vogie Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Blame America, They started it!Blame Bush and Blair -- THEY started it! Again, please expand on this if you can. WMD ring any bells? Oh right, so you think that Islamic terrorism began in 2003? No, but it didn't help stabilities in the middle east, and I don't think we would have a mass exodus of people fleeing for their lives from the likes of ISIS. But you were arguing "America started it". They didn't start it they just made it much worse and sped up the ultimate goal of all Muslims.The thinking that America is purely to blame for this is how terrorist supporters always justify the most atrocious acts done in the name of Islam. Where did I say America started it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KunMatt Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Blame America, They started it!Blame Bush and Blair -- THEY started it! Again, please expand on this if you can. WMD ring any bells? Oh right, so you think that Islamic terrorism began in 2003? No, but it didn't help stabilities in the middle east, and I don't think we would have a mass exodus of people fleeing for their lives from the likes of ISIS. But you were arguing "America started it". They didn't start it they just made it much worse and sped up the ultimate goal of all Muslims.The thinking that America is purely to blame for this is how terrorist supporters always justify the most atrocious acts done in the name of Islam. Where did I say America started it? Where did I say you did??Look at the post you joined. The OP said "America started it" with which you agreed and defended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 This reminds me very much of when Blair sent the tanks to Heathrow Airport days before a planned anti-war march. Only this time, we are being scared into accepting levels of state spying that would put the Stasi to shame. What would your "solution be" Maybe MI5 and GCHQ should be closed down ? Were the underground bombings not sufficient for you to determine that positive action including "spying" is justified in the interests of maintaining public safety? What level of atrocity are you prepared to accept ? Do you honestly believe the level of intrusion, both legal and illegal, we are faced with is purely to keep us safe? We now see police and government abuses of anti terror laws almost daily yet we as a society blithely accept it because we think that this is necessary to protect us from some vague danger that the government fermented in the first place. Our MPs are spied on, our public figures are spied on, mass data collection on a scale that is truly frightening - and not with just cause, but with impunity. The police already have carte blanche to detain and question individuals under anti terrorism powers without any need to give a reason - there are many examples where individuals have been detained and questioned without cause by the police under these powers. Now the government is seeking to legally suck up every aspect of your electronic life and analyse it at will, interpret it as they see fit. Are you happy to give up your right to privacy so easily? Treatment for Paranoia is available. How big a BANG do you want before supporting sensible security arrangements which include spying and the arrest./detention of suspects? Paranoia? The wilful ignorance of fact is a much more worrying condition, I think. I never said anything about arresting and detaining suspects, but not only is the law as it stands prone to abuse by our government agencies, IT IS BEING ABUSED by our government agencies. And now they want to make it even more pervasive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Blame America, They started it!Blame Bush and Blair -- THEY started it! Again, please expand on this if you can. WMD ring any bells? Oh right, so you think that Islamic terrorism began in 2003? No, but it didn't help stabilities in the middle east, and I don't think we would have a mass exodus of people fleeing for their lives from the likes of ISIS. But you were arguing "America started it". They didn't start it they just made it much worse and sped up the ultimate goal of all Muslims.The thinking that America is purely to blame for this is how terrorist supporters always justify the most atrocious acts done in the name of Islam. Where did I say America started it? Where did I say you did??Look at the post you joined. The OP said "America started it" with which you agreed and defended. My post actually followed "Bush and Blair started it" and yes they certainly made it much worse, much much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Some off-topic posts have been removed. Please stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KunMatt Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Blame America, They started it!Blame Bush and Blair -- THEY started it! Again, please expand on this if you can. WMD ring any bells? Oh right, so you think that Islamic terrorism began in 2003? No, but it didn't help stabilities in the middle east, and I don't think we would have a mass exodus of people fleeing for their lives from the likes of ISIS. But you were arguing "America started it". They didn't start it they just made it much worse and sped up the ultimate goal of all Muslims.The thinking that America is purely to blame for this is how terrorist supporters always justify the most atrocious acts done in the name of Islam. Where did I say America started it? Where did I say you did??Look at the post you joined. The OP said "America started it" with which you agreed and defended. My post actually followed "Bush and Blair started it" and yes they certainly made it much worse, much much worse. 