A year ago, I got a quote from kaiser Permanente at 495 usd per month for health cover....most Thais live off less than that, and since I own my condo, I generally do to, except for an insurance policy I carry here that is paid for with an annuity.

A few eeks ago I was watching my uni in Virginia play football. People were sending them emails from all over the world. They commented that many grads now live in the Dallas area, which wasn't surprising, but they noted San Diego as number 2, but it just proves how attractive that lifestyle is for the twenties crowd, and in turn that just keeps driving up rents and driving down wages....for that reason I say it is way over-rated. My uncle was sent to Pendleton in 1970, and they bought an adobe house in Vista for about 25K, you could see the ocean from the roof. They liked it, but they had their issues with accidents with uninsured mexicans, somewhat bad schools, and a general high cost of living. They sold for about 250K in 1993, moved to Dallas, and never looked back for one second, but to move there now, and spend 500K for the same house/same schools, tough job market, I just can't see it, and that is likely why so many Californians have moved to Tucson, many laughing all the way to the bank.

Well, I'm also an ex-Californian by way of (we don't have all day). Hmm.

Thanks people for the feedback of Phoenix vs. Tucson.

It's hard to tell without at least visiting.

I think at this stage of my life I may be more easily pleased with simple pleasures, such as not being homeless.

Not expecting the moon.

New Yawk? or Bahstun?

New Yawk? or Bahstun?

I did look at Queens.

Incredible food but rents too damn high!

Boston. Been there, done that, no thank you, and also of course very expensive (and cold).

Yep. I've really been around!

The only place I failed in a real attempt to move to was Manhattan. Checked it out. Ran away with my head between my legs!

If you can't make it there, you can't make it anywhere? Not sure about that.

Before I identified Rochester N.Y. as a sophisticated semi-affordable cold rust belt option in the same class as Cleveland.

I said it before but one thing that really shocked me about Cleveland was how high the real estate taxes are even on a cheap place. OMG.

I thought Cleveland had a good vibe, and upstate New York is nice....cheap housing, also plagued by sky high RE taxes. Great Italian food in Rochester, used to be some old Tech companies there like Xerox, Kodak, and IBM....they were not a part of the semi-conductor revolution, though. I liked Pittsburgh, too, and talk about the good Italian food...but in their case and also Cleveland, Detroit, and Baltimore...you've just got that old failed industrial base, and people can't move on, like a lot of the loggers can't get over the decimation of the timber industry. You go to a bar in Pittsburgh, and they are still brooding over their beers about the steel crash and the good ole days of local xxx, and they're too good to work at walmart, etc...and those damn Chinese that we tax 260% on their steel imported into the US, well they've ruined everything. Gets old. They ratchet up the taxes, and property values go down, so they have to keep ratcheting...a vicious cycle. I'll dig up some RE photos of Baltimore...it's a lot like Oakland, a port City, pro sports, a strong blue collar heritage, but it also has Johns Hopkins, and it's the new commuter Hell for people making good money in DC, but can't afford city life, there. Sky high taxes.

Two row houses one in DC, bad schools, not a great neighborhood...the other in Baltimore, bad schools not a great neighborhood..not the worst...one is for sale for 42,500 the other is 1,095,000. Can you tellwhich is which? 30 miles apart.

Don't know about Cleveland, but I found Pittsburgh to be boring. And COLD! Same with Philly. And both have some very dodgy neighborhoods. Nice if you have a good day during the summer...easy to get out in the woods and enjoy nature.

My Mom is 70, lives in La Mesa, a small subburb city of San Diego. Tidy little town with an emerging younger scene in the quaint downtown area being renovated, but it's still an quiet, aged community IMO, lots of silver hair around.

She got into her nice duplex moo ban around $225,000 about 10 years ago I think, with a big lump sump down, so her mortgage is only $300 something/mo.

She makes it on Social Security and Int/Dividends, so about $2,000/mo. With all the other add ons - house & car insurance, medical, utilities, moo ban association fee is $225/mo!, life support/groceries, she doesn't have much left over to do a whole lot. She cruises the antique shops and nurseries for fun, tinkers around in her small back garden. Considered Vegas as she's got a family friend over there, but that never went anywhere. She would rather live carefully than live anywhere else.

