geisha Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I've spent a long time in Phuket in the past. I fully know the local rip off s there and the brutal taxi scams . But ! I was there during the tsunami, and the Thai response in helping everyone , foreigners and Thais, was truly amazing! They gave everything they had to help, and I saw thai people take off their own shirts to give to foreigners in bathing suits. They were admirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarryP Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I know I will probably be shot down for this but is the giving of donations in Myanmar and Thailand not out of generosity or for altruistic reasons, but rather for self serving purposes, i.e. making merit for themselves. This same question could be asked of everyone who donates money, or time, or helps others. Is giving because it makes you feel good about yourself any different that merit making? Like instant gratification as opposed to being incarnated higher up the ladder? I would say feeling good about yourself is fine but not if it is given in the sense of making an investment, which it certainly is if you are doing it to stand you in good stead in the next life. Then that also beggars the question, do those who donate for their future also feel good about helping others or is it purely an investment and that is what they feel good about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUTHERNSTAR Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I know I will probably be shot down for this but is the giving of donations in Myanmar and Thailand not out of generosity or for altruistic reasons, but rather for self serving purposes, i.e. making merit for themselves. Does it matter? If your faith is one of the Western religions, don't you also donate money to your local church ?? Stop bashing the country where you live and work. I've been in Thailand for over 10 years. Great people ! I was not bashing. I was asking a question. I am atheist if you must know. I rarely donate but when I do it is because I want to help, not because it will serve me well in any future incarnation - if I believed in that. In other words I am not doing it to get something in return. I believe that if there were not so much emphasis made on making merit, "generosity" would be sorely lacking. As to "Does it matter?", to the recipients it should not matter one bit. But for the donors I am just interested in their motivation. Gary lets take religion out of it and look at what is actually taking place. Most poor Thai people will give because they want to give it is the way they where raised. Look when the monks walk in the mornings who are the people giving food to them. The traditional way of living in Thailand was one of sharing. Thai's will many time greet each other by asking if their friend/neighbor has eaten yet, implying if they have not they are welcome to eat together. Sharing food is an important part of Thai culture and doesn't have a religious connotation. Also in families there was traditionally build in support systems which unfortunately have been undermined by urbanization. Unfortunately most rich Thai's give because it buys face for them. These rich Thai's have undermined the Thai values regarding giving and making merit. Another tradition is never to splash out money on friends or on luxuries in public view. Even if someone is rich the traditional Thai way is not to show it. Many Thai's still live this way and frown on others (including foreigners) that throw around money. When my wife makes merit she puts the money in an envelope and thus the amount of money she gives will only be known by her and the monk. When however you give and advertise your gift and the size of it undermines the principles of making merit. So in the end the motive of giving will differ between people, but to say everyone gives because they are expecting something back is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarryP Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 If your faith is one of the Western religions, don't you also donate money to your local church ?? Stop bashing the country where you live and work. I've been in Thailand for over 10 years. Great people ! I was not bashing. I was asking a question. I am atheist if you must know. I rarely donate but when I do it is because I want to help, not because it will serve me well in any future incarnation - if I believed in that. In other words I am not doing it to get something in return. I believe that if there were not so much emphasis made on making merit, "generosity" would be sorely lacking. As to "Does it matter?", to the recipients it should not matter one bit. But for the donors I am just interested in their motivation. Gary lets take religion out of it and look at what is actually taking place. Most poor Thai people will give because they want to give it is the way they where raised. Look when the monks walk in the mornings who are the people giving food to them. The traditional way of living in Thailand was one of sharing. Thai's will many time greet each other by asking if their friend/neighbor has eaten yet, implying if they have not they are welcome to eat together. Sharing food is an important part of Thai culture and doesn't have a religious connotation. Also in families there was traditionally build in support systems which unfortunately have been undermined by urbanization. Unfortunately most rich Thai's give because it buys face for them. These rich Thai's have undermined the Thai values regarding giving and making merit. Another tradition is never to splash out money on friends or on luxuries in public view. Even if someone is rich the traditional Thai way is not to show it. Many Thai's still live this way and frown on others (including foreigners) that throw around money. When my wife makes merit she puts the money in an envelope and thus the amount of money she gives will only be known by her and the monk. When however you give and advertise your gift and the size of it undermines the principles of making merit. So in the end the motive of giving will differ between people, but to say everyone gives because they are expecting something back is not true. Never said that everyone expects something back. In fact your explanation makes a lot of sense. I was simply posing the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotpoom Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 That is fantastic news, I'm really surprised.....whenever there is a world disaster I hear countries (including my own) spouting off