Scenes of horror as a Paris night becomes a bloodbath

[Linky]

My GF is a Thai Muslim but only just, extremely moderate however she will not say that what is happening is wrong (re the cartoon killings) and heaven forbid if I say a bad word about Alah! she goes deadly serious and its off topic. So its not just extremists its nearly all Muslims, they will not condone terror attacks

Mine condemns them and says they are not muslims, just using islam as an excuse.

Perhaps my gf is more moderate

[tropo]

Possibly but her answer will effect our relationship if we end up being at opposite ends of the moral compass

It's good to see you have doubts. Also consider that what she "answers" may not be what she really feels, especially if you're seen as a potential future nest egg. The GF stage is usually not the most transparent stage of a relationship.

[micmichd]

My GF is a Thai Muslim but only just, extremely moderate however she will not say that what is happening is wrong (re the cartoon killings) and heaven forbid if I say a bad word about Alah! she goes deadly serious and its off topic. So its not just extremists its nearly all Muslims, they will not condone terror attacks

She's still your GF? Have you not considered the personal danger you could be in with a GF who doesn't condemn such slaughter? (and she's just a moderate). Anyone who doesn't condemn such unprovoked attacks on innocent people has no respect for human lives and would not be the wisest partner choice IMHO.

Fortunately my Christian wife was horrified to see these attacks. She's not exactly a Muslim fan and what you just said above is a good reason never to be.

In the Philippines people are actually scared of Muslims. That's their first reaction when they see them, not hate. They are terrified. It's not a surprising reaction considering the atrocities committed by Muslims in Mindanao. The Maguindanao massacre in 2009 comes to mind and one of the best examples. (worst atrocity)

The other way around actually, she would take a bullet for me, fiercely loyal woman. I was referring to the cartoons that directly insulted the imaginary one. All Muslims believe that its not acceptable. This situation again is different as there was no direct insult to Alah but just senseless killing and Im keen to see what her thoughts are although I imagine she would be horrified

But who's more important in her life? You or Allah? She may only take a bullet for you until you step out of line. You've also got her family members (probably a big family) to consider. You've got time - she's only a GF at this stage, right?

Most of us enjoy free speech in our lives. How free are you to express your own opinions?

What's this kind of unrest you try to stir?

I also had Muslim girlfriends, none of them were fundamentalistic.

[harford]

The was a historically significant act of war of Islamists against the entirety of western civilization.

Charlie Hebdo could be "explained" and more marginalized as revenge against a provocative satirical magazine and also the usual Jew hatred (muddied by conflating all the Jews in the world as active soldiers of the state of Israel).

So the general public could still feel, well it's only about "them" those others that provoke the Islamists and of course Jews who are widely hated anyway.

They could choose not to provoke the Islamists with cartoons and Jews, who really cares about Jews?

This is different. Bigger. This is a message for ALL of us in the world who are NOT Islamists.

I think this change in tactics was intentional and this message was intentional. It's not only about free speech cartoons, it's not only about Jews ...

they're after ALL of us.

Message received.

Was not the massacre of mainly British tourists in Tunisia a similar event, in that the victims were random targets.

Sent from my P330X using Tapatalk

[dageurreotype]

No, the muslim lady asked what the west was doing to eradicate extremism. Not verbatim.

The host then spewed some vitriol against her and muslims about what they were or were not doing.

Not once did she answer the question.

So yes, very enlightening how to not answer a question but instead attack the questioner.

I don't know where you've been but it has been oft asked in the West 'Where are the Muslim leaders speaking out about this?' met with deafening silence. So I am asking YOU. Where are they? Perhaps you could provide a link instead of obfuscating. No? Thought not.

[houston]

The was a historically significant act of war of Islamists against the entirety of western civilization.

Charlie Hebdo could be "explained" and more marginalized as revenge against a provocative satirical magazine and also the usual Jew hatred (muddied by conflating all the Jews in the world as active soldiers of the state of Israel).

So the general public could still feel, well it's only about "them" those others that provoke the Islamists and of course Jews who are widely hated anyway.

They could choose not to provoke the Islamists with cartoons and Jews, who really cares about Jews?

This is different. Bigger. This is a message for ALL of us in the world who are NOT Islamists.

I think this change in tactics was intentional and this message was intentional. It's not only about free speech cartoons, it's not only about Jews ...

they're after ALL of us.

