Condo Lease Hell

[trogers]

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

555!!!! Can it be that your last shopping trip was 30years ago?

When you was last time in a big shop like Tesco Lotus, Big C, Powerbuy, Numchai, ...!!!!

They have a lot of HOT WATER washing machines and dryers. And this for sure over the last 15 years.

Just more expensive. Prices start at 15.000 THB!!!

Love super intelligent people who just can not read and comprehend.

Here show me which one is hot water machine https://www2.directtoshop.com/category/11089

เครื่องซักอบ ELECTROLUX EWW12842 8/6KG 1200RPM

Hot water washer and dryer with inverter technology - Bt29,900.

[ozyjon]

What country are you in, contracts don't mean

much, no matter what country you live in, next

will be a pre nup in Thailand, like a siv, won't

hold water, why not buy your own top quality

washer/dryer to suit your requirements.

[bimmerbob]

jeez...you must have lots of time on your hands to write such a long article!

Whereas I sympathise, why did you not exercise a bit of common sense - that's all there is to it....

1) never take any agents words as gospel

2) always test out the equipment

3) do not part with advances / deposits until your conditions are met

4) 'laundry' service is easily affordable, so why fret about DIY laundry?

Sorry to be blunt, but often, it can be a wake up call........

[jadee]

I paid only 12000 baht for my front load hot water machine , LG brand. What OP should have done was to specify type of hot water machines needed, a trip to BIG C and give the owner a list of available machines with prices. Then up to the owner to accept it or not.

You got a great deal, where did you buy it from? Does it dry as well?

Thanks

[jadee]

I actually really enjoyed reading the OP's story, they write well. Sorry if this is off-topic but they wrote that hanging clothes to dry puts 'a lot of wear on' them. I'm just curious, how so? I just use a top-loader aka 'ghetto' machine and hang my clothes to dry because I'm too poor and cheap to buy a dryer, so surely spinning clothes dry puts more wear than hanging them out?

[inzman]

The op is a total mug. How do people like this get along in the real world? My gosh he is a victim from day one. No sympathy at all for such a victim. Grow a brain,jeez!

[bazza40]

Not much you can do. However, apart from threatening to contact the tax office you could try turning up at the agent's office ( if you can find out where it is ) and harassing them for repayment of the bond. Do it often enough, and she might reach a compromise because you would be driving away business. If she's that dodgy, doubt she would call the police.

[bazza40]

Not much you can do. However, apart from threatening to contact the tax office you could try turning up at the agent's office ( if you can find out where it is ) and harassing them for repayment of the bond. Do it often enough, and she might reach a compromise because you would be driving away business. If she's that dodgy, doubt she would call the police.

[dia1]

Curious to know, where are you renting at? Seems like a high rent for a very unattractive, run down apartment?

I was renting in Pattaya... In one of the more expensive buildings there. I have never lived in Pattaya before and have always stayed in Bangkok. Thought I would give it a chance for a year. Now I am back in Bangkok because I've rented in BKK a few years and I didn't want to get scammed in Pattaya again... I can afford to get burned once, but not again.

To the other comments. Yeah, I should have checked to make sure the shower worked. I did notice that it was dirty, but the agent kept saying "don't worry, we will clean everything" blah blah blah... It was unfathomable in my mind that the water in the shower would not work for a condo that they were asking 35k per month for. Completely unfathomable. I only got the 30k per month "deal" by paying them in advance. So I actually would've felt a little silly to step in the shower and turn it on to make sure water came out. And considering the amount of times they said "We will clean everything" to think that the shower would be left caked in mold and mildew... I dunno, just unlike anything I experienced before. Every time that I've rented in Bangkok I have had zero problems even when I used agents. Also keep in mind that there were two agents present at the time and they both knew that the washer/dryer was a make it or break it item for me.

