Alternatives To Thailand ?

[h5n1]

i think i have a lot to contribute here as i have traveled and lived all over south/east asia but short on time....

cambodia - was great in early 90s but the corruption, poverty, tout hassles (now), high electricty costs and sad nature of the place i think most cannot 'live' here. will drive mad. esp if you are an a/c loving, wetern food eating farang that needs mod cons. cambodia is still lesser value. thailand has superb value for money.

lao - loa was a FANTASTIC trip in mid 90s. it still has great beauty and people are fantastic. high visa costs and its boring. also as they have opened to tourism prices have shot up. lets also not forget the plight of the people, esp the hmong. language is similar to thai and not impossible. visas ez but pricey in country. on border same issue -corruption/hassles.

malaysia - penang would be my choice for the variety of food/people. malaysia is more dear and i could not liev there for teh high cost of alcohol. play the game is much more dear and not ez for foreigners to plug into. language is ez. visas are ez but youll be hassled for too many trips.

singapore - i actually like this place but i think the flats are way out of my league as is the alcohol. you may be able to find a single chinese lady given up on hope for marraige. other than that its pricey boat trip to batam or ugly old indian whores on deskar.food can be cheap an dtheer is loads of community things to involve in and free stuff to see an ddo. wide open for business.

vietnam - love the food, women are hot, respect the culture but they dont like foregners and they see them as targets. if you want to live away from the people isolated or as a backpacker - it might work for awile.

china - for me: too dirty, too many hassles (govt/people), food basically sucks. visas not ez for amerikkkans

myanmar - not possible

indonesia - you will start to get hassled after too many trips in, visa not cost money (big), it is VERY dirty, it is VERY corrupt. people are very nice even to americans, very uneducated, hot chicks in sumatra ask you to marry 2x a day, food basic-unclean-unvaried (gets boring). bali/lombok is nice but no chicks really save for hags in kuta that come from madura isl. old ladies wanting big money. price inhouse st = 200-300,000rph. beer is cheap. im not big on lazy asian men but indo they make laziness a fine art. language same as malay and ez to learn

nepal - not ez to get long term visa, political instability, nice people, birds-animals, backpacker enclave has some great restauarnts, local nepali food sucks pretty much. beauty. decent liquor prices.

india - any/all cities are filthy with piss and shti everywhere, poverty crushing and every minute someone is trying to scam you. it makes little difference if you knwo all this they will still try which makes india so trying. traveled all over but not much in goa. himachal pradesh is beautiful as all the mountians. would not bother w/ kashmir. poverty is tiring and too crushing and the rudeness makes my blood boil. it is very dirty on every level, eevn your hotel. basic food gets very tiresome but if you pay restaurant prices you can get good delicious food - if you like indian food of course (thais incidently DO NOT LIKE INDIANS OR INDIAN FOOD). there is some smokeables to be found, but one must be careful. liquor can be expensive. not much technology despite th ehype.

phils - only spent a few months there. i found the food unfresh an dvery bland and unvaried. the biggest complaint. despite the gun thing which i am still wary of i traveled all over save for mindanao and never had problems although my company would not take me to mindanao or the tip of palawan - pussies. i dont lik ethe gun thing but these are my issues: hotels are poor value compared to mainland asia (i hear if you have residence card you get discount???), electricity is $$$, cigarattes and phones are cheap as is rum....i think san mig is piss and dont drink beer anyway becasue it makes me fat -im not aware of cheap/good whisky there but i dont know. that leaves rum which makes you fat and candidate for diabetes. health care i think is way more dubious and expensive and for dental i worry about hiv. it seems you have to marry or find st girls which limits you to ac/subic and cebu by and large. id love to find a PRETTY lady to live with sure. ganja laws are harsh as thailand if you smoke. but i hear reality is a bit different. i hear the girls now are as much about money as thais. philippina do not age well imo.