Message received.

What does means the word Islamists in this context?

Any person believes in Islam and follow Islam is considered as an Islamist, right?

These bombing attackers, ISIS members and their similar types are just vagabond dogs, they do not know any thing about Islam, or what Islam saying, many of them who migrated from western countries they were deeply involved in vagabond life style, and suddenly get involved with these misguided vagabonds and get involved in these devil activities,, and the global propaganda takes the initiative to do the rest of the job by marketing their activities as Islamists and promoting the event to be counted on Islam in result, good job...!!!

Islam is a religion. Islamists or muslims are people who practice Islam religion.

ISIS is a Jihadist community, it's the radical branch of Islam, also called the Islam extremist.

Jihadist is people who do the Jihad. The Jihadist means the "islamic warrior" as described in the islamic book.

The Jihad is the quest to propagate Islam over the world and the application of the strict islamic law (charia law) for everybody.

The jihad was practiced by Islam in ancient time to get influence (conquest for territory, and so influence) against Boudist, then catholic. For this the Jihad is a part described in Islamic sacred bible, that made the ISIS radical branch of Islam to use the jihad for their extremist quest of expansion.

I think the history and the vocabulary is important. I will say ISIS is a radical branch of Islam and others are temperate branch of Islam.

That makes everybody sometimes confusing and misunderstanding, maybe not using the right terminology.

The real problem is how to tract the Jihadist terrorist who hide among normal civilian or who hide inside the islam community.

Also the problem of western countries with immigrant politic that open the way for some extremist to infiltrate to the country for terrorism actions.

That the epic question for governement to solve and for this Le Pen rises in France ...

[tropo]

What's this kind of unrest you try to stir?

I also had Muslim girlfriends, none of them were fundamentalistic.

Maybe you've had so many Muslim GF's you've started thinking like them. I am expressing my opinion on here but you think I'm trying to stir unrest?

No, I am not trying to stir unrest, and disagreeing with the teachings of Allah is not intended to stir unrest. By all means, disagree with my Christian beliefs - I will not shoot anyone for doing so. I won't even get angry.

[Thaidream]

There are to many people of the Muslim faith that try and convert everyone who is not Muslim and when they cannot- they denigrate that person's religion. I have had Muslim acquaintances that start in by asking me what my religion is. I have had acquaintances from many other religions that could care less what religion I am. Muslims need to respect the fact that not everyone is or wants to be Muslim and until they do this kind of clash will continue. I want to believe that Islam is a religion of peace but I am not seeing much peace these days.

[tropo]

There are to many people of the Muslim faith that try and convert everyone who is not Muslim and when they cannot- they denigrate that person's religion. I have had Muslim acquaintances that start in by asking me what my religion is. I have had acquaintances from many other religions that could care less what religion I am. Muslims need to respect the fact that not everyone is or wants to be Muslim and until they do this kind of clash will continue. I want to believe that Islam is a religion of peace but I am not seeing much peace these days.

Life would be so much easier if religion wasn't brought out onto the street for all to see. Most of us are just trying to be people when we go out into public places.

[simple1]

No, the muslim lady asked what the west was doing to eradicate extremism. Not verbatim.

The host then spewed some vitriol against her and muslims about what they were or were not doing.

Not once did she answer the question.

So yes, very enlightening how to not answer a question but instead attack the questioner.

I don't know where you've been but it has been oft asked in the West 'Where are the Muslim leaders speaking out about this?' met with deafening silence. So I am asking YOU. Where are they? Perhaps you could provide a link instead of obfuscating. No? Thought not.

Ever though about using Google search e.g. try "el sisi extremism", but to help you out have a read of the content at the URLs below.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/02/why-dont-more-moderate-muslims-denounce-extremism/

http://time.com/4112830/muslims-paris-terror-attacks-islam-condemn/

[momtaz]

paris.jpg

[Steely Dan]

many anti-Islam they take advantage of such occasions to say: look how this ideology? look how Islam is?

if we use a little logical thinking to come up with a reasonable conclusion we'll find the true that these killers are highly condemned and accused in Islam and from the holy book of Quran, whoever killed one single innocent person same as killed everyone,

However, you racist and anti-Islam keep trying all your best, you will never cause any harm to this the most and fastest religion that keeps spreading over the glob,

this terror activity is first condemned and most accused in Islam,

these vagabond dogs they may rest in the hell forever, they are not belong to humanity or any religion,

What you say is false.

