Are we being persecuted

[Shiver]

Udon is officially 12 midnight for closing other than night clubs and certain people with connections (or a Thai shop/restaurant)

I don't think they're picking on us particularly, just entertainment places rather than restaurants and similar. For example Mr Tongs here was a major attraction for a late night venue, but has been banned from operating for 5 years for flouting the law regarding closing time, and he used to snuggle up to people with influence before the new regime.

Went to immigration today for 30 extension and it was fast, efficient and polite.

[BlindMagician]

OP asked "are we being persecuted?"

Not much discussed relevant to that question.

[big carl]

OP asked "are we being persecuted?"

Not much discussed relevant to that question.

To my way of thinking persecuted means treated unfairly. Being picked on while no one else is. Apparently when it comes to immigration we are every one else is located in an area with a decent immigration office to deal with.

As for the bars no we are not the only ones being singled out. There are other areas where the law is being applied. Here in Chiang Mai it is a hit or miss thing.

I meant persecuted in relationship to those two topics only.

[howrub]

Other than Chiangmai Immigration, which as noted many times, is a nightmare, I've never felt persecuted here. However, lately, I do feel less welcomed. Not generally, but in a few places. Today I did my now and again escape from the city heat and congestion by riding up the mountain to Doi Pui. I skip the Doi Suthep temple, having seen it so many times and given how crowded it is.

I decided on a stop at the Mon Tha Than waterfall, which is located in a National Park. As I rode up I was asked for 100B. I said, in Thai, that I live in Chiangmai, and produced my Thai driving license. The woman consulted with someone else, and said "mai daay". I said, "used to work", and she acknowledged that it did, but said "no more". In keeping with my policy that I don't pay more than others, I thanked her and left.

[menzies233]

Big Carl, I am also in Chiang Mai and tend to agree with you that the immigration offices up here are maybe not persecuting us, but are making as many obstacles and hoop jumps for us as they can.

There is a definate sentiment in the area I live that they would be better off without White Foreigners. This has never been noticeable in my area before but it is now.

In some ways you cannot blame the average people as it is day after day there are news reports from all over Thailand of farangs ripping people off, scamming with bank cards etc. Who would blame them?

But as you mentioned with immigration up here, (that must be the worst in the country) they seem intent in making our lives as difficult as possible.

Firstly they split the immigration offices into Airport and Promenada, I have still been unable to find out which one transfers an extension to a new passport.

Then they removed the queue online service forcing people to have to go there at 4 and 5 AM to try and get an appointment.

I wrongly assumed that the move to promenada was to set up a new all encompassing immigration service, how wrong I was, it looks more like divide and conquer.

It also seems like the more negative press they get in the west the more they get the hump and make life more difficult for us and align themselves closer to China at every opportunity.

[Mudcrab]

used as a cash cow AND persecuted.

How much did she take you for?

[Mudcrab]

Big Carl, I am also in Chiang Mai and tend to agree with you that the immigration offices up here are maybe not persecuting us, but are making as many obstacles and hoop jumps for us as they can.

There is a definate sentiment in the area I live that they would be better off without White Foreigners. This has never been noticeable in my area before but it is now.

In some ways you cannot blame the average people as it is day after day there are news reports from all over Thailand of farangs ripping people off, scamming with bank cards etc. Who would blame them?

But as you mentioned with immigration up here, (that must be the worst in the country) they seem intent in making our lives as difficult as possible.

Firstly they split the immigration offices into Airport and Promenada, I have still been unable to find out which one transfers an extension to a new passport.

Then they removed the queue online service forcing people to have to go there at 4 and 5 AM to try and get an appointment.

I wrongly assumed that the move to promenada was to set up a new all encompassing immigration service, how wrong I was, it looks more like divide and conquer.

It also seems like the more negative press they get in the west the more they get the hump and make life more difficult for us and align themselves closer to China at every opportunity.

Perhaps they are looking at the bigger picture and can see no benefit to the country in encouraging large farang ghettos forming.

A lot of posters complain about the same situation in their home countries, why should Thailand be any different.

All the 'I contribute more to the economy than most Thais do' is irrelevant. Oil rich Arabs afford megabucks to Europe but who wants to be overrun by them...(ooops).

You cannot always buy yourself into acceptance no matter how hard you try to convince yourself.

Whether you admit it or not, a large farang population in a relatively small area does corrupt (get a dictionary) the local culture.

Many posters complain how the Thais cannot lose face - perhaps they are affording the farangs the same grace- no loss off face by being told to f.$$k off....just drop a few subtle hints and gently increase the pressure. Not a "crackdown" as such, just slowly slowly.

The posters who live away from the larger centres of farang concentration generally report no issues for them.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Mudcrab

[meltingpot2015]

used as a cash cow AND persecuted.

How much did she take you for?

I don't think we should talk about the good folks in immigration like that.

