is still not desireable because of the extra labor required to harvest it. Perhaps there are shorter stemmed varieties of rice available.....which reminds me of Maizefarmers mentioning of hybrid varieties of rice developed outside Thailand.....I'd like to find out about this lodging issue in Thai rice and if I get the time to speak with a rice researcher or if I get lucky on the internet I'll let you know.....if anyone else finds out or knows something about this issue I'd appreciate hearing about it.

Chownah

[lannarebirth]

One interesting thing happened this year. Last year I left a big pile of rice straw in the corner of one field and just left it there. It rotted down and I plowed it into the soil...please note that this pile was way way thicker than you could ever get on an entire rice field. Now we have a rice crop planted in the field again. She (wife) fertilized the field with the recommended amount of fertilizer and stuff is growing ok...but...where the rice straw was plowed in the plants are about 40% taller...it is really really noticeable....there is this big hump of plants in that corner of the field..its impressive. Now, I'm an organic grower and would like to just say that naturally this is what you would expect...but quite frankly since she used a good balanced fertilizer everywhere I really didn't think that the difference would be so great. Also, I need to wait for harvest time to see if this is truly a benefit after all you don't eat the plant...you eat the seed...and there is no guarantee that a bigger plant will produce more seed.....we'll see. Another interesting thing is that these super sized plants are the same color of green as the rest of the plants...this means that it is not because of extra nitrogen that they grew so big...this surprises me but I think it is a good sign because it means (I think) that the growth is balanced and not just driven by some imbalance in the nutrients...but maybe I'm wrong...I'm anxiously awaiting the emergence of the flowers to see how its going.

Chownah

Harvest is finished and I did some work with this extra tall section of the rice field. I marked off the corner of the field (an area of 10 square metres) and inside this area I picked what seemed to be the best square that was one metre on a side and I harvested the one square metre and kept it seperate and then I harvested the rest of the 10 square metres and tabulated the results.

The "best" one square metre yielded 0.6 kg of rice which, if realized on one rai (this is not likely but of theoretic interest) the yield would be 960 kg per rai.....a yield which is unheard of around here and is a very good yield even by world standards. The 10 square metre area yielded 5 kg of rice (including the rice from the "best" one square metre which was contained within it) which would be equivalent to 800 kg per rai....again an unheard of yield around here. The variety of rice was Gaw Khaw 6 which is khow gniew.

The rice in this area and in this general area lodged. "Lodged" means that when the grain grew it got so heavy that the plant fell down. This doesn't cause a problem for the grain maturing but it means that it must be manually harvested and harvesting lodged rice by hand is more difficult than harvesting rice plants that are standing up by hand. The plants in the 10 sq. meter area were taller than the typical rice in our fields but the stalks were also definitely thicker....but not enough thicker to support the weight of the grain it seems. The fact that the rice lodged could be simply a matter of chance caused by a gust of wind but I'm going to assume it was the weight of the grains.

In developing high yield varieties of wheat, breeding a shorter plant was a crucial issue because wheat can lodge when heavy with a full harvest too and a shorter stem is stronger and can support more weight all else being equal. The highest yields in wheat are always on short stemmed varieties (I think) at least for American farmers who, of course, use machinery to harvest all of the wheat so lodging is not an option. While lodging in rice is not so prohibitive for small farmers in Thailand as it is for wheat farmers in the US, it is still not desireable because of the extra labor required to harvest it. Perhaps there are shorter stemmed varieties of rice available.....which reminds me of Maizefarmers mentioning of hybrid varieties of rice developed outside Thailand.....I'd like to find out about this lodging issue in Thai rice and if I get the time to speak with a rice researcher or if I get lucky on the internet I'll let you know.....if anyone else finds out or knows something about this issue I'd appreciate hearing about it.

Chownah

There's some things on the net concerning hybrids chownah. I found this old article, but don't know what progress, if any has been made:

The Nation

High-yielding rice coming

Published on Dec 26, 2003

A hybrid rice breed with record yields of 1,800 tonnes per rai will be

introduced in 2005, allowing Thai farmers to cut production costs by 30 per

cent, says the company that is developing the breed.

