Police: 3 killed, 9 wounded in attack at Planned Parenthood

[notmyself]

No point banning guns because people will get them anyway. But banning abortion will work because?

[Fookhaht]

Wow, this is how the pro life people value human life. I guess only they know when it's ok to take a life. Bet it gets the Fox people salivating.

If the quoted post wasn't so amazingly grotesque,. it would be worth a good laugh.

Since 1993 there have been a total of EIGHT (8) pro-life murders in the US

Planned Parenthood performed 327,653 abortions in fiscal year 2014 alone.

Now that's a killing machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/1/planned-parenthood-327k-abortions-fiscal-2014/

Oh my Buddha.

Let me try and explain this: abortions are abortions, terminating a fetus, a fertilized egg. Murder is murder, killing a breathing, thinking, feeling human being. See the difference there?

Someone who contends that an unborn child is not a feeling human being is woefully ignorant of the basic science of human development. Or, they just choose to ignore the plethora of data that is out there.

Further, that ignorance continues to fuel the misconception that before that child enters the birth canal they are only a "thing."

But back to the topic.... It was interesting to see how few posts it took before Christians, Latino-American candidates, and Republicans were crucified. All before the facts are in. Disgusting.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Fookhaht

[Linky]

Wow, this is how the pro life people value human life. I guess only they know when it's ok to take a life. Bet it gets the Fox people salivating.

If the quoted post wasn't so amazingly grotesque,. it would be worth a good laugh.

Since 1993 there have been a total of EIGHT (8) pro-life murders in the US

Planned Parenthood performed 327,653 abortions in fiscal year 2014 alone.

Now that's a killing machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/1/planned-parenthood-327k-abortions-fiscal-2014/

Oh my Buddha.

Let me try and explain this: abortions are abortions, terminating a fetus, a fertilized egg. Murder is murder, killing a breathing, thinking, feeling human being. See the difference there?

And please don't link the Wingnut Times. Someone who doesn't know better might think that's an actual newspaper.

Oh, I know the difference. One is killing a very small human and the other is killing a much larger human.

As far as my links are concerned...

I could be really ugly and say if you don't like my links, then stop reading and responding to my posts, but I won't. I could also question your authority to tell me which links are permisible and which are not...but I won't.

I will, instead, provide you with an indisputable link that will prove my number to be correct. i.e. 327,653 abortions in 2014.

Here is the link. The number is in there but you must actually research the article to find it. Not something you do with any regularity. Good luck with your quest to prove me wrong.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/6714/1996/2641/2013-2014_Annual_Report_FINAL_WEB_VERSION.pdf

Your personal opinion on when an egg becomes a human is not relevant. The law will decide that, not a person with a gun that thinks he alone will decide it.

So will you be stating this guy is a murderer and deserves to be hanged from the highest bridge? If it is found he is a nutter christian will you blame all christians?

It isnt the first time this has happened.

[notmyself]

There are a number of states where PP has been defunded to some degree and I'm pretty sure Florida is one. Now Florida PP does not and did not provide an abortion service which shows the complaint is not just abortion related in that state. The argument is that PP as an 'entity' provides an abortion service somewhere. I wonder what would happen if exactly the same logic and reasoning was used against tax breaks for churches?

[sgtsabai]

PP does not and has never "harvested" fetus for money. They have donated fetus for research and costs have been covered. Not the same, not at all. PP receives NO money from the government for abortion and in fact there is a hateful law that stops any funding from the government for abortions. That whole lying video has been exposed as a lie over and over again. Damn read a real source of news, not breitbrat, some other right wing lying rag, hate radio, internet hate sites or faux (not the) news. A fetus is NOT a living breathing human being and it is not up to some religious right wing wacko to tell women how to live their lives or what to do with their bodies. PP is a primary source of health care for poor women, oh maybe that is why the right hate it so much in their little pea brains. They do oh so hate the poor. My bet, this will be called another mental case shooting instead of the terrorist act that it is.

[Seastallion]

You managed to make a first impression from this.

"We don't have any information on this individual's mentality, or his ideas or ideology," Buckley said.

Your talents are clearly wasted.

Yea, first impressions- you are correct. My first impression was a christian finally led into a dark place because of the conflict of his faith and the machinations of Planned Parenthood. We more or less agree on this point. Of course I disagree with the wide brush regarding islam. I think the first thought of those who oppose PP is "I hope this guy is not a christian" rather than "I hope he is muslim." That is a bridge too far, and broad net. There's no history of muslims and PP, yet. Why would anyone reach there? No one would, except you in your effort to link the two. Planned Parenthood is the darkest modern chapter in western cultural history. People killing others is never excusable within an existing, functioning legal environment, but it is easily explained.

But this is the point, isn't it?- 'people killing others.' The standard of killing others is not applied to Planned Parenthood.

Dear AJD, you're far too serious. You missed my sarcasm and snide comment upon the anti-Muslim crowd who lick their lips with relish any time there's a killing spree, hoping to heaven that they can blame a Muslim.

The anti Muslim-bashers got it.

[Friendly Stranger]

From the report, it seems as if the gunman was quite adept.

First impression is of a Christian fundamentalist. So of course this is not terrorism.

Hopefully, the gunman will be a Muslim, so that terrorism and Islam can be blamed.

I know, I know. You couldn't resist going in this direction without knowing all the facts since this is still being investigated.