Anyway, I still gave them the benefit of the doubt despite the lack of cleaning, the lying about the washer and dryer, the daily burning of trash behind the building, the failure to fix the mistakes or replace the broken table. The point where I no longer felt comfortable living at that unit was when unknown people entered the unit without notifying me and without permission. They didn't even knock! I have a lot of expensive items... laptops, cameras, jewelry, etc. I can only imagine what would have happened if I hadn't been in the room at the time. And the fact that they didn't even bat an eye at removing the table (that had all of my stuff on it already) and made it very clear that I was not dealing with honorable people and my safety was at risk. They just walked away leaving a vacant space/wall in the room. What was I supposed to do? Buy more furniture to fill the vacant spot and hope they don't come take more stuff?

There are details that I have left out as well, because they didn't really matter. Like the fact that the refrigerator was haywire... Sometimes cold and sometimes warm. Milk would spoil in a couple days. With the exception of the water, I never asked for any of the things to be fixed at the owner's expense. Also the day that I was leaving once again I heard someone trying to enter the room while I was sleeping. Someone put a key in the door very slowly and quietly this time, slowly turning the handle and pushing the door open. I jumped out of bed and ran to the door, but the person simply closed the door and left before I saw them.There is no peephole on the door for me to look through and I didn't have clothes on to open the door, but it was freaky nonetheless. I assume they backed out of entering because all of my stuff was already packed and sitting in front of the door... Impossible to pass without making a lot of noise. It was the last day I was there, so I was just glad to be leaving...

There are plenty of rooms in the 10k-15k range(especially in Pattaya), and I wouldn't have expected anything special to be done for me for that amount. However 30k is at the very high end in Pattaya. I should also mention that I told the agent I didn't even want to LOOK at units that did not have washer/dryers and it was HER suggestion to ask this particular owner if he would provide the washer/dryer for me to live there. I'm not the type of guy to go into rooms and ask for a whole bunch of stuff if its not already there... There were other units I could have got for the same price or less that already had what I needed, but she convinced me that me to go that route of asking for it to be put in on this unit...

I didn't ask for a refund on my rent. I simply asked for my deposit to be returned to me and even proactively offered to pay whatever the cost was for the cold water washing machine that I didn't ask for... I would've even accepted an apology and half of the deposit to cover the agent's fees. But instead they just copped the deposit and cold shouldered me before mocking me saying "What are you going to do about it?" And in case you're wondering, the room was actually in better condition when I left than before I moved in because I fixed/replaced many broken things and cleaned at my own expense. I even left a brand new desk in one of the rooms because it was simply too large to bring back to Bangkok.

Anyway... lesson learned.

I will definitely never pay in advance like that again, no matter how sweet the deal offered, and I won't rent anything without having full contact details of the owner in advance. And I won't believe that I am protected by the lease either... because like I said the lease clearly states that I am due to have the deposit refunded, but they simply don't care.

It's my fault that I trusted people... I really hate to walk away from this, but filing a police report and having it on my mind for 60 days while CPB handles it is probably more stress than it's worth.

Again thanks for everyone's suggestions. I'm about 90% sure now I'm just going to walk away and let these guys get away with basically scamming me. 10% still tells me to fight just so that they quit doing this type of thing, but then again if people are that black-hearted, I'll probably get physical threats once the police or whoever show up at their door. Maybe I should just be thankful that I didn't have all my valuables cleaned out while I was away and got out of the situation unscathed.

Hopefully, this thread at least will be a little warning to would-be tenants. Be very very cautious, especially when you're being promised certain things or working with a real estate agent. I don't want to say they are all bad, because with the exception of this one experience I have had owners and agents that have all been very pleasant to work with. But some absolutely, positively will flat out lie to you to get your money. And if you're dealing with a substantial amount of money, I guess some owners will just totally disregard the contract if it gives them the chance to rip you off... especially if they are hiding behind a shady agent.

[dia1]

I actually really enjoyed reading the OP's story, they write well. Sorry if this is off-topic but they wrote that hanging clothes to dry puts 'a lot of wear on' them. I'm just curious, how so? I just use a top-loader aka 'ghetto' machine and hang my clothes to dry because I'm too poor and cheap to buy a dryer, so surely spinning clothes dry puts more wear than hanging them out?