9/11 was before Bush's WMD lies. Muslims were attacking America when Bush was just in power.The 1998 US embassy bombings were well before Bush, and Blair had only been in power for a year.You really think that Bush and Blair started Islamic terrorism? Edited October 29, 2015 by Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuaBS Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Blame America, They started it!Blame Bush and Blair -- THEY started it! Blame god. Which one? All of them. Nothing has held back the development of the human race more than religion. God hates us all! There is no god > the obsession of religion has held back the development of the human race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcosss Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 An alternative view in this article for anyone interested. http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/flawed-prescription-peace-syria-more-war-272837545#sthash.0gDEb4uM.MspyiPDD&st_refDomain=t.co&st_refQuery=/TaFg7ZsrL1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 This reminds me very much of when Blair sent the tanks to Heathrow Airport days before a planned anti-war march. Only this time, we are being scared into accepting levels of state spying that would put the Stasi to shame. One tends to find that those who would set the terrorist threat to zero then swing into action after the bombs have gone off and put the blame on Bush and Blair. A Corbynista broken record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatproblem Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 And the government still lets more in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanlic Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Blame America, They started it!Blame Bush and Blair -- THEY started it! Blame god.Which one? All of them. Nothing has held back the development of the human race more than religion. God hates us all! I blame the producers of Strike Back ever since Scott and Mike were retired security is fookd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoffel45 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Blame America, They started it! Even when it has nothing to do with America - blame America. Modern EU style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjunadawn Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 It is amazing how such a byline can pass as news. Is any regular person out there reading this surprised? Do any of us find this curious or novel? Of course not. As with the hijra/migration jihad sweeping Europe, it is only a matter of time before its fruit too is noted. "...planning mass attack..." is hardly news, its only a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 An off-topic debate will end. This topic is not about the US. One poster has been suspended. Stay on topic please. We do not need to replay the entire events of the ME over and over and over again. It's been discussed ad nauseam in other threads. This is a current situation in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usernames Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 The Islamic State carry out this threat and every muslim in the UK can start fearing for their safety...there are so many muslim only area sprouting up in the area this could be the match to light the powder keg...and WAR in the streets There will never be a war in the streets, because more than half of the British population would come out in the streets to take selfies as they "hugged a jihadi." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glaswegian Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 mair refugees, mair refugees please!! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanlic Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Thats what they said just before William Wallace sacked York...lol . Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 This reminds me very much of when Blair sent the tanks to Heathrow Airport days before a planned anti-war march. Only this time, we are being scared into accepting levels of state spying that would put the Stasi to shame. One tends to find that those who would set the terrorist threat to zero then swing into action after the bombs have gone off and put the blame on Bush and Blair. A Corbynista broken record. Nowhere did I come even close to saying that we should lower our guard against terrorism. What I said was that the government is using the fear of terrorism to justify their snooper's charter. It is not paranoia but fact that mass surveillance has uncovered virutally no evidence of terrorist plots. Mass surveillance does not protect us in any way. It is merely an excuse for our government to further curtail our rights and freedoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsetBkk Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Andrew Parker, director general of the security agency, ... publicly admitted for the first time that MI5 had to carry out computer hacking attacks against terror networks to crack their communications. This is pathetic. I am disgusted that they have only recently started to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickBradford Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 It is amazing how such a byline can pass as news. Is any regular person out there reading this surprised? Do any of us find this curious or novel? Of course not. As with the hijra/migration jihad sweeping Europe, it is only a matter of time before its fruit too is noted. "...planning mass attack..." is hardly news, its only a matter of time. And thus the utopia dreamed of by the infantile do-gooders works out exactly as expected -- 180 degrees opposite to their original narcissistic 'we are the world' fantasies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjunadawn Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 It is amazing how such a byline can pass as news. Is any regular person out there reading this surprised? Do any of us find