So, it's doable on low, fixed income but yeah, the big nut cruncher is breaking into that high cost housing market.

Even with a mortgage free house, you could still be looking at 1000 per month for taxes, hoa, utilities, insurance, and minimal maintenance.

Even with a mortgage free house, you could still be looking at 1000 per month for taxes, hoa, utilities, insurance, and minimal maintenance.

We have had a mortgage free house for many years and I often wonder how we had any spending money in those days when we had a mortgage on top of all the other stuff.

Fact is it seems the US is certain ways worse than a developing country. Is there any place in Thailand that is actually horrible if one has a small bit of dosh coming in?

I know of none.

Fact is it seems the US is certain ways worse than a developing country. Is there any place in Thailand that is actually horrible if one has a small bit of dosh coming in?

I know of none.

Not sure but in the US the rent is too damn high!

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/its-not-just-poor-who-cant-make-rent-n478501

https://newrepublic.com/article/124476/dispossessed-land-dreams

A lesser known US city. Lots of Romney bumper stickers....very few Africans.

SLC has a very good rep these days and is also popular with GLBT people which is surprising to many because of the horrific anti-gay policies of the Mormon church. Of course Utah has no expanded Medicaid.

TBH, a number of people I've known had to go there for work and didn't like it.....it is beautiful, and their economy is doing pretty well, at the moment. If you can show an income of 12K per year, you can get health insurance for almost nothing, even where they didn't expand Medicaid.

Oregon is murder on property taxes, and their State income tax is bad, too.

Only partially true. Oregon has no sales tax and a very low fee for car license, as opposed to Kalifornicate and others. I think every state has a way to "get you" and if it's important, a person should think about "where" they get you. For instance in Oregon if you're low income but own a home, you're probably exempt from any income taxes and Oregon will let you defer your property taxes until/unless you sell or die once you reach 62 if your net worth is below $500K. Your estate has to pay all of those liens if you die, or you do if you sell. As long as you live there, you're free. LINK

Typical yard in a cheap townhouse in Tucson.

Brown / Sand / Dirt.

I've never had a "yard" like that.

What is it good for?

What do you do in it? Breed scorpions?

Typical yard in a cheap townhouse in Tucson.

Brown / Sand / Dirt.

I've never had a "yard" like that.

What is it good for?

What do you do in it? Breed scorpions?

20151020162321971456000000-o.jpg

"pink rock" at 20 bucks per ton is the way to go. Usually it's the midwesterners who move to the desert and insist on having a grass lawn, which isn't native to the desert and humidifies the dry air...one reason the environmentalists hate the golf courses...but at least the golf courses have access to non-potable water. Your sewer bill is determined by your water usage, which gets progressively more expensive. No lawn, water/sewer=25 per month...and you can flush your toilet, wash clothes, shower....without restrain...maintaining 4000 sf of grass....now 80 per month for water and sewer, and another 80 per month for landscapers, that you don't need with the rock.

No problem. I hate dealing with lawns. I just find that patch of dirt to be a downer.

Typical yard in a cheap townhouse in Tucson.

Brown / Sand / Dirt.

I've never had a "yard" like that.

What is it good for?

What do you do in it? Breed scorpions?

< snip >

That courtyard looks a bit like this:

Exactly what I was thinking!

Oregon is murder on property taxes, and their State income tax is bad, too.

Only partially true. Oregon has no sales tax and a very low fee for car license, as opposed to Kalifornicate and others. I think every state has a way to "get you" and if it's important, a person should think about "where" they get you. For instance in Oregon if you're low income but own a home, you're probably exempt from any income taxes and Oregon will let you defer your property taxes until/unless you sell or die once you reach 62 if your net worth is below $500K. Your estate has to pay all of those liens if you die, or you do if you sell. As long as you live there, you're free. LINK

Could live near the Columbia river on the Washington Side..(no income tax) and shop on the Oregon side...(No sales tax).

Fact is it seems the US is certain ways worse than a developing country. Is there any place in Thailand that is actually horrible if one has a small bit of dosh coming in?

I know of none.

There are plenty. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Try Samut Prakan sometime.

Some yards, in the less desirable neighborhoods, do look like that. But in the better areas, they are landscaped magnificently. With or without grass. Or with artificial grass. Xeriscape is the way to go.