You know, I will admit the ghetto top loader did wash clothes alright. However most of my clothes are black and when you hang dry clothes they do not get the dryer motions which removes lint. So slowly lint particles build up on the black clothing and make them look bad. Also, when you hang dry clothes the weight of the wet clothes stretches out the seams, especially around the neck, so fitted clothes basically become not so fitted over time.

Besides clothes though, some things like towels feel stiff and scratchy after being hang dried, but are very soft when machine dried. I can't use fabric softener due to my allergies, so I am stuck with the stiff stuff. I like to wash my sheets once per week... I won't even get into how annoying/difficult it is to hang a huge wet sheet or duvet on a tiny balcony once per week.

Then it rains and you're screwed... And the amount of time to hang the wet clothes and take them down is quite inconvenient. A washer and dryer can have dirty clothes cleaned and dryed in a couple hours, but a washer only means you have to plan to have your stuff hanging out for about 6 hours for it to be completely dry maybe longer if you have a big load or it's not a sunny day.

It's definitely a matter of preference, but in my case having a washer/dryer seems to keep my clothing in better shape and saves me hours of time and work every week.

[snowgard]

Love super intelligent people who just can not read and comprehend.

Here show me which one is hot water machine https://www2.directtoshop.com/category/11089

In normal everyone of this over 15.000 THB. You don't must mean because the shop doesn't wrote details it must be all cold washers. It's just to much to wrote for some webmasters.

This shop has product details in Thai. Just translate it. http://www.powerbuy.co.th/en/d/frontloaders

[konying]

Love super intelligent people who just can not read and comprehend.

Here show me which one is hot water machine https://www2.directtoshop.com/category/11089

In normal everyone of this over 15.000 THB. You don't must mean because the shop doesn't wrote details it must be all cold washers. It's just to much to wrote for some webmasters.

This shop has product details in Thai. Just translate it. http://www.powerbuy.co.th/en/d/frontloaders

Hence i clearly wrote, may be it does exist but i have not seen it

[KittenKong]

It's my fault that I trusted people... I really hate to walk away from this, but filing a police report and having it on my mind for 60 days while CPB handles it is probably more stress than it's worth.

Again thanks for everyone's suggestions. I'm about 90% sure now I'm just going to walk away and let these guys get away with basically scamming me. 10% still tells me to fight just so that they quit doing this type of thing, but then again if people are that black-hearted, I'll probably get physical threats once the police or whoever show up at their door. Maybe I should just be thankful that I didn't have all my valuables cleaned out while I was away and got out of the situation unscathed.

I think you are making a mistake. You should definitely report it and see it through to end, if only to protect other potential victims of these people.

[Rocketsurgeon]

Some sage advice

You get what you get when you sign the lease or hand over the cash. Nothing more, ever.

Promises amount to nothing more than lies here.

Once you hand over the money, its done or the in this case, sign.

I've many times held back payments or walked away bcz of vague promises.

Even in a stall...if someone says they have your ..... but then leave to go root around their friends shops to return half hour later with a part or object that will cost you 20% more. Count on it. As soon as they go to find what they DONT have stop them and say no thanks. A classic trick also is to take your computer or phone apart so youre stuck with them.

Lesson. If you can't see it, move on.

[VIPinthailand]

stop to think you are somebody because you open your wallet at any occasion. your money worth s... t in Thailand. they will take it and you will will get nothing in exchange.

use your money as a carrot instead... little by little, like amphetamine, morphine,....

[balo]

I paid only 12000 baht for my front load hot water machine , LG brand. What OP should have done was to specify type of hot water machines needed, a trip to BIG C and give the owner a list of available machines with prices. Then up to the owner to accept it or not.

You got a great deal, where did you buy it from? Does it dry as well?

Thanks

No it does not dry , my clothes dry on the balcony within a few hours in this climate. But for me who suffer from allergy it's important to wash the clothes and linen at higher temperatures, a cold wash will not get rid of bacterias.

