Second aviation safety ruling on Thailand is due mid this month

[webfact]

Second aviation safety ruling on Thailand is due mid this month



BANGKOK: -- The United States Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) downgrading of Thailand's aviation industry has dealt a heavy blow to the industry.

But that’s not all yet as the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) will report its finding on the country’s aviation safety in the middle of this month.

Both the government and the private are awaiting its report with concern as this will have wider impact on related industries, particularly tourism.

If its finding turns unfavourable, then the hardest hit will be the country’s, national flag carrier, Thai Airways International (THAI), which a third of its revenue is derived from routes to European destinations.

According to the FAA’s downgrading of Thailand’s aviation safety standard to Category 2 from Category 1, it stated that the Department of Civil Aviation lacks law or regulation needed to oversee airlines in line with international standard.

As a consequence, Thai carriers will be banned from establishing new services to the U.S. until it regains the Category 1 status.

But Thai officials remained optimistic that the US doiwngrade does not pose immediate business impact on the Thai aviation industry, as THAI has halted its services to the U.S. since October.

However it does certainly tarnished the image of the industry.

The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) in June this year has already red flagged Thailand for its failure to meet its standard particularly a shortage of aviation personnel and certification problems in transporting hazardous goods.

But Transport Minister Arkom Termpittayapaisith promised to speed up solving the problem from the roots in bid to remove Thailand from the ICAO’s red-flag.

He said once the red-flag is removed, it is likely that Thailand will regain its Category 1 status.

He added the ministry is determined to address all the ICAO’s concerns including increasing the number of aviation personnel and improving the issuance system of air transport licences.

Transport officials and those in the tourism sector are now watching closely for the EASA’s report as it will have greater business impact on the Thai aviation industry than that of the FAA.

THAI will be dealt with heaviest blow if EASA’s finding turns out in the same way as that of FAA.

THAI operates flights to 11 destinations in Europe and revenues from these routes accounted for a third of its total revenues.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/second-aviation-safety-ruling-on-thailand-is-due-mid-this-month


-- Thai PBS 2015-12-03

[nong38]

Time for THailand to understand that the the two safety bodies are world bodies and its for Thailand to fit in with those bodies not the two bodies to fit in with Thailand. Failure to understand this will hit tourism and the local economy. Simple really is anyone listening?

[timc1988]

I just wanted to point out that it was the Thai Civil Aviation Authority that was downgraded...not any individual airline. As I worked my whole life in aircraft maintenance I recall many times the "Fed's" showed up on the ramp and wanted the documentation on my activities. I can only imagine how it works here...but like everything else here I already answered my own question.

A Category 2 International Aviation Safety Assessment (IASA) rating means that the country either lacks laws or regulations necessary to oversee air carriers in accordance with minimum international standards, or its civil aviation authority - a body equivalent to the FAA for aviation safety matters - is deficient in one or more areas, such as technical expertise, trained personnel, record-keeping, or inspection procedures.

[jonclark]

" The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) in June this year has already red flagged Thailand for its failure to meet its standard particularly a shortage of aviation personnel."

​I seem to remember a few months ago a number of Thai pilots complaining that foreigners were coming in and stealing jobs reserved for Thais. One can only conclude that Thailand clearly has great need of skilled foreign workers in the aviation industry and that the ring-fencing of skilled jobs for Thais only is detrimental to the transfer of skills and knowledge within industries and also the wider economy.

Given that protectionism, whilst domestically popular, might be to in part to blame for this crisis perhaps a review of their employment regs is required to be more flexible with the dynamics of the 21st Century

[dageurreotype]

Time for THailand to understand that the the two safety bodies are world bodies and its for Thailand to fit in with those bodies not the two bodies to fit in with Thailand. Failure to understand this will hit tourism and the local economy. Simple really is anyone listening?

Not Prayut whose first response was along the lines of 'Now is the time for all Thais to come together to solve this problem and bring peace to the country'

[dageurreotype]

" The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) in June this year has already red flagged Thailand for its failure to meet its standard particularly a shortage of aviation personnel."

