jayboy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Unfair to group Ukraine with Egypt and Thailand if the Fragile States Index is anything to go by (www.fsi.fundforpeace.org). Love the subtle reference to WWII. I think it is quite factual to say Thailand was never a colony of any western power, but, by some measurements, Thailand's /Siam's relationships with Burma/Myanmar and Japan could be interpreted as a form of colonisation. By some measurements the willingness of France and Britain to permit Siam to exist as a buffer state was a form of colonisation.It would have been difficult for Siam to act independently in foreign policy and bits and pieces were hacked off it when it suited Britain or France to do so. Furthermore foreign experts were in charge of most key agencies eg finance,railways etc.It suited the colonial powers to deal with a native monarchy and aristocracy as they did in Malaya. Having said that Siam benefited immensely from its intelligent and astute rulers, outstanding monarchs who deserve to be honoured.But for them it's difficult to see how Siam could have retained any independence . I love the response of one of these monarchs to a proselytising Christian missionary. "What you teach us to behave is admit arable.What you teach us to believe is foolish". But it's unhistorical to pretend Siam was ever truly independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigermoth Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Unfair to group Ukraine with Egypt and Thailand if the Fragile States Index is anything to go by (www.fsi.fundforpeace.org). Love the subtle reference to WWII. I think it is quite factual to say Thailand was never a colony of any western power, but, by some measurements, Thailand's /Siam's relationships with Burma/Myanmar and Japan could be interpreted as a form of colonisation. Thailand was an allie of Japan during ww 2 and Japanese bases were established here. Bangkok was bombed on many occassions by the British in Burms, therefore it was technically occupied by the Japanese. Thailand did not have an active fighting force then so took no part in Japanese operations except to give them logistical support. There was a Thai underground which harassed the Japanese but not to any great affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandadavid Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Bla Bla we all know his trying hold onto power We not dumb I suppose where not Thai Eventually he must give election dates and healing a country is not done by one man surely. I see SUPERMAN movies and even he has human input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandadavid Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 A almost native Roadmaps Hubs and hey please don't think to much ok Talking blaaaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Just diplomatic waffle. Means nothing. I agree just a stroking of egos. An ambassadorial job is the way a government has to say thank you for being a faithful party hack. Try and get these bozo's to help you. Their favorite message is "Your in a foreign country you must abide by their rules" which we already know. Its just another way to say your on your own don't count on us for nothing. The discussion on the TPP was a joke its just another venture to make more money for big business create jobs yeah sure low paying no benefits government controlled workers what a farce. The pollution part is ignored. There are so many parts of these deals that are unenforceable unless damage is being done to big businesses then its off to the courts what a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The guy's only doing his job, being a diplomat. Would you want that job? NO ! No it takes to much time kissing that part of the body that is round and attached to your bottom. Like all things political pungent whiffs of gas are periodically emitted that are odious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbalEd Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 His replies were very toned down, I suppose its all about money before people again. It's called diplomacy. He's the ambassador, don't you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbalEd Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The USA basically want 2 things from Thailand : free access for American business to Thai resources (especially oil) and a friendly, non-muslim ally in a strategically important position in the world. Which means they would rather have Thaksin back. He will sell them anything as long as he has a finger in the pie. By contrast, Prayuth is fiercely patriotic and would like to kick all foreigners out if he could. He is not good news for American business. They don't give a flying about anything else. You can be sure they know exactly who is behind all the violence and are willing to turn a blind eye to get the result they want. The careful diplomatic talk by the new Ambassador is very interesting if you think a little about his choice of words and the things he avoids saying. I'm a big supporter of the USA because unlike Russia or China they will at least try to do the right thing if they can as part of their bigger picture, but I have no illusions about their cold blooded ruthlessness if needed. Thai oil??? Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) The USA basically want 2 things from Thailand : free access for American business to Thai resources (especially oil) and a friendly, non-muslim ally in a strategically important position in the world. Which means they would rather have Thaksin back. He will sell them anything as long as he has a finger in the pie. By contrast, Prayuth is fiercely patriotic and would like to kick all foreigners out if he could. He is not good news for American business. They don't give a flying about anything else. You can be sure they know exactly who is behind all the violence and are willing to turn a blind eye to get the result they want. The careful diplomatic talk by the new Ambassador is very interesting if you think a little about his choice of words and the things he avoids saying. I'm a big supporter of the USA because unlike Russia or China they will at least try to do the right thing if they can as part of their bigger picture, but I have no illusions about their cold blooded ruthlessness if needed. Wow. I did not know that "according to you" Prayuth wants to kick out all foreigners. I think there will be some pretty negative consequences with that. Are your certain of this? Otherwise..you might get picked up for causing mass panic....as tourism is a major employer here. Best not to spread untruths..in his name. You might even receive an "invitation" for this. Edited October 31, 2015 by slipperylobster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) His replies were very toned down, I suppose its all about money before people again.It's called diplomacy. He's the ambassador, don't you know? Yes! The ambassador working for big business. Edited October 31, 2015 by Hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seligne2 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I was under the impression that not "revering" kings was an underlying reason for the American revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Kubasa Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 He, my, ( American Ambassador),does significant apologizing, not unlike boss OBama, and should have said " Expectations are high but TOO high only for Thailand " ! Following same agenda as when Amassador to N. Korea talk much, say nothing ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LomSak27 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 English John Posted "The USA basically want 2 things from Thailand : free access for American business to Thai resources (especially oil) and a friendly, non-muslim ally in a strategically important position in the world. Yo John, Thailand has diddly squat in the oil department. It's military base line has been set to the east of the PI in US Pacific territories. They will hold on to basis in Okinawa as long as possible but that has been US policy, oh since the Reagan administration in the 1980; that's 30 years now Sorry to rain on your Conspiracy parade. Time to leave the pub and join the real world. Although yes this does sound disturbingly like a nationalistic rant from say The Nation or Land Destroyer uh er, got a second job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calach Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Guilty of having very high expectations of Thailand, but also Korea, Philippines, Vietnam, Lebanon, Yougoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc... so far it has been wonderful parenting. Edited October 31, 2015 by Calach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muirton Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Thailand - on the way up. USA - on the way down. Expectations will meet in the middle. "USA - on the way down." Sez who -- besides your brilliant self? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muirton Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The USA basically want 2 things from Thailand : free access for American business to Thai resources (especially oil) and a friendly, non-muslim ally in a strategically important position in the world. Which means they would rather have Thaksin back. He will sell them anything as long as he has a finger in the pie. By contrast, Prayuth is fiercely patriotic and would like to kick all foreigners out if he could. He is not good news for American business. They don't give a flying about anything else. You can be sure they know exactly who is behind all the violence and are willing to turn a blind eye to get the result they want. The careful diplomatic talk by the new Ambassador is very interesting if you think a little about his choice of words and the things he avoids saying. I'm a big supporter of the USA because unlike Russia or China they will at least try to do the right thing if they can as part of their bigger picture, but I have no illusions about their cold blooded ruthlessness if needed. "Thai resources (especially oil)". This is loony. There has never been a day when Thailand wasn't an energy importer. What is the source -- cite/site -- for your "fact" that the US wants Thailand's oil when Thailand doesn't have any compared to Burma and Cambodia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yann55 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Thailand has also very high expectations of itself but without allowing anyone to question itself or criticize. The country wants to join the club (UN) but not abide by the rules (having free democratic elections) It also wants all the benefits (just like the fishing farce with the EU) but without abiding to the laws and practices. The ambassador will quickly realise. Yeah, well, the problem is that a large majority of Westerners, including (obviously) members of the so-called 'diplomatic' corps don't just 'question' and/or 'criticize'. What they do, mostly, is patronize. TVF is a brilliant sample of that. Apparently, most of my fellow Westerners know better what is good for a country which is not theirs, where they were not born, whose language most of them do not master, but a country they chose to live in nonetheless, regardless of these inumerable flaws which would so easily be solved if only the Thais would listen to our friendly advice about everything. When it comes to political systems, have we achieved such a high level of democracy in our own countries that we should feel the urge to try and force-feed our 'solution' into a totally different culture ? Most of us don't even seem to ask themselves that question. Most of us don't seem to understand that elections are not what defines a democracy. They are just a technical aspect.The separation of powers (legislative, executive, judicial) is what defines democracy. If that separation is non-existent or fake, then elections are just a farce. Most if us don't seem to realize that democracy is not getting stronger in the West, it's actually getting weaker and weaker, faker and faker. When communication wizards can manipulate the opinion of voters in ways that are more and more efficient and clever, what is left of democracy ? When financial and commercial giants effectively control the elected 'assemblies of the people' and the politicians in power, what is left of true democracy ? The discrepancy between discourse and reality is becoming incredibly wide ... just as wide (and it's no coincidence) as the difference between the 'virtual world' of our smartphones, TVs and computer screens in which people now seem to spend most of their time, and the real world. Is that virtual world the Brave New World ? Is that the world that our self-labelled 'democracies' have given birth to ? Sounds and looks more and more like Orwell's 1984 to me. Yet we keep chanting our mantras : 'democracy ! democracy ! free elections ! free trade !'