[wpcoe]

No it does not dry , my clothes dry on the balcony within a few hours in this climate. But for me who suffer from allergy it's important to wash the clothes and linen at higher temperatures, a cold wash will not get rid of bacterias.

Sorry to barge in on this thread, but I've often wondered about high-temperature washing here. My understanding is that the laundry detergent powders sold here are formulated for "cold water" temps. Is there a trade-off between using high temps for sanitizing vs the cold water detergents?

[TheCruncher]

No it does not dry , my clothes dry on the balcony within a few hours in this climate. But for me who suffer from allergy it's important to wash the clothes and linen at higher temperatures, a cold wash will not get rid of bacterias.

Sorry to barge in on this thread, but I've often wondered about high-temperature washing here. My understanding is that the laundry detergent powders sold here are formulated for "cold water" temps. Is there a trade-off between using high temps for sanitizing vs the cold water detergents?

You will find that there are detergents for top loading and for front loading machines.

[wpcoe]

No it does not dry , my clothes dry on the balcony within a few hours in this climate. But for me who suffer from allergy it's important to wash the clothes and linen at higher temperatures, a cold wash will not get rid of bacterias.

Sorry to barge in on this thread, but I've often wondered about high-temperature washing here. My understanding is that the laundry detergent powders sold here are formulated for "cold water" temps. Is there a trade-off between using high temps for sanitizing vs the cold water detergents?

You will find that there are detergents for top loading and for front loading machines.

I have seen the little pictograms on detergent packages for front- vs top-loading washers. For no particular reason, I had thought that only had to do with the granularity of the powder. So, the detergent for front-loaders is actually formulated for higher temps. Good to know!

[Sooo Upto Me]

Totally agree with MaeJom

You also state ghetto washing machine ONLY cold water,

Thailand does not have hot water machines, because water heating is done by the heater not a central system.

May be exists somewhere i am yet to see it after 15 years.

Washer/dryer cost a fortune,really not sure why you believed they would give you new one and reduce the rent.

As you have nothing in writing, and have no evidence to support any of your claims or experience, i am sorry to say your money is gone.

They could get even more nasty if they wanted too and claim you stole the table and whatever else they can think of.

Sorry but not much you can do and i doubt anyone can help, mainly because no evidence at all

Wot a load of codswallop u talk. Of cause u can buy hot water washing machines over here. Where do u live? with the hilltribes in northern Thailand. This guy has been well an truly done over by a rougue agent who is prob renting out this condo illegally an the owner is out of the country unaware that its even been let out. Thats why the agent makes up this pathetic excuse of saying the tenant cannot even speak to the owner.

Just another one of Thailands little scams with money being involved.

Yes he made a couple of mistakes by paying the full amount upfront b4 any work woz done on the unit an making sure that he got his washer/dryer b4 a contract was signed.

Would u hav liked to hav lost 90,000b? I dont think so.

[Kangaloo]

Hoping to get some advice from some people who have lived in Thailand a bit longer than I have or have experience with this kind of issue. Sorry that this will be a bit of a long read.

I recently rented a condo.

I went to view the condo with two agents that were supposedly friends with each other after viewing several condos that I turned down because they did not have a washer/dryer unit inside. I explicitly told the agents that I was not interested in any unit that did not have a washer/dryer, and if it had a washing machine that did not dry it was absolutely out of the question for me. I have allergies to certain types of detergent, so I must do all of my laundry and hanging clothes is not only time consuming but also puts a lot of wear on your clothes.

Anyway, the two agents talked me into a particular unit that did not have a washer/dryer and called the owner while I was viewing the unit and the agents and owner agreed to provide a washer/dryer in the unit if I agreed to the rental and paid for the unit. They also agreed to give me a very slight discount on the unit if I paid immediately... which I did. 30,000 baht for the first months rent and 60,000 baht for two months deposit. 90,000 baht total. The also agreed to replace a heavily damaged table which was in the living room.

The agent said that she needed a couple days to get the unit cleaned and have the washer and dryer installed, and we agreed that I would move in 2-3 days later. I received a receipt for the funds and a copy of the agent's id. Both agents were also very friendly, so I assumed that everything would be set.