You're not doing the people of muslim faith any favours with your comment.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Friendly Stranger

[SgtRock]

Seastallion, on 28 Nov 2015 - 18:26, said:

SgtRock, on 28 Nov 2015 - 10:57, said:

Seastallion, on 28 Nov 2015 - 10:40, said:Seastallion, on 28 Nov 2015 - 10:40, said:

From the report, it seems as if the gunman was quite adept.

First impression is of a Christian fundamentalist. So of course this is not terrorism.

Hopefully, the gunman will be a Muslim, so that terrorism and Islam can be blamed.

You managed to make a first impression from this.

Quote

"We don't have any information on this individual's mentality, or his ideas or ideology," Buckley said.

Your talents are clearly wasted.

You clearly have no talent for making first impressions.

I did not make a first impression from what you quoted, I made a first impression from a lot of other information.

You would be surprised at my talents.

I must have missed the memo that I somehow had to impress anyone.

Buffalo dung. At 10.40 this morning, unless you have a direct line to the Denver COP you never had a lot of other information.

Surprised at your talents. A talent for BS will never surprise me.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[arjunadawn]

Yea, first impressions- you are correct. My first impression was a christian finally led into a dark place because of the conflict of his faith and the machinations of Planned Parenthood. We more or less agree on this point. Of course I disagree with the wide brush regarding islam. I think the first thought of those who oppose PP is "I hope this guy is not a christian" rather than "I hope he is muslim." That is a bridge too far, and broad net. There's no history of muslims and PP, yet. Why would anyone reach there? No one would, except you in your effort to link the two. Planned Parenthood is the darkest modern chapter in western cultural history. People killing others is never excusable within an existing, functioning legal environment, but it is easily explained.

But this is the point, isn't it?- 'people killing others.' The standard of killing others is not applied to Planned Parenthood.

Dear AJD, you're far too serious. You missed my sarcasm and snide comment upon the anti-Muslim crowd who lick their lips with relish any time there's a killing spree, hoping to heaven that they can blame a Muslim.

The anti Muslim-bashers got it.

Lost your post in edit.

Sorry. You would not be the first person to tell me I missed the point. If there is no room for humor or sarcasm than lots of joy will leave the room. Got it.

[Thorgal]

Always strange for me to see news articles flashing and describing the radical killer as 'a shooter' and 'a gunman'.

In other cases of radicals, the headlines uses straight forward 'terrorist'...

[Seastallion]

Seastallion, on 28 Nov 2015 - 18:26, said:

You managed to make a first impression from this.

Quote

"We don't have any information on this individual's mentality, or his ideas or ideology," Buckley said.

Your talents are clearly wasted.

You clearly have no talent for making first impressions.

I did not make a first impression from what you quoted, I made a first impression from a lot of other information.

You would be surprised at my talents.

I must have missed the memo that I somehow had to impress anyone.

Buffalo dung. At 10.40 this morning, unless you have a direct line to the Denver COP you never had a lot of other information.

Surprised at your talents. A talent for BS will never surprise me.

Your inability to comprehend the dialogue makes me bored.

Since you're a newbie, I'll explain a little, and then I'm done with it.

You've changed the usage of "impression" here. If your comment was on my grammar, which was wrong, then I accept it and doff my hat at your way of chiding.

Of course I had other information above what you suggested (Quote

"We don't have any information on this individual's mentality, or his ideas or ideology," Buckley said.)

For example the gunman held off arrest for 5 hours, killing police in the process of holding them off.,,,,Actually the entire OP is full of information upon which a reader may make an assumption.

[notmyself]

FTA (no copyright)

[Basil B]

It will not be long before Obama gets the blame.

Well he and the other politicians who could do something about tightening up gun law but choose to bury their heads in the sands like all who have gone before them...

Well it will be 14 months before Obama is replaced, I just hope she is true to her word.

[lostboy]

Another terrorist attack! The kind they don't like to talk about in Wingnuttia. America is at war with these crazy people or as we refer to them, the Republican base.

You've got the imbecile Cruz advocating this sort of thing. They all hate Planned Parenthood. It's all part of the war on women.

Expect another of these terrorists attacks in 3...2...

Even offering the wording "War on women" should come with the caveat "Bought and Paid for by the DNC." How ridiculous. While murdering people to kill murderers will only legally make the hurdles higher to stop the genocide of black children in America, it is also understandable how the progressive left incubates such whackos in the right, one of the few remaining places in the US with institutional opposition to child murder.

It will always make sense that these people will be from a christian population. The only reasonable outrage over the numbing acceptance of murdering children comes from this corner of alienated America; its thus mathematically predictable that those opposed to eugenics social re engineering would come from this segment. Because christians oppose the murdering of other human beings and the trafficking of their body parts does not mean that the christian right does not cultivate idiots too- clearly they do. Its not that they have a moral fabric, they effectively have the largest only remaining moral opposition to murdering infants and fetuses.

However, it is a gross misrepresentation to characterize Planned Parenthood as just a regular mom and pop run of the mill store. It is a eugenics store front for managing populations, at tax payer expense, and traffickers in human fetuses; in fact, its actual history traces right to eugenics ideology and founding. This singular issue is what places PP finally in the evil category. Christians, abortion, their issues, arguments... I have no use for any of them and belong to none of their concerns or beliefs. But the demonstrably proven fact and admission that PP harvests and sells body parts [for any reasons] makes them no different than those who made offerings to Molech/Baal in the Valley of the Children of Hinnom, the last part of the Judeochristian epic that saw children as offerings. PP makes fetal offerings at the Eugenics Altar of the New Social Order. No wonder whackos are compelled to match them equally with darkness.

