Bloodshed continues in occupied West Bank

[Jingthing]

Moral high ground? I don't know what you're talking about now. If terrorists come to stab you, there are consequences. Duh!

Why can't we live and let live?

How am I supposed to answer that juvenile, simplistic, naive question?

The person to ask is the brainwashed Palestinian terrorist who believes the incitement lies of his religious and political leaders telling him that Israel is changing the status quo at the Temple Mount.

Ah back to the old JT.

The moral high ground is not shooting someone with a high calibre rifle who has a knife or not shooting unarmed women or not blowing up their family homes or not returning their bodies etc etc etc. But hey disagree with you and I will be simply an anti semite.

Live and let live is the opposite of the Israeli way. The Israeli method seems to be kill and let kill. That seems to be your answer Carry on with your rants here You obviously have a very set opinion as usual

I didn't call you an anti-semite. Stop projecting. But I see to you it's all about what the Israelis do, and nothing about what the Palestinians do. That gets nowhere.

Don't assume all who defend the right of Israel to exist and defend itself support all the policies and actions of Israel. That is a total crock.

You know, the naive presumption that all Israel has to do is act all warm and fuzzy and instantly this conflict will be magically over is obviously not true.

As I see you want to traffic in provocative exaggerated hyperbole, I think it's best for everyone if I just put you on my ignore list.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

Labour MP Sir Gerald Kaufman has allegedly accused Israel of fabricating some recent stories about knife attacks against Jews in Israel, and claimed the Conservative party is influenced by "Jewish money," in a speech at a pro-Palestine event at Parliament.

The Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-gerald-kaufman-accuses-government-of-being-swayed-by-jewish-money-a6712796.html

News flash. Self hating Jews do exist.

He believes Palestinian propaganda lies verbatim.

Some more background on the atrocious Sir K:

Jewish money. An evening with the PRC, Kaufman and classic antisemitic libels

This isn’t about Israel, this isn’t part of the conflict, this is classic Jewish conspiracy theories, this is NAZI talk. The hidden Jews controlling the world. Jewish money buying permission to kill children. Classic antisemitic libel played out in-public in 2015, politicians present and nobody in the room says a word. I actually felt physically sick. I wasn’t sitting in some dark room in a hidden building in a far away town listening to people whispering amongst themselves, I was sitting on the central estate of one of the greatest democracies on the earth with Westminister Station but 10 meters away.

http://david-collier.com/?p=1336

You have not in any way refuted what he claims, you have simply declared him a self-hating Jew.

As usual, anyone who criticises Israel is antisemite.

[Pakboong]

As a child, I truly believed the American Indian got what he/she deserved. I no longer feel that way. The Palestinian situation is very similar. We still have many of them in refugee camps in some very uninhabitable locations. There are not enough of them left to put up much of a fight.

[vogie]

Moral high ground? I don't know what you're talking about now. If terrorists come to stab you, there are consequences. Duh!

Why can't we live and let live?

How am I supposed to answer that juvenile, simplistic, naive question?

The person to ask is the brainwashed Palestinian terrorist who believes the incitement lies of his religious and political leaders telling him that Israel is changing the status quo at the Temple Mount.

Ah back to the old JT.

The moral high ground is not shooting someone with a high calibre rifle who has a knife or not shooting unarmed women or not blowing up their family homes or not returning their bodies etc etc etc. But hey disagree with you and I will be simply an anti semite.

Live and let live is the opposite of the Israeli way. The Israeli method seems to be kill and let kill. That seems to be your answer Carry on with your rants here You obviously have a very set opinion as usual

I didn't call you an anti-semite. Stop projecting. But I see to you it's all about what the Israelis do, and nothing about what the Palestinians do. That gets nowhere.

Don't assume all who defend the right of Israel to exist and defend itself support all the policies and actions of Israel. That is a total crock.

You know, the naive presumption that all Israel has to do is act all warm and fuzzy and instantly this conflict will be magically over is obviously not true.

As I see you want to traffic in provocative exaggerated hyperbole, I think it's best for everyone if I just put you on my ignore list.