So a couple days later, I make the long haul move from my previous place with all my stuff, and when I arrive to the condo I'm shocked to find that instead of providing me the washer/dryer as promised they placed a really ghetto 5,000 baht cold water-only washing machine with no dryer function. The room had not been cleaned, and the table was not replaced.

I told the agent that I was very disappointed that she didn't provide the washer/dryer as promised and asked for it to be replaced with what she promised. The response? "Cannot. It's already been bought" ... I began to raise a little hell, and then she said that she would replace it as soon as she rented one of her other units. She said that the table was not replaced because she did not have one that looked better than that.

Anyway, I was really tired from all the packing and moving and figured I would just replace the table myself or fix it and hope that I could live with the ghetto washing machine for a couple weeks while I waited for her to rent another of her units. She was quite convincing the whole time that she was an honest lady. So I signed the lease and moved in. I wasn't happy, but I also had a whole load of stuff with me, and didn't feel like I had much choice. The agent also signed the lease and said she was going to have the owner of the condo sign it and bring me a copy.

After they leave I begin to realize that they really had put no effort into the cleaning at all. The wiped the counters down and sweeped the floor so it wouldn't be obvious, but after they left I could see that there was mold, mildew and grime in the shower, the shelves were caked with dust, their were small spider nests in every corner of the room, the rugs were matted with filth. Basically once they took my money, they didn't give a damn.

I went to turn on the television and the air conditioners and the batteries were dead everywhere. Then I went to take a shower and the water didn't work! So I had to wait a day an a half for maintenance to come to fix the water. To top it off, I came to find out that there is someone living outside of the building right behind the unit who burned trash every single day, usually twice per day, so anytime I tried to hang my clothes out to dry, when I brought them in they smelled like smoke and burned trash. The internet was constantly broken.

Now by this time I'm beginning to realize I've made a horrible mistake, but I was praying that the agent would come through and give the washer/dryer as she promised and I would deal with all the other issues myself.

Then, about a week and a half into me living in the unit I am sleeping in the bed when I am awoke by the sound of strangers chattering in the kitchen. I get up and I am shocked to find that 3 people had entered the room, all female, and when they saw me standing there in only my underwear, they rush out and say sorry! Now I have never had an intruder in my room, so I didn't know what was going on and I was still dazed from just waking up, so I closed the door and latched it while I tried to figure out what was going on... Immediately the people who had came and left when they saw me rang the bell and I answered once I had got dressed.

One of the women claimed she was the owner and that she was sorry because she thought I was renting a different unit of hers. Then she said she wanted to take the table from the kitchen because she uses it for cooking and also wanted to take a bunch of the kitchen supplies out of the cabinets.

So she takes the table from the kitchen and the supplies and then she leaves. I was totally shocked. After all of the issues and lies that I had been through that was the final straw, and I began looking for another place to live. The agent told me the owner was a man, but 3 women show up and one claims she is the owner and didn't know I lived there? I basically didn't feel comfortable living there anymore, and I think anyone else would feel the same way. I'm also feeling a little freaked out that people have access to the room like and I wanted to get my stuff out as soon as possible before telling the owner or face another intrusion.

So after another week I find another room and move my stuff out. I was there a total of 3 weeks. The agent had never brought me the signed copy of the lease from the owner (she put herself as the lessor), so I only have her contact details. I contact her and let her know all the things that happened and the reason I had to leave, starting with the fact that they did not deliver the washer/dryer as promised and ending with the fact that there was an intrusion from the "owner" who removed furnishings after I had already been living there.

In my lease there are two clauses. One states "If this lease is terminated before the end of the lease period, and the reason for termination is not due to fault of the lessor, the deposit should be refunded immediately upon termination." It also states that if there is a breach of contact a mediator will be provided to settle the issue.

1. The agent supposedly contacted the owner and says the owner refuses to refund my deposit of 60,000 baht because I did not stay there the entire lease duration although all the issues and the entry into the unit by someone the owner knows have been acknowledged.

