Condo Lease Hell

[dia1]

Hoping to get some advice from some people who have lived in Thailand a bit longer than I have or have experience with this kind of issue. Sorry that this will be a bit of a long read.

I recently rented a condo.

I went to view the condo with two agents that were supposedly friends with each other after viewing several condos that I turned down because they did not have a washer/dryer unit inside. I explicitly told the agents that I was not interested in any unit that did not have a washer/dryer, and if it had a washing machine that did not dry it was absolutely out of the question for me. I have allergies to certain types of detergent, so I must do all of my laundry and hanging clothes is not only time consuming but also puts a lot of wear on your clothes.

Anyway, the two agents talked me into a particular unit that did not have a washer/dryer and called the owner while I was viewing the unit and the agents and owner agreed to provide a washer/dryer in the unit if I agreed to the rental and paid for the unit. They also agreed to give me a very slight discount on the unit if I paid immediately... which I did. 30,000 baht for the first months rent and 60,000 baht for two months deposit. 90,000 baht total. The also agreed to replace a heavily damaged table which was in the living room.

The agent said that she needed a couple days to get the unit cleaned and have the washer and dryer installed, and we agreed that I would move in 2-3 days later. I received a receipt for the funds and a copy of the agent's id. Both agents were also very friendly, so I assumed that everything would be set.

So a couple days later, I make the long haul move from my previous place with all my stuff, and when I arrive to the condo I'm shocked to find that instead of providing me the washer/dryer as promised they placed a really ghetto 5,000 baht cold water-only washing machine with no dryer function. The room had not been cleaned, and the table was not replaced.

I told the agent that I was very disappointed that she didn't provide the washer/dryer as promised and asked for it to be replaced with what she promised. The response? "Cannot. It's already been bought" ... I began to raise a little hell, and then she said that she would replace it as soon as she rented one of her other units. She said that the table was not replaced because she did not have one that looked better than that.

Anyway, I was really tired from all the packing and moving and figured I would just replace the table myself or fix it and hope that I could live with the ghetto washing machine for a couple weeks while I waited for her to rent another of her units. She was quite convincing the whole time that she was an honest lady. So I signed the lease and moved in. I wasn't happy, but I also had a whole load of stuff with me, and didn't feel like I had much choice. The agent also signed the lease and said she was going to have the owner of the condo sign it and bring me a copy.

After they leave I begin to realize that they really had put no effort into the cleaning at all. The wiped the counters down and sweeped the floor so it wouldn't be obvious, but after they left I could see that there was mold, mildew and grime in the shower, the shelves were caked with dust, their were small spider nests in every corner of the room, the rugs were matted with filth. Basically once they took my money, they didn't give a damn.

I went to turn on the television and the air conditioners and the batteries were dead everywhere. Then I went to take a shower and the water didn't work! So I had to wait a day an a half for maintenance to come to fix the water. To top it off, I came to find out that there is someone living outside of the building right behind the unit who burned trash every single day, usually twice per day, so anytime I tried to hang my clothes out to dry, when I brought them in they smelled like smoke and burned trash. The internet was constantly broken.

Now by this time I'm beginning to realize I've made a horrible mistake, but I was praying that the agent would come through and give the washer/dryer as she promised and I would deal with all the other issues myself.

Then, about a week and a half into me living in the unit I am sleeping in the bed when I am awoke by the sound of strangers chattering in the kitchen. I get up and I am shocked to find that 3 people had entered the room, all female, and when they saw me standing there in only my underwear, they rush out and say sorry! Now I have never had an intruder in my room, so I didn't know what was going on and I was still dazed from just waking up, so I closed the door and latched it while I tried to figure out what was going on... Immediately the people who had came and left when they saw me rang the bell and I answered once I had got dressed.

One of the women claimed she was the owner and that she was sorry because she thought I was renting a different unit of hers. Then she said she wanted to take the table from the kitchen because she uses it for cooking and also wanted to take a bunch of the kitchen supplies out of the cabinets.