* i wish i knew more about philippines though, i would like to find a few guys looking to travel for some months with serious intention of finding a nice place to live.

i have no issue with thai language or buddhism. perhaps more a buddhist than catholic for sure.

the thing w/ me about thailand (south east asia mainland) is i like it and best i can i 'get it'. i love the food, culture, can speak a smattering of all languages, hooking up is ez enuff.

if you cant eat the food and rink the 'local' booze your costs will be dramatically higher

PHILS: its funny, i meet many guys here in thailand who have come from phils. they seem to be happy here -so happy they dont want to go back. ive met some philippina very happy to be here 'clean'. but when i ask the guys when they are reminicing (sp) about how great the phils are - why dont you go back?? they mumble and grumble and dont answer - i think bec thailand beats it hands down on many levels and thats why i cant tear myself away and go visit.

the old which is better phils/thai question is aged old but it comes to this...guys who are settled in phils are basically ok with it. phils sees few new new meat now the us servicemen are gone. phils me thinks sees fewer thai converts.

** morocco -pass

** pakistan - fantastic place, mountains spectacular but no where for us to be now

**korea - men aer wholly xenophobic, food one dimensional as are the people. food very fresh, people clean and educated. women are stunning!

Edited October 5, 2006 by h5n1

[Patsycat]

After all that i think i must live in paradise!!!

[midas]

I would just like to mention one place that doesn't seem to have listed so far and that is

Sri Lanka. I have traveled extensively throughout the island and while tragically hostilities have broken out again in the North between the Tamil Tigers and the government, I still don't think it's any more dangerous than the Philippines or other violent places mentioned so far. I've never heard of any violent crimes on my many visits there.

I think it's a place where you could have a very quiet existence if that what you wanted.

it's a very gentle pace of life - a good place for retirement.

The people are very friendly and easy going- they are also Buddhist. The northern part of the island may be more risky now but all the way down the South Western Coast its safe. It's also quite inexpensive and number of Germans, Swiss etc have purchased quite luxurious homes overlooking the beach that they only use as holiday homes at Christmas ! There are a few expats living there full-time as well though.

[fruittbatt]

I would just like to mention one place that doesn't seem to have listed so far and that is

Sri Lanka. I have traveled extensively throughout the island and while tragically hostilities have broken out again in the North between the Tamil Tigers and the government, I still don't think it's any more dangerous than the Philippines or other violent places mentioned so far. I've never heard of any violent crimes on my many visits there.

I think it's a place where you could have a very quiet existence if that what you wanted.

it's a very gentle pace of life - a good place for retirement.

The people are very friendly and easy going- they are also Buddhist. The northern part of the island may be more risky now but all the way down the South Western Coast its safe. It's also quite inexpensive and number of Germans, Swiss etc have purchased quite luxurious homes overlooking the beach that they only use as holiday homes at Christmas ! There are a few expats living there full-time as well though.

Real estate prices in Colombo are on a par with parts of Europe and the US: out of my league.

Medical services are basic & scary, apart from one or two facilities in Colombo.

Many pharmaceuticals are hard to obtain. ( I always take supplies to my relatives there).

Food is cheap and delicious if you like Indian-style, but the prob is that most is cooked in cholestrol-rich palm-oil: disastrous for those with heart issues.

Bureaucracy is mind-boggling (like India, and everything manual, nothing computerised). Postal service is unreliable & postal theft is a commonplace.

Monsoon can be very heavy, and summer intensely hot.

Rife with petty scams for the unwary tourist.

Russian and Chinese gangs control much of the prostitution scene & gambling, drugs in Colombo.

Very beautiful in coastal areas.

People generally hospitable. Extremes of few rich and many poor, though Colombo has a large "middle class".

Languages & writing moderately difficult. (Sinhala & Tamil both).

Good English bookshops & some trendy crafts in Colombo (Barefoot, Paradise Road) some upmarket stores (Odel Unlimited, Cotton Club etc.)

Cheap bras, ladies! But the downside is the emphasis on "modest" dress: sleeves, trousers & long shirts.

Great coffee at the Barista chains. Great shawarmas at Dine-More.

Some classy clubs in top hotels....

But don't forget that there are good reasons for the mass exodus since 1948: war and violence are not confined to the Jaffna peninsula! Bombings happen in Colombo, too.

Edited October 5, 2006 by fruittbatt

[geevlus]

How about Bristol, in the UK, where I happen to "live". Great place - Don't know what your missing

[GuestHouse]

How about Bristol, in the UK, where I happen to "live". Great place - Don't know what your missing

We should never underestimate home... It's where very many people go running to when things go to pieces overseas and it is a place only a fool cuts ties to such that they can't go back if things turn out for the worst.