I have agreed with you on a lot of posts jt, but this topic no, but what I have found with you is that if someone doesn't agree with you they go on your ignore list. Don't you think its like throwing your teddy out of the cot, its childish and totally unecessary. Your ignore list must be as long as my arm, have I aspired to your 'hate list now'?

[Pakboong]

Moral high ground? I don't know what you're talking about now. If terrorists come to stab you, there are consequences. Duh!

Why can't we live and let live?

How am I supposed to answer that juvenile, simplistic, naive question?

The person to ask is the brainwashed Palestinian terrorist who believes the incitement lies of his religious and political leaders telling him that Israel is changing the status quo at the Temple Mount.

Ah back to the old JT.

The moral high ground is not shooting someone with a high calibre rifle who has a knife or not shooting unarmed women or not blowing up their family homes or not returning their bodies etc etc etc. But hey disagree with you and I will be simply an anti semite.

Live and let live is the opposite of the Israeli way. The Israeli method seems to be kill and let kill. That seems to be your answer Carry on with your rants here You obviously have a very set opinion as usual

I didn't call you an anti-semite. Stop projecting. But I see to you it's all about what the Israelis do, and nothing about what the Palestinians do. That gets nowhere.

Don't assume all who defend the right of Israel to exist and defend itself support all the policies and actions of Israel. That is a total crock.

You know, the naive presumption that all Israel has to do is act all warm and fuzzy and instantly this conflict will be magically over is obviously not true.

As I see you want to traffic in provocative exaggerated hyperbole, I think it's best for everyone if I just put you on my ignore list.

I have agreed with you on a lot of posts jt, but this topic no, but what I have found with you is that if someone doesn't agree with you they go on your ignore list. Don't you think its like throwing your teddy out of the cot, its childish and totally unecessary. Your ignore list must be as long as my arm, have I aspired to your 'hate list now'?

You would think we have evolved enough to be able to hate a "point of view" without hating a person or a category of people but apparently, we have not quite made it.

[HenryB]

Why won't the occupiers allow for UN peacekeepers to attempt to stop the violence?

They don't want credible witnesses.

According to Sir Gerald Kaufman, a Jew and a British Member of Parliament, around half of the recent reports of Palestinian knife attacks are fabricated.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-gerald-kaufman-accuses-government-of-being-swayed-by-jewish-money-a6712796.html

It is well know he has a Boy Friend who is 22 years old and is a Muslim

Since he is Cheap Charlie to say this BS is cheaper then giving money

Edited October 31, 2015 by HenryB

[Seastallion]

Why won't the occupiers allow for UN peacekeepers to attempt to stop the violence?

They don't want credible witnesses.

According to Sir Gerald Kaufman, a Jew and a British Member of Parliament, around half of the recent reports of Palestinian knife attacks are fabricated.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-gerald-kaufman-accuses-government-of-being-swayed-by-jewish-money-a6712796.html

It is well know he has a Boy Friend who is 22 years old and is a Muslim

Since he is Cheap Charlie to say this BS is cheaper then giving money

Your points, 1. that he has a BF, 2. that the BF is 22, and 3. that the BF is Muslim, all mean what exactly and how do those points relate to what his claims are?

Are you suggesting gay Jews tell lies? Are you suggesting that since his BF is a lot younger than him that he must be evil? Are you suggesting that a Jew that partners with a Muslim is untrustworthy?

What is your point?

Edited October 31, 2015 by Seastallion

[Seastallion]

Why won't the occupiers allow for UN peacekeepers to attempt to stop the violence?

They don't want credible witnesses.

According to Sir Gerald Kaufman, a Jew and a British Member of Parliament, around half of the recent reports of Palestinian knife attacks are fabricated.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-gerald-kaufman-accuses-government-of-being-swayed-by-jewish-money-a6712796.html

It is well know he has a Boy Friend who is 22 years old and is a Muslim

Since he is Cheap Charlie to say this BS is cheaper then giving money

And your last sentence...would that be an antisemite slur on Jewish frugality?

Shame on you.

[Seastallion]

As a child, I truly believed the American Indian got what he/she deserved. I no longer feel that way. The Palestinian situation is very similar. We still have many of them in refugee camps in some very uninhabitable locations. There are not enough of them left to put up much of a fight.

Yep, it was always "the injuns" that were the villains when I was a kid. Goodies and baddies, cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians.