What does one suspect a cultural disintegration looks like? Is it presumed to be tranquil, without labor or agony? Is it a surprise that the rupture of an entire cultural fabric will from time to time heave and hoe and offer up its disgruntled? The actions of this man are not excusable, but they can certainly have context applied and be explained.

We have here, the exemplar Christian Terrorist, whose existence the far right refuse to acknowledge. In the above post, the Christian Terrorist is not only not acknowledge as such but defended, justified and rationalised in the most astonishingly hypocritical way. I won't take the obvious bait of your eugenics nonsense, nor the wildly insane claims of genocide of African American children - so Black Lives Matter now in this context? - nor the social engineering hog wash as this is clearly a farrago intended to hide the core message. For me, the core message is that the Christian Right will not acknowledge the moral equivalency of Christian Terrorism, Jewish Terrorism and Islamic Terrorism. I am allowed to use the words Jewish Terrorism without being called anti-semitic because the Israeli PM used those words. I cannot believe the you would deny the equivalency of US foreign and energy policy being an incubator for Islamic Terrorists in the same way that you claim the Democrat Party is an incubator for this Christian Terrorist. Sorry, I meant 'gunman' or 'shooter'.

No amount of hysterical diatribe against 'baby murderers' which is clearly, legally and morally, not the case to the sane among us can disguise the appalling thesis that the motivations of this Christian Terrorist are understandable (but of course you don't excuse this). Then when you and others start posting about the Islamic Terrorists and Refugees etc, you are met with a howl of derision. I also think that if you are going to make wilfully incendiary comments you should be prepared to substantiate their accuracy instead of using them as ideological noise to distract, deflect and confuse.

Edited November 28, 2015 by lostboy

[Richard W]

Let me try and explain this: abortions are abortions, terminating a fetus, a fertilized egg. Murder is murder, killing a breathing, thinking, feeling human being. See the difference there?

Let me see if I understand you. Killing someone is less heinous if they're dependent on something other than moving lungs to oxygenate their blood. Is that what you're saying? Or does the difference lie in the capacity to scream?

[sgtsabai]

Some of you will read this, brain washed right wingers will probably not, or if they do reject it, as they always do to logic. A woman has a right to chose, period, morally and legally and no right wing religious wing nut has the right to stop them.

http://www.juancole.com/2015/11/differences-between-terrorists.html

http://www.juancole.com/2015/11/christian-terrorism-candidates.html

[chuckd]

Following is a pertinent portion of the statement from Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains concerning the incident:

"We don't yet know the full circumstances and motives behind this criminal action, and we don't yet know if Planned Parenthood was in fact the target of this attack."

It should be noted that the shooting is alleged by some sources to have begun outside the Planned Parenthood offices and then moved inside. The two civilian victims have not been identified nor have I read anything about where they were murdered. All Planned Parenthood personnel are alive and well, with no injuries.

While our intrepid TVF secular liberals have it all figured out, the rest of the world awaits further information.

Entire press release here: https://twitter.com/PPRockyMountain

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

@ Linky:

I never made reference to when an egg might become human. Read more carefully in the future.

There is little doubt this guy has murdered three people. If he is found legally sane, I have no problem with warming up old Sparky for another run at justice. You forget I'm from Texas.

If he is found to be a Christian on a mission, I will not blame all Christianity for the murders. Now for the record, find one post where I have blamed all Muslims for the killings done by Islamic radicals. I am nearing 10,000 posts so perhaps you can find at least one. I'll wait.

PS: I've got over 30 years living in Islamic countries and probably know more Moslems than you have ever known. Since you refuse to tell us what country you are living in, I must presume myself to be correct in this assumption.

[sgtsabai]

It is 2, that is two links, and your reaction is exactely what I expected. Ahem, nice right wing racist bullshit advo. you posted there, got that off what racist site?...lol. Dawg whistle, dawg whistle.

[arjunadawn]

Another terrorist attack! The kind they don't like to talk about in Wingnuttia. America is at war with these crazy people or as we refer to them, the Republican base.

You've got the imbecile Cruz advocating this sort of thing. They all hate Planned Parenthood. It's all part of the war on women.

Expect another of these terrorists attacks in 3...2...

Even offering the wording "War on women" should come with the caveat "Bought and Paid for by the DNC." How ridiculous. While murdering people to kill murderers will only legally make the hurdles higher to stop the genocide of black children in America, it is also understandable how the progressive left incubates such whackos in the right, one of the few remaining places in the US with institutional opposition to child murder.

It will always make sense that these people will be from a christian population. The only reasonable outrage over the numbing acceptance of murdering children comes from this corner of alienated America; its thus mathematically predictable that those opposed to eugenics social re engineering would come from this segment. Because christians oppose the murdering of other human beings and the trafficking of their body parts does not mean that the christian right does not cultivate idiots too- clearly they do. Its not that they have a moral fabric, they effectively have the largest only remaining moral opposition to murdering infants and fetuses.

However, it is a gross misrepresentation to characterize Planned Parenthood as just a regular mom and pop run of the mill store. It is a eugenics store front for managing populations, at tax payer expense, and traffickers in human fetuses; in fact, its actual history traces right to eugenics ideology and founding. This singular issue is what places PP finally in the evil category. Christians, abortion, their issues, arguments... I have no use for any of them and belong to none of their concerns or beliefs. But the demonstrably proven fact and admission that PP harvests and sells body parts [for any reasons] makes them no different than those who made offerings to Molech/Baal in the Valley of the Children of Hinnom, the last part of the Judeochristian epic that saw children as offerings. PP makes fetal offerings at the Eugenics Altar of the New Social Order. No wonder whackos are compelled to match them equally with darkness.

