Vegetarian food

[Kanga Japan]

Can someone tell me the difference between the following:

AHAN CHE (อาหารเจ)

AHAN MANGSAWIRAT (อาหารมังสวิรัติ)

I was under the impression that they both meant vegetarian food, however I was told by a Thai person that CHE is only a 'temporary' sort of thing. Not sure exactly what she means.

Thank you for your help.

[AyG]

AHAN CHE is a Chinese, religious thing. Once or twice a year there is a vegetarian festival and Thai-Chinese (and some Thai people) will eat only "jae" food during these periods for spiritual reasons. I.e. no animal flesh, no onions, garlic, chives, coriander, spices. In other words, pretty disgusting slop for the most part involving lots of fake meats made from gluten and soy.

AHAN MANGSAWIRAT is what you and I would consider vegetarian food - abstaining from animal flesh.

Edited October 26, 2015 by AyG

[AyG]

Just to add, the rules regarding the preparation of jae food are pretty strict. You can't cook it in your regular pots and pans. It has to be prepared in dishes reserved exclusively for cooking jae food.

The vegetarian festival in Phuket is particularly well known. Google "phuket vegetarian festival" for more information.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

Thank you so much for all that information. JAE food is often described as vegetarian food, but I am glad that I now know the difference.

I will have a look at the Phuket Vegetarian Festival.

Much appreciated.

[WorkingTourist]

I’m quite sure they are just synonymous.

I hear “jay” (เจ) all the time, and quite sure it’s never about any special rules or rituals. It’s just food without meat.

Looking up “vegetarian” in my dictionary, and “jay” is the first word with your other word as second. People probably prefer using the shorter.

Edited October 26, 2015 by WorkingTourist

[Kanga Japan]

Dear WorkingTourist,

We are lucky to have someone like AyG to provide us with information.

[DirtyDan]

When we arrived in LoS, we were first told that veggie is ahaan jai... after never being able to find it, we have since learned that for simply requesting the veggie menu at a restaurant, mongsawrat is the proper way to ask.

[Kanga Japan]

Glad to hear that DirtyDan.

[jspill]

Actually you'll see the former used more for 'vegan', as opposed to the latter for 'vegetarian'.

It isn't 100% exact, you won't see that from simple Google translate or Thai-English dictionaries, and it's common for there to be some crossover. But that's a product of veganism being quite fringe and unknown, only 2% of the population are vegan.

Source - http://travel.cnn.com/bangkok/eat/vegetarians-guide-thailand-travel-656275

And here's a Thai Facebook page making the vegan/vegetarian distinction.

[questionsreplies]

99% of the time Thai only use jae because they are lazy to speak properly.

[cdnvic]

99% of the time Thai only use jae because they are lazy to speak properly.

Was going to admonish you for making derogatory comments about Thais, but I'll let the irony of your quote stand instead.

[jspill]

Funny Ajarn Adam's friend Mac just put up a video on this today, popped up in my subscription feed then I remembered this thread. Anyway it repeats post #9, that the first is vegan and the second is vegetarian.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear jspill,

Thank you for that. I wish I could understand Thai more, but if I am correct, he is stating that JAE means 'vegan'. Perhaps he is only referring to the dietary-related area of veganism. I am not familiar with the rules involved in JAE, however vegans eliminate all animal products (including dairy) from their diet and also do not wear leather and avoid any products made from animals. I am not sure if JAE follows these rules as well and realize that you only posted this for interest sake and it is not your opinion.

Interesting video. I wish I could understand it all.

[StoneVisa]

Definition of อาหารเจ

- Vegan diet plus some buddhist belief that restrict certain food like onions or garlic to be eaten.

- Has its origin from Chinese

- Eaten during vegetarian festival

- Has strict preparation method

Definition of อาหารมังสวิรัติ

- Does not include buddhist belief or restriction on certain plant-based food

- Has sub categories for examples: lacto-ovo-vegetarian, pescatarian or ovo-vegetarian

With that being defined, someone who follows the way of veganism are called วีแกน. I guess that no such definition of "vegan" (a person who does not eat or use animal products) existed in Thai language. This is why a direct transliteration of vegan was used.

