Thai Language - Learning Curve

[fell4thai]

How difficult is it to learn the Thai language? How many months should I plan for studying Thai home before leaving (Planning 3hours week with teacher and some cdroms courses) ? I would like to be okay communicating when I move to Thailand.

I am fluent in French, English, Spanigh and Italian - so I have been thru the process of learning languages. Just have no clue on the complexity of learning a non-latin based language.

Thanks.

[Padkapow Guy]

I say about 5 years. Just kidding. I would say that for me Thai has been one of the most difficult languages to pick up. I think that may because I don't get to use it but a couple of weeks per year. Althought when I work in Thailand for @ 6 months I did seem to pick up the lingo alot easier. The hard part for me is the distinction in the tones. I can speak (not fleuently) Thai , Tagalag , Korean, and Japanese.Thai is definatly the hardest for me. When I say speak I mean the military way, just enough to get drunk and laid. (maybe a little more but a guy has to cover his bases first)

Good luck with it. You might find it easier once you arrive in LOS.

[tutsiwarrior]

definitely very hard to 'pick up' thai...but you need to know what you need the language for...for simple tourist purposes just use a tourist phrase book...if you want to settle here and start a business and etc then serious study is required as reading and writing the language is required...I would say a tutor one hour per day for at least a year.

I am fluent in English, Spanish and bahasa indo...spanish and bahasa are easy languages for a native english speaker to learn...they use latin alphabet and are phonetic and are spoken by large numbers of people worldwide. Not so with thai, with the 'tonal' problems and squiggly alphabet spoken by a tribe in a small SE Asian country.

Besides...if you just want to get laid wiggle your tongue and nod towards the door and you don't got to speak nothin'...

[Drewcifer]

For me at least, learning Thai is proving to be a life-long chore and task. I think if you are not raised with a tonal languange, that you will never really be able to speak one as well as someone who was.

My humble bit of advice would be to learn the Thai alphabet first.. the great thing about Thai is that its phonetic and once you can start to read it things get a lot easier... (I still hate that there are no spaces between words... you can always tell when I've been trying to read something Thai in our house, there are always little pencil lines between the words..)

By the way, what CD rom courses are you using? Have you checked out http://www.seasite.niu.edu/Thai/ ?

In my opinion, its a great site for the Thai learner...

[taxexile]

My humble bit of advice would be to learn the Thai alphabet first.. the great thing about Thai is that its phonetic and once you can start to read it things get a lot easier

very good advice.

[tutsiwarrior]

'Thai for Beginners' by Benjawan Poomsan Becker (ISBN 1-887521-00-1...available at most Asia Books outlets in BKK) is a good text in this regard...

[Boon Mee]

Grab the AUA workbooks - available on Amazon - and start with the consonants/vowels. Begin reading & speaking at the same time and you'll be further ahead. You won't be able to "read" Thai for a while but you can decipher words.

If you're not living in Thailand when your studying the language it will go slower. But, the Thai Army channel is available for free all over the world. Pick up a receiver and a 36" dish, aim it at Telstar Five (if you're in north America) and you've got 24 hours of Thai programs. Not sure which satellite it's being broadcast off in Europe but it's available there and was also down in Brazil when me & the missus lived in Rio.

Have fun!

[fell4thai]

Thanks for all the good advices! I would be in Thailand for a year or two, mostly wanting to learn to speak with other people than farangs - also, I believe one should adapt and opt for local languages and customs as much as possible.

I also believe that speaking some Thai would help me avoid certain negative circumstances or at least help me getting out of it easier.

Drewcifer - Here's the information for the Thai course I purchased, apprently it's a really good novice course ( coupled with private lessons for alphabets and intonations ) It's from Rosetta Stone.

Thai Level I, Personal Edition - $195.00 (8000 baht)

(Mac/Win CD-ROM)

With over 3500 real-life images and phrases in 92 lessons, Thai Level I, Personal Edition provides up to 250 hours of mastery instruction in Listening Comprehension, Reading, Speaking and Writing. Systematic structure teaches vocabulary and grammar naturally, without lists and drills. Previews, exercises and tests accompany every lesson with automated tutorials throughout the program. Level I, Personal Edition provides instruction in such categories as:

Present, Past, Future

Professions and Activities

Family Relationships; People and Talking

Descriptive Adjectives; Comparative Nouns

Alone, Crowd, Friend

Directions: How Do I Get To . . .

[Drewcifer]

Yes, I've heard the Rosetta Stone stuff was not bad...

lol, the best way I found is to get a Thai family...

although I do like the books by Benjawan Poomsan Becker (despite the Stanford thing).. she has a great dictionary out Thai/English English/Thai that is phonetic and made for English speakers..

of my dictionaries, its probably my favorite....

on another note, I find it terribly irriating that in the Thai ABC's, its Kaa Kuat but Kuat is spelled with kaa Kai (egg) .... and classifiers.. oh man

[caughtintheact]

fell4thai

You might also try learning to write Thai first. If you can write, you will be able to learn to read. If you can read, you will be able to pronounce the words....then it's a matter of grammar and vocabulary.