about how generous they are known to be all over the world when it comes to donating.....but yet I can barley walk 50 yards down the road without bumping into homeless people begging on the street ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbalEd Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I know I will probably be shot down for this but is the giving of donations in Myanmar and Thailand not out of generosity or for altruistic reasons, but rather for self serving purposes, i.e. making merit for themselves. This same question could be asked of everyone who donates money, or time, or helps others. Is giving because it makes you feel good about yourself any different that merit making? Like instant gratification as opposed to being incarnated higher up the ladder? I would say feeling good about yourself is fine but not if it is given in the sense of making an investment, which it certainly is if you are doing it to stand you in good stead in the next life. Then that also beggars the question, do those who donate for their future also feel good about helping others or is it purely an investment and that is what they feel good about? I'd say giving charitable donations and doing other good deeds is an investment in my future feelings of self worth. Actually whoever figured out the merit-making thing was very smart. Only on TV.com could so many turn a good thing like charity giving into a self-centered, selfish act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickylies Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Thais are groups-people not wanting to do/be different or "abnormal" so if one donates it's guaranteed that friends, neighbours, colleagues etc will follow. At that point donating files under sanook and we all know how important that is for thais. I'm not a big fan of sanouk myself as it's too often childish and shallow behaviour but then I'm probably not as 'happy' as Thai people...a price I'm willing to pay for being sceptical and critical... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyO Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 For those of you who didn't read the actual report and are debating if the exceptionally high 'donation' rates were due to the amount of alms giving for Buddhism, it appears so as part of the report explicitly says that particular nations who are Buddhist such as Myanmar and Thailand's figures will be impacted by holidays in which giving for Buddhism is considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbalEd Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Thais are groups-people not wanting to do/be different or "abnormal" so if one donates it's guaranteed that friends, neighbours, colleagues etc will follow. At that point donating files under sanook and we all know how important that is for thais. I'm not a big fan of sanouk myself as it's too often childish and shallow behaviour but then I'm probably not as 'happy' as Thai people...a price I'm willing to pay for being sceptical and critical... Preferring being skeptical and critical (pessimistic?) to being more happy somehow doesn't seem like a fair trade, to me. But, what ever makes you happy ... or not ... I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoon Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Overall, the top 10 most generous countries are: Myanmar United States of America New Zealand Canada Australia United Kingdom Netherlands Sri Lanka Ireland Malaysia Burundi was ranked bottom of the 145 countries in the Index with China, Yemen and Lithuania just above them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishJohn Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I helped out for a charity group for a while - around the time of the Ayutthayah flooding (and when I got my first proper taste of what Pheu-Thai were all about : they didn't do a thing to help - they were busy organising Thaksins football match with Cambodia). I was truly amazed by how many people gave up their time to come and help packing the donations (food, cooking oil etc) and the Army sent trucks to carry it all to those who needed it. As it turned out, the guy who devoted almost every waking hour to this cause was also shagging as many of the volunteers as he could and he used charity money to keep his own truck going (which he had worn out driving everywhere) because he didn't have a penny to his name most of the time and relied on his cheeky nature for others to give him stuff. It all collapsed after a big, public bust up with his wife one night. With his loss of face, he legged it and is doing the same somewhere else with a new set of volunteers. I learned a lot about Thais during that time. One of the main things was that the Army cares a lot more about the people than the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Does it matter? Sure it does! Why? Others have pointed this out already: if I am banging my own drum for being "generous" in terms of "donating money to good courses", shouldn't it be, that the money given, is given because of an urge to help? If it is given, so I get something back (as in merit for my next life- circle) it is not really "donating" than rather more "buying"! Donating to a good course, has to be done out of selfless motives! Most Thais don't do that! I said most- not all! And yes: I received acts of selfless help from Thai- people myself! Still- the actions of a few, do not make the whole population "the world's most generous"! Nobody gives out of purely selfless motives. We do it because it makes us feel like better people, or because it assuages our guilt at living a life of luxury compared to half the world. Who gives a shit, as long as the people in need get some help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupatria Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 And how much of the money the temples fork in will benefit the needy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balo Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) I woild rate Norway on top of that list of being generous since we "donate" billion of dollars to poor people around the world and refugees. But I guess they never asked them. Edited November 13, 2015 by balo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gomangosteen Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) In my home country, they have professional collectors who are paid a commission. Yes, I see NZ high up on the list, but wonder how much actually makes it to the cause being supported Tourist areas, particularly Auckland, saturated with professional