​I seem to remember a few months ago a number of Thai pilots complaining that foreigners were coming in and stealing jobs reserved for Thais. One can only conclude that Thailand clearly has great need of skilled foreign workers in the aviation industry and that the ring-fencing of skilled jobs for Thais only is detrimental to the transfer of skills and knowledge within industries and also the wider economy.

Given that protectionism, whilst domestically popular, might be to in part to blame for this crisis perhaps a review of their employment regs is required to be more flexible with the dynamics of the 21st Century

Well certainly not the French pilot of the downed in Indonesia AirAsia 'plane .. Perhaps the salary was too low to attract 'skilled' foreign pilots?

[jonclark]

" The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) in June this year has already red flagged Thailand for its failure to meet its standard particularly a shortage of aviation personnel."

​I seem to remember a few months ago a number of Thai pilots complaining that foreigners were coming in and stealing jobs reserved for Thais. One can only conclude that Thailand clearly has great need of skilled foreign workers in the aviation industry and that the ring-fencing of skilled jobs for Thais only is detrimental to the transfer of skills and knowledge within industries and also the wider economy.

Given that protectionism, whilst domestically popular, might be to in part to blame for this crisis perhaps a review of their employment regs is required to be more flexible with the dynamics of the 21st Century

Well certainly not the French pilot of the downed in Indonesia AirAsia 'plane .. Perhaps the salary was too low to attract 'skilled' foreign pilots?

Indonesian born captain and French born 1st officer. Who was in charge? Not that it makes a blind bit of difference to the 162 people who died. And the official report state mechanical failure which should have been fixed by ground staff triggered actions which led to the crash

[NCC1701A]

[worgeordie]

Maybe its that Thai trait,"it will be OK" mae pen rai.

regards Worgeordie

[Hawk]

I believe Thai airways will never recover now, its been in trouble for years, so the next downgrade will signal its end.

[jalansanitwong]

THAI used to be one of the best airlines in the world.

Obviously years of promoting people with family connections or transfers to innactive posts from the RTA to THAI have taken their toll.

How many people have been employed or promoted on merit at THAI in recent years?

Europe closed its doors to Garuda for 7 years after being downgraded to Catagory 2.

If this happens to THAI they will be genuinely shocked and appalled.

They will accuse the yanks and Europeans of being anti-Asian without accepting the rotten state of affairs at THAI.

[lonewolf99]

Bang ! there goes another toe .... how many they got left to shoot off now.... 25% reduction in emmissions.... 32 million tourists coming....

Not on THAI they won't....

Wasn't Don Muang supposed to be a "hub" for S.E. Asia aircraft maintenance ?

or was that before they found out it could be flooded up to the belly of an Airbus 320.... or a transit point for Uigers to go to Syria....

[alant]

I find it interesting that Thai airlines are now banned from flying to the USA until the standards are met. Will Europe also take such action. Of course Europe will have to actually ban the Thai airlines as there are many routes currently flown.

[stoffel45]

I just wanted to point out that it was the Thai Civil Aviation Authority that was downgraded...not any individual airline. As I worked my whole life in aircraft maintenance I recall many times the "Fed's" showed up on the ramp and wanted the documentation on my activities. I can only imagine how it works here...but like everything else here I already answered my own question.

A Category 2 International Aviation Safety Assessment (IASA) rating means that the country either lacks laws or regulations necessary to oversee air carriers in accordance with minimum international standards, or its civil aviation authority - a body equivalent to the FAA for aviation safety matters - is deficient in one or more areas, such as technical expertise, trained personnel, record-keeping, or inspection procedures.

Thank you - your point helps clear some of the fog generated by the media reports.

OK so THAI have not been particularly censored - this applies to all the Thai Airlines - including THAI.

As a result of this article my wife, quite rightly told our Travel Agent not to proceed with our December booking - which is due to be paid tomorrow - for three of us in Business Class.

All of us love to fly Thai airlines, as my wife says, "It's almost like being on holiday before you leave the ground."

But this downgrade also proclaims THAI is not as SAFE as Internationally agreed standards say it should be - and that means booking with THAI is irresponsible - until it gets its act together and regains certification.

