Renewed Retirement Visa Today

[Twin]

I arrived at 9:30 AM, and even with a 35 minute cock up which I will describe below, was out of the office with the visa and reentry permit at 11:05.

It's my second renewal and I show proof of B800,000 coming into Thailand from overseas.

I brought:

1) TM7 with photo attached

2) TM8 for re-entry permit with photo attached

3) Photocopy of old and new passport ( More info on the cock-up this caused to follow )

4) Photo copies of relevant passport pages: photo, current visa, re-entry permit, departure card

5) Letter from bank guaranteeing my funds came from outside Thailand

6) My bank passbook

7) Photcopies of every page of my bank passbook

8) Original health certificate

I arrived at 9:30 and was given a number and told to go to room 102. My number was called within minutes. I sat down at the desk and explained I was here to renew my retirement visa. I handed her my old passport which contained my current visa, and my new passport I picked up last week.

She told me I had to go to another desk by the front door of 102, fill out a "Change of Passport" form, and have the new passport certified before the retirement visa could be extended.

I walked over to that desk, took a number, explained what I was trying to do, and the passport officer told me to fill out a form, drop off my passport and come back at 4:30.

4:30????

Yes, she said, very busy today. I explained I was renewing my visa and she said I must exchange passports first. I sat down in front of her, filled out the form and tried to decide what to do next.

10 minutes later, for some inexplicable reason, she looked up and said, "Tell me again why you are here".

I explained and she said the visa officer could process both. She said to go back to the counter, get another number and get back in the visa line.

I did so, waited a few more minutes until my number was called again.

I sat down, explained why I was there and a different visa officer said I had to go back to the "Passport Exchange" desk and process that first.

I told her I had just been there and was told the visa officer could process both.

She said, "Who told you that?"

I said, "That lady sitting there".

The visa officer got up, walked over to the other desk, had some words with the passport officer, came back, sat down, smiled and said, "OK, sorry, no problem".

She invalidated my existing passport and visa, adding some stamps in my new passport. Each stamp was a history of my prior visas.

She told me to go across the street and photcopy those new stamps.

I ran across, had them made, and came back. She immediately stamped in the new visa extension and had me have it certified by her supervisor.

The supervisor said, "Next year money must be in the account 3 months early".

My balance had gotten quite low and I topped up just last week to prepare for the renewal.

Then after looking through my passbook, she said, "You, no problem".

I asked why and she said I had 6 different deposits in my account over the last 2 years with steady drainage of the funds.

(I'll probably make sure I have the necessary B800,000 3 months in advance next year anyway.)

She handed me the passport and said, "See you next year".

It then took less than 20 minutes to get my multiple re-entry permit.

Except for their confusion over the passport exchange, the process could not be easier.

A good friend of mine had his retirement visa renewed today also. His is based on proof of B65,000 per month income. He arrived 25 minutes AFTER I did and was done 10 minute BEFORE I was.

Hope this report helps. If you have any questions, let me know.

Twin

A footnote: On the B800,000 issue, it appears the 3 month requirement will be instituted. For current renewals, I think (Opinion Only) they will only flag passbooks with a history of B800,000 coming in and immediately going back out after the visa had been renewed.

[lotus eater]

Thanks for setting out the process and documents list in detail. I shall soon be making my first such application - from the current non immig o visa.

I was pleasantly surprized to see that it's possible to get a multiple re-entry permit - thus giving one complete freedom to go abroad at a moments notice. Does this permit have the same expiry date as the visa - regardless of when it's obtained? What is the cost vs the single re-entry permit? Can the single re-entry be obtained without specifying the date of travel/re-entry?

[Axel]

Re-entry permits have the same validity as the permission to stay.

Single Baht 1000, multiple Baht 3800.

[Twin]

The visa and the re-entry permit do have the same dates.

The multiple entry permit costs B3,800. I believe the single costs B1,000.

I don't know if the single entry requires a specific trip date.