We do tend to unthinkingly accept the narrative that we are fed.

The Native American scenario is a very good parallel. Indigenous people over-run by powerful colonists, and the colonists, in the vein of "to the victor goes the right to write history", demonise those that they conquered.

[Jingthing]

Why won't the occupiers allow for UN peacekeepers to attempt to stop the violence?

They don't want credible witnesses.

According to Sir Gerald Kaufman, a Jew and a British Member of Parliament, around half of the recent reports of Palestinian knife attacks are fabricated.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-gerald-kaufman-accuses-government-of-being-swayed-by-jewish-money-a6712796.html

It is well know he has a Boy Friend who is 22 years old and is a Muslim

Since he is Cheap Charlie to say this BS is cheaper then giving money

Is that the case? I don't really care about his personal life but if such a couple tried to move to Gaza under HAMAS or indeed many of the world's nations that are dominated by Islamic fundamentalism as an out gay couple without even one half being a Jew, though obviously with his "Jew money" rhetoric without a doubt a self hating Jew, they would have issues staying alive very long.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

As a child, I truly believed the American Indian got what he/she deserved. I no longer feel that way. The Palestinian situation is very similar. We still have many of them in refugee camps in some very uninhabitable locations. There are not enough of them left to put up much of a fight.

I think population stats demonstrate what nonsense that is, a wall of money from the E.U, U.S and various NGOs have led to a booming Palestinian population.

P.s I find the 'concern' for Palestinians somewhat selective as you could hear a pin drop listening for protests on behalf of the 2900 Palestinians killed in Syria from some of our esteemed members.

[HenryB]

Why won't the occupiers allow for UN peacekeepers to attempt to stop the violence?

They don't want credible witnesses.

According to Sir Gerald Kaufman, a Jew and a British Member of Parliament, around half of the recent reports of Palestinian knife attacks are fabricated.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-gerald-kaufman-accuses-government-of-being-swayed-by-jewish-money-a6712796.html

It is well know he has a Boy Friend who is 22 years old and is a Muslim

Since he is Cheap Charlie to say this BS is cheaper then giving money

Your points, 1. that he has a BF, 2. that the BF is 22, and 3. that the BF is Muslim, all mean what exactly and how do those points relate to what his claims are?

Are you suggesting gay Jews tell lies? Are you suggesting that since his BF is a lot younger than him that he must be evil? Are you suggesting that a Jew that partners with a Muslim is untrustworthy?

What is your point?

I said he is doing this to make his gay lover happy He is thinking with thing between his legs. He is old 76 years old and wants his Bf not to cheat on him.

Like a Farang buying a house for his GF This cost no money

I am giving you the facts nothing more

[HenryB]

As a child, I truly believed the American Indian got what he/she deserved. I no longer feel that way. The Palestinian situation is very similar. We still have many of them in refugee camps in some very uninhabitable locations. There are not enough of them left to put up much of a fight.

I think population stats demonstrate what nonsense that is, a wall of money from the E.U, U.S and various NGOs have led to a booming Palestinian population.

P.s I find the 'concern' for Palestinians somewhat selective as you could hear a pin drop listening for protests on behalf of the 2900 Palestinians killed in Syria from some of our esteemed members.

You are right these people go nuts over about 100 killed by Israel but million killed by other Muslems and others nothing

[Jingthing]

As a child, I truly believed the American Indian got what he/she deserved. I no longer feel that way. The Palestinian situation is very similar. We still have many of them in refugee camps in some very uninhabitable locations. There are not enough of them left to put up much of a fight.

I think population stats demonstrate what nonsense that is, a wall of money from the E.U, U.S and various NGOs have led to a booming Palestinian population.

P.s I find the 'concern' for Palestinians somewhat selective as you could hear a pin drop listening for protests on behalf of the 2900 Palestinians killed in Syria from some of our esteemed members.

You are right these people go nuts over about 100 killed by Israel but million killed by other Muslems and others nothing

That's why I call it obsessive Israel demonization. Something stinks and stinks badly about it ... is it a coincidence that Israel is the one and only state in the world with a majority Jewish population and that is the one country that attracts the absurdly unbalanced attention of the obsessive Israel demonization agenda? Is the Pope Catholic?