What does one suspect a cultural disintegration looks like? Is it presumed to be tranquil, without labor or agony? Is it a surprise that the rupture of an entire cultural fabric will from time to time heave and hoe and offer up its disgruntled? The actions of this man are not excusable, but they can certainly have context applied and be explained.

We have here, the exemplar Christian Terrorist, whose existence the far right refuse to acknowledge. In the above post, the Christian Terrorist is not only not acknowledge as such but defended, justified and rationalised in the most astonishingly hypocritical way. I won't take the obvious bait of your eugenics nonsense, nor the wildly insane claims of genocide of African American children - so Black Lives Matter now in this context? - nor the social engineering hog wash as this is clearly a farrago intended to hide the core message. For me, the core message is that the Christian Right will not acknowledge the moral equivalency of Christian Terrorism, Jewish Terrorism and Islamic Terrorism. I am allowed to use the words Jewish Terrorism without being called anti-semitic because the Israeli PM used those words. I cannot believe the you would deny the equivalency of US foreign and energy policy being an incubator for Islamic Terrorists in the same way that you claim the Democrat Party is an incubator for this Christian Terrorist. Sorry, I meant 'gunman' or 'shooter'.

No amount of hysterical diatribe against 'baby murderers' which is clearly, legally and morally, not the case to the sane among us can disguise the appalling thesis that the motivations of this Christian Terrorist are understandable (but of course you don't excuse this). Then when you and others start posting about the Islamic Terrorists and Refugees etc, you are met with a howl of derision. I also think that if you are going to make wilfully incendiary comments you should be prepared to substantiate their accuracy instead of using them as ideological noise to distract, deflect and confuse.

I thoroughly appreciated your thoughtful post. Perhaps I can clarify something I thought was pretty clear. I think the person should be caught, tried, and treated most definitely as a terrorist. The goal after all was to terrorize and by that mechanism influence politics; this is 100% a clear case of terrorism. It is instructive to remind us there still exist other forms of terrorism, however they sadly still have common ground- the absurd claim a man in the clouds endorses their evil aims.

If he is not a Christian he may as well be. You, me, the world, all of us presumes he is anyway, and are likely correct. However, the context remains correct and ignoring the environment or rationales that nurture such people is simply ignorant. Secular isolation of what was previously a collective value- life- has been dramatically anesthetized by social engineering projects such as Planned Parenthood (it is indisputable that black American babies are the number one aborted humans). PP has a direct and unbroken line connecting it to eugenics ideology; this is unambiguous and available everywhere with topical research. Its not necessary to prove this here. It is patently obvious. Christians have a deep well to draw from when noting their opposition to such practices, practices that do hearken back to a pre christian era.

Some will exceed the limits of voting and act out "God's Will" much like other muslim, or even jewish, or any religious terrorists might/do. Realizing that this is the worldview they come from does not excuse their behavior, it elaborates it- and it is accurate. Demanding that the context not be appraised basically commands us to shut up and believe what is told; but nothing is told other than he is christian. A grand broad brush to then indict the remainder. The fact is, for christians and others, PP represents the wholly diabolical, and even for many atheists, basically a human cleansing house- they kill humans! The progressive obliteration of all American and cultural mores has provided alienation and motivation to such terrorists- ipso facto, they are terrorists because they oppose such things as PP. You cannot have a much clearer line of cause and effect. It does not excuse the behavior. Only in the most exercised logic does it follow that explaining causation is itself provocation. Only in tortured reasoning does one conclude that observing the worldview of the terrorist equates to endorsement or neutrality.

PP is clearly legal. However, it is positively immoral. To suggest an equivalence between the law and morals is a weak, and ultimately baseless argument. The two may coincide at times, but the books are filled with immoral laws. The notion that laws are morals are synonymous is vacuous. The motivations of this terrorist are un-der-stand-able. If not, are we to presume his motivations are unknown? I only elaborated on his motivations as they are self evident, a fact that seems to finally ruffle your feathers. Un-der-stand-able is not endorsement nor defense. A freshman could glean the difference.

Why on earth would a tragedy like this have need to be obfuscated? I don't get that point. The facts are clear, even without an investigative summary. Agreeable or not, every person in the privacy of their own homes knows already why the man did what he did. This is hardly endorsement. From the SPLC, to PP, to dems to repubs, everyone knows why he did this. This does not make their knowing the genesis an endorsement. Your issue must then be actually trying to see the world through his eyes. That he sees society breaking down and murdering babies evidence of a terrible crime, and shares this same view with many others, non christian and christian, does not mean others share the same conclusions as him. If one takes issue with the charge of PP being destructive, or liberal polices being degrading to culture, tease those out and address them. They most certainly inform the mindset of this killer.

A terrorist acted out his absurd distillation of his faith, empowered himself to exceed the laws of Man and his own God, and acted out the disease in his mind by killing others. No waffling here. It is a fact. Had the man been a Jew or an atheist we would certainly explore and debate the genesis of his actions. Because he is christian should hardly follow a different standard and no etiology be considered.