If this is your first retirement visa, be aware the visa and permit will expire 12 months from the day you re-entered Thailand from getting your Non -Imm O visa, not from the day the retirement visa is issued.

Example:

If you returned to Thailand with Non Imm O on October 1 and,

you get your retirement visa on November 1,

the visa and permit will expire September 30, 2007.

In subsequent years, your visa will be extended another 12full months.

Hope this helps and best of luck.

Twin

[BlackJack]

yes i think the key issue here is the history in your bank book

if funds come in and then go straight out there is a problem

If funds come in and gradually go down then no problem

I was told that over the 3 months leading up to extension I could add 200k or thereabouts and then get letter from Embassy to show proof of funds for 65k and this would be acceptable

its a bit like roulette at the moment

[Twin]

yes i think the key issue here is the history in your bank book

if funds come in and then go straight out there is a problem

If funds come in and gradually go down then no problem

I was told that over the 3 months leading up to extension I could add 200k or thereabouts and then get letter from Embassy to show proof of funds for 65k and this would be acceptable

its a bit like roulette at the moment

Noel made a great point in another thread, quoting the actual National Police Office Order. Read the Provisional Section, Point 13, at the bottom of the Order. It recognizes existing visas may not meet some of the new requirements set out in the order. It suggests officer discretion in case by case situations.

http://www.lawyer.th.com/National_Police_O...er_Oct_2006.pdf

[LoveDaBlues]

The supervisor said, "Next year money must be in the account 3 months early".

My balance had gotten quite low and I topped up just last week to prepare for the renewal.

Then after looking through my passbook, she said, "You, no problem".

I asked why and she said I had 6 different deposits in my account over the last 2 years with steady drainage of the funds.

(I'll probably make sure I have the necessary B800,000 3 months in advance next year anyway.)

A good friend of mine had his retirement visa renewed today also. His is based on proof of B65,000 per month income. He arrived 25 minutes AFTER I did and was done 10 minute BEFORE I was.

A footnote: On the B800,000 issue, it appears the 3 month requirement will be instituted. For current renewals, I think (Opinion Only) they will only flag passbooks with a history of B800,000 coming in and immediately going back out after the visa had been renewed.

Methinks they are TIRED of farang playing the different 'games' with the money. They want the money to be brought in from a foreign bank and spent here (spent here as far as they can tell ).

I'm betting your friend using the 65K each month has a verifiable history of monthly transfers to his Thai bank. Or some history of xfers that add up to 65K each month.

To me, it's becoming obvious they are trying to run out those that are here on 'short money'.

Thanks for the post.

[Thaiquila]

I don't think there is any evidence at all that they are enforcing the SPENDING of 65K per month!

For example, a retiree could still SPEND 500K baht per year as long as he was transferring in money and keeping his account over the magic number, yes?

[LoveDaBlues]

Guess I worded my post poorly, sorry. Of course they can't enforce the spending of any amount of money.

But I'm sure they WANT the 65K (or more) to be spent here.

So technically I guess I should have said, "They REQUIRE the money come in from a foreign source and they WANT the money spent here".

[Krub]

Guess I worded my post poorly, sorry. Of course they can't enforce the spending of any amount of money.

But I'm sure they WANT the 65K (or more) to be spent here.

So technically I guess I should have said, "They REQUIRE the money come in from a foreign source and they WANT the money spent here".

I also have the feeling that Immigration is tired of being taken for a ride by quite a few who have used the borrowing for a few days without having any intention of either spending it nor being able to spend it if in need.

Thus they now seem to ask to see at least the amount balance of 800k for the 3 months prior to application as per Twin's post of today.

The next thing would be to tighten the grip on the Embassy letter confirming the income of 65k/month.

The only way to do that would be to require the original documents + copies at immigration or actual regular transfers to a Thai bank account.

After all they want to ensure that you have the means to support yourself for a year and they have estimated that at 800k.

Proving to them that you have that amount at your disposal seems fair enough.

[Thaiquila]

Hey, consider that Thai immigration reads this site for ideas!