The hybrid white rice would allow Thailand to maintain its position as the

world's largest rice exporter, said Montri Congtrakultien, president and CEO

of Charoen Pokphand Trading Group Co Ltd's crop integration business.

The rice breed, which CP has been developing since 2001, is now being grown

in a demonstration plot.

Montri said the hybrid would boost efforts to develop new rice products and

was also in line with the government's effort to improve the quality of Thai

rice.

Experiments at the demonstration plot have shown that the hybrid yields

three times the number of seeds as breeds currently grown in Thailand, he

said.

The new rice, which has not yet been named, has been developed for irrigated

farms and the next stage would be to develop it for other plantations,

Montri said.

Higher production of farm goods will facilitate the government's plan to

make Thailand the "kitchen of the world" and would help efforts to get the

maximum benefit out of every square metre of farm area in the country,

Montri said.

He said the high-yield rice would reduce required plantation areas from 60

million rai to 40 million. The extra 20 million rai could then be used as

orchards or to grow other crops such as fruit or vegetables, he said.

Dr Milagros T Lopez, head of the hybrid breeding team, said the rice yielded

1,500-1,800 kilograms per rai, compared with the current production of

1,000kg. The hybrid rice is a cross between Thai rice and imported rice

breeds.

"I agreed to do the research for hybrid rice because nobody has yet

succeeded in breeding hybrid rice in Thailand," she said.

Lopez worked for 10 years as a researcher at the International Rice Research

Institute in the Philippines. She came to Thailand six years ago and

completed her doctorate degree at Kasetsart University.

Dr Anek Silapapun, senior vice-president of the group, said farmers would

make more money from farming hybrid rice despite a small increase in farm

costs. The production cost of white rice is Bt2,100 per rai, while the cost

of high-yield rice is Bt2,400. But the higher yield will compensate the

cost, he said.

Rice exporting countries such as Vietnam, Burma, India, Indonesia, the

Philippines and China were also developing hybrid rice to strengthen export

competitiveness.

The company is also doing research for hybrid jasmine rice and expects to

introduce it in 2008, Anek said.

Achara Pongvutitham

This organization promotes and tracks hybrid rice production:

http://www.fao.org/ag/agp/AGPC/doc/field/c...vprogramme.html

GRAIN :

http://www.grain.org/research/hybridrice.cfm

http://www.grain.org/briefings/?id=136

Hybrid Rice Blog:

http://www.grain.org/research/hybridrice.cfm?blog

[chownah]

Well it seems that hybrid rice is a controversial topic. I'll have to do a bunch more reading before I feel I can have an informed opinion but it doesn't look good at the moment. One thing that I have learned is that previously when I claimed that hybrid rice seed was available in Thailand I was almost assuredly wrong. I must have been confusing "varieties" of rice with "hybrid" rice.....I guess...although I should have been able to differentiate between these two terms....sort of embarassing but oh well life goes on.

The FAO link (I usually think of them as being a good source of information) indicates only a 15% to 20% increase in yield over best commercial rice varieties and I'm assuming here these are non-hybrid varieties.....if so then the yield increase wouldn't be nearly the huge amounts (double or triple) that some have suggested might be gained. The fact that the seed is expensive and a farmer can not just save seed year to year is definitely a negative...farmers around my neighborhood like to save seed year to year even though buying new seed from the gov't is not much of an expense. I can see where China (they are athe only country with a large percentage of hybrid rice cropping) would push for this 15 to 20% increase in yield because it is a big goal of theirs to be self sufficient in food and this is a big struggle for a country with over 1 billion people and alot of desert.

Chownah

[Gongchime]

About the conservative farmers. There is a famous example when the Balinese had been coerced into trying modern practices. Surprise, the crops failed so they went back to their ancient practice of irrigating the chanels in an unusual/complex manner (which is kind of like a fractal and surprisingly not terribly different from the rhythms that gamelan music plays).