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=landscape+yard+phoenix&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5pIzxxdzJAhVXCY4KHcffA-YQ_AUIBygB&biw=1655&bih=955

Is the op gonna work when he gets home? Makes a big difference in what's cheap and what isn't.

Oregon is murder on property taxes, and their State income tax is bad, too.

Only partially true. Oregon has no sales tax and a very low fee for car license, as opposed to Kalifornicate and others. I think every state has a way to "get you" and if it's important, a person should think about "where" they get you. For instance in Oregon if you're low income but own a home, you're probably exempt from any income taxes and Oregon will let you defer your property taxes until/unless you sell or die once you reach 62 if your net worth is below $500K. Your estate has to pay all of those liens if you die, or you do if you sell. As long as you live there, you're free. LINK

Could live near the Columbia river on the Washington Side..(no income tax) and shop on the Oregon side...(No sales tax).

It's complex. I can go over the border from Oregon to Washington and buy a new car or other consumer goods and they'll waive their sale tax. If a resident of Washington comes over the border and buys a new car they'll ding him for the sales tax and their high registration and license plate fees when he tries to register it and get Washington plates. Yes, normal small daily shopping done by people of Washington in Oregon saves them the sales tax. There's a lot of that going on.

I have a friend in Washington who bought a new car and the sales tax and high registration and license fees on that car equaled my property tax bill. If I buy a new car it costs me $160 for license and title and registration for 4 years - all in. No sales tax. They get me on property and income tax.

If my property was of low value and my income was low, I'd cruise with few taxes. Again, a person needs to weigh his situation against each state's tax rules and make sure he isn't going to get hammered.

Oregon is murder on property taxes, and their State income tax is bad, too.

Only partially true. Oregon has no sales tax and a very low fee for car license, as opposed to Kalifornicate and others. I think every state has a way to "get you" and if it's important, a person should think about "where" they get you. For instance in Oregon if you're low income but own a home, you're probably exempt from any income taxes and Oregon will let you defer your property taxes until/unless you sell or die once you reach 62 if your net worth is below $500K. Your estate has to pay all of those liens if you die, or you do if you sell. As long as you live there, you're free. LINK

Could live near the Columbia river on the Washington Side..(no income tax) and shop on the Oregon side...(No sales tax).

It's complex. I can go over the border from Oregon to Washington and buy a new car or other consumer goods and they'll waive their sale tax. If a resident of Washington comes over the border and buys a new car they'll ding him for the sales tax and their high registration and license plate fees when he tries to register it and get Washington plates. Yes, normal small daily shopping done by people of Washington in Oregon saves them the sales tax. There's a lot of that going on.

I have a friend in Washington who bought a new car and the sales tax and high registration and license fees on that car equaled my property tax bill. If I buy a new car it costs me $160 for license and title and registration for 4 years - all in. No sales tax. They get me on property and income tax.

If my property was of low value and my income was low, I'd cruise with few taxes. Again, a person needs to weigh his situation against each state's tax rules and make sure he isn't going to get hammered.

Yup, WA does not care where you purchase a car, truck or RV - you will pay WA sales tax. If you purchase that vehicle in a state with sales tax and that tax is lower than the tax in WA - and with WA sales tax rates among the highest in the US that is likely the case - when you register the vehicle in WA you will pay the difference.

Other than that, it is a nice situation to be able to buy so much other stuff with no sales tax.

"'Pink rock' at 20 bucks per ton is the way to go."

Trulia, 64480 E Round Robin Lane, Tucson:

"'Pink rock' at 20 bucks per ton is the way to go."

Trulia, 64480 E Round Robin Lane, Tucson:

Tucson.jpg

That really looks nice.

but not buying a property based on its landscaping is like not buying because of the bathroom paint color. Don't focus on things that can be easily changed.

My back and front yard in 85648. Paid 47,500 3/1/2 car carport on 1.02 acres. That's Mt. Wrightson in the bg of the first...9453 ft. also, Whipple Observatory on Mt. Hopkins..In the last one you can see the deer, and Miller Peak way in the background at 9470 ft.

I wasn't suggesting I would reject a place based on that. I've never lived in a desert so a picture like that is a clue about the CULTURE SHOCK there.