I am sure there a number of people who are "playing games with the truth" now or are considering doing so concerning their pension or income amount to offset the bank account requirements.

I would suggest that this is risky.

As the post above suggests ... what next?

BTW, if someone was caught doing that, what do you think the consequences would be from Thai authorities? Not granting an extension for sure, but what else? For example, blacklisting.

[LoveDaBlues]

To me they should do away with the 'letter of income' from the Embassy. Can't speak on the other Embassys but the US one proves nothing.

They should concentrate on the actual monies coming into the bank account. It seems they are headed down this path more and more.

[Thaiquila]

To me they should do away with the 'letter of income' from the Embassy. Can't speak on the other Embassys but the US one proves nothing.

They should concentrate on the actual monies coming into the bank account. It seems they are headed down this path more and more.

Perhaps, but that would be a shame that the abuse of some causes so many problems for so many others. I am sure lots of people like to keep more of their money in the West, and get money by ATMS, not having to take all that currency risk and dealing with all those international transfers.

Lets hope level heads prevail, and the policies are moderated.

[LoveDaBlues]

To me they should do away with the 'letter of income' from the Embassy. Can't speak on the other Embassys but the US one proves nothing.

They should concentrate on the actual monies coming into the bank account. It seems they are headed down this path more and more.

Perhaps, but that would be a shame that the abuse of some causes so many problems for so many others. I am sure lots of people like to keep more of their money in the West, and get money by ATMS, not having to take all that currency risk and dealing with all those international transfers.Lets hope level heads prevail, and the policies are moderated.

I agree 100%; this is the way I've lived for the past year. However, my experience at Nong Khai Imm. tells me there are changes a-comin.

I just recently transferred USD $1,900 and will do so each month. I don't want any more hassles next year when I go for the retirement visa extension.

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm about a month away from renewing my O retirement visa, in Chiang Mai. Last year I got my first retirement visa in Hua Hin. I have the US embassy letter from last year, stating my 'pension' or income, and apparently don't need to pay 1,200 baht to get another affidavit this year.

I will bring in three months' bank statements that will show monthly pension payments at first of month, followed by ATM withdrawals in Thailand of about $500 per withdrawal. Each page shows the pensions going in, and Thai ATM withdrawals. Do you think that should prove it, without using my Thai bank account, which is separate?

[Tung_Thaid]

I'm about a month away from renewing my O retirement visa, in Chiang Mai. Last year I got my first retirement visa in Hua Hin. I have the US embassy letter from last year, stating my 'pension' or income, and apparently don't need to pay 1,200 baht to get another affidavit this year.

I will bring in three months' bank statements that will show monthly pension payments at first of month, followed by ATM withdrawals in Thailand of about $500 per withdrawal. Each page shows the pensions going in, and Thai ATM withdrawals. Do you think that should prove it, without using my Thai bank account, which is separate?

I recently renewed my O retirement visa in Chiang Mai, and the Embassy letter was checked to see if I was receiving the required 65,000 baht per month income. I got the impression that they would have preferred to see the monthly income amount quoted in Thai Baht, perhaps "as well as" country of origin amount. Not unreasonable given currency fluctuations etc.

I provided copies of monthly overseas bank statements and copies of ATM receipts to prove movement of funds into Thailand (over a 12 month period) - but they were not so interested in that. They were more interested in seeing the BANK GUARANTEE letter - and a bank passbook. I only had a nominal amount in my bank account - and hadnt bothered with the Bank letter as I thought the "Income" issue was all that mattered. Not so !! They still want to see a bank account - and a Bank Guarantee letter (certifying balance on that day and that the funds came from overseas) - and a "reasonable" balance in the account, despite the 65,000 baht per month income criteria.

They admitted that the regulations say "income or bank balance", but they still like to have the bank account criteria. They suggested that 200,000 baht in a bank account as well as 65,000 baht income, would be very acceptable. It really isnt worth arguing the point. They have to justify their decisions, so I suggest that you cover all bases. You can use those transferred funds for subsequent living costs - but top up again with an overseas transfer when renewing.