It might be confusing because เจ is translated as vegan , however its definition includes buddist belief. However, วีแกน lifestyle is free from buddist belief, and it follows the definition of vegan as stated above.

[AyG]

- Vegan diet plus some buddhist belief that restrict certain food like onions or garlic to be eaten.

Not Buddhist belief (and certainly not Thai Buddhist belief). It's based upon Chinese ancestor worship. See https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%A8%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%88 .

[Kanga Japan]

Thank you StoneVisa and AyG.

Much appreciated.

[Plotholes]

Interesting, the pronunciation of the thai word "jae" sounds almost like a chinese dialect with the same meaning.

At least from the chinese perspective, it's linked more to religious practices, though the usage has slowly moved towards non-religous context too.

I wonder if fish sauce is considered as a no-go ingredient...

Edited November 19, 2015 by Plotholes

[AyG]

Interesting, the pronunciation of the thai word "jae" sounds almost like a chinese dialect with the same meaning.

Not surprisingly, really, since according to the RID the word comes from the Chinese - though the vowel sound is slightly different (/ɛ:/ versus the Thai /e:/).

[Plotholes]

Interesting, the pronunciation of the thai word "jae" sounds almost like a chinese dialect with the same meaning.

Not surprisingly, really, since according to the RID the word comes from the Chinese - though the vowel sound is slightly different (/ɛ:/ versus the Thai /e:/).

Yup, I think its does have some chinese roots. The vowel sound you used for the chinese, I assume its for mandarin chinese?

I was actually thinking about the dialect hokkien, although we don't pronounce it with a long vowels like the thai.

[AyG]

Interesting, the pronunciation of the thai word "jae" sounds almost like a chinese dialect with the same meaning.

Not surprisingly, really, since according to the RID the word comes from the Chinese - though the vowel sound is slightly different (/ɛ:/ versus the Thai /e:/).

Yup, I think its does have some chinese roots. The vowel sound you used for the chinese, I assume its for mandarin chinese?

I was actually thinking about the dialect hokkien, although we don't pronounce it with a long vowels like the thai.

One of the weaknesses of the RI dictionary is that it doesn't differentiate between the various Chinese languages, so I don't know. However, in the Wikipedia article on the subject, it does suggest Hokkien roots for the tradition.

https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%A8%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%88

[Mole]

Strictly speaking, like many has said before, เจ means that time of the year when the Chinese has their religious festival where they eat a form of "vegetarian" food. But this type of เจ food is a special strict form of "vegetarian" food, which also does not permit any produce which is from animals such as:

milk, egg, honey, fish sauce, gelatine, collagen, garlic, onions, leeks, coriander

For example, most vegetarians would consider honey to be OK, but not vegans. And of course garlic, onions, leeks, coriander, are certainly no problems for both vegetarians and vegans.

However, there is a quirk in เจ food in that according to religious believe of goddess Guanyin, oysters and producs made from it such as oystersauce is permitted in เจ food.

Oysters would certainly not be permitted for vegetarians nor vegans, so you folks who are into these kinds things, should beware of eating "เจ" food, because they may most likekly contain oystersauce as part of their seasoning. Especially if it's during this "เจ" festival.

However, often, many Thai vegetarian restaurants may label their food as "เจ" when they actually mean that their food is มังสวิรัติ.

The term "มังสวิรัติ" means vegetarian, as in food with no animal producs, which also means that oysters and oystersauce is not used either, and garlic, leeks, oninions and any vegetable or spices is allowed, as long as they're not made from animals.

When we Thai people say that somebody is "vegetarian" we say that "He eat vegetarian food". เขากินมังสวิรัติ, we don't usually use the word เจ for this. Such as if one say "He eat je", "เขากินเจ" it would mean that he a person who is eating "เจ" during these particular days during this Chinese festival.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Mole