Note:

I have no use for the right, for Christians, for the left, nor for those who break the law. Really and period. But there is little doubt that the fracturing of every landmark in America will increasingly manifest in cultural terrorism. When you remove the glue that binds a nation... it comes undone! The primary injury with PP is less the stalking horse for what it is, under the premise of "for the women" and more the fact that through government coercion American are forced to fund it. Personally, my greatest objection to PP is forcing everyone to fund it.

[chuckd]

It is 2, that is two links, and your reaction is exactely what I expected. Ahem, nice right wing racist bullshit advo. you posted there, got that off what racist site?...lol. Dawg whistle, dawg whistle.

Well, I read the second one and it is as idiotic as the first.

You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?

IF, and it is still IF, these murders were intended to be abortion clinic employees the death toll at abortion clinics for the past 22 years would be a grand total of 11.

Hardly a pattern here.

Many ISIS gladiators commit that many before breakfast daily.

PS: Not trying to be the spelling police, but "dawg" is actually spelled "dog". At least in the adult world.

[Pinot]

Liberals bleat about dead abortionists but don't bleat about thousands of dead babies who were totally innocent.

Sorry but I cannot wrap my head around this one.

Your mind works in mysterious ways.

Yup, we bleat. Bleat and bleed.

This sums up the Wingnut position perfectly. Thank you clarifying that fine line between dead babies and murderers.

Oh my Buddha.

[up2u2]

It is 2, that is two links, and your reaction is exactely what I expected. Ahem, nice right wing racist bullshit advo. you posted there, got that off what racist site?...lol. Dawg whistle, dawg whistle.

Well, I read the second one and it is as idiotic as the first.

You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?

IF, and it is still IF, these murders were intended to be abortion clinic employees the death toll at abortion clinics for the past 22 years would be a grand total of 11.

Hardly a pattern here.

Many ISIS gladiators commit that many before breakfast daily.

PS: Not trying to be the spelling police, but "dawg" is actually spelled "dog". At least in the adult world.

"You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?"

Oh just eight (8) people killed since 1993 by a persons christian values. That's okay then. How many need to be killed before you think 'Oh, this is getting a little over the top' chuckd? 100, 200 or a 1000. Just wondering where right wingers draw the line on christian terrorism.

[Seastallion]

It is 2, that is two links, and your reaction is exactely what I expected. Ahem, nice right wing racist bullshit advo. you posted there, got that off what racist site?...lol. Dawg whistle, dawg whistle.

Well, I read the second one and it is as idiotic as the first.

You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?

IF, and it is still IF, these murders were intended to be abortion clinic employees the death toll at abortion clinics for the past 22 years would be a grand total of 11.

Hardly a pattern here.

Many ISIS gladiators commit that many before breakfast daily.

PS: Not trying to be the spelling police, but "dawg" is actually spelled "dog". At least in the adult world.

"You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?"

Oh just eight (8) people killed since 1993 by a persons christian values. That's okay then. How many need to be killed before you think 'Oh, this is getting a little over the top' chuckd? 100, 200 or a 1000. Just wondering where right wingers draw the line on christian terrorism.

It's clear that the issue is not numbers. When WE do it, it's moral, when another flavour of terrorist does it it's defense, it's only if a Muslim does it that it's terrorism.

[Seastallion]

Another terrorist attack! The kind they don't like to talk about in Wingnuttia. America is at war with these crazy people or as we refer to them, the Republican base.

You've got the imbecile Cruz advocating this sort of thing. They all hate Planned Parenthood. It's all part of the war on women.

Expect another of these terrorists attacks in 3...2...

Even offering the wording "War on women" should come with the caveat "Bought and Paid for by the DNC." How ridiculous. While murdering people to kill murderers will only legally make the hurdles higher to stop the genocide of black children in America, it is also understandable how the progressive left incubates such whackos in the right, one of the few remaining places in the US with institutional opposition to child murder.

It will always make sense that these people will be from a christian population. The only reasonable outrage over the numbing acceptance of murdering children comes from this corner of alienated America; its thus mathematically predictable that those opposed to eugenics social re engineering would come from this segment. Because christians oppose the murdering of other human beings and the trafficking of their body parts does not mean that the christian right does not cultivate idiots too- clearly they do. Its not that they have a moral fabric, they effectively have the largest only remaining moral opposition to murdering infants and fetuses.

However, it is a gross misrepresentation to characterize Planned Parenthood as just a regular mom and pop run of the mill store. It is a eugenics store front for managing populations, at tax payer expense, and traffickers in human fetuses; in fact, its actual history traces right to eugenics ideology and founding. This singular issue is what places PP finally in the evil category. Christians, abortion, their issues, arguments... I have no use for any of them and belong to none of their concerns or beliefs. But the demonstrably proven fact and admission that PP harvests and sells body parts [for any reasons] makes them no different than those who made offerings to Molech/Baal in the Valley of the Children of Hinnom, the last part of the Judeochristian epic that saw children as offerings. PP makes fetal offerings at the Eugenics Altar of the New Social Order. No wonder whackos are compelled to match them equally with darkness.

What does one suspect a cultural disintegration looks like? Is it presumed to be tranquil, without labor or agony? Is it a surprise that the rupture of an entire cultural fabric will from time to time heave and hoe and offer up its disgruntled? The actions of this man are not excusable, but they can certainly have context applied and be explained.