Urban moderns are so arrogant to think they know better than 3,000-5,000 years of success. What works in Europe doesn't necessarily work anywhere else. Duh! Maybe Thailand has low yields because that's all Thailand will support sustainably. That's my take although I'm open to data.

Gong

[teletiger]

Did I recently read that the USFDA have approved the use of GM rice?

Regards

[chownah]

teletiger,

It is difficult for me to know what you have been reading. I even googled "what has teletiger been reading" and the only thing it found was something about the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital having another strike.....so.....?

Chownah

[RamdomChances]

teletiger,

It is difficult for me to know what you have been reading. I even googled "what has teletiger been reading" and the only thing it found was something about the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital having another strike.....so.....?

Chownah

I sometimes worry about Chownah's mental health....he's not joking...I checked

[chownah]

Well, teletiger asked if he had been reading something about GM rice....how the heck am I supposed to know what he's been reading? He probably reads while on the crapper and I'm CERTAINLY not going to go monitor that!!!!!!!!!!! Google is getting better all the time so I just thought.........

Chownah

[chownah]

I bought all of the rice straw from my neighbors 8 rai land holding for 250 baht as is where is. It is all tied up in bundles since they threshed it manually. How many bales do you figure that would make?

Chownah

[robint]

hi all

very interesting posts here. ive been meddling with about 30 rai of paddy for some 8 years on the korat plateau. after some lengthy study study i concluded that rice cultivation is a remarkably complex equation well beyond my modest abitlites as a retired engineer.

some observations off the cuff

ploughing in soft earth conditions 250 baht per rai.

combined harvester 500 baht per rai. This is 30% cheaper than manual labour and a tractor thresher etc and much quicker. a harvester can do up to 100 rai per day and could work 24 hours BUT the fields must be plough into large square and be guranteed free from obstacles. even a small sapling can seriously and expensively damage the blades

paddy rice sold to chinese wholesaler (this year 6 baht.kg was 10 baht last year under mr T government intervention program). 6 baht is barely above production costs

yes you can get a much better price for paddy if you store it till july this has been done traditionally and many village houses have their own grain stores holding 100 sacks but the rice must be dry or the store can get mildew and become poisonous

there are tracked rotovators that can plough in the straw and spent rice plants back into the mud - around 200 baht per rai but surprisingly the machine owner (cousin to my wife) found very little custom for his capable machine last year and has sold it on.

The combine harvester is in great demand but only suitbale for good sized fields greater than 5 rai and they must be free of trees etc (this is not so readily availablea as one might think. Its has been the custom in the past to let stubborn trees get a foothold. these isolated clumps are expensive to remove (need a 20 ton excavator ar 1500 baht per hour)

Yes water is everything but the main rivers are poorly managed (often for selfish reasons). we have a good irrigation canal system but it also is badly managed so we mostly get only one crop a year - average yeild 5 - 7 sacks per rai) This could be 10 sacks if optimum manual planting used but there isnt the labour around for this taks and i havent seen any mechanical planters ANYONE know of one???????

its surprising how little farm labour is available these days. all the fit labour has gone to the big cities or works abroad. only grannies, old fellas and kids and me around in the village

A typical farmer is permanently in debt. he had to borrow from a money lender to finance the planting each year and pay back 2 saks per rai at harvest time. Crippling debt. the village fund helped to solve this problem but may well fade away under a new government.

more and more farmers are selling off their fields for 20,000 a rai.

the future is bleak for rice, as bad if not worse as it was some 8 years ago when i started to study the problem

Why not grow another crop, can you suggest something!!!!!!!

in many cases any other kind of cash crop is open to easy theft, fish farming, turtles, frogs, fruit, etc you have to stay in the filds at nights and guard the crop yourself. fruit trees, you have to wait up to 5 years for a first commercial crop

poultry has become prohibitive due to bird flu. must be conducted under secure closed shed conditions as per europe. very capital intensive and dominated by the big players like CP

it always astonished me why thias never grew tomatoes but then they rarely even bother with a vegetable patch - WHY??????????