2. The agent refuses to provide me the contact details of the owner. She states the the owner is "not comfortable" talking to me.

3. When I mention the mediator clause and the fact that it states in the contract that I should be refunded as all these issues are not due to any fault of mine, her response is "What are you going to do if he doesn't pay you?"

And as of today the agent simply does not answer my phone calls. This is two days after me leaving the place and turning in my key.

I've rented a lot of places and rented a few in Thailand and have never had any problems with anyone. In fact, most owners/agents have went above and beyond the make sure that I am happy, but this is just ridiculous. I would expect there to be some issues if I was renting a room for 5,000 baht per month, but to be lied to, have entry without permission and just complete disregard for my concerns on a room where I just handed someone 90,000 baht just blows my mind.

The 60,000 baht isn't a lot of money to me, but it disgusts me that I have been scammed, and either the agent or owner is trying to run off with my money and refuse to even talk to me. I suppose they know I am a foreigner and think that I cannot do anything, but I do not want to just give up on this when I know I have done nothing wrong here and I'm being screwed over.

What would you do in this situation? Since the agent will not talk to me and refuses to provide the info of the owner, I can only think to contact an attorney. A friend of mine looked at the lease and says that the clauses that state I'd be refunded were omitted from the thai language version... I'm sure on purpose as well.

Do I have a legal case to get my money back or am I really just stuck giving 90,000 baht for 3 weeks of hell to these crooks? If they had even attempted to talk to me I would've been happy to get just half of my deposit back and coughed the rest up to bad experience, but the fact that they're just ignoring me now and the fact that the eng version of the contract clearly states I am due a refund, I do not want them to have a penny that they shouldn't have.

Mate

You entered into a legal agreement with your eyes wide shut

Your downfall was to trust everthing and everyone that smiled your way

By the time you realized you were shafted it was way too late !!

Suck it up and move on !!!

[Kangaloo]

Hoping to get some advice from some people who have lived in Thailand a bit longer than I have or have experience with this kind of issue. Sorry that this will be a bit of a long read.

I recently rented a condo.

I went to view the condo with two agents that were supposedly friends with each other after viewing several condos that I turned down because they did not have a washer/dryer unit inside. I explicitly told the agents that I was not interested in any unit that did not have a washer/dryer, and if it had a washing machine that did not dry it was absolutely out of the question for me. I have allergies to certain types of detergent, so I must do all of my laundry and hanging clothes is not only time consuming but also puts a lot of wear on your clothes.

Anyway, the two agents talked me into a particular unit that did not have a washer/dryer and called the owner while I was viewing the unit and the agents and owner agreed to provide a washer/dryer in the unit if I agreed to the rental and paid for the unit. They also agreed to give me a very slight discount on the unit if I paid immediately... which I did. 30,000 baht for the first months rent and 60,000 baht for two months deposit. 90,000 baht total. The also agreed to replace a heavily damaged table which was in the living room.

The agent said that she needed a couple days to get the unit cleaned and have the washer and dryer installed, and we agreed that I would move in 2-3 days later. I received a receipt for the funds and a copy of the agent's id. Both agents were also very friendly, so I assumed that everything would be set.

So a couple days later, I make the long haul move from my previous place with all my stuff, and when I arrive to the condo I'm shocked to find that instead of providing me the washer/dryer as promised they placed a really ghetto 5,000 baht cold water-only washing machine with no dryer function. The room had not been cleaned, and the table was not replaced.

I told the agent that I was very disappointed that she didn't provide the washer/dryer as promised and asked for it to be replaced with what she promised. The response? "Cannot. It's already been bought" ... I began to raise a little hell, and then she said that she would replace it as soon as she rented one of her other units. She said that the table was not replaced because she did not have one that looked better than that.

Anyway, I was really tired from all the packing and moving and figured I would just replace the table myself or fix it and hope that I could live with the ghetto washing machine for a couple weeks while I waited for her to rent another of her units. She was quite convincing the whole time that she was an honest lady. So I signed the lease and moved in. I wasn't happy, but I also had a whole load of stuff with me, and didn't feel like I had much choice. The agent also signed the lease and said she was going to have the owner of the condo sign it and bring me a copy.