[MaeJoMTB]

I decided on a stop at the Mon Tha Than waterfall, which is located in a National Park. As I rode up I was asked for 100B. I said, in Thai, that I live in Chiangmai, and produced my Thai driving license. The woman consulted with someone else, and said "mai daay". I said, "used to work", and she acknowledged that it did, but said "no more". In keeping with my policy that I don't pay more than others, I thanked her and left.

Park at Wat Doi Suthep, walk down the trail to Monthathon Falls.

It's a nice trail past many other waterfalls, and no ticket office.

Trail starts at the 'sandpit' (up the first few temple steps, through the covered market to the toilet block and across the road)

[roo860]

I still dont understand whybpeople are spending even 1 mn in chiangmai..

?

[roo860]

Other than Chiangmai Immigration, which as noted many times, is a nightmare, I've never felt persecuted here. However, lately, I do feel less welcomed. Not generally, but in a few places. Today I did my now and again escape from the city heat and congestion by riding up the mountain to Doi Pui. I skip the Doi Suthep temple, having seen it so many times and given how crowded it is.

I decided on a stop at the Mon Tha Than waterfall, which is located in a National Park. As I rode up I was asked for 100B. I said, in Thai, that I live in Chiangmai, and produced my Thai driving license. The woman consulted with someone else, and said "mai daay". I said, "used to work", and she acknowledged that it did, but said "no more". In keeping with my policy that I don't pay more than others, I thanked her and left.

Why should you pay less?

[ggt]

If closing bars at midnight...and being hassled at immigration is your idea of being persecuted...then Yes...you may be in your own mind...

IMHO you have not been persecuted in Thailand until being thrown from a high rise hotel or condo...which the Thais will call suicide...

[duanebigsby]

I assume you're talking about the bars that cater to foreigners. And no, it's not the only place. Udon Thani has a small strip of girly bars and western bars, and to the best of my knowledge they all close around midnight. I imagine those are not the only two provinces that operate as such. With regards to immigration, Chiang Mai has one of the highest if not the highest concentrations of foreigners in Thailand. Seriously, last time I was up there in the downtown area, it was a bit of a struggle to find Thai people. I think I heard there are about 200,000 Thais living in Chiang Mai province and an estimated 100,000 foreigners.

3,000,000 Thais Vs 100,000 foreigners.

Immigration in CM is a disgrace.

Bar opening times are restricted all over the world, drink when they're open.

There are about 1.68 million Thais living in CM province. Best guesses as to foreigners, perhaps 200-300 thousand Countrywide.

Bangkok and Pattaya, perhaps Phuket, will have a greater concentration of foreigners than Chiang Mai by a long shot.

Google it.

[topt]

Udon is officially 12 midnight for closing other than night clubs and certain people with connections (or a Thai shop/restaurant)

I don't think they're picking on us particularly, just entertainment places rather than restaurants and similar. For example Mr Tongs here was a major attraction for a late night venue, but has been banned from operating for 5 years for flouting the law regarding closing time, and he used to snuggle up to people with influence before the new regime.

Went to immigration today for 30 extension and it was fast, efficient and polite.

Sorry if off topic but Mr Tongs is no more - or carrying on under "new" management?

[eldragon]

I assume you're talking about the bars that cater to foreigners. And no, it's not the only place. Udon Thani has a small strip of girly bars and western bars, and to the best of my knowledge they all close around midnight. I imagine those are not the only two provinces that operate as such. With regards to immigration, Chiang Mai has one of the highest if not the highest concentrations of foreigners in Thailand. Seriously, last time I was up there in the downtown area, it was a bit of a struggle to find Thai people. I think I heard there are about 200,000 Thais living in Chiang Mai province and an estimated 100,000 foreigners.

3,000,000 Thais Vs 100,000 foreigners.

Immigration in CM is a disgrace.

Bar opening times are restricted all over the world, drink when they're open.

There are about 1.68 million Thais living in CM province. Best guesses as to foreigners, perhaps 200-300 thousand Countrywide.

Bangkok and Pattaya, perhaps Phuket, will have a greater concentration of foreigners than Chiang Mai by a long shot.

Google it.

Do border runners count as residents? Anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm just speculating that maybe CM- and Thais as a whole- is not so hot about the foreigners there. Thais seem perfectly happy to let us have our crusty slum on the beach, but CM seems a bit sacred to many of the Thais I know. They all say there's too many foreigners there now. A lot of em are going to Chiang Khan now.

[TSF]

Not really much point asking questions on this forum is there big carl? The resident clowns just come flooding in taking the piss.

[GAZZPA]

its the cia and fbi and the new world order and the Alumini

Who are the Alumini? I thought this meant a group of former students in the West? Surely they aren't responsible? Do you mean the illuminati?