So she takes the table from the kitchen and the supplies and then she leaves. I was totally shocked. After all of the issues and lies that I had been through that was the final straw, and I began looking for another place to live. The agent told me the owner was a man, but 3 women show up and one claims she is the owner and didn't know I lived there? I basically didn't feel comfortable living there anymore, and I think anyone else would feel the same way. I'm also feeling a little freaked out that people have access to the room like and I wanted to get my stuff out as soon as possible before telling the owner or face another intrusion.

So after another week I find another room and move my stuff out. I was there a total of 3 weeks. The agent had never brought me the signed copy of the lease from the owner (she put herself as the lessor), so I only have her contact details. I contact her and let her know all the things that happened and the reason I had to leave, starting with the fact that they did not deliver the washer/dryer as promised and ending with the fact that there was an intrusion from the "owner" who removed furnishings after I had already been living there.

In my lease there are two clauses. One states "If this lease is terminated before the end of the lease period, and the reason for termination is not due to fault of the lessor, the deposit should be refunded immediately upon termination." It also states that if there is a breach of contact a mediator will be provided to settle the issue.

1. The agent supposedly contacted the owner and says the owner refuses to refund my deposit of 60,000 baht because I did not stay there the entire lease duration although all the issues and the entry into the unit by someone the owner knows have been acknowledged.

2. The agent refuses to provide me the contact details of the owner. She states the the owner is "not comfortable" talking to me.

3. When I mention the mediator clause and the fact that it states in the contract that I should be refunded as all these issues are not due to any fault of mine, her response is "What are you going to do if he doesn't pay you?"

And as of today the agent simply does not answer my phone calls. This is two days after me leaving the place and turning in my key.

I've rented a lot of places and rented a few in Thailand and have never had any problems with anyone. In fact, most owners/agents have went above and beyond the make sure that I am happy, but this is just ridiculous. I would expect there to be some issues if I was renting a room for 5,000 baht per month, but to be lied to, have entry without permission and just complete disregard for my concerns on a room where I just handed someone 90,000 baht just blows my mind.

The 60,000 baht isn't a lot of money to me, but it disgusts me that I have been scammed, and either the agent or owner is trying to run off with my money and refuse to even talk to me. I suppose they know I am a foreigner and think that I cannot do anything, but I do not want to just give up on this when I know I have done nothing wrong here and I'm being screwed over.

What would you do in this situation? Since the agent will not talk to me and refuses to provide the info of the owner, I can only think to contact an attorney. A friend of mine looked at the lease and says that the clauses that state I'd be refunded were omitted from the thai language version... I'm sure on purpose as well.

Do I have a legal case to get my money back or am I really just stuck giving 90,000 baht for 3 weeks of hell to these crooks? If they had even attempted to talk to me I would've been happy to get just half of my deposit back and coughed the rest up to bad experience, but the fact that they're just ignoring me now and the fact that the eng version of the contract clearly states I am due a refund, I do not want them to have a penny that they shouldn't have.

[MaeJoMTB]

Not exactly hell .......

Total overreaction on your part based on your inexperience.

You want special stuff done, you get an agreement in writing, then don't pay or move in until it's done.

Nobody made you hand the table over to a random woman with a key.

99bht for a new barrel in the lock.

[JohnC]

Tell the agent you have contacted the tax office to confirm tax has been paid on your deposit!

[dia1]

Not exactly hell .......

Total overreaction on your part based on your inexperience.

You want special stuff done, you get an agreement in writing, then don't pay or move in until it's done.

Nobody made you hand the table over to a random woman with a key.

What part is an overreaction? The fact that I do not feel comfortable when groups of people are entering my room while I'm sleeping or the fact that I think I should get my deposit refunded when my lease states that I should? Or you also think it's okay for furniture to be removed from a place you've rented after you're already living there?

I understand I should have got the washer/dryer, table replacement, room cleaning, in writing. It is my mistake to trust someone... But like I said, I have rented lots of places before and never imagined that I would be blatantly lied to. I'm a nice guy... so yes it's stupid for me to think that people will placy nice back in return.