Muhammad in the second part of the Qur'an (Koran of Medina) clearly calls for the killing of infidels almost every page. All us therefore, and particularly the 128 of Paris.

4.89: "They would like as their sombriez yourself in disbelief that you're at the same point (sawa ') than them. Do not take them for friends as they will not have emigrated for the cause of God, and if they turn away, you grab them and kill them wherever you find them. And do not take them as allies or supporters for! "

4.90: "[kill them wherever you find them] with the exception of those who visit a tribe (qawn) to which you are bound by a treaty or those who come find you a heavy heart at the thought of you fight or fight their tribe; if God had willed, He would have made you masters and they would have fought you. Also, if they avoid you, do not fight you and offer you their submission, God will not allow you to show their hostility. "

etc ...

Like it or not Islamist murderers of Christians or Jews are simply good Muslims.

Is why we are in a complete impasse with that.

There is no such (Qur'an of Medinah)

The verse your trying to say: 4:89 have to read the full context to know what is the topic talking about, beside that the translation is not accurate as the native script,

Muslims when they established their regime in Spain, the minority of Jews who living there were given their full freedom to practice and teach their believe freely, while under the christian rulers before Islam they were not allowed, read the history about this,

Islam is a religion and open ideology for all, that's why most nations accepted,

if look around the world, there is no single country have no Muslim citizens, even to be a small minority, maybe except north Korea,

who adopted Islam in the west? have little search on google, youtube to see and listen them what they are saying,

these devil events are mastered by some bigger devil mind intelligence agencies to market a bad image about Islam and Muslims, and many narrow minded and blind heart people they absorb the trick to prove their hater feelings to Islam,

Like it or not, Islam is a religion of peace, and will keep spreading among the most intellectual westerners, because Islam ideology is based on logical thinking structure,

these devil terrors are not from Islam and never represent Islam, only to bring more blind dark hearts to campaign against Islam and accuse this action to blame it on Islam,

As usual it's nothing to do with Islam except by way of a conspiracy to make Islam look bad. Well Islam needs no outside help in looking bad, it does fine on its own in that respect.

P.s as for context of verses, how come so many Muslims seem to misunderstand their peaceful and tolerant religion, or is that also an outside conspiracy?

[dageurreotype]

No, the muslim lady asked what the west was doing to eradicate extremism. Not verbatim.

The host then spewed some vitriol against her and muslims about what they were or were not doing.

Not once did she answer the question.

So yes, very enlightening how to not answer a question but instead attack the questioner.

I don't know where you've been but it has been oft asked in the West 'Where are the Muslim leaders speaking out about this?' met with deafening silence. So I am asking YOU. Where are they? Perhaps you could provide a link instead of obfuscating. No? Thought not.

Ever though about using Google search e.g. try "el sisi extremism", but to help you out have a read of the content at the URLs below.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/02/why-dont-more-moderate-muslims-denounce-extremism/

http://time.com/4112830/muslims-paris-terror-attacks-islam-condemn/

First off, I've read the Washington Post article before and STILL I ask why are these moderate Muslim leaders purportedly unable to have their voices heard given that the overwhelming majority of mainstream media is for them and their proliferation in Europe? Perhaps you could expand?

I don't read that rag 'Time' and use Bing, not ad infested Google. Next!

Edited November 15, 2015 by dageurreotype

[Pakboong]

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -- Bertrand Russell

[GAZZPA]

<snip>

If anyone has seen public condemnation from the Muslim community please post it.

Some examples...

http://time.com/4112830/muslims-paris-terror-attacks-islam-condemn/

Thank you for sending this, I am genuinely pleased to read this.

[uptheos]

As has been repeatedly shown in this and other topics; they do, frequently, and have done right from the start. Another example: Muslim Leaders Worldwide Condemn ISIS

You say you recognise the truth. So why won't you recognise the truth that Islamist terrorists do not represent Islam and the truth that the overwhelming majority of Muslims worldwide are as sickened and appalled by the events in Paris last night, and all the other atrocities committed by terrorist who claim to be Muslim, as you and I?

Who do you think is currently fighting ISIS on the ground? It aint the tooth fairy!