[bazza40]

Chiang Mai Immigration is much better at Promenada than near the airport, at least you can be comfortable now while waiting.

I employ an agent, which makes the process comparatively painless. Yes, if you can't afford an agent the process is a lot more protracted.

I haven't been to the Loi Kroh bars for about three years. Went there last night. Two major changes I've noticed in this high season - a huge increase in the number of young female backpackers. Second is the bars are dead, almost no falangs and the bar girls look so desperate Dracula could probably get a short-time.

[MisterTee]

Big Carl, I am also in Chiang Mai and tend to agree with you that the immigration offices up here are maybe not persecuting us, but are making as many obstacles and hoop jumps for us as they can.

There is a definate sentiment in the area I live that they would be better off without White Foreigners. This has never been noticeable in my area before but it is now.

In some ways you cannot blame the average people as it is day after day there are news reports from all over Thailand of farangs ripping people off, scamming with bank cards etc. Who would blame them?

But as you mentioned with immigration up here, (that must be the worst in the country) they seem intent in making our lives as difficult as possible.

Firstly they split the immigration offices into Airport and Promenada, I have still been unable to find out which one transfers an extension to a new passport.

Then they removed the queue online service forcing people to have to go there at 4 and 5 AM to try and get an appointment.

I wrongly assumed that the move to promenada was to set up a new all encompassing immigration service, how wrong I was, it looks more like divide and conquer.

It also seems like the more negative press they get in the west the more they get the hump and make life more difficult for us and align themselves closer to China at every opportunity.

Perhaps they are looking at the bigger picture and can see no benefit to the country in encouraging large farang ghettos forming.

A lot of posters complain about the same situation in their home countries, why should Thailand be any different.

All the 'I contribute more to the economy than most Thais do' is irrelevant. Oil rich Arabs afford megabucks to Europe but who wants to be overrun by them...(ooops).

You cannot always buy yourself into acceptance no matter how hard you try to convince yourself.

Whether you admit it or not, a large farang population in a relatively small area does corrupt (get a dictionary) the local culture.

Many posters complain how the Thais cannot lose face - perhaps they are affording the farangs the same grace- no loss off face by being told to f.$$k off....just drop a few subtle hints and gently increase the pressure. Not a "crackdown" as such, just slowly slowly.

The posters who live away from the larger centres of farang concentration generally report no issues for them.

Spot on.

It's the same all over the world.

[tomyumchai]

chiang mai. although i live in that province i have never in 15 years found a reason to like or ever want to stay there for more than a few days. its a gridlocked craphole full of arrogant thais, know-it-all backpackers and as for the bars..... "what you want drink?-you buy me drink".......how about "F-you, tart, ill drink from the seven while you bury your face in your phone and cigarette smoke".

[cyberfarang]

Chiang Mai Immigration is much better at Promenada than near the airport, at least you can be comfortable now while waiting.

I employ an agent, which makes the process comparatively painless. Yes, if you can't afford an agent the process is a lot more protracted.

I haven't been to the Loi Kroh bars for about three years. Went there last night. Two major changes I've noticed in this high season - a huge increase in the number of young female backpackers. Second is the bars are dead, almost no falangs and the bar girls look so desperate Dracula could probably get a short-time.

I haven`t been to the bars for a long time either, got bored of them. Is there still such a thing as a high season in Chiang Mai?

A shocker! Read in the Chiang Mai forum that The Dukes seems to be pulling out. Think that just about sums up the situation. But on the other hand, all the money we will save not going to bars and The Dukes will leave us plenty of cash to spare to pay for the agents fees for another year`s pleasure of staying in Chiang Mai.

[Beats56]

Move to Rayong. I don't go bars except the coffee beer place down the road. I have a brew watching the traffic race down the street. Really it actually a nice town. People are frendily and never had a problem here. I know it is not Chang mia. But it is a decent place to live.except for the industrial estate in MAP ta putt which I worked at a few years ago.but comming from Chemical Valley in Ontario it is no problem for me.and the Imagration people are easy to deal with.

[Si Thea01]

I assume you're talking about the bars that cater to foreigners. And no, it's not the only place. Udon Thani has a small strip of girly bars and western bars, and to the best of my knowledge they all close around midnight. I imagine those are not the only two provinces that operate as such. With regards to immigration, Chiang Mai has one of the highest if not the highest concentrations of foreigners in Thailand. Seriously, last time I was up there in the downtown area, it was a bit of a struggle to find Thai people. I think I heard there are about 200,000 Thais living in Chiang Mai province and an estimated 100,000 foreigners.

I wouldn't say it's that high, but yes, lots of foreigners in Chiang Mai. Maybe something like 7-8% of the population...if even that. Much less than a place like Pattaya, but more than the typical Nakorn nowhere. If you go to the tourist areas, then of course there will be mostly tourists. I'd also say that foreigners in Chiang Mai are more of the "normal" variety, as opposed to the hardcore sexpats. The bar scene in Chiang Mai is tiny, compared to Pattaya, BKK, Phuket, etc. Hopefully it stays that way.