For me, not being able to shower, wash my clothes, and have people entering without permission is my idea of "hell"... And even if it's not hell it's reason enough that that I felt I had no choice to leave, even if only for the fact that other people have access to the room. I mean... cmon the owner says she didn't know I lived there and I had been there a week already? I was there with the agent when she was talking to the owner on the phone. But it's unclear who the owner even is since I am refused all details!

[apetley]

Wondering if the Consumer Protection Board can help?

http://www.ocpb.go.th/main.php?filename=index

[konying]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

[konying]

Wondering if the Consumer Protection Board can help?

http://www.ocpb.go.th/main.php?filename=index

Generally yes, however without any evidence or even a lease contract, they would not even take the case on

[konying]

Not exactly hell .......

Total overreaction on your part based on your inexperience.

You want special stuff done, you get an agreement in writing, then don't pay or move in until it's done.

Nobody made you hand the table over to a random woman with a key.

What part is an overreaction? The fact that I do not feel comfortable when groups of people are entering my room while I'm sleeping or the fact that I think I should get my deposit refunded when my lease states that I should? Or you also think it's okay for furniture to be removed from a place you've rented after you're already living there?

I understand I should have got the washer/dryer, table replacement, room cleaning, in writing. It is my mistake to trust someone... But like I said, I have rented lots of places before and never imagined that I would be blatantly lied to. I'm a nice guy... so yes it's stupid for me to think that people will placy nice back in return.

For me, not being able to shower, wash my clothes, and have people entering without permission is my idea of "hell"... And even if it's not hell it's reason enough that that I felt I had no choice to leave, even if only for the fact that other people have access to the room. I mean... cmon the owner says she didn't know I lived there and I had been there a week already? I was there with the agent when she was talking to the owner on the phone. But it's unclear who the owner even is since I am refused all details!

Mate, what you have to understand is that you have no evidence to prove any of this? Do you understand?

Did you make video of people in your room?

Did you make video of them removing things from condo?

Wise, would have been to have a meeting, and amend things that were removed from the condo, and later you could have used that as evidence.

I understand your frustration and anger, but sadly you really are out of luck, as i mentioned in my other post.

Without any evidence, its your word against hers or whoever and it means you get nothing.

[MaeJoMTB]

What part is an overreaction? The fact that I do not feel comfortable when groups of people are entering my room while I'm sleeping or the fact that I think I should get my deposit refunded when my lease states that I should? Or you also think it's okay for furniture to be removed from a place you've rented after you're already living there?

Every place I have rented in the world, I assume every previous tenant kept a key.

Bolt on inside, change the lock, padlock on outside ..... covers every eventuality.

You let her take the furniture, you didn't even know who she was.

Might have been the last tenant nicking stuff. Your responsibility for the loss.

3 random women in my apartment ...... I would have come out nekked ..... Thailand party time.

[TheCruncher]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

You haven't seen a washing machine with hot water in Thailand yet, and you claim to have an upperclass hotel?

And dryers costing a fortune? Well for some people 15K maybe is a fortune.

And no they couldn't claim he stole the table, because if the table isn't in the contract then the table doesn't exist for the renter as well as for the landlord

[dia1]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

I'm sitting in a condo right now with a washing machine that has hot water? Every other condo I've rented in Thailand had a washing machine that could heat water. Yes, they are more expensive than the ghetto cold water only machines but they are freely available at homeworks, powerbuy, tesco or any other place that sells washing machines. I'd say at least 75% of condos I've viewed had a washing machine that could heat water or a washer/dryer combo. So I don't know what you're talking about.... Also keep in mind that I am paying for a fairly expensive condo in a fairly expensive building. Putting a 5k baht washing top loading washing machine in one of these units would only decrease the value.

And I assumed that they would give me one because so many units I had already viewed had a washer/dryer already! I only agreed to this because I thought 30k per month was a deal vs the 40k or so would've paid for a unit that already had it. The agents knew this as well.