Normal criticism is one thing, of course, as people would normally do against any nation that has flaws as all have flaws. But obsessive and unbalanced Israel demonization is anything but normal.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Jingthing

[hugh2121]

Simple solution is for Palestinians to stop trying to kill Jews. Then Israel would not have anything to retaliate over. Israel is perfectly willing to live in peace if it's neighbours would cease trying to completely destroy their homeland and kill all the Jews. Crying because you started a fight and finished with a bloody nose doesn't wash.

Nobody mentions J K Rowling's lunatic raving on TV so I will. It's just what one would expect from a writer of fantasy fiction.

Simple solution is for Israel to follow Oslo agreement, accept a two state solution and stop the illegal occupation of Palestine, and there is no longer resistance against the fascist Israeli necessary.

Israel's occupation of it's land is quite legal. It was attacked without war being declared and kicked the <deleted> of the aggressors. Any land lost by the aggressors was forfeited due to their aggressive attack on the Jewish state. Make no mistake, this is not about Palestine and Israel, it is about the muslim desire to kill ALL Jews and destroy all their holy places. Israel's actions have all been in order to secure their security and in retaliation for atrocities against their people.

This would also gain the support of other muslim states as their stated intention is for the entire planet to be governed by islam.

[konying]

"I am proud, not sad," she said, a button with her son's photo pinned to her chest.

That statement says it all.

[Seastallion]

Why won't the occupiers allow for UN peacekeepers to attempt to stop the violence?

They don't want credible witnesses.

According to Sir Gerald Kaufman, a Jew and a British Member of Parliament, around half of the recent reports of Palestinian knife attacks are fabricated.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-gerald-kaufman-accuses-government-of-being-swayed-by-jewish-money-a6712796.html

It is well know he has a Boy Friend who is 22 years old and is a Muslim

Since he is Cheap Charlie to say this BS is cheaper then giving money

Is that the case? I don't really care about his personal life but if such a couple tried to move to Gaza under HAMAS or indeed many of the world's nations that are dominated by Islamic fundamentalism as an out gay couple without even one half being a Jew, though obviously with his "Jew money" rhetoric without a doubt a self hating Jew, they would have issues staying alive very long.

If such a couple tried to move to Nigeria they wouldn't live long...what's your point? That Israel thus has a right to colonise Nigeria?

[Seastallion]

They don't want credible witnesses.

According to Sir Gerald Kaufman, a Jew and a British Member of Parliament, around half of the recent reports of Palestinian knife attacks are fabricated.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-gerald-kaufman-accuses-government-of-being-swayed-by-jewish-money-a6712796.html

It is well know he has a Boy Friend who is 22 years old and is a Muslim

Since he is Cheap Charlie to say this BS is cheaper then giving money

Your points, 1. that he has a BF, 2. that the BF is 22, and 3. that the BF is Muslim, all mean what exactly and how do those points relate to what his claims are?

Are you suggesting gay Jews tell lies? Are you suggesting that since his BF is a lot younger than him that he must be evil? Are you suggesting that a Jew that partners with a Muslim is untrustworthy?

What is your point?

I said he is doing this to make his gay lover happy He is thinking with thing between his legs. He is old 76 years old and wants his Bf not to cheat on him.

Like a Farang buying a house for his GF This cost no money

I am giving you the facts nothing more

No, you're giving a homophobic opinion.

[Seastallion]

As a child, I truly believed the American Indian got what he/she deserved. I no longer feel that way. The Palestinian situation is very similar. We still have many of them in refugee camps in some very uninhabitable locations. There are not enough of them left to put up much of a fight.

I think population stats demonstrate what nonsense that is, a wall of money from the E.U, U.S and various NGOs have led to a booming Palestinian population.

P.s I find the 'concern' for Palestinians somewhat selective as you could hear a pin drop listening for protests on behalf of the 2900 Palestinians killed in Syria from some of our esteemed members.

You are right these people go nuts over about 100 killed by Israel but million killed by other Muslems and others nothing

No he's wrong and so are you...and besides, Syria is off-topic.