... as if that was the global medicine that solves every problem overnight. But ... if our countries are such havens of happiness, why do we come and live here ? If our countries have the best possible moral and political values, then how come most people in these countries spend most of their time ranting about all and everything, electing people only to lapidate them after a couple of years (often less) because they haven't performed the miracles 'we' elected them to perform ? I personnally have very low expectations when it comes to diplomats, and this particular diplomat proves me right. Just about everything he says is full of hot air, arrogance, condescension, and this fake open-mindedness that only makes it worse. Edited October 31, 2015 by Yann55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The USA basically want 2 things from Thailand : free access for American business to Thai resources (especially oil) and a friendly, non-muslim ally in a strategically important position in the world. Which means they would rather have Thaksin back. He will sell them anything as long as he has a finger in the pie. By contrast, Prayuth is fiercely patriotic and would like to kick all foreigners out if he could. He is not good news for American business. They don't give a flying about anything else. You can be sure they know exactly who is behind all the violence and are willing to turn a blind eye to get the result they want. The careful diplomatic talk by the new Ambassador is very interesting if you think a little about his choice of words and the things he avoids saying. I'm a big supporter of the USA because unlike Russia or China they will at least try to do the right thing if they can as part of their bigger picture, but I have no illusions about their cold blooded ruthlessness if needed. Poor quality post with a typically ignorant schoolboy howler about Thailand's oil ( unbelievable ignorance there). Thailand has nothing that the US needs to buy or that it cannot easily obtain elsewhere.But both the Ambassador and Prayuth are right that the longstanding friendship will survive the current difficulties. Incidentally it's an odd kind of patriotism that involves destroying ones country's nascent democracy, trashing its reputation worldwide, rigging a constitution and using the fear of brute force to preserve the rule of an unrepresentative and illegitimate minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muirton Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The USA basically want 2 things from Thailand : free access for American business to Thai resources (especially oil) and a friendly, non-muslim ally in a strategically important position in the world. Which means they would rather have Thaksin back. He will sell them anything as long as he has a finger in the pie. By contrast, Prayuth is fiercely patriotic and would like to kick all foreigners out if he could. He is not good news for American business. They don't give a flying about anything else. You can be sure they know exactly who is behind all the violence and are willing to turn a blind eye to get the result they want. The careful diplomatic talk by the new Ambassador is very interesting if you think a little about his choice of words and the things he avoids saying. I'm a big supporter of the USA because unlike Russia or China they will at least try to do the right thing if they can as part of their bigger picture, but I have no illusions about their cold blooded ruthlessness if needed. Poor quality post with a typically ignorant schoolboy howler about Thailand's oil ( unbelievable ignorance there). Thailand has nothing that the US needs to buy or that it cannot easily obtain elsewhere.But both the Ambassador and Prayuth are right that the longstanding friendship will survive the current difficulties. Incidentally it's an odd kind of patriotism that involves destroying ones country's nascent democracy, trashing its reputation worldwide, rigging a constitution and using the fear of brute force to preserve the rule of an unrepresentative and illegitimate minority. Very well said. Someone in High Office does not know that actually all he's doing is re-arranging the deckchairs on the Thaitanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callaway Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 "US has too high expectations for Thailand". Having any expectations may leave them disappointed. With expectations you deem that there will be improvement. But they should know Thailand will not change and just have different people at the controls of the runaway train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 "I suppose we are guilty of having very high expectations and really believing in Thailand and your future" After his meeting with Prayut, Davies is correct to be guilty of having very high expectations. Or any expectations for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainarong Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Quit while you are in front Mr Ambassador. ( with a full stop ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big carl Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 "...how it is debated and done must be a Thai approach..." That must mean NO CRITICIZING, no matter how accurate. After all, we don't want to see the ambassador arrested for defamation. Ambassador Davies, you're not in Kansas any more. The United States has no idea of what is going on in Thailand. They freely use corruption to line