The agent has acknowledged that she promised me a washer/dryer and the owner has acknowledged the the entry without permission and the removal of furniture. There are security cameras at the condo I live in, there is no need for them to deny it... The evidence is there. They also can't claim I took a table because again... security cameras would see it.

Basically what you are saying is that once you pay, the owner can do whatever the F*** they want and you can't do anything about it. Maybe that's the case, but I don't want to believe it. What's to prevent them from pulling this shit on anyone who comes to rent from them? It sure is making them a lot more money than just having a happy tenant.

[JohnWoods]

Suggest you buy your own condo of you Can afford it

[konying]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

You haven't seen a washing machine with hot water in Thailand yet, and you claim to have an upperclass hotel?

And dryers costing a fortune? Well for some people 15K maybe is a fortune.

And no they couldn't claim he stole the table, because if the table isn't in the contract then the table doesn't exist for the renter as well as for the landlord

For starters please get your facts right before trolling and posting drivel.

I never claimed to own an upper class hotel and even if i did, it has little to do with seeing washers with hot water

Secondly put on your reading glasses before posting yet more drivel, OP clearly stated he wanted washer/dryer combo. those do not cost 15 k

And even assuming dryers cost 15K it is a fortune for a rental property, might be wise to have some idea on the subject before posting drivel. Yes i am sure your pension pays for your penthouse in the heart of the city

And lastly, he does not have a contract, i suggest you read again, Adding a page with items to a contract which he does not have, would take less than 2 mins.

[konying]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

I'm sitting in a condo right now with a washing machine that has hot water? Every other condo I've rented in Thailand had a washing machine that could heat water. Yes, they are more expensive than the ghetto cold water only machines but they are freely available at homeworks, powerbuy, tesco or any other place that sells washing machines. I'd say at least 75% of condos I've viewed had a washing machine that could heat water or a washer/dryer combo. So I don't know what you're talking about.... Also keep in mind that I am paying for a fairly expensive condo in a fairly expensive building. Putting a 5k baht washing top loading washing machine in one of these units would only decrease the value.

And I assumed that they would give me one because so many units I had already viewed had a washer/dryer already! I only agreed to this because I thought 30k per month was a deal vs the 40k or so would've paid for a unit that already had it. The agents knew this as well.

The agent has acknowledged that she promised me a washer/dryer and the owner has acknowledged the the entry without permission and the removal of furniture. There are security cameras at the condo I live in, there is no need for them to deny it... The evidence is there. They also can't claim I took a table because again... security cameras would see it.

Basically what you are saying is that once you pay, the owner can do whatever the F*** they want and you can't do anything about it. Maybe that's the case, but I don't want to believe it. What's to prevent them from pulling this shit on anyone who comes to rent from them? It sure is making them a lot more money than just having a happy tenant.

For the life of me, i have no idea why you arguing with me, i am not the one who owes you money.

Fine, you know better, You have made your knowledge known in your OP.

All the best getting footage from condo management. You really are clueless

All the best

[TheCruncher]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

You haven't seen a washing machine with hot water in Thailand yet, and you claim to have an upperclass hotel?

And dryers costing a fortune? Well for some people 15K maybe is a fortune.

And no they couldn't claim he stole the table, because if the table isn't in the contract then the table doesn't exist for the renter as well as for the landlord

For starters please get your facts right before trolling and posting drivel.

I never claimed to own an upper class hotel and even if i did, it has little to do with seeing washers with hot water

Secondly put on your reading glasses before posting yet more drivel, OP clearly stated he wanted washer/dryer combo. those do not cost 15 k

And even assuming dryers cost 15K it is a fortune for a rental property, might be wise to have some idea on the subject before posting drivel. Yes i am sure your pension pays for your penthouse in the heart of the city

And lastly, he does not have a contract, i suggest you read again, Adding a page with items to a contract which he does not have, would take less than 2 mins.

Adding a page with items to a contract needs to be counter signed by the renter to be valid, you smarty.

And please don't get me going LemonCookie.