After they leave I begin to realize that they really had put no effort into the cleaning at all. The wiped the counters down and sweeped the floor so it wouldn't be obvious, but after they left I could see that there was mold, mildew and grime in the shower, the shelves were caked with dust, their were small spider nests in every corner of the room, the rugs were matted with filth. Basically once they took my money, they didn't give a damn.

I went to turn on the television and the air conditioners and the batteries were dead everywhere. Then I went to take a shower and the water didn't work! So I had to wait a day an a half for maintenance to come to fix the water. To top it off, I came to find out that there is someone living outside of the building right behind the unit who burned trash every single day, usually twice per day, so anytime I tried to hang my clothes out to dry, when I brought them in they smelled like smoke and burned trash. The internet was constantly broken.

Now by this time I'm beginning to realize I've made a horrible mistake, but I was praying that the agent would come through and give the washer/dryer as she promised and I would deal with all the other issues myself.

Then, about a week and a half into me living in the unit I am sleeping in the bed when I am awoke by the sound of strangers chattering in the kitchen. I get up and I am shocked to find that 3 people had entered the room, all female, and when they saw me standing there in only my underwear, they rush out and say sorry! Now I have never had an intruder in my room, so I didn't know what was going on and I was still dazed from just waking up, so I closed the door and latched it while I tried to figure out what was going on... Immediately the people who had came and left when they saw me rang the bell and I answered once I had got dressed.

One of the women claimed she was the owner and that she was sorry because she thought I was renting a different unit of hers. Then she said she wanted to take the table from the kitchen because she uses it for cooking and also wanted to take a bunch of the kitchen supplies out of the cabinets.

So she takes the table from the kitchen and the supplies and then she leaves. I was totally shocked. After all of the issues and lies that I had been through that was the final straw, and I began looking for another place to live. The agent told me the owner was a man, but 3 women show up and one claims she is the owner and didn't know I lived there? I basically didn't feel comfortable living there anymore, and I think anyone else would feel the same way. I'm also feeling a little freaked out that people have access to the room like and I wanted to get my stuff out as soon as possible before telling the owner or face another intrusion.

So after another week I find another room and move my stuff out. I was there a total of 3 weeks. The agent had never brought me the signed copy of the lease from the owner (she put herself as the lessor), so I only have her contact details. I contact her and let her know all the things that happened and the reason I had to leave, starting with the fact that they did not deliver the washer/dryer as promised and ending with the fact that there was an intrusion from the "owner" who removed furnishings after I had already been living there.

In my lease there are two clauses. One states "If this lease is terminated before the end of the lease period, and the reason for termination is not due to fault of the lessor, the deposit should be refunded immediately upon termination." It also states that if there is a breach of contact a mediator will be provided to settle the issue.

1. The agent supposedly contacted the owner and says the owner refuses to refund my deposit of 60,000 baht because I did not stay there the entire lease duration although all the issues and the entry into the unit by someone the owner knows have been acknowledged.

2. The agent refuses to provide me the contact details of the owner. She states the the owner is "not comfortable" talking to me.

3. When I mention the mediator clause and the fact that it states in the contract that I should be refunded as all these issues are not due to any fault of mine, her response is "What are you going to do if he doesn't pay you?"

And as of today the agent simply does not answer my phone calls. This is two days after me leaving the place and turning in my key.

I've rented a lot of places and rented a few in Thailand and have never had any problems with anyone. In fact, most owners/agents have went above and beyond the make sure that I am happy, but this is just ridiculous. I would expect there to be some issues if I was renting a room for 5,000 baht per month, but to be lied to, have entry without permission and just complete disregard for my concerns on a room where I just handed someone 90,000 baht just blows my mind.