this curious or novel? Of course not. As with the hijra/migration jihad sweeping Europe, it is only a matter of time before its fruit too is noted. "...planning mass attack..." is hardly news, its only a matter of time. And thus the utopia dreamed of by the infantile do-gooders works out exactly as expected -- 180 degrees opposite to their original narcissistic 'we are the world' fantasies. Those invested with social engineering multiculturalism heavily lean upon the media to bias reporting, sleight of hand data, etc., - to limit the growing sense over recent years that the utopia isn't exactly working out as planned. Some key component seemed to have been lacking in the cultural relativity premise (ah duh!). With the end result so clearly present on the horizon the only reason pols would double-down on multiculturalism madness must be due to some as yet unrealized end game; otherwise, every choice Europe/UK is taking is madness. The same pressures placed upon the media to obfuscate data and err toward political correctness and obscure the real effects of this issue has also been leveraged upon the spy services and law enforcement. This is the political correctness run a muck that is noted on both sides of the pond. When the media misleads its social engineering. When the security apparatus misleads, or is misled, it is madness of a very different caliber. Everything evolving today could have been predicted in a cave years ago without ever reading the news. A particular impending threat by IS et al may be curious, but that such an attack is coming is hardly news. This is, after all, only the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemguy Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Blame America, They started it! Wrong...the Brits and the Europeans started the problems long ago ..long before America ever existed....lol Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjunadawn Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 MODERN ISLAMIC TERRORISM began in response to the Jewish invasion of Palestine, and the ethnic cleansing and GENOCIDE, which continues and is escalating under the new Fuhrer Netanyahu. America still strongly supports this thug, although Obama clearly detests him. I thought that the Israeli people would have more sense than to give him another term in office. This is how the Third Reich began, history repeating itself. Your post is so seriously disjointed from the OP as to appear comedic, like the Viagra emails that slip in between your kid's emails and bank statements- simply... disconnected. It is also a poorly couched construction to stalk jew hatred. One would first have to grasp history to note its repeating qualities; you do not evidence this above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joehawkins Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 The home grown and foreign islamic terrorists have been plotting attacks and an overthrow of the government and monarchy since the 1980's , It has nothing to do with America or Bush , the simple fact is the extremists hate us ( Briton's ) and want our extermination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozyjon Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon4546543 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Ever noticed how many westerners have flocked to Muslim countries? No, perhaps you have noticed how many Muslims are flocking to the west. Ever noticed how many Muslims who come to the west adopt and become citizens of the country? No, perhaps you see as I do that they form enclaves, they preach radicalism, they never condemn jihad. Adolf Hitler got it all wrong. He should have sent millions of Germans to invade countries as so called migrants. Say hello to Sharia Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buji Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Cheers Islam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KunMatt Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Honestly I stopped reading when I got to "imagined". Too bad, and you should read more books. May I suggest, since this is a Thai forum, reading Southeast Asian scholar extraordinaire Benedict Anderson's tidy little masterpiece "Imagined Communities" or the great Thai scholar Achaan Thongchai's acclaimed book "Siam Mapped" to understand better the role of imagination in creating the concept of modern nationhood. On a larger scale, perhaps read Yuval Harari's book "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" to get an inkling of the role of fiction in creating homo sapien culture. You are free to choose who you imagine the disputed lands to belong to because that is what humans do. I'm just not a fan of fiction and seeing how your argument was already leaning towards a fairytale written about what some men had written about a magic man in the sky, well it's kinda hard to imagine all the real world problems and horrifying grief this has caused. Edited October 30, 2015 by Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buji Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 People with Wiki are people without thought....reply thoughts not copy & paste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KunMatt Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I'm just not a fan of fiction and seeing how your argument was already leaning towards a fairytale written about what some men had written about a magic man in the sky, well it's kinda hard to imagine all the real world problems and horrifying grief this has caused.Apparently you are neither a fan of fiction nor non-fiction. And it shows. Bravo. Being condescending on the internet against anonymous strangers must explain something about your personality. Rattling off books you read only adds to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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