[simon43]

Very true GuestHouse. My ex-wife in the UK has told me that if I ever get sick of Thailand, she will rent out the garden shed to me at a very reasonable rent

Simon

[GracelessFawn]

All this right here in Thailand--so why the concern about it in PI?

Possibly because this show of arms is a relative anomaly in Thailand and part of daily life in the Philippines?

In a way you are right. Philippines don't have a problem against gun ownerships and such. It is even a basic right in my country!

[GracelessFawn]

Ms Graceless, may I suggest that of everyone posting here you are in the best position to actually give a CONSTRUCTIVE comparison of life in Philippines vs life in Thailand.

There are many posters here who are genuinely interested in getting a handle on your country with a view to deciding whether to move there. Perhaps you could contribute some useful info such as camparing costs of living, costs of apartments/condos, and any other observations from you own first hand experience. I'm sure many would appreciate such practical advice.

Thanks for the kind advice Fruittbatt.

That was what I had planned to do when I saw the title of the thread for the first time, but that changed when I saw some bad publicity written here. I couldn't stomach the half-truths, the outdated infos and the untruths that people base their opinions on when writing about the Philippines!

I couldn't just sit back and take the punches.

Edited October 5, 2006 by GracelessFawn

[Wolfie]

Maybe we can ask the Thaivisa administrators to open a new 'whining' section so that the unhappy members can vent.

I'm not volunteering to moderate that place!

[dgoz]

The ravings of gracelessfawn on this topic should give you some insight into the PI.

They can't except that anything is wrong with that helle hole of a place and therefor there is no effort to change. (especially if a fault is mentioned by a foreigner)

It will be the same in 20 years as it is now.

The men are very macho with inferiority complexes (same as Latin Am) who wouldn't think anything of taking out a farang.

Definitely off my list.

I expect this growing nationalism that is brewing in Thailand at the mo will eventually see it go down the same path. There is a simmering resentment of foreigners here that only needs a nudge to set it on a more serious path. The new laws we are seeing now subconciously effect peoples psyches and makes it feel like it's OK for them to be anti-foreign as well.

Enjoy it while it lasts lads.

[gabe]

I expect this growing nationalism that is brewing in Thailand at the mo will eventually see it go down the same path. There is a simmering resentment of foreigners here that only needs a nudge to set it on a more serious path. The new laws we are seeing now subconciously effect peoples psyches and makes it feel like it's OK for them to be anti-foreign as well.

Enjoy it while it lasts lads.

I agree and IMHO it might not last too much longer.

I have no idea where this resentment of foreigners in Thailand comes from because there are not that many foreigners(non-asian/thai) living in Thailand when compared to the enormous number of foreign asians living in the U.S.A.

[fruittbatt]

I agree and IMHO it might not last too much longer.

I have no idea where this resentment of foreigners in Thailand comes from because there are not that many foreigners(non-asian/thai) living in Thailand when compared to the enormous number of foreign asians living in the U.S.A.

Maybe it's not the QUANTITY but the QUALITY of farangs that the Thais are worried about:

John Karr & numerous other paedophiles

Dr. Hellfried Satori

the English bloke in Pattaya who stabbed his Thai girlfriend to death about 2 months ago

George Patrick Dubie

drunken Kee Noks who can't even get together the bucks for a Tiger Air fare out of the country & who wear the same clothes every day

Illegal bar owners

the Russian mafia

the boiler room bankers

to name but a few.....

[GuestHouse]

I have no wish to hijack this thread, nor indeed portray The Philippines in a bad light; I have already said I enjoyed my time there.

But aspects of this thread reminded me of that grand old lady of the BKK Post Letter Pages. Edith Clampton (Mrs.).

If you were not in Thailand to read her letters you missed a legendry moment in Thai journalistic history). For those of you who have never heard of Edith Clampton, heard of her but never read her works or perhaps worst sin of all, forgotten Edith Clampton, I have dug up the following.

Apologies in advance to Gracelessfawn.