We have here, the exemplar Christian Terrorist, whose existence the far right refuse to acknowledge. In the above post, the Christian Terrorist is not only not acknowledge as such but defended, justified and rationalised in the most astonishingly hypocritical way. I won't take the obvious bait of your eugenics nonsense, nor the wildly insane claims of genocide of African American children - so Black Lives Matter now in this context? - nor the social engineering hog wash as this is clearly a farrago intended to hide the core message. For me, the core message is that the Christian Right will not acknowledge the moral equivalency of Christian Terrorism, Jewish Terrorism and Islamic Terrorism. I am allowed to use the words Jewish Terrorism without being called anti-semitic because the Israeli PM used those words. I cannot believe the you would deny the equivalency of US foreign and energy policy being an incubator for Islamic Terrorists in the same way that you claim the Democrat Party is an incubator for this Christian Terrorist. Sorry, I meant 'gunman' or 'shooter'.

No amount of hysterical diatribe against 'baby murderers' which is clearly, legally and morally, not the case to the sane among us can disguise the appalling thesis that the motivations of this Christian Terrorist are understandable (but of course you don't excuse this). Then when you and others start posting about the Islamic Terrorists and Refugees etc, you are met with a howl of derision. I also think that if you are going to make wilfully incendiary comments you should be prepared to substantiate their accuracy instead of using them as ideological noise to distract, deflect and confuse.

I thoroughly appreciated your thoughtful post. Perhaps I can clarify something I thought was pretty clear. I think the person should be caught, tried, and treated most definitely as a terrorist. The goal after all was to terrorize and by that mechanism influence politics; this is 100% a clear case of terrorism. It is instructive to remind us there still exist other forms of terrorism, however they sadly still have common ground- the absurd claim a man in the clouds endorses their evil aims.

If he is not a Christian he may as well be. You, me, the world, all of us presumes he is anyway, and are likely correct. However, the context remains correct and ignoring the environment or rationales that nurture such people is simply ignorant. Secular isolation of what was previously a collective value- life- has been dramatically anesthetized by social engineering projects such as Planned Parenthood (it is indisputable that black American babies are the number one aborted humans). PP has a direct and unbroken line connecting it to eugenics ideology; this is unambiguous and available everywhere with topical research. Its not necessary to prove this here. It is patently obvious. Christians have a deep well to draw from when noting their opposition to such practices, practices that do hearken back to a pre christian era.

Some will exceed the limits of voting and act out "God's Will" much like other muslim, or even jewish, or any religious terrorists might/do. Realizing that this is the worldview they come from does not excuse their behavior, it elaborates it- and it is accurate. Demanding that the context not be appraised basically commands us to shut up and believe what is told; but nothing is told other than he is christian. A grand broad brush to then indict the remainder. The fact is, for christians and others, PP represents the wholly diabolical, and even for many atheists, basically a human cleansing house- they kill humans! The progressive obliteration of all American and cultural mores has provided alienation and motivation to such terrorists- ipso facto, they are terrorists because they oppose such things as PP. You cannot have a much clearer line of cause and effect. It does not excuse the behavior. Only in the most exercised logic does it follow that explaining causation is itself provocation. Only in tortured reasoning does one conclude that observing the worldview of the terrorist equates to endorsement or neutrality.

PP is clearly legal. However, it is positively immoral. To suggest an equivalence between the law and morals is a weak, and ultimately baseless argument. The two may coincide at times, but the books are filled with immoral laws. The notion that laws are morals are synonymous is vacuous. The motivations of this terrorist are un-der-stand-able. If not, are we to presume his motivations are unknown? I only elaborated on his motivations as they are self evident, a fact that seems to finally ruffle your feathers. Un-der-stand-able is not endorsement nor defense. A freshman could glean the difference.

Why on earth would a tragedy like this have need to be obfuscated? I don't get that point. The facts are clear, even without an investigative summary. Agreeable or not, every person in the privacy of their own homes knows already why the man did what he did. This is hardly endorsement. From the SPLC, to PP, to dems to repubs, everyone knows why he did this. This does not make their knowing the genesis an endorsement. Your issue must then be actually trying to see the world through his eyes. That he sees society breaking down and murdering babies evidence of a terrible crime, and shares this same view with many others, non christian and christian, does not mean others share the same conclusions as him. If one takes issue with the charge of PP being destructive, or liberal polices being degrading to culture, tease those out and address them. They most certainly inform the mindset of this killer.

A terrorist acted out his absurd distillation of his faith, empowered himself to exceed the laws of Man and his own God, and acted out the disease in his mind by killing others. No waffling here. It is a fact. Had the man been a Jew or an atheist we would certainly explore and debate the genesis of his actions. Because he is christian should hardly follow a different standard and no etiology be considered.

Note:

I have no use for the right, for Christians, for the left, nor for those who break the law. Really and period. But there is little doubt that the fracturing of every landmark in America will increasingly manifest in cultural terrorism. When you remove the glue that binds a nation... it comes undone! The primary injury with PP is less the stalking horse for what it is, under the premise of "for the women" and more the fact that through government coercion American are forced to fund it. Personally, my greatest objection to PP is forcing everyone to fund it.

A few points.

Perhaps I misunderstood..... are you drawing a connection between the statistic that more black babies are aborted and eugenics? You shouldn't.

You mention "babies" all the time on this subject. When does a blob of cells stop being a blob and become a baby? The law considered this (with some profound thinking, I would imagine) and made a decision....thus PP does not kill babies, it expels blobs.

Which brings us to the law and morals..... All morals, yours, mine, and Al Baghdadi's are merely our personal opinions.