[konying]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

You haven't seen a washing machine with hot water in Thailand yet, and you claim to have an upperclass hotel?

And dryers costing a fortune? Well for some people 15K maybe is a fortune.

And no they couldn't claim he stole the table, because if the table isn't in the contract then the table doesn't exist for the renter as well as for the landlord

For starters please get your facts right before trolling and posting drivel.

I never claimed to own an upper class hotel and even if i did, it has little to do with seeing washers with hot water

Secondly put on your reading glasses before posting yet more drivel, OP clearly stated he wanted washer/dryer combo. those do not cost 15 k

And even assuming dryers cost 15K it is a fortune for a rental property, might be wise to have some idea on the subject before posting drivel. Yes i am sure your pension pays for your penthouse in the heart of the city

And lastly, he does not have a contract, i suggest you read again, Adding a page with items to a contract which he does not have, would take less than 2 mins.

Adding a page with items to a contract needs to be counter signed by the renter to be valid, you smarty.

And please don't get me going LemonCookie.

Which part of he does not have a contract you struggle to understand?

Is it just the matter of having last word no matter how silly it sounds, or you really are that clueless?

Get you going? please no more drivel, already had enough

[ripley]

Most replies here call to my mind locks, barn doors and horses. I think people are being a bit rough on the OP. He is only asking whether he has any legal recourse, and he told the story so that we'd know what his situation is and why. I can't think of any recourse although the suggestion to let the agency know he's going to call the Tax Department is a good one. Could even actually make a report to the tax people because it's 98% certain these screwballs aren't reporting.

Just a word in defense of what you're all calling "ghetto" washing machines: These little guys really get your clothes clean. They also save a lot of water and detergent as you can re-use a tub of water that is still clean. Each to his own but can tell you that at the time of purchase I fought off salespeople who wanted me to buy more "upscale" machines.

[TheCruncher]

You haven't seen a washing machine with hot water in Thailand yet, and you claim to have an upperclass hotel?

And dryers costing a fortune? Well for some people 15K maybe is a fortune.

And no they couldn't claim he stole the table, because if the table isn't in the contract then the table doesn't exist for the renter as well as for the landlord

For starters please get your facts right before trolling and posting drivel.

I never claimed to own an upper class hotel and even if i did, it has little to do with seeing washers with hot water

Secondly put on your reading glasses before posting yet more drivel, OP clearly stated he wanted washer/dryer combo. those do not cost 15 k

And even assuming dryers cost 15K it is a fortune for a rental property, might be wise to have some idea on the subject before posting drivel. Yes i am sure your pension pays for your penthouse in the heart of the city

And lastly, he does not have a contract, i suggest you read again, Adding a page with items to a contract which he does not have, would take less than 2 mins.

Adding a page with items to a contract needs to be counter signed by the renter to be valid, you smarty.

And please don't get me going LemonCookie.

Which part of he does not have a contract you struggle to understand?

Is it just the matter of having last word no matter how silly it sounds, or you really are that clueless?

The part I don't understand is how do they add a page with items, as you suggested, to a non existing contract?

Maybe that was just your drivel then.

[richard_smith237]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

Not true - Washing machine heats up the incoming cold water unless its a crappy 5000 baht cheap one.

Decent dryers can be bought for 14,000 baht (new).

Why do I know this? I'm renting out my Apartment and have provide a Washing machine and a dryer.

Ironically enough for the Op - my unit is rented for 30,000 baht per month...

It seems the Op has made a mistake in signing the lease too early before agreements were made.

Unfortunately when renting it takes two decent parties for it to be a successful experience.

As a Landlord I find the Ops distress understandable and I empathise.

Moving forwards I'm not sure what the Op can do about this situation though.

[konying]

So how do they add a page with items, as you suggested, to a non existing contract?

trolling clearly.

HE DOES NOT HAVE A CONTRACT

They could put anything they want, have him charged and arrested and then he can argue with no evidence of what he had or did not have

[TheCruncher]

So how do they add a page with items, as you suggested, to a non existing contract?

trolling clearly.