Writing does not have to be hard. Learn it the same way you learned to write your native language. Get a pad of paper and practice the letters. Where a letter has a little circle (and most do) always start with the circle. Once you knwo the letters learn the vowels and vowel combinations, then start making words, and eventually sentences. Although the Fundamentals of the Thai language download has disappeared from the Internet, if anyone has the file, maybe they can send it to you....I'd also like to get it again.

At http://lexitron.nectec.or.th/ (not working as I write this) you can look around and find a download of the Thai lexitron (16MB), which is free and is a good translator, much better than some of the dictionary programs that you buy in shops here.

I learned how to write in 3 months with the help of a tutor and an hour a day practicing. I've spoken about 4 other languages, but always too lazy to really learn them, but Thai I actually found fairly easy (at a basic level) when I was able to write.

[meemiathai]

(I still hate that there are no spaces between words... you can always tell when I've been trying to read something Thai in our house, there are always little pencil lines between the words..)

Very true! But the Thais don't have problems???

[mrmnp]

Look back a little further for a thread I started on this subject. It is one of the most informative threads on this website and includes posts from linguists.

[taxexile]

where is it and what was the title of the thread?

[Rhys]

If you can find a copy.. it may be out of print... The Fundamentals of The Thai Language (5th edition) Stuart Campell B.E. (Sydn.) F.R.G.S. Chuan Shaweevongs. M.S. (Indiana)

This was the book we used in Training...However, I was in a language immersion program.. So, it was sink or swim...

Cheers...

[the gentleman]

This forum must be the elite - see IQ test.

So many here report to us, saying they speak Thai, read Thai, understand the culture etc (you will never 100% understand it!).

I have met one guy in nearly 7 years who speaks fluently - yes I do speak Thai and pretty good Thai, but where are all you fluent speakers? I have met one!

Speaking it properly means you also have your tones, I meet a lot of people in Phuket, who say they speak it, but speaking Thai in an Australian accent, English accent or Amercian drawl, is not speaking it - see if you can fool a Thai person on the phone - that is a good test.

I would hazard a guess to say many members of this forum, wouldnt have a clue speaking business type Thai - bar Thai is easy, and speaking and communicating with your spouse is Thinglish.

An easy example of teaching books, not being "speak easy" is: koh (Island), the Thai way you pronounce it is Goh, but the "fluent" expats I meet still pronounce it as its written.

harloy baht and pang isnt speaking it

[Axel]

where is it and what was the title of the thread?

Skipped my lunch today, so had time to search for it:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6643&st=0

[Rhys]

Ngaah.... We poot geng..na.. LOL as for the reading, and writing.. now..that is remarkable... Speaking...well there is of course.. the Three letter organization test.. can you say the "ng" tone without .. a lingusitic marker...

And yet.. there are days.. I don't have a clue what my friends ...by the way not in the trade but in the villages and NGOs are talking about... But the smile helps and then the clarification begins in Thai style.. high IQ is relative...and not a requirement...actually could work against the language instinct..

[the gentleman]

Ngaah.... We poot geng..na.. LOL as for the reading, and writing.. now..that is remarkable... Speaking...well there is of course.. the Three letter organization test.. can you say the "ng" tone without .. a lingusitic marker...

And yet.. there are days.. I don't have a clue what my friends ...by the way not in the trade but in the villages and NGOs are talking about... But the smile helps and then the clarification begins in Thai style.. high IQ is relative...and not a requirement...actually could work against the language instinct..

chaat loy!

[Drewcifer]

Gentleman,

I would be willing to be that there are many, many people who will speak passable Thai, yet never become truly fluent in it. I think, for me at least, its a sensativity to tones. If you grow up speaking only english, most people just dont have the tonal sensitivity that one has who grows up speaking a tonal language.

I for one, doubt I will ever lose my farang accent. I just dont get the ng sound (as in ng ngu) and it always comes out wrong. It never fails to crack my family up when I say something like nangsu in thai.

Actually, I would have to agree with Rhys about the IQ thing. I've know some folks that were fairly dim, but could soak up languages like a sponge (I hate those people!)

[britmaveric]

Tones/pitch are the hardest part, I dare say!! However even ferrangs butchering it is welcomed- they respect that we try.

[Drewcifer]

Very true britmaveric,

On more than one occasion, I've tried to communicate in Thai just to the person look at me confused. There was one time when I ordered Chaii yen and the waiter just looked at me confused. I glanced at my wife and she said "I dont know, you said it right" and finally it sunk into the waiter that I spoke Thai to him.

Lol, after epsidodes like that, I'm always leary of opening my mouth in public...

[meemiathai]

Come, dog, horse, in Thai - very difficult for me to distinguish.

Far, near, chicken - little bit easier.

[britmaveric]

drewcifer- I know what you mean spoke in Thai in a Thai restaurant in Oxford. Looked at me like I was a silly git, mind you they pretty much said the same thing. "Oh I think in english so confuse me when you speak Thai".