Plus the fact, we will save nearly 2,300 euro flying with say SWISS or Lufthansa - dull, boring, but cheaper and SAFE.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Time for THailand to understand that the the two safety bodies are world bodies and its for Thailand to fit in with those bodies not the two bodies to fit in with Thailand. Failure to understand this will hit tourism and the local economy. Simple really is anyone listening?

Not Prayut whose first response was along the lines of 'Now is the time for all Thais to come together to solve this problem and bring peace to the country'

This problem has been going on for decades so no point in blaming it on Prayut. You can bitch and complain all you want but do you seriously expect him to be able to fix every problem overnight? Get real!!!

[DisparateDan]

THAI used to be one of the best airlines in the world.

Obviously years of promoting people with family connections or transfers to innactive posts from the RTA to THAI have taken their toll.

How many people have been employed or promoted on merit at THAI in recent years?

Europe closed its doors to Garuda for 7 years after being downgraded to Catagory 2.

If this happens to THAI they will be genuinely shocked and appalled.

They will accuse the yanks and Europeans of being anti-Asian without accepting the rotten state of affairs at THAI.

The new Liverpool FC Manager wears a top with "Garuda Indonesia" emblazoned on his back...Does he realise ?

Edited December 3, 2015 by DisparateDan

[MaxLee]

Sorry, folks, talk to you again in August next year.....................

[Hawk]

Time for THailand to understand that the the two safety bodies are world bodies and its for Thailand to fit in with those bodies not the two bodies to fit in with Thailand. Failure to understand this will hit tourism and the local economy. Simple really is anyone listening?

Not Prayut whose first response was along the lines of 'Now is the time for all Thais to come together to solve this problem and bring peace to the country'

This problem has been going on for decades so no point in blaming it on Prayut. You can bitch and complain all you want but do you seriously expect him to be able to fix every problem overnight? Get real!!!

Prayut is to blame for not doing anything at all about the Thai airways problem, of course he didn't cause the problem in the first place but at least he could have made the effort to get Thai back on track.

And as for being unabe to fix every problem overnight, he hasn't fixed any problem in 18 months so the future looks even bleaker as regards to the government's so called performance. Unfortunately he's only making things worse.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Hawk

[Ulic]

Keep putting on that brave face Thailand. Everything is OK.

[thesetat2013]

THAI used to be one of the best airlines in the world.

Obviously years of promoting people with family connections or transfers to innactive posts from the RTA to THAI have taken their toll.

How many people have been employed or promoted on merit at THAI in recent years?

Europe closed its doors to Garuda for 7 years after being downgraded to Catagory 2.

If this happens to THAI they will be genuinely shocked and appalled.

They will accuse the yanks and Europeans of being anti-Asian without accepting the rotten state of affairs at THAI.

Isn't it going to be Europe following the US lead on this. I mean, both have pretty much the same standards so if the US downgraded them they why wouldn't Europe?

[gandalf12]

I find it interesting that Thai airlines are now banned from flying to the USA until the standards are met. Will Europe also take such action. Of course Europe will have to actually ban the Thai airlines as there are many routes currently flown.

Europe will take the same action as the FAA. If they dont it will appear that Europe is saying the FAA is wrong and there is no way the CAA will do that. They work together and exchange information. Thailand is about to suffer major damage to its airline industry and it is all because they want Thai's to do everything. The idea is ok but Thailand doesnt have the highly skilled people in sufficient numbers to do the job. Europe is about to downgrade to level 2 as well

[chainarong]

" The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) in June this year has already red flagged Thailand for its failure to meet its standard particularly a shortage of aviation personnel."

​I seem to remember a few months ago a number of Thai pilots complaining that foreigners were coming in and stealing jobs reserved for Thais. One can only conclude that Thailand clearly has great need of skilled foreign workers in the aviation industry and that the ring-fencing of skilled jobs for Thais only is detrimental to the transfer of skills and knowledge within industries and also the wider economy.

Given that protectionism, whilst domestically popular, might be to in part to blame for this crisis perhaps a review of their employment regs is required to be more flexible with the dynamics of the 21st Century

Skilled foreign workers , not only for the aviation industry but for most of the others as well.