From the Letters to the Editor of the Bangkok Post in the Halcyon days of expat life in Thailand.

No faith in Philippines

SIR: I was shocked to read in the Bangkok Post that the Philippines will be launching its own satellite in 1996. With all due respect and with traumatic experiences behind me, I can honestly say that country is not technically advanced enough to be setting off its own rockets. I have written to the President of the Philippines, Cardinal Sin, and asked him to stop this nonsense. They should be seeking the assistance of another country to help launch their satellite.

If they do insist on firing rockets into space, I hope they give us plenty of warning so that we can build air-raid shelters. The last thing I want is to be on the receiving end of a Philipino rocket.

Edith Clampton (Mrs)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A rocket for Edith

SIR: Excuse me, but I cannot help but to react to Mrs Edith Clampton’s letter about the Philippines.

Edith Clampton, the Philippines may not be as technologically advanced as your country of origin, but we, the Filipino people (not Philipino), are not idiots either. I believe that we can do good without seeking the assistance of another country in launching our own satellite. We can make something as good as you people can by utilising our own resources and our very own capabilities, however “limited” they may be compared to your “high” standards.

With all those “traumatic” experiences you have had in our country, I am sure that you can never be convinced that we can really launch satellites. So why not start building your own air-raid shelter and stay there so you can stop worrying about Philippine-made rockets crashing on your head? Or better yet, since I assume you come from a technologically advanced country, why don’t you just build your own spacecraft and fly as far as you can from the Philippines and the rest of Southeast Asia.

Mister Low-Tech

Kantang, Trang

And let's have none of this nonsense that Edith was a fictional creation... She was real.... A woman with her finger on the pulse of what really matters... standards and the importance of maintaining them.

[gabe]

I agree and IMHO it might not last too much longer.

I have no idea where this resentment of foreigners in Thailand comes from because there are not that many foreigners(non-asian/thai) living in Thailand when compared to the enormous number of foreign asians living in the U.S.A.

Maybe it's not the QUANTITY but the QUALITY of farangs that the Thais are worried about:

John Karr & numerous other paedophiles

Dr. Hellfried Satori

the English bloke in Pattaya who stabbed his Thai girlfriend to death about 2 months ago

George Patrick Dubie

drunken Kee Noks who can't even get together the bucks for a Tiger Air fare out of the country & who wear the same clothes every day

Illegal bar owners

the Russian mafia

the boiler room bankers

to name but a few.....

Thais don't kill caucasian farangs?

asian organized crime

[fruittbatt]

Thais don't kill caucasian farangs?

asian organized crime

Of course they do, and of course there is plenty of Thai-based crime & corruption, AS WE ALL KNOW.

However, this year has seen unprecented media attention to the crimes of farangs. It would be interesting to know whether there have actually been more farang crimes committed or whether the Thai media has just given them more publicity (and if so: WHY?).

The Karr case was especially high-profile, and it seems to be no coincidence that the new regs were announced shortly after Karr's extradition to the US.

[terry57]

The ravings of gracelessfawn on this topic should give you some insight into the PI.

They can't except that anything is wrong with that helle hole of a place and therefor there is no effort to change. (especially if a fault is mentioned by a foreigner)

It will be the same in 20 years as it is now.

The men are very macho with inferiority complexes (same as Latin Am) who wouldn't think anything of taking out a farang.

Definitely off my list.

I expect this growing nationalism that is brewing in Thailand at the mo will eventually see it go down the same path. There is a simmering resentment of foreigners here that only needs a nudge to set it on a more serious path. The new laws we are seeing now subconciously effect peoples psyches and makes it feel like it's OK for them to be anti-foreign as well.