[Richard W]

An easy example of teaching books, not being "speak easy" is: koh (Island), the Thai way you pronounce it is Goh, but the "fluent" expats I meet still pronounce it as its written.

One thing that irritates me about 'Fundamentals of the Thai Language', which I do like, is that the transliteration does not distinguish a few pairs of sounds. The vowels of 'koh' and 'khor' in open syllables, and the sounds of phor phaan and por plaa are examples where you can always resort to the Thai spelling to tell the difference. However, the refusal to show the difference between short and long 'ae' (they write both 'aa') or short and long 'or' infuriates me, as the Thai spelling often refuses or can't show the difference.

[Richard W]

I find it terribly irriating that in the Thai ABC's, its Kaa Kuat but Kuat is spelled with kaa Kai (egg)

Be grateful they largely dropped khor khuat. (What is it actually used for?). Once the Thais started pronouncing them the same, they found it too hard to remember when to use khor khuat.

[Eneukman]

I'm trying to learn some basics of the Thai language just now in advance of my planned retirement to Thailand next year. One of the biggest problems I'm having (apart from the tones) is just what affects the tones in the written language. I know the basics about consonant class (as the course I'm using calls it), vowel length, vowel shortener and tone marks though nowhere near enough to be other than very slow at "reading" very simple words.

My intention when I arrive next year is to take spme proper lessons. Anyone give an indication of the cost of lessons? (I'll be staying in Pattaya initially).

Alan

[Richard W]

Although the Fundamentals of the Thai language download has disappeared from the Internet, if anyone has the file

I have it, but it seems no one wants it badly enough to give me their e-mail address!

[mrmnp]

Axel: Thanks for fishing up the thread, I haven't checked in lately.

I would like to meet a farang who learned to speak the sound ng gnu easily. I am trying to mimic a deaf persons speech in my attempt to get there. Needless to say I bring forth great laughter from my Thai as I practice, as my facial expressions must be grotesque.

I have taken the advice of the many wise ones who have preceeded me in learning Thai, and am on the consonants at present. Having the advantage of being in Thailand, I buy the charts and books for primary school students for learning aids. Tracing the consonants in the writing books help to write well and lean the consonant alsol. Being addicted to "flash cards" I cut up my tracing booklet to capture the perfectly formed consonants and pasted them on my own flash cards, so now I carry them with me at all times, as when I am caused to wait, or have a moment, I go through them.

I learned both Japanese phonetic alphabets in a couple of months, as my mind seems to work in series, thus, I am learning the connsonants in groups of five, or when the sounds start the same, or when the symbol all contains the ga (chicken)

symbol, etc. Being retired, my motivation is not as strong as it could be if there was something more than convenience driving me.

Drewcifer, I really relate to the blank stares received when speaking a foreign language correctly, it really makes learning more difficult as it attacks your self confidence and makes you question your ability.

I learned Japanese as a child, so while my vocabulary isn't above the conversational level, my accent fools them on the phone. Notwithstanding that, I always start speaking to a Japanese with the words, "I am speaking Japanese now" or "Do you speak Japanese" or "Are you Japanese". because if I don't, they just don't get it. They expect English, and so when my flawless Japanese comes out, they try to understand the words in their limited English. I think I will ask permission to speak Thai of Thai people as a starter phrase, to see if that works, when I get good enough.

Another trick, is to speak when they are not looking at you and there are other Japanese in the room, then they are not thinking "in English" when they hear the words and understand them, then be prepared for the surprise when they turn to see it is a "gaijin" (farang) speaking)

[FarangYaayYaaw]

Getting better at Thai is one of my favorite things about going to Thailand.

ng is easy, try saying this:

coming on, coming on, oming on, ming on, ing on, ng on

just let the ng sound and the 'on' run together (as they do in natural English speach).

Tones are easy too, once you 'get it.' We use tones in English, say this:

"Tom, com here!"

"Tom, is that you?"

The first Tom is the falling tone, the second Tom is the rising tone. Actually the hardest things about tones is not adding "extra" tones - like rising tones in question words, etc. But, it's learanble.

I have a little more trouble with the difference between dor dek, and dhor dtau.

I learned first from transliterations - but I agree this is a bad idea. Learn to read and write Thai from the very start. The writing system is about the only logical thing in Thailand! It's fun.

On Sukhumwit Soi 19 there's a school Somchart Thai Language school which is pretty reasonably priced and the teachers try to keep it fun.

You also have to put in as much time as possible - and do it daily. I still read every day - and it's like excersizing - you get better. ALso, a long-haired dictionary doesn't hurt.

As for getting "fluent" or talking like a native - don't worry about it. For most people it's not possible. Look at a Russian or German who learns English as an adult - 99% will speak with an accent the rest of their lives. It doesn't matter - just get better every day - get in a healthy competition with a friend who's lerning at the same time.

Thais are SO supportive for people who try to learn the language. And the Thais who don't speak English are usually more fun to talk to than the ones who do.

[taxexile]

i can also vouch for the good value and fun to be had whilst learning at the somchart school. recommended .