My bad. I should've checked my numbers first. Just looking at the Internet here, it seems to be more like 400,000 Thais and 30K foreigners, so your guesstimate is right on. Still seems like there's a lot of us up there in the downtown area. My Thai friends complain about it all the time. Say it's turning into Phuket, slowly but surely. I predict Chiang Khan will become the new Chiang Mai, at least for the Thais.

You are right about Chiang Khan. I live in Loei, 46 kilometres and notice the steady trek of Thais travelling there frm Friday morning and the large number of tourist coaches. Looking at their car number plates they are coming from numerous nearby provinces and as far away as BKK and Pattaya. My brother in law is a doctor and in charge of the ER at Chiang Khan Hospital and tells me that the weekends are now very busy, not with locals but with Thai visitors.

Apparently, they are not moving there but visiting, however, different matter in Loei, where we are getting those with money buying land and building their retirement homes. This is also evident between Loei and Dan Sai, where many, many home stays and resorts are opening every day. Apparently the cooler temperatures, together with the remarable scenery, is the great attraction. And we are very lucky, no bar stool johnnies ( drunken farangs) although the expat population is increasing, albeit very slowly. But given what I see most are family orientated and when speaking with many, I am yet to find a whinger. (Thank you Lord) Also we never have the problem many appear to do with immigration at Chiang Mai.

[derator01]

A post violating forum rules has been removed from view:

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[bazza40]

Move to Rayong. I don't go bars except the coffee beer place down the road. I have a brew watching the traffic race down the street. Really it actually a nice town. People are frendily and never had a problem here. I know it is not Chang mia. But it is a decent place to live.except for the industrial estate in MAP ta putt which I worked at a few years ago.but comming from Chemical Valley in Ontario it is no problem for me.and the Imagration people are easy to deal with.

Too hot down there. I worked as a consultant in Map Ta Phut years ago and was in a lather of sweat anytime I ventured away from the air conditioning.

I really don't think falangs are persecuted, although we are viewed as a cash cow. However, with the amount of negativity towards CM I'm encountering on TV I do wonder if I'm living in the same city.

[ChoakMyDee]

I assume you're talking about the bars that cater to foreigners. And no, it's not the only place. Udon Thani has a small strip of girly bars and western bars, and to the best of my knowledge they all close around midnight. I imagine those are not the only two provinces that operate as such. With regards to immigration, Chiang Mai has one of the highest if not the highest concentrations of foreigners in Thailand. Seriously, last time I was up there in the downtown area, it was a bit of a struggle to find Thai people. I think I heard there are about 200,000 Thais living in Chiang Mai province and an estimated 100,000 foreigners.

3,000,000 Thais Vs 100,000 foreigners.

Immigration in CM is a disgrace.

Bar opening times are restricted all over the world, drink when they're open.

No they are not restricted all over the world. Go to USA, Canada and many other countries. Bars are closing as the sun comes up. many people do not even go to the bar until after 10 PM or later. You can't have travelled much if you think closing at midnight is normal.

[Stevemercer]

I think there is increased official enforcement of drinking laws everywhere in Thailand as part of the current government's campaign for 'better morals'. I live in a rural town in Isaan and entertainment venues and restaurants are not allowed to sell alcohol on Buddhist holidays. The police come around and check. The police visit karaoke places each night and photograph the customers. They enforce a midnight shutdown.

I don't think ferangs are being singled out for special attention. It is just a general increase in wowserism.

[IMA_FARANG]

The immigration in Bangkok (Chaengwattana) closes down from 12;00 to 13;00 every work day for lunch.

There are even signs in English that announce that.

[duanebigsby]

I assume you're talking about the bars that cater to foreigners. And no, it's not the only place. Udon Thani has a small strip of girly bars and western bars, and to the best of my knowledge they all close around midnight. I imagine those are not the only two provinces that operate as such. With regards to immigration, Chiang Mai has one of the highest if not the highest concentrations of foreigners in Thailand. Seriously, last time I was up there in the downtown area, it was a bit of a struggle to find Thai people. I think I heard there are about 200,000 Thais living in Chiang Mai province and an estimated 100,000 foreigners.

3,000,000 Thais Vs 100,000 foreigners.

Immigration in CM is a disgrace.

Bar opening times are restricted all over the world, drink when they're open.

No they are not restricted all over the world. Go to USA, Canada and many other countries. Bars are closing as the sun comes up. many people do not even go to the bar until after 10 PM or later. You can't have travelled much if you think closing at midnight is normal.

Last call in most Canadian provinces is 1 or 2am, not when the sun is coming up.

[Stradavarius37]

F@ckin illuminati