Best wishes for your renewal

[JimGant]

They suggested that 200,000 baht in a bank account as well as 65,000 baht income, would be very acceptable.

Good info.

It's previously been reported that Immigration, regardless of stated rule, wanted evidence of a bank account, even when monthly income met requirement. But, an amount had never been stated....

So, now we know what at least CM Immigration (or a particular officer at CM Immigration) considers an acceptable amount.

Now, would they accept a joint account with my Thai spouse -- and if so, would they then want to see 400k?

Gettin' kinda dizzy trying to follow this bouncing ball..............

[Maizefarmer]

Wouldn't suprize me if this results in an increase in deliberate log over stays - guys who just say - stuff it, only takes a couple years for the for visa costs to now add up to the max overstay fine - and just decide to stay, only going out when they have to and then getting a new passport to keep everything looking clean.

What started out as been understood to be no more than a clampdown on people living here on 30 days "free permitts" has indeed become a wholesale overhauls of many of the visa regs - mqny of which appear to focus in on those residing here under the age of 50 or without a wife - unless they have WP status and a legal job.

Tim

[LoveDaBlues]

I'm about a month away from renewing my O retirement visa, in Chiang Mai. Last year I got my first retirement visa in Hua Hin. I have the US embassy letter from last year, stating my 'pension' or income, and apparently don't need to pay 1,200 baht to get another affidavit this year.

I will bring in three months' bank statements that will show monthly pension payments at first of month, followed by ATM withdrawals in Thailand of about $500 per withdrawal. Each page shows the pensions going in, and Thai ATM withdrawals. Do you think that should prove it, without using my Thai bank account, which is separate?

I recently renewed my O retirement visa in Chiang Mai, and the Embassy letter was checked to see if I was receiving the required 65,000 baht per month income. I got the impression that they would have preferred to see the monthly income amount quoted in Thai Baht, perhaps "as well as" country of origin amount. Not unreasonable given currency fluctuations etc.

I provided copies of monthly overseas bank statements and copies of ATM receipts to prove movement of funds into Thailand (over a 12 month period) - but they were not so interested in that. They were more interested in seeing the BANK GUARANTEE letter - and a bank passbook. I only had a nominal amount in my bank account - and hadnt bothered with the Bank letter as I thought the "Income" issue was all that mattered. Not so !! They still want to see a bank account - and a Bank Guarantee letter (certifying balance on that day and that the funds came from overseas) - and a "reasonable" balance in the account, despite the 65,000 baht per month income criteria.

They admitted that the regulations say "income or bank balance", but they still like to have the bank account criteria. They suggested that 200,000 baht in a bank account as well as 65,000 baht income, would be very acceptable. It really isnt worth arguing the point. They have to justify their decisions, so I suggest that you cover all bases. You can use those transferred funds for subsequent living costs - but top up again with an overseas transfer when renewing.

Best wishes for your renewal

I provided copies of monthly overseas bank statements and copies of ATM receipts to prove movement of funds into Thailand (over a 12 month period) - but they were not so interested in that.

Exactly what happened to me in Nong Khai.

*******************************************

What I've been saying all along. Looks like certain officers are starting to tighten the screws in Chiang Mia. Already started in Nong Khai. I suspect as more time goes by the standard will be

SHOW ME THE MONEY at all Immigration locations. IMHO they will slowly place less weight on 'Embassy statements' and more weight on actual balances and transfer history; along with the bank letter. If you're on short money get worried.

[PeaceBlondie]

Well, I'm not sure. I can show way over 67,000 baht being automatically, monthly deposited all year, like clockwork, by US pension agencies, into my US bank. I don't save the 90 or so ATM receipts, but they're all posted on the bank statement, obviously from Thai ATM machines, and they total 1.5 million baht.

I will, for the heck of it, bring a Kasinkorn passbook showing 200,000 Thai baht in Thailand in a Thai bank.

Do you think that woud satisfy a finicky immigration officer on a bad day in Chiang Mai?