[Seastallion]

As a child, I truly believed the American Indian got what he/she deserved. I no longer feel that way. The Palestinian situation is very similar. We still have many of them in refugee camps in some very uninhabitable locations. There are not enough of them left to put up much of a fight.

I think population stats demonstrate what nonsense that is, a wall of money from the E.U, U.S and various NGOs have led to a booming Palestinian population.

P.s I find the 'concern' for Palestinians somewhat selective as you could hear a pin drop listening for protests on behalf of the 2900 Palestinians killed in Syria from some of our esteemed members.

You are right these people go nuts over about 100 killed by Israel but million killed by other Muslems and others nothing

That's why I call it obsessive Israel demonization. Something stinks and stinks badly about it ... is it a coincidence that Israel is the one and only state in the world with a majority Jewish population and that is the one country that attracts the absurdly unbalanced attention of the obsessive Israel demonization agenda? Is the Pope Catholic?

Normal criticism is one thing, of course, as people would normally do against any nation that has flaws as all have flaws. But obsessive and unbalanced Israel demonization is anything but normal.

Rubbish and disingenuous. You are THE FIRST person to cry "of topic" if someone mentions anything critical of Israel that is not related to the OP. How about accepting that Syria etc are off-topic also, and in so accepting, reduce your antisemite-paranoia.

[Jingthing]

Simple solution is for Palestinians to stop trying to kill Jews. Then Israel would not have anything to retaliate over. Israel is perfectly willing to live in peace if it's neighbours would cease trying to completely destroy their homeland and kill all the Jews. Crying because you started a fight and finished with a bloody nose doesn't wash.

Nobody mentions J K Rowling's lunatic raving on TV so I will. It's just what one would expect from a writer of fantasy fiction.

Simple solution is for Israel to follow Oslo agreement, accept a two state solution and stop the illegal occupation of Palestine, and there is no longer resistance against the fascist Israeli necessary.

Israel's occupation of it's land is quite legal. It was attacked without war being declared and kicked the <deleted> of the aggressors. Any land lost by the aggressors was forfeited due to their aggressive attack on the Jewish state. Make no mistake, this is not about Palestine and Israel, it is about the muslim desire to kill ALL Jews and destroy all their holy places. Israel's actions have all been in order to secure their security and in retaliation for atrocities against their people.

This would also gain the support of other muslim states as their stated intention is for the entire planet to be governed by islam.

Well, I don't think all Muslims want to kill all Jews, but ENOUGH of them do, sadly, that Israel really has no choice but to be hard core in order to continue to survive and thrive in that VERY ROUGH region. Of course I support a two state solution, but right now there is not the political will and leadership on EITHER side for that to begin to happen, and it needs that from BOTH sides.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

...

This would also gain the support of other muslim states as their stated intention is for the entire planet to be governed by islam.

Again, not all.

But to those who think Jews are paranoid, they are totally wrong.

Paranoia is imagining people want to kill you.

When they really do, it becomes REALISM.

From Egypt, another supposedly more "friendly" neighbor of the State of Israel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdGmCfGBnvk&feature=youtu.be

Islamic history professor Yusri Ahmad Zidan presents his version of Jewish history during a show on Egyptian TV channel Al-Rahma on October 27, 2015, according to watchdog group MEMRI.

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Police has been removed. Please don't quote over 3 sentences and a link to the source.

[RockyBeerbelly]

Simple solution is for Palestinians to stop trying to kill Jews. Then Israel would not have anything to retaliate over. Israel is perfectly willing to live in peace if it's neighbours would cease trying to completely destroy their homeland and kill all the Jews. Crying because you started a fight and finished with a bloody nose doesn't wash.

Nobody mentions J K Rowling's lunatic raving on TV so I will. It's just what one would expect from a writer of fantasy fiction.

Simple solution is for Israel to follow Oslo agreement, accept a two state solution and stop the illegal occupation of Palestine, and there is no longer resistance against the fascist Israeli necessary.

Israel's occupation of it's land is quite legal. It was attacked without war being declared and kicked the <deleted> of the aggressors. Any land lost by the aggressors was forfeited due to their aggressive attack on the Jewish state. Make no mistake, this is not about Palestine and Israel, it is about the muslim desire to kill ALL Jews and destroy all their holy places. Israel's actions have all been in order to secure their security and in retaliation for atrocities against their people.