Nevertheless, there is hardly any country worldwide that is not affected by Muslim fanaticism. Thailand`s deep south is a typical example. Fanatical Muslim extremism is as bigger threat to world peace today as were the Axis powers during the second world war, only this time not only do countries have the enemy outside but also within.

You mention the good and the bad Muslims, but how is the average Joe mean`t to tell the difference? No one knows who and where is going to be targeted next and when any of us or our families are going to be in the wrong places at the wrong times.

Islam has become a worldwide menace and regardless of their walks of life, no Muslims can now be trusted, everyone of them must be considered suspect. Sorry, but that`s the way it is.

You can't so you need to make a decision, I've made mine.

[uptheos]

There are to many people of the Muslim faith that try and convert everyone who is not Muslim and when they cannot- they denigrate that person's religion. I have had Muslim acquaintances that start in by asking me what my religion is. I have had acquaintances from many other religions that could care less what religion I am. Muslims need to respect the fact that not everyone is or wants to be Muslim and until they do this kind of clash will continue. I want to believe that Islam is a religion of peace but I am not seeing much peace these days.

Sure and I want to believe in the tooth fairy.

Edited November 15, 2015 by uptheos

[alanrchase]

No, the muslim lady asked what the west was doing to eradicate extremism. Not verbatim.

The host then spewed some vitriol against her and muslims about what they were or were not doing.

Not once did she answer the question.

So yes, very enlightening how to not answer a question but instead attack the questioner.

I don't know where you've been but it has been oft asked in the West 'Where are the Muslim leaders speaking out about this?' met with deafening silence. So I am asking YOU. Where are they? Perhaps you could provide a link instead of obfuscating. No? Thought not.

Ever though about using Google search e.g. try "el sisi extremism", but to help you out have a read of the content at the URLs below.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/02/why-dont-more-moderate-muslims-denounce-extremism/

http://time.com/4112830/muslims-paris-terror-attacks-islam-condemn/

First off, I've read the Washington Post article before and STILL I ask why are these moderate Muslim leaders purportedly unable to have their voices heard given that the overwhelming majority of mainstream media is for them and their proliferation in Europe? Perhaps you could expand?

I don't read that rag 'Time' and use Bing, not ad infested Google. Next!

My, what a pleasant person you are.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Does this mean ISIS is on the varsity team now?

[brewsterbudgen]

here we have the results of letting in 1000000 so-called refugees into europe.

kick merkel out of office fast....

What nonsense. The refugees are fleeing from the same enemy that committed this atrocity.

So you don't suppose jihadists like those who perpetrated the atrocities in Paris are amongst them?

I would think it highly unlikely that one of the perpetrators was a genuine refugee who had fled from the horrors of Syria/ISIS.

[dageurreotype]

My, what a pleasant person you are.

Aw shucks you're making me blush

[Thorgal]

Does this mean ISIS is on the varsity team now?

French/Belgian police arrested a cell in Brussels. could be a link or future target due to the Belgian participation in the US coalition strikes in Syria/Iraq.

To know that next week Tuesday there's a friendly football game between Belgium and Spain.

Well, next year 2016 there should be UEFA European football tournament all over in France...

World cup 2018 is expected to be in Russia...

[Chicog]

here we have the results of letting in 1000000 so-called refugees into europe.

kick merkel out of office fast....

What nonsense. The refugees are fleeing from the same enemy that committed this atrocity.

So you don't suppose jihadists like those who perpetrated the atrocities in Paris are amongst them?

I would think it highly unlikely that one of the perpetrators was a genuine refugee who had fled from the horrors of Syria/ISIS.

I think it highly likely that at least a few of the millions of migrants are actually jihadists that have used this as an opportunity to get into Europe.

[Ghostnigel]

Did anyone else notice at the Stade de France, when the bombs went off, that the security made sure President Hollande was 'slid' away to safety...leaving ordinary people to be murdered, and to look out for themselves??????

These are the people who don't want this scum allowed into the country, and Hollande and his cronies allow them here to cause chaos and murder, but when it gets too close, they are the first ones to run and hide!!! Same for Cameron, and other leaders. They are the ones who can stop this, but they let the innocent people die first....they are so weak....grrrr!

[micmichd]

What's this kind of unrest you try to stir?I also had Muslim girlfriends, none of them were fundamentalistic.

Maybe you've had so many Muslim GF's you've started thinking like them. I am expressing my opinion on here but you think I'm trying to stir unrest?