HE DOES NOT HAVE A CONTRACT

They could put anything they want, have him charged and arrested and then he can argue with no evidence of what he had or did not have

Yes they could put anything they want in a contract, but as long as it isn't signed by both parties the landlord can also not claim anything.

[saakura]

Almost all good washing machines sold in thailand have the facility to heat the water, and this has been so for a long time. And they dont cost much. Even good brands like Siemens cost around 23000. In hindsight, you could have bought one by yourself and lived out the lease and then taken it with you, saving yourself 90000 baht.

[CHRISTIANa9]

This is one of those lesson u remember for life. Amortize the cost over your lifetime, u might just sleep better.

[konying]

So how do they add a page with items, as you suggested, to a non existing contract?

trolling clearly.

HE DOES NOT HAVE A CONTRACT

They could put anything they want, have him charged and arrested and then he can argue with no evidence of what he had or did not have

Yes they could put anything they want in a contract, but as long as it isn't signed by both parties the landlord can also not claim anything.

He paid the full amount and moved in. Yes they can

[dia1]

Most replies here call to my mind locks, barn doors and horses. I think people are being a bit rough on the OP. He is only asking whether he has any legal recourse, and he told the story so that we'd know what his situation is and why. I can't think of any recourse although the suggestion to let the agency know he's going to call the Tax Department is a good one. Could even actually make a report to the tax people because it's 98% certain these screwballs aren't reporting.

Just a word in defense of what you're all calling "ghetto" washing machines: These little guys really get your clothes clean. They also save a lot of water and detergent as you can re-use a tub of water that is still clean. Each to his own but can tell you that at the time of purchase I fought off salespeople who wanted me to buy more "upscale" machines.

Thanks for this.

Yes, I am just asking if I have any legal case, primarily on the count that my lease states clearly that I should be refunded my deposit if the lease is terminated due to reasons that are of no fault of my own. None of the reasons why I felt I needed to leave were of my fault. And there are no other reasons that I could think of that would be able to prove that they weren't my fault or whatever...

Let's keep in mind that I stayed there only 3 weeks. If I was dealing with nice people they would say "Sorry for the misunderstanding" and gladly hand me my deposit back without me even having to argue. At least that is what I would do if I owned a unit and all of this happened to a tenant. It's not like they can't rent the unit out again. But I'm talking about people who know what happened to me is wrong and they don't even want to provide me contact details because they are trying to get away with it...

Yeah, I should have forced them to create a contract for the washer/dryer. My bad. I should have force them to create a contract for the table replacement and cleaning. My bad. But even when I tried to "accept" the broken promises that they gave me just to convince me to pay and lease their unit, I would never feel comfortable once people start entering the place unannounced and/or take furniture from the unit. This isn't someone who broke the door down... They had a key and entered normally so that's why I accepted that it was the owner, but it's beyond the fact since the owner admitted it is someone he knows.

Also I should noet that my lease states I cannot modify the unit, so changing locks or adding locks is not permitted. Then I actually would be in breach of contract and he would have grounds to keep the deposit.

Maybe I should just move on and forget about it, but 60,000 baht is quite a lot of money when my contract says that it should be returned. And to be honest, I don't like to reward people who do this kind of stuff to people... Even if it costs me 60k baht in legal fees just to prevent them from getting the money, I'd be willing to walk away with nothing knowing that the bad guys didn't win.

[TheCruncher]

So how do they add a page with items, as you suggested, to a non existing contract?

trolling clearly.

HE DOES NOT HAVE A CONTRACT

They could put anything they want, have him charged and arrested and then he can argue with no evidence of what he had or did not have

Yes they could put anything they want in a contract, but as long as it isn't signed by both parties the landlord can also not claim anything.

He paid the full amount and moved in. Yes they can

Now you stop trolling. He paid the full amount for what?

Where on the receipt it says what was included? You claim that the duty of evidence is one sided?

And stop the drivel that trhe OP doesn't have a contract, because in post #25 he clearly states that the has a contract.