This would also gain the support of other muslim states as their stated intention is for the entire planet to be governed by islam.

Said as a true and proud Islamophobe. I bet you dont even care about Israel really, its all about your hatred for Muslim.

The fact that YOU find it "quite legal" for Israel to have confiscated Palestinian land after a war, doesn't make it legal though. The UN definitely doesnt think it is, and I bet you dont think it legal that Crimea has been confiscated by Russia, or do you?

[Morch]

Shaul, the former soldier and co-founder of Breaking The Silence, a group that collects testimony from army veterans about abuses by troops in the Palestinian territories, said nothing justifies deadly Palestinian attacks, but that public debate in Israel lacks context.

"Anyone who does not understand that the word occupation needs to be at the beginning, middle and end of every sentence (about the current situation) is lying to himself and to the Israeli public," he said.

Its so liberating to read a comment from "Breaking The Silence" for once. If only the TV members who so strongly and openly support the fascist policies of the Likud party would take the time to listen to these people who experienced the atrocities of the Israeli gestapo first hand, their views might change over night (that is if these TV members are really supportive of Israel and not just Islam hating racists, as many of them here are of course). Unfortunately most of the Nethanyahu lovers have their heads so far op their arse that they ignore any news outside the Fox headlines and whipe away the truth with yelling "Leftish-liberal blatant lies"

As far as I am aware, Breaking the Silence does not habitually equate IDF actions with the Nazis. That you do, indicates no real wish to change posters views, but rather enhances the feeling that it simply serves to bash Israel. To the best of my knowledge, several cases of activists advocating similar views led to a parting of ways with Breaking the Silence. The "first hand" nature of the information stems from service with the IDF - worth mentioning that most activists and witnesses did not disobey orders nor did they quit the service. Breaking the Silence does not call for Israelis to avoid or dodge military service, its mission more along the lines of reform. Note that quoted part where it says "nothing justifies deadly Palestinian attacks"?

Without taking away from the important, and often ungrateful, role Breaking the Silence plays - there is no reason to treat all of the information presented as gospel. It is not the case that all of the claims and testimonials were proven and verified. Like any NGO on a mission, they have their own biases and faults.

That the occupation corrupts and erodes morality is a given. It does not mean that each and every IDF soldier and every Israeli (yes, even if they voted for Netanyahu) is a monster. Also, not anyone refusing your views is necessarily a "Netanyahu lover".

How does Breaking the Silence data compare with the total volume of IDF activity? Or, for that matter, with similar reports covering other armed forces?

How many Palestinian organizations cover Palestinian violence with a critical set of mind?

[Morch]

Since the latest wave began on October 1, at least 62 Palestinians have been shot dead by Israelis in the West Bank and in Gaza. Of those, 35 were assailants armed mainly with knives and in some cases with guns, Israel has said. Many were teenagers.

Eleven Israelis have been killed in stabbings and shootings.

The kill ratio of 5*63 Palestinian deaths as opposed to 0*177 Israelis deaths is indeed a very potent indicator of the brutality and the terrorist tactic activities employed by some members of the I.D.F.

The blatant brutality and terrorism is on show for the to the whole world to see, yet the blind apologists for the Zionist Likud regime refuse to open their eyes to the truth.

Any peace move no matter where it may spring from is a step in the right direction which will hopefully bring peace to the area, all involved have to bend in the wind.

The Zionist need to come to realise and understand that in time their actions will come back to them with a vengeance if they will not or do not sit down and talk and follow and implement the agreement recommendations, that also applies to the Palestinians too. Do not.Ignore the outstanding list from the U.N. nor any recommendations that may be made.

The wailing and the gnashing of teeth concerning the claimed sufferings of the Jews over the years has been and still is never ending,

Why don't those in power now query why such situations arose?

Perhaps the behavior pattern of those people in the time past and even now as we read this forum brought on the calamities that they claim have befallen them then and even now.

How do kill rations, with or without the usual figure spins, apply to attributing traits? This is not a Hollywood Wild West duel or a medieval jousting tournament. There is no "acceptable" ratio. How is it indicative of "terrorist tactic"? Do Palestinian attackers merit special consideration? Are not their own attacks a "terrorist tactic" by itself? If the figures are indicative of anything it bears more on the futility of Palestinian resistance through violent means.