No, I am not trying to stir unrest, and disagreeing with the teachings of Allah is not intended to stir unrest. By all means, disagree with my Christian beliefs - I will not shoot anyone for doing so. I won't even get angry.

You stir unrest if you force someone to decide between her god and her lover.

[NeverSure]

In reference to your last comment...

Do you have any Muslim friends? Or are you connected with any Muslims on social media?

Probably not.

Do you have any Muslim friends? Or are you connected with any Muslims on social media?

It's unlikely that many of us Westerners do. We're steadily learning to fear them, distrust them and avoid them like the plague especially since they might explode!

Englishmen who live in the culturally enriched parts of Bradford and East London should have plenty of experience regarding such matters.

I have Muslim friends.

I suspect that your Muslim friends also have a Muslim friend...

[Prbkk]

Did anyone else notice at the Stade de France, when the bombs went off, that the security made sure President Hollande was 'slid' away to safety...leaving ordinary people to be murdered, and to look out for themselves??????

These are the people who don't want this scum allowed into the country, and Hollande and his cronies allow them here to cause chaos and murder, but when it gets too close, they are the first ones to run and hide!!! Same for Cameron, and other leaders. They are the ones who can stop this, but they let the innocent people die first....they are so weak....grrrr!

Most countries have the same procedure. Guys are paid to do that job of take care.

The Stade de France attack was just symbolic...no way to get inside, the crowd was never in any real danger ( although probably very scared). Stopping soft target attacks such as those at Charlie Hebdo and yesterday's are extremely difficult. They could be carried out in any city or town in the world...and probably will become more frequent ( if not in the coordinated manner in Paris then lone wolf, guerrilla style).

[JHolmesJr]

Manual Valls; "We must expel all those radicalized imams"

AT LAST !!!!

How about put them on a plane that mysteriously runs out of fuel in midair. Expelling them achieves nothing…they will just conduct classes on the internet.

The aftermath is proceeding exactly as I thought….vigils, candles, people making the same stupid speeches…we are not afraid….we will not let anyone change our values….blablabla….im sick of listening to this twaddle every time some shit goes down.

The attackers don't care that you are not afraid…they just want to kill and create chaos and grab headlines.

Screw the liberal approach….you gotta get marine le pen on their asses.

[Thorgal]

Did anyone else notice at the Stade de France, when the bombs went off, that the security made sure President Hollande was 'slid' away to safety...leaving ordinary people to be murdered, and to look out for themselves??????

These are the people who don't want this scum allowed into the country, and Hollande and his cronies allow them here to cause chaos and murder, but when it gets too close, they are the first ones to run and hide!!! Same for Cameron, and other leaders. They are the ones who can stop this, but they let the innocent people die first....they are so weak....grrrr!

Most countries have the same procedure. Guys are paid to do that job of take care.

The Stade de France attack was just symbolic...no way to get inside, the crowd was never in any real danger ( although probably very scared). Stopping soft target attacks such as those at Charlie Hebdo and yesterday's are extremely difficult. They could be carried out in any city or town in the world...and probably will become more frequent ( if not in the coordinated manner in Paris then lone wolf, guerrilla style).

Apparently one of the 3 suicide bombers at the Stade de France had a valid ticket for the game, but he didn't came into the stadium thanks to the security screenings at the gates.

http://www.espnfc.com/france/story/2713064/paris-attacker-stopped-by-security-at-stadium-gate-report

Edited November 15, 2015 by Thorgal

[micmichd]

Did anyone else notice at the Stade de France, when the bombs went off, that the security made sure President Hollande was 'slid' away to safety...leaving ordinary people to be murdered, and to look out for themselves??????

These are the people who don't want this scum allowed into the country, and Hollande and his cronies allow them here to cause chaos and murder, but when it gets too close, they are the first ones to run and hide!!! Same for Cameron, and other leaders. They are the ones who can stop this, but they let the innocent people die first....they are so weak....grrrr!

Most countries have the same procedure. Guys are paid to do that job of take care.

The Stade de France attack was just symbolic...no way to get inside, the crowd was never in any real danger ( although probably very scared). Stopping soft target attacks such as those at Charlie Hebdo and yesterday's are extremely difficult. They could be carried out in any city or town in the world...and probably will become more frequent ( if not in the coordinated manner in Paris then lone wolf, guerrilla style).

Does this mean more people died of panic than by the actual attacks?