fundraisers from UK and USA. "Chuggers'' charity muggers. Charity marketer Cornucopia Consultancy offers to pay $1500 for return flights for people to work as collectors at intersections and footbridges in Auckland and other major cities. The commissions they and their agencies take is very high. Sign up for eg monthly contributions to Greenpeace, the collector gets your first year's donations as commission The Appco Group's own documents contain a pricing schedule of charges for collecting door-to-door for its charity clients, including WWF and Barnardo's. It shows that if donors agree to pay $20 a month, APPCO takes 100 per cent in the first year - all $240. APPCO's "tiered fee model" earns it a lower percentage for higher donations: when donors sign up to give $30 a month, it keeps $306 (85 per cent) of the first year's $360; at the $60-a-month level, it keeps $504 (70 per cent) of the $720 donated .http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10789631 Backpackers and tourists from Britain, Europe and America are even being offered free flights to New Zealand to work as "face-to-face" collectors - known in Australia as "chuggers" or "charity muggers". http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11283818 Edited November 13, 2015 by gomangosteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fang37 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Not cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboctok Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Good for them. I'm sure someone here will find a way to put a negative spin on this, though. You said it. I did it. But I believe it a valid question. Dear Garry, We are sorry to inform you that your application to put a negative spin on something has been unsuccessful. Rather than putting a negative spin, you have merely uncovered a negative aspect. We welcome you to try again. In any future application, you may wish to rely on imagination, rather than real experience. This strategy may assist you to put spin, rather than uncover facts. In any case, we wish you all the best with your projects. Yours sincerely, C. Further Vice Chair, International Spin Committee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky54 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Yes they love giving to monks for more buildings the wat does not need and to subsidize Samsung galaxy's all round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I wonder how many of the farang critics commenting in this have done anything for charity recently, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatproblem Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I don't know about Thais giving but I see them holding their hands out more than any other country I been too ,and asking for drinks and calling farangs kee née ow when not given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemrut Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I know I will probably be shot down for this but is the giving of donations in Myanmar and Thailand not out of generosity or for altruistic reasons, but rather for self serving purposes, i.e. making merit for themselves. Just like all the fundraisers in western countries isnt done for self-serving reasons such as socializing, making connections, greasing palms, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 thai!! generous?? the journalist certainly live in a cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I've spent a long time in Phuket in the past. I fully know the local rip off s there and the brutal taxi scams . But ! I was there during the tsunami, and the Thai response in helping everyone , foreigners and Thais, was truly amazing! They gave everything they had to help, and I saw thai people take off their own shirts to give to foreigners in bathing suits. They were admirable. do you know that several foreign country this sue thailand, over the tsunami scam. After the tsunami, foreigner did give dozens millions euro and this money was pocketed by the thai officials.... thai generous?! my @rss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapologist Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Myanmar, apparently, is the most generous nation and here is why: "the majority of Myanmarese people are highly devout Theravada Buddhists, regularly giving money and time to ordained monks and nuns, and for the upkeep of temples.". That kind of giving isn't what we imagine when we think of generosity. I think of national and international charity work. Disease, hunger, homelessness, that kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttthailand Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 And who receives all the money ? The Wat ? The poor ? The needy ? Schools ? I would guess the wats so they can build more temples to get more money. Only a guess ..... Take from the poor and give to the rich .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky54 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 If they are so generous why is it so hard to get them to repay a debt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nidieunimaitre Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 In Western Europe we have institutionalized giving to those in need. We call it "The Social Security System". It is financed by all taxpayers, and nowadays abused by many "in need". But in principle it is a superior system and far more civilized, rather than those in need having to hold out their hands to receive charity. Today's abuse of the system should not be a reason to abolish it. It should be a reason to improve the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaunduhpostman Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Oo so lovely, every Thai people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throatwobbler Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 As expected the anti Thai BIle appeared. I can only pity those poor people who have chosen to live in a place they hate and have surrounded themselves with people they hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throatwobbler Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Let me one of the first Throatwobbler, donating to charity is giving something freely, not a Thai, they either want or demand something in return. Mind you I will take this report with a grain of salt as I do with all reports, polls or claims by Thais. So I see you have very little experience of living in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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