[chainarong]

I just wanted to point out that it was the Thai Civil Aviation Authority that was downgraded...not any individual airline. As I worked my whole life in aircraft maintenance I recall many times the "Fed's" showed up on the ramp and wanted the documentation on my activities. I can only imagine how it works here...but like everything else here I already answered my own question.

A Category 2 International Aviation Safety Assessment (IASA) rating means that the country either lacks laws or regulations necessary to oversee air carriers in accordance with minimum international standards, or its civil aviation authority - a body equivalent to the FAA for aviation safety matters - is deficient in one or more areas, such as technical expertise, trained personnel, record-keeping, or inspection procedures.

Thank you - your point helps clear some of the fog generated by the media reports.

OK so THAI have not been particularly censored - this applies to all the Thai Airlines - including THAI.

As a result of this article my wife, quite rightly told our Travel Agent not to proceed with our December booking - which is due to be paid tomorrow - for three of us in Business Class.

All of us love to fly Thai airlines, as my wife says, "It's almost like being on holiday before you leave the ground."

But this downgrade also proclaims THAI is not as SAFE as Internationally agreed standards say it should be - and that means booking with THAI is irresponsible - until it gets its act together and regains certification.

Plus the fact, we will save nearly 2,300 euro flying with say SWISS or Lufthansa - dull, boring, but cheaper and SAFE.

Both Thai Int and Bangkok Air are compliant with a top mark of 7 for their aircraft audit it is their administration that are failing the tests along with the administrating of Thailand's aircraft carriers the DCA.

[Eric Loh]

Time for THailand to understand that the the two safety bodies are world bodies and its for Thailand to fit in with those bodies not the two bodies to fit in with Thailand. Failure to understand this will hit tourism and the local economy. Simple really is anyone listening?

Not Prayut whose first response was along the lines of 'Now is the time for all Thais to come together to solve this problem and bring peace to the country'

This problem has been going on for decades so no point in blaming it on Prayut. You can bitch and complain all you want but do you seriously expect him to be able to fix every problem overnight? Get real!!!

You do have a point. He seem to be a magnet for bad things happening to Thailand. I put it down to 3 reasons - either he is incompetent to solve any problems or the world especially USA and EU don't like military ousting legitimate elected government or he is just bad luck. Maybe all 3.

[Rorri]

Time for THailand to understand that the the two safety bodies are world bodies and its for Thailand to fit in with those bodies not the two bodies to fit in with Thailand. Failure to understand this will hit tourism and the local economy. Simple really is anyone listening?

That could be hard for Thais to understand, considering that a some schools. kids are taught that if other nations want to do something, they must ask Thailand first.

[martinhp]

Time for THailand to understand that the the two safety bodies are world bodies and its for Thailand to fit in with those bodies not the two bodies to fit in with Thailand. Failure to understand this will hit tourism and the local economy. Simple really is anyone listening?

yes EU and USA stay out of Thai politics !!!

I think everyone are listening

[sanukjim]

Here we have an "almost finished" airport and no where to fly.Except in other countries that have lower safty standards like us.

[somo]

Time for THailand to understand that the the two safety bodies are world bodies and its for Thailand to fit in with those bodies not the two bodies to fit in with Thailand. Failure to understand this will hit tourism and the local economy. Simple really is anyone listening?

Not Prayut whose first response was along the lines of 'Now is the time for all Thais to come together to solve this problem and bring peace to the country'

This problem has been going on for decades so no point in blaming it on Prayut. You can bitch and complain all you want but do you seriously expect him to be able to fix every problem overnight? Get real!!!

Not overnight but generally he claims to have solved most of the big problems within a week or so of them being made public. I think he ordered this one urgently solved just after the previous inspection. It seems the senior Thai Air management have not obeyed possibly due to a wrong attitude which is easily corrected.

[gandalf12]

Time for THailand to understand that the the two safety bodies are world bodies and its for Thailand to fit in with those bodies not the two bodies to fit in with Thailand. Failure to understand this will hit tourism and the local economy. Simple really is anyone listening?

yes EU and USA stay out of Thai politics !!!

I think everyone are listening

It isnt quite Thai politics it is