The wailing and the gnashing of teeth concerning the claimed sufferings of the Jews over the years has been and still is never ending,

Why don't those in power now query why such situations arose?

Perhaps the behavior pattern of those people in the time past and even now as we read this forum brought on the calamities that they claim have befallen them then and even now.

This was not mentioned in either OP, but rather something imposed on the topic by you. Straw man much?

Got to love this preemptive approach - raise up an argument no one made, while implying it is not valid ("claimed suffering"), and switch the onus to the supposed other party. Then cry foul over "victim card" and such. Shifty Rhetoric 101.

The reference to "those people" and their "behavior pattern.... the time past and even now", is dully noted. Can't wait until the "this is about being anti-Israel!" faux indignation cries come up. But then again, these are the same posters who never see anything remotely antisemitic on these forums.

[Morch]

Simple solution is for Palestinians to stop trying to kill Jews. Then Israel would not have anything to retaliate over. Israel is perfectly willing to live in peace if it's neighbours would cease trying to completely destroy their homeland and kill all the Jews. Crying because you started a fight and finished with a bloody nose doesn't wash.

Nobody mentions J K Rowling's lunatic raving on TV so I will. It's just what one would expect from a writer of fantasy fiction.

Israel, inasmuch as it is represented by its current government, is not "perfectly willing to live in peace...etc.". At most, it can be said to be willing to accept "a peace" - the definition of which falls short of what the Palestinians wish for or what is generally considered to be adequate.

[Steely Dan]

Simple solution is for Palestinians to stop trying to kill Jews. Then Israel would not have anything to retaliate over. Israel is perfectly willing to live in peace if it's neighbours would cease trying to completely destroy their homeland and kill all the Jews. Crying because you started a fight and finished with a bloody nose doesn't wash.

Nobody mentions J K Rowling's lunatic raving on TV so I will. It's just what one would expect from a writer of fantasy fiction.

Israel, inasmuch as it is represented by its current government, is not "perfectly willing to live in peace...etc.". At most, it can be said to be willing to accept "a peace" - the definition of which falls short of what the Palestinians wish for or what is generally considered to be adequate.

Are you privy to official Likud policy on the matter of a peace settlement? I would observe that no Israeli government of any party has ever made an offer acceptable to the Palestinians, even the unilateral withdrawal (by Sharon) met with yet more violence. I put it to you that inter-party squabbling within Israel should perhaps take a back seat whilst getting to grips with the obviously deliberate Palestinian rejectionism.

[dexterm]

Shaul, the former soldier and co-founder of Breaking The Silence, a group that collects testimony from army veterans about abuses by troops in the Palestinian territories, said nothing justifies deadly Palestinian attacks, but that public debate in Israel lacks context.

"Anyone who does not understand that the word occupation needs to be at the beginning, middle and end of every sentence (about the current situation) is lying to himself and to the Israeli public," he said.

Its so liberating to read a comment from "Breaking The Silence" for once. If only the TV members who so strongly and openly support the fascist policies of the Likud party would take the time to listen to these people who experienced the atrocities of the Israeli gestapo first hand, their views might change over night (that is if these TV members are really supportive of Israel and not just Islam hating racists, as many of them here are of course). Unfortunately most of the Nethanyahu lovers have their heads so far op their arse that they ignore any news outside the Fox headlines and whipe away the truth with yelling "Leftish-liberal blatant lies"

As far as I am aware, Breaking the Silence does not habitually equate IDF actions with the Nazis. That you do, indicates no real wish to change posters views, but rather enhances the feeling that it simply serves to bash Israel. To the best of my knowledge, several cases of activists advocating similar views led to a parting of ways with Breaking the Silence. The "first hand" nature of the information stems from service with the IDF - worth mentioning that most activists and witnesses did not disobey orders nor did they quit the service. Breaking the Silence does not call for Israelis to avoid or dodge military service, its mission more along the lines of reform. Note that quoted part where it says "nothing justifies deadly Palestinian attacks"?