The 60,000 baht isn't a lot of money to me, but it disgusts me that I have been scammed, and either the agent or owner is trying to run off with my money and refuse to even talk to me. I suppose they know I am a foreigner and think that I cannot do anything, but I do not want to just give up on this when I know I have done nothing wrong here and I'm being screwed over.

What would you do in this situation? Since the agent will not talk to me and refuses to provide the info of the owner, I can only think to contact an attorney. A friend of mine looked at the lease and says that the clauses that state I'd be refunded were omitted from the thai language version... I'm sure on purpose as well.

Do I have a legal case to get my money back or am I really just stuck giving 90,000 baht for 3 weeks of hell to these crooks? If they had even attempted to talk to me I would've been happy to get just half of my deposit back and coughed the rest up to bad experience, but the fact that they're just ignoring me now and the fact that the eng version of the contract clearly states I am due a refund, I do not want them to have a penny that they shouldn't have.

Mate

You entered into a legal agreement with your eyes wide shut

Your downfall was to trust everthing and everyone that smiled your way

By the time you realized you were shafted it was way too late !!

Suck it up and move on !!!

[bazza40]

You will find that there are detergents for top loading and for front loading machines.

I have seen the little pictograms on detergent packages for front- vs top-loading washers. For no particular reason, I had thought that only had to do with the granularity of the powder. So, the detergent for front-loaders is actually formulated for higher temps. Good to know!

The detergent for front loaders is formulated to foam less. Powder detergents are either soaps or sulphonates. Sulphonates work cold or hot, soaps work best hot. Sulphonates are more expensive.

My introduction to the concept of market saturation occurred as a trainee chemist for a large soap company. Housewives used to swear brand "A" was better than brand "B" and vice versa. In reality, the stuff came off the same production line and went into different packets.

Approximately 80% of the cost of a packet of soap powder is in advertising. Cheap soap powders contain a higher proportion of fillers such as sodium carbonate.

[fabphil]

som nom na...never pay a thai anything until the job is done...

[ripley]

I actually really enjoyed reading the OP's story, they write well. Sorry if this is off-topic but they wrote that hanging clothes to dry puts 'a lot of wear on' them. I'm just curious, how so? I just use a top-loader aka 'ghetto' machine and hang my clothes to dry because I'm too poor and cheap to buy a dryer, so surely spinning clothes dry puts more wear than hanging them out?

You know, I will admit the ghetto top loader did wash clothes alright. However most of my clothes are black and when you hang dry clothes they do not get the dryer motions which removes lint. So slowly lint particles build up on the black clothing and make them look bad. Also, when you hang dry clothes the weight of the wet clothes stretches out the seams, especially around the neck, so fitted clothes basically become not so fitted over time.

Besides clothes though, some things like towels feel stiff and scratchy after being hang dried, but are very soft when machine dried. I can't use fabric softener due to my allergies, so I am stuck with the stiff stuff. I like to wash my sheets once per week... I won't even get into how annoying/difficult it is to hang a huge wet sheet or duvet on a tiny balcony once per week.

Then it rains and you're screwed... And the amount of time to hang the wet clothes and take them down is quite inconvenient. A washer and dryer can have dirty clothes cleaned and dryed in a couple hours, but a washer only means you have to plan to have your stuff hanging out for about 6 hours for it to be completely dry maybe longer if you have a big load or it's not a sunny day.

It's definitely a matter of preference, but in my case having a washer/dryer seems to keep my clothing in better shape and saves me hours of time and work every week.

[ripley]

Never too old to learn! I think you're right about lint and softness. Keep in mind that a drier can shrink your clothes, tho.

[ripley]

Some weird replies to this Topic. Seems to me too many of them are borderline - or just crossing the border - racism. The attitude about the OP's problem is 'Never trust a Thai' and even that "all" Thai female agents are whores. Geez! Not to go all politically correct on you, but I do justI wonder about people who elect to stay in a country populated by a people they despise.

Apart from that, the topic appears to have got people's knickers in a bunch for some reason. And I can't remember ever reading a topic here that had quite this number of repetitive replies. How many times do we need to say "You made a mistake and have been screwed."?