their pockets and are not used to groups being against the practice. It is frightening to them to see a for lack of a better word dictator taking over and making moves to stop the corruption. To unite a country. It is alarming to them when they see the press controlled to the point where they can not create disunity. Yes there are those who would strive to create the disunity Thailand had with the same old nonsense they had used to keep Thailand disunited. Now is there chance to help unite Thailand and work for the common good. It is distracting when the government has to keep fighting the same battles with the dissidents that brought Thailand to the point where it was not safe to be on the streets. To this end they have shut them down and Thailand is a better place for it. The United States urges them to have an election rather than bring peace to the nation and put it on a solid foot hold. Why? Palestine had an election and they would not recognize them. It is time The United States and some of the dissidents learned that they must break eggs to make an omelet. There will be an election and it will be more honest than the past ones. When it is over they will have a new Prime Minister who will still have many changes to make but he will have a solid footing to work from. It is not as some posters would believe an overnight occurrence. It is a long process to bring Thailand back to a country that is not being bought by a fugitive living in self exile. The people must learn that they count. They are not tools to give wealth and power to a select group. A daunting task but it will be accomplished in due time. Not over night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowpot Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The USA basically want 2 things from Thailand : free access for American business to Thai resources (especially oil) and a friendly, non-muslim ally in a strategically important position in the world. Which means they would rather have Thaksin back. He will sell them anything as long as he has a finger in the pie. By contrast, Prayuth is fiercely patriotic and would like to kick all foreigners out if he could. He is not good news for American business. They don't give a flying about anything else. You can be sure they know exactly who is behind all the violence and are willing to turn a blind eye to get the result they want. The careful diplomatic talk by the new Ambassador is very interesting if you think a little about his choice of words and the things he avoids saying. I'm a big supporter of the USA because unlike Russia or China they will at least try to do the right thing if they can as part of their bigger picture, but I have no illusions about their cold blooded ruthlessness if needed. Why would the U.S. need their oil? The U.S. is flush with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 "...how it is debated and done must be a Thai approach..." That must mean NO CRITICIZING, no matter how accurate. After all, we don't want to see the ambassador arrested for defamation. Ambassador Davies, you're not in Kansas any more. Diplomatic immunity: He can say anything he wishes, but it will always be well versed and only as poignant has the US administration wishes. And I'm quite sure our new US Ambassador knows Kansas from the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, Topeka from Bangkok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The guy's only doing his job, being a diplomat. Would you want that job? Sure! Absolutely. "US Department of State. Give me a call: I volunteer!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawker9000 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Sympathetic to a regime besieged by a constituency with increasingly disappointed expectations. Hmmmm. Now WHO appointed him to his post? Yeah. I think he probably understands the situation quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The USA basically want 2 things from Thailand : free access for American business to Thai resources (especially oil) and a friendly, non-muslim ally in a strategically important position in the world. Which means they would rather have Thaksin back. He will sell them anything as long as he has a finger in the pie. By contrast, Prayuth is fiercely patriotic and would like to kick all foreigners out if he could. He is not good news for American business. They don't give a flying about anything else. You can be sure they know exactly who is behind all the violence and are willing to turn a blind eye to get the result they want. The careful diplomatic talk by the new Ambassador is very interesting if you think a little about his choice of words and the things he avoids saying. I'm a big supporter of the USA because unlike Russia or China they will at least try to do the right thing if they can as part of their bigger picture, but I have no illusions about their cold blooded ruthlessness if needed. Read: Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins After which, you will have a slightly more accurate view of how events play out on the world stage, especially between a super-power and a developing nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I am sometimes critical of the US but this guy looks to be the perfect person to be here representing the US. Yes he is a diplomat but he has a good understand of the Thai people and the history of the country. Good on him. If this wasn't a scripted interview, and if the Ambassador was speaking extemporaneously in response to the questions, then I'm impressed by his delicacy in his choice of words, and his ability to intelligently answer questions. My initial impression? Guardedly optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJoad Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Thailand now boasts having the highest globalization ranking among all ASEAN nations, including Singapore. In Bangkok it has achieved a score of 3.5 on the 7-11 index. The 7-11 index is an economic indicator found by dividing the total number of convenience stores per square city block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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