PS. I thought you and I shared a very similar view on eugenics. Just saying that I'm surprised that here you use eugenics to vilify, whereas at other times you've been almost wistfully wishing for some form of eugenics.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post and reply that was reported has been removed.

Let's please stay on topic.

[arjunadawn]

I thoroughly appreciated your thoughtful post. Perhaps I can clarify something I thought was pretty clear. I think the person should be caught, tried, and treated most definitely as a terrorist. The goal after all was to terrorize and by that mechanism influence politics; this is 100% a clear case of terrorism. It is instructive to remind us there still exist other forms of terrorism, however they sadly still have common ground- the absurd claim a man in the clouds endorses their evil aims.

If he is not a Christian he may as well be. You, me, the world, all of us presumes he is anyway, and are likely correct. However, the context remains correct and ignoring the environment or rationales that nurture such people is simply ignorant. Secular isolation of what was previously a collective value- life- has been dramatically anesthetized by social engineering projects such as Planned Parenthood (it is indisputable that black American babies are the number one aborted humans). PP has a direct and unbroken line connecting it to eugenics ideology; this is unambiguous and available everywhere with topical research. Its not necessary to prove this here. It is patently obvious. Christians have a deep well to draw from when noting their opposition to such practices, practices that do hearken back to a pre christian era.

Some will exceed the limits of voting and act out "God's Will" much like other muslim, or even jewish, or any religious terrorists might/do. Realizing that this is the worldview they come from does not excuse their behavior, it elaborates it- and it is accurate. Demanding that the context not be appraised basically commands us to shut up and believe what is told; but nothing is told other than he is christian. A grand broad brush to then indict the remainder. The fact is, for christians and others, PP represents the wholly diabolical, and even for many atheists, basically a human cleansing house- they kill humans! The progressive obliteration of all American and cultural mores has provided alienation and motivation to such terrorists- ipso facto, they are terrorists because they oppose such things as PP. You cannot have a much clearer line of cause and effect. It does not excuse the behavior. Only in the most exercised logic does it follow that explaining causation is itself provocation. Only in tortured reasoning does one conclude that observing the worldview of the terrorist equates to endorsement or neutrality.

PP is clearly legal. However, it is positively immoral. To suggest an equivalence between the law and morals is a weak, and ultimately baseless argument. The two may coincide at times, but the books are filled with immoral laws. The notion that laws are morals are synonymous is vacuous. The motivations of this terrorist are un-der-stand-able. If not, are we to presume his motivations are unknown? I only elaborated on his motivations as they are self evident, a fact that seems to finally ruffle your feathers. Un-der-stand-able is not endorsement nor defense. A freshman could glean the difference.

Why on earth would a tragedy like this have need to be obfuscated? I don't get that point. The facts are clear, even without an investigative summary. Agreeable or not, every person in the privacy of their own homes knows already why the man did what he did. This is hardly endorsement. From the SPLC, to PP, to dems to repubs, everyone knows why he did this. This does not make their knowing the genesis an endorsement. Your issue must then be actually trying to see the world through his eyes. That he sees society breaking down and murdering babies evidence of a terrible crime, and shares this same view with many others, non christian and christian, does not mean others share the same conclusions as him. If one takes issue with the charge of PP being destructive, or liberal polices being degrading to culture, tease those out and address them. They most certainly inform the mindset of this killer.

A terrorist acted out his absurd distillation of his faith, empowered himself to exceed the laws of Man and his own God, and acted out the disease in his mind by killing others. No waffling here. It is a fact. Had the man been a Jew or an atheist we would certainly explore and debate the genesis of his actions. Because he is christian should hardly follow a different standard and no etiology be considered.

Note:

I have no use for the right, for Christians, for the left, nor for those who break the law. Really and period. But there is little doubt that the fracturing of every landmark in America will increasingly manifest in cultural terrorism. When you remove the glue that binds a nation... it comes undone! The primary injury with PP is less the stalking horse for what it is, under the premise of "for the women" and more the fact that through government coercion American are forced to fund it. Personally, my greatest objection to PP is forcing everyone to fund it.

A few points.

Perhaps I misunderstood..... are you drawing a connection between the statistic that more black babies are aborted and eugenics? You shouldn't.

You mention "babies" all the time on this subject. When does a blob of cells stop being a blob and become a baby? The law considered this (with some profound thinking, I would imagine) and made a decision....thus PP does not kill babies, it expels blobs.

Which brings us to the law and morals..... All morals, yours, mine, and Al Baghdadi's are merely our personal opinions.

PS. I thought you and I shared a very similar view on eugenics. Just saying that I'm surprised that here you use eugenics to vilify, whereas at other times you've been almost wistfully wishing for some form of eugenics.

Responded post removed to reply.

Wow. Great point, regarding eugenics, and morals. I will quickly respond and get back on track. I did not intend to divert. My intention was to draw, what I presumed, to be the worldview from which he came. There is most definitely a perspective that is somewhat common to those who particularly go after Planned Parenthood, now and in the past. It is simply foolish to ignore it. Saying he is a christian, as the indictment and explanation, really says nothing at all. It is convenient for those who wish to paint broadly but most christians, not unlike muslims or others, would be horrified to act out their rage by taking of lives. No, this does not explain it. It is a combination of futility, hopelessness, imaginings of grandeur, belief of personal revelation/commandment, confidence the world is wicked, and isolation. A recipe such as this informs minds as this. What such a mind observes has a basis in fact, though it may not be the one the killer perceives.