Enjoy it while it lasts lads.

i just dont seem to have the same observations as yourself off thailand.

i spend a considerable amount of time in los each year and have been traveling here for many years.

it always seems to be the same to me and i always have a good relationship with the thai.

your comment " simmering resentment of foreigners " i never have observed this.

as far as all this commotion over visa law changes, it seems to me that we had it very good for many years and there just bringing them up to a reasonable standard.

the visa laws in australia are very harsh and thailands visa laws have been very flexable for many years.

this subject has been raised because off thailands changing visa rules but if you love being in thailand you will not leave because of the change.

i think that the people that will do a bolt where going to leave anyway.

any way,

i think that i'll spend my time between los, bali, malaysia and aussie but not much time in aussie as i much prefer asia.

the thing im mainly concerned about is medical treatment and access to a top hospital if the need arises.

out of all of the above bali does not meet this criteria.

of all the negative things about los i feel that the positives rise well above the negatives and its still my favorite county in asia and i cant wait to move here on a more permanent basis.

im a lucky guy as i can always move out if i feel i need too.

the farang that seem to be the happiest are the people that have the choise to leave if they wish.

the unhappy ones are the ones that have no other alternative.

if people feel that there not happy here they must leave as no one is forcing anyone to stay and to keep complaining about los is a waist of time.

cheers

[midas]

Fruittbat - a good list ! Just some comments :-

Real estate prices in Colombo are on a par with parts of Europe and the US: out of my league.

BUT NOT DOWN THE SOUTH WEST COAST - GALLE AREA

Medical services are basic & scary, apart from one or two facilities in Colombo.

I ONCE SAW A LIST FROM THE SRI LANKAN MEDICAL ASSOCOATION - 90% OF THE DOCTORS ALL OVER THE ISLAND GRADUATED IN EITHER THE UK OR THE USA - BUT YES THE FACILITIES ARE BASIC.

Russian and Chinese gangs control much of the prostitution scene & gambling, drugs in Colombo.

I DID NOT KNOW THAT !

Very beautiful in coastal areas.

ABSOLUTELY !

But don't forget that there are good reasons for the mass exodus since 1948: war and violence are not confined to the Jaffna peninsula! Bombings happen in Colombo, too.

SADLY I KNOW - BUT AGAIN GO DOWN BEYOND HIKKADUWA AND ITS ANOTHER WORLD

[terry57]

I agree and IMHO it might not last too much longer.

I have no idea where this resentment of foreigners in Thailand comes from because there are not that many foreigners(non-asian/thai) living in Thailand when compared to the enormous number of foreign asians living in the U.S.A.

Maybe it's not the QUANTITY but the QUALITY of farangs that the Thais are worried about:

John Karr & numerous other paedophiles

Dr. Hellfried Satori

the English bloke in Pattaya who stabbed his Thai girlfriend to death about 2 months ago

George Patrick Dubie

drunken Kee Noks who can't even get together the bucks for a Tiger Air fare out of the country & who wear the same clothes every day

Illegal bar owners

the Russian mafia

the boiler room bankers

to name but a few.....

very nice post batty and i salute you my learn'ed friend as these are my exact feelings as well.

this resentment of falang is just crap to me and has very little basis.

they always treat me good but i also treat them good.

elementary dear watson.

cheers friend.

[fruittbatt]

Thanks Midas,

yes, it is quite true about the Chinese & Russian gangs. I stayed in Kollupitya last year for a month (research & family business) & the Chinese operate heavily there (restaurants, hotel Juliana etc, casinos). I know about the Russian involvement via my cousin who researched & wrote about it as South Asia correspondent for a London newspaper.

I agree about the south coast. My family is originally from Matara, near Mirissa.

I love Sri Lanka but prefer Thailand at the moment!

Edited October 5, 2006 by fruittbatt

[GuestHouse]

I think its an exageration to say there is a general seathing resentment towards foreigners in Thailand, though I would agree that resentment does exist and is more openly expressed now than it was, say ten years ago.

I think that is down to a few things, nationalism, the policies and expressions of the Thai RaK Thai political party and it has to be said, the number of foreigners turning up in Thailand and paying no respect at all the the country they are visiting or moving too.

i spend a considerable amount of time in los each year and have been traveling here for many years.

I'd be interested to know what you mean by a "Considerable Amount of Time".. How is that expressed in terms of weeks/months per year?

[fruittbatt]

very nice post batty and i salute you my learn'ed friend as these are my exact feelings as well.

this resentment of falang is just crap to me and has very little basis.

they always treat me good but i also treat them good.

elementary dear watson.

cheers friend.

Thanks, Terry.

I agree that in Thailand you mostly get what your give in terms of relationships with people. Same, same everywhere.