Without taking away from the important, and often ungrateful, role Breaking the Silence plays - there is no reason to treat all of the information presented as gospel. It is not the case that all of the claims and testimonials were proven and verified. Like any NGO on a mission, they have their own biases and faults.

That the occupation corrupts and erodes morality is a given. It does not mean that each and every IDF soldier and every Israeli (yes, even if they voted for Netanyahu) is a monster. Also, not anyone refusing your views is necessarily a "Netanyahu lover".

How does Breaking the Silence data compare with the total volume of IDF activity? Or, for that matter, with similar reports covering other armed forces?

How many Palestinian organizations cover Palestinian violence with a critical set of mind?

Apart from your usual whitewashing or greywashing without posting any links, Breaking the Silence testimonials certainly give lie to the propaganda boast that the IDF is the most moral army in the world.

And research such as Israeli activist Mairav Zonszein of +972 magazine shows that less than 2% of complaints against IDF and price tag Jewish terrorists result in investigations.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/israel-attacks-151019172000409.html

Incidents like these on the West Bank;

A Palestinain girl shot while her hands were in the air.

https://www.facebook.com/IsraelWC/videos/888831284541027/

If the surrounding heavily armed soldiers/police several feet away really did feel their lives were at risk, wouldn't it make more sense to tazer the woman?

And, the 17-year-old Palestinian schoolgirl in Hebron killed last week who had already passed through 2 checkpoints where sensitive scanners would have picked up metal objects.

She was challenged by a soldier 'Where's your knife?' She yelled back: 'I don't have a knife.'

"Soldiers then fired between her feet and the terrified girl leapt backwards. She raised her hands in the air and repeated, “I do not have a knife.” Then, according to the witness, the soldiers fired about seven or eight bullets at her."

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/charlotte-silver/schoolgirl-executed-israeli-soldiers

Amnesty International said hers is one of several cases it is investigating in which Palestinians have been unlawfully killed by the IDF when they posed no imminent risk to life.

In that the IDF cannot be trusted to investigate themselves, why don't they use CCTV at checkpoints and/or Israeli soldiers wear body/helmet cams as police do in many countries and soldiers in Afghanistan. Photos after she was shot dead showing a knife were plentiful,.How about footage before she was killed?

It would certainly calm tensions where disputed accounts occur, and we might even get to the truth. Extrajudicial killings are simply fanning the flames of the conflict.

Edited November 1, 2015 by dexterm

[Morch]

Simple solution is for Palestinians to stop trying to kill Jews. Then Israel would not have anything to retaliate over. Israel is perfectly willing to live in peace if it's neighbours would cease trying to completely destroy their homeland and kill all the Jews. Crying because you started a fight and finished with a bloody nose doesn't wash.

Nobody mentions J K Rowling's lunatic raving on TV so I will. It's just what one would expect from a writer of fantasy fiction.

Israel, inasmuch as it is represented by its current government, is not "perfectly willing to live in peace...etc.". At most, it can be said to be willing to accept "a peace" - the definition of which falls short of what the Palestinians wish for or what is generally considered to be adequate.

Are you privy to official Likud policy on the matter of a peace settlement? I would observe that no Israeli government of any party has ever made an offer acceptable to the Palestinians, even the unilateral withdrawal (by Sharon) met with yet more violence. I put it to you that inter-party squabbling within Israel should perhaps take a back seat whilst getting to grips with the obviously deliberate Palestinian rejectionism.

There is no "official Likud policy" on the matter of a peace settlement, which is part of the problem. The positions of current office holders are pretty clear with regard to what they do not agree to. This is not a matter of being privy to anything, most of it on record.

For better or worse, right wing oriented coalitions led Israel for much of its recent history. Pointing out that were gaps between the positions of any Israeli government and those of the Palestinians is a given. The question is more to do with the possibility of bridging these gaps. With Center/left notions of peace it could prove difficult, but not impossible. When it comes to current right wing formulations, impossible seems generous.

The unilateral move by Sharon's government was not coordinated with the Palestinian leadership. Not saying that it would not have resulted in violence anyway, but some of the effects it had on Israeli-Palestinian relationships could have been mitigated.

The Palestinian "rejectionism" is a mirror image of the Israeli side. Leaderships simply not up to making hard decisions, and are overly invested in domestic politics.