PP does abort fetuses and unquestionably, regardless of regularity, the born. Society has rolled along a progressive course of late that has revamped the vistas that previously belonged to the christian world changing previously held rules, marginalizing what was thought to be god driven laws, and alienating christians from their home schooling, to their courts, to their bakeries, to their kitchens, etc. It does not matter whether these are voted social changes or not; the fact remains, it sets a pablum to fester resentment, isolation, and obviously for some, rage. These are facts of perspective. Indeed, whether I am wholly accurate or not not exploring these possible mechanisms only invites further problems. No, it does not ever mean society to should cave. It means we should understand to anticipate. But we must understand.

I do have a conflict with regard to eugenics. It evolves in me now. You are correct. We never directly touched on it but it remains irreconcilable now. Inherently, any social program that prunes society at the genetic or birth level is a frightening power if progressively impressed upon us as same ole same ole. Eugenics is the birthright of Planned Parenthood. The lineage through Sanger is total. This point has been recently reaffirmed by Hillary (no, it does not mean she supports Eugenics. Indeed, many who support PP have no knowledge of this as other services are sought or approved). This present issue is rich with so much that needs more level headed discussion. From guns to faith to the points raised above, this event is a harbinger. I would call it an agonal respiration, after the medical term.

The remaining part on morals I would prefer to PM you, please. However, I do believe categorical imperatives or some moral certitudes must be enforced to have civil society.

[Nowisee]

Religion is evil.

Religious people are less intelligent: Link

Tobacco use kills more than 6 million people annually

1.3 million people die each year in road crashes

1 million people die each year from suicide

437,000 were murdered in 2012

and the list goes on.

Wow, this is how the pro life people value human life. I guess only they know when it's ok to take a life. Bet it gets the Fox people salivating.

If the quoted post wasn't so amazingly grotesque,. it would be worth a good laugh.

Since 1993 there have been a total of EIGHT (8) pro-life murders in the US

Planned Parenthood performed 327,653 abortions in fiscal year 2014 alone.

Now that's a killing machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/1/planned-parenthood-327k-abortions-fiscal-2014/

Oh my Buddha.

Let me try and explain this: abortions are abortions, terminating a fetus, a fertilized egg. Murder is murder, killing a breathing, thinking, feeling human being. See the difference there?

And please don't link the Wingnut Times. Someone who doesn't know better might think that's an actual newspaper.

Oh, I know the difference. One is killing a very small human and the other is killing a much larger human.

As far as my links are concerned...

I could be really ugly and say if you don't like my links, then stop reading and responding to my posts, but I won't. I could also question your authority to tell me which links are permisible and which are not...but I won't.

I will, instead, provide you with an indisputable link that will prove my number to be correct. i.e. 327,653 abortions in 2014.

Here is the link. The number is in there but you must actually research the article to find it. Not something you do with any regularity. Good luck with your quest to prove me wrong.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/6714/1996/2641/2013-2014_Annual_Report_FINAL_WEB_VERSION.pdf

[attrayant]

PP does not and has never "harvested" fetus for money. They have donated fetus for research and costs have been covered. Not the same, not at all. PP receives NO money from the government for abortion and in fact there is a hateful law that stops any funding from the government for abortions. That whole lying video has been exposed as a lie over and over again.

And now we know this was the terrorist's motivation.

Colorado shooter politically motivated, said "no more baby parts" after attacking Planned Parenthood.

"No more baby parts" is a clear reference to a deceptively-edited video released by the Center for Medical Progress, a "pro-life" group. I have to put "pro-life" in scare quotes now, since their efforts have created fuel for domestic terrorism that has now resulted in several deaths.

But hey there have only been a dozen or so "pro-life" murders in the last decade, so that makes okay right?

Edited November 29, 2015 by attrayant

[chuckd]

It is 2, that is two links, and your reaction is exactely what I expected. Ahem, nice right wing racist bullshit advo. you posted there, got that off what racist site?...lol. Dawg whistle, dawg whistle.

Well, I read the second one and it is as idiotic as the first.

You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?

IF, and it is still IF, these murders were intended to be abortion clinic employees the death toll at abortion clinics for the past 22 years would be a grand total of 11.

Hardly a pattern here.

Many ISIS gladiators commit that many before breakfast daily.

PS: Not trying to be the spelling police, but "dawg" is actually spelled "dog". At least in the adult world.

"You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?"

Oh just eight (8) people killed since 1993 by a persons christian values. That's okay then. How many need to be killed before you think 'Oh, this is getting a little over the top' chuckd? 100, 200 or a 1000. Just wondering where right wingers draw the line on christian terrorism.

Oh, one is too many. Eight (so far) in the last 22 years is hardly an epidemic. Beat your chest and rend your hair and it is still a total of eight (so far).

You secular progressive liberals will do anything to paint Christianity in a bad light. Your obvious insecurities are on display.

Edit in:

Just read that he began shooting in the shopping mall parking lot. He then entered the PP building and started shooting from the building to the outside world.

Could it be he never had a grudge against PP?

Could it be he was simply using their facility as the nearest cover he could get to?

Could it be he is not a Christian?

Could it be he is actually a Muslim that hasn't bothered to change his name?

Or could it be he is simply a loner spaced out on medications that decided to go shoot some people.

Lots of questions but one more could be...Am I the only one that has Google?

Edited November 29, 2015 by chuckd