If we were all to get paranoid that the Thais did not like or want us I think it could soon become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Better to realise what the new regs are trying to achieve and talk with influential Thais (big travel agents, Immigration officers, hoteliers, bank managers, school-principals, real-estate principals etc) about how some "good farangs" will be forced to leave. That way the Thais get to understand that some people will get a raw deal, while some "baddies" will be able to stay forever under the new provisions.

[terry57]

I think its an exageration to say there is a general seathing resentment towards foreigners in Thailand, though I would agree that resentment does exist and is more openly expressed now than it was, say ten years ago.

I think that is down to a few things, nationalism, the policies and expressions of the Thai RaK Thai political party and it has to be said, the number of foreigners turning up in Thailand and paying no respect at all the the country they are visiting or moving too.

i spend a considerable amount of time in los each year and have been traveling here for many years.

I'd be interested to know what you mean by a "Considerable Amount of Time".. How is that expressed in terms of weeks/months per year?

refer back to our original conversation regarding my history on thailand which you asked me for on another thread and i provided to you in kind.

you also asked me about my life which i also provided to you and you ended up accusing me of lying about certain things.

i proved everything i said was true.

have you forgotten already. ?

the bottom line guesthouse is,

do not respond to anything i post as im not interested in anything you have to say as quite frankly, you bore me to tears and i have no respect for you what so ever.

sorry mate,

but thats my take on you.

bye bye guesthouse as im on shift tomorrow saving life and property and need to get some sleep.

[GuestHouse]

Sorry Terry, I don't think you've ever told us how long you spend in Thailand per year, and I have certainly never accused you of being a liar.

If I have you have my sincere apologies.

But please, I don't think its un reasonable to ask for a clarification of "Considerable Amount of Time" where it is being used to establish credability of following statements.

[fruittbatt]

I woud be very interested to hear some facts about Penang island, if anyone out there has lived in the place.

Have looked online for apartments to rent and they seem comparable to provincial Thailand price-wise.

Last time I visited ( decades ago!) the food was great and the beaches OK (just).

There seem to be heaps of apartments there which makes me wonder if it's an expat ghetto or Brit retirement village .

I'm not thinking of leaving Thailand at present, but if things should happen to deteriorate, who knows?

If anyone has info on costs of living, the social scene, medical services, pollution?, the extent of tourism, the up and downsides of living there, I'd be very interested.

Edited October 5, 2006 by fruittbatt

[libya 115]

Laos: Vientienne. Very quiet. Cheap. Boring. Nice beer Lao. Close to border. Friendly people. Electric and water. Language O.K.

Only question is UBC? Yes/No?

[GuestHouse]

Cuba could be good, climate, food, cheap beers and a great health service.

[retirednavyman]

I'd go to India or Nepal. They have everything that Thailand has and less hassle for some things.

The beautiful beaches in the south, the Himalaya, beautiful temples/women etc etc. Some places don't have cheap alcohol but have cheap legal opium and ganja. People are friendlier too, and the food is ten times better.

Hi Neeranam,

I've heard Goa is quite an attractive haven for expats, do you know anything about it?

Thanks

Mike

[ColPyat]

I have no wish to hijack this thread, nor indeed portray The Philippines in a bad light; I have already said I enjoyed my time there.

But aspects of this thread reminded me of that grand old lady of the BKK Post Letter Pages. Edith Clampton (Mrs.).

And let's have none of this nonsense that Edith was a fictional creation... She was real.... A woman with her finger on the pulse of what really matters... standards and the importance of maintaining them.

God, do i miss Edith Clampton (Mrs.)!

Never gonna forget the shitstorm that her fat people in McDonalds letter caused!

Her antics were published in a book as well, here's the link:

http://www.dco.co.th/product_info.php?products_id=41

OK, lets get back to whinging now...

Edited October 5, 2006 by ColPyat

[johnnyk]

Laos: Vientienne. Very quiet. Cheap. Boring. Nice beer Lao. Close to border. Friendly people. Electric and water. Language O.K.

Only question is UBC? Yes/No?

Don't know about UBC buy I when I was there my guesthouse had Thai cable TV and I could watch BBC CNN and even an HBO title fight for free which is normally PPV in North America.