[konying]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

Not true - Washing machine heats up the incoming cold water unless its a crappy 5000 baht cheap one.

Decent dryers can be bought for 14,000 baht (new).

Why do I know this? I'm renting out my Apartment and have provide a Washing machine and a dryer.

Ironically enough for the Op - my unit is rented for 30,000 baht per month...

It seems the Op has made a mistake in signing the lease too early before agreements were made.

Unfortunately when renting it takes two decent parties for it to be a successful experience.

As a Landlord I find the Ops distress understandable and I empathise.

Moving forwards I'm not sure what the Op can do about this situation though.

See my 4th sentence?

I have 13000 baht Panasonic and it does not heat up water.

Now with your assertion of price, you think landlord would spend 15K on washer and another 15 K on dryer? thats one month rent

Then give another 1 month rent to agent and then reduce the rent?

It is not about right or wrong, but what OP can prove and in this case -NOTHING.

[konying]

Now you stop trolling. He paid the full amount for what?

Where on the receipt it says what was included? You claim that the duty of evidence is one sided?

Are you really that thick? or just can not understand basic English?

OP stated he paid one month rent and 2 month deposit

DO you really struggle to comprehend that by paying full amount and moving in, OP accepted whatever contract may say, even if he did not have it or seen it

Please educate yourself a little, as clearly you never owned any property to rent to even comprehend how it works.

Its pretty clearly, you are clueless, so stop trolling

[TheCruncher]

Now you stop trolling. He paid the full amount for what?

Where on the receipt it says what was included? You claim that the duty of evidence is one sided?

Are you really that thick? or just can not understand basic English?

OP stated he paid one month rent and 2 month deposit

DO you really struggle to comprehend that by paying full amount and moving in, OP accepted whatever contract may say, even if he did not have it or seen it

Please educate yourself a little, as clearly you never owned any property to rent to even comprehend how it works.

Its pretty clearly, you are clueless, so stop trolling

Statement from the OP in post #25

Yes, I am just asking if I have any legal case, primarily on the count that my lease states clearly that I should be refunded my deposit if the lease is terminated due to reasons that are of no fault of my own

Now who is the thick one? Now tell us again how they gonna add a page to that contract, that you claim there isn't ?

[dia1]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

Not true - Washing machine heats up the incoming cold water unless its a crappy 5000 baht cheap one.

Decent dryers can be bought for 14,000 baht (new).

Why do I know this? I'm renting out my Apartment and have provide a Washing machine and a dryer.

Ironically enough for the Op - my unit is rented for 30,000 baht per month...

It seems the Op has made a mistake in signing the lease too early before agreements were made.

Unfortunately when renting it takes two decent parties for it to be a successful experience.

As a Landlord I find the Ops distress understandable and I empathise.

Moving forwards I'm not sure what the Op can do about this situation though.

See my 4th sentence?

I have 13000 baht Panasonic and it does not heat up water.

Now with your assertion of price, you think landlord would spend 15K on washer and another 15 K on dryer? thats one month rent

Then give another 1 month rent to agent and then reduce the rent?

It is not about right or wrong, but what OP can prove and in this case -NOTHING.

Any modifications that the landlord spends does not vanish and does not go into my pockets. If he puts a 30k washing machine in the unit it stays with the unit for as long as it is functioning and raises the value of his unit allowing him to rent for a higher price.

It was clear that the unit I had moved into had not been lived in for a long time, so even if providing a 30k washing machine it pays for itself over the course of 1 month. The agents and owner KNEW that I would not agree to the unit without them agreeing to the washer/dryer so if they had turned down my proposal they would've lost more money if the unit had went unrented even 2 more months and most likely a lot longer than that. And now they are going to be losing even more cash because they lost a tenant who would be paying an additional 11 months or 330,000 which they could have earned honestly.

Instead they obviously agreed to it because the knew I'd pass if they said no, and once I paid they just said "<deleted> it" and put in the cheapest washing machine they could find so they could pocket the additional cash. Trust me... it's cheap. I saw the unit at the store and it was the cheapest model.