a few old grannies do have little veggie patches and come round selling their produce. i can get a whole bunch of stuff for 5 baht, good enough for 2 days of family eats

food - soup noodles 10 baht a bowl, kanom jeen with nam ya 5 baht, jok 5 baht eggs 2 baht each, various curries sold in plastic backs from the back of a truck, 5 - 10 baht. you can live healthily on very little cash but kids dont thrive and tend to be skinny and backward but are not bloated with kwashiorkor as with the starving africans. parents cant afford fresh milk or quality baby formula food. those kids fed on proper food are nearly twice the size and much brighter in general

before i came here i knew nothing about farming. i dont claim to know very much now but i do know how much i dont know and the reasons for the way things are done traditionally are not alway scientific. one should never ignore custom and practice and the destructive nature of corruption and the Thai patronage system (which they seem to love and support with unreasonable fervour)

i very much welcom this debate (though please lets keep it strictly fromal - no trivial bickering and slagging off - this is a very serious subject IMHO)

Edited December 4, 2006 by robint

[pnustedt]

This could be 10 sacks if optimum manual planting used but there isnt the labour around for this taks and i havent seen any mechanical planters ANYONE know of one???????

Yanmar are developing a rice planter, however, it requires the seedlings to be grown in special boxes and placed into the feeder, not sure if this would catch on in Thailand. They are proposing to start marketing it next year.

Your costs in Korat seem lower than ours near Sisaket, but we do harvest smaller fields with trees and all, and rogue stumps marked by a cane with a plastic bag on it!

We have about a rai laid to tomatoes, they are ripening now, seems quite good. We also grow chillies, spring onions, egg plants, marrows, melons, etc. and sell direct to public at local markets.

[teletiger]

Good post Robin. Maybe RC could split it off. It would make an interesting new thread. The labour problem seems to be getting worse in our area.

Regards

[robint]

qote

Yanmar are developing a rice planter, however, it requires the seedlings to be grown in special boxes and placed into the feeder, not sure if this would catch on in Thailand. They are proposing to start marketing it next year.

Your costs in Korat seem lower than ours near Sisaket, but we do harvest smaller fields with trees and all, and rogue stumps marked by a cane with a plastic bag on it!

We have about a rai laid to tomatoes, they are ripening now, seems quite good. We also grow chillies, spring onions, egg plants, marrows, melons, etc. and sell direct to public at local markets.

unquote

hi P

what variety of tomato are you using (not moneymaker i hope :-)

how do you fertilise and irrigate such a large area. As we all know tomatoes really love growing in shiezer. This is well evidenced in sewage farms as the tomatoes seeds pass through the gut un harmed and find their way on to the banks of the settling ponds - reall organic farming

but seriously tomatoes do need feeding and regular watering

Thai generally prefer the small cherry tomatoes which are also much cheaper in the market than the full sized variety (which you often cant find in our town) 15baht vs 30 baht kg

I know of one market gardener who has his beds laid out in 2m wide by 10 m long heaped up rows. its all kept under semi shade (black agricultural netting held up on poles). And his soil is a beautiful black peaty stuff. he wont tell me how he got it like that. I havent seen soil like that since i was in UK

i gues he has about half a rai laid out and its intensive all the year round. He and his wife work the plot every day and sell in the local market

I suggested to him that he harvest his lettuces and other delicate green salad veggies in reuseable trays. He could take this lot to market and sell the stuff live, ie pull out the plants as needed by customers, but he still prefer to cut the plants at source and take to market. this resulted in wasteage as such methods means the plants wilt very quickly and become unsaleable. but thais dont listen to flangs

my wife said i shouldnt give him good advice, he lose monkey face

for rice harvesting If you have good sized clean reliable fields, you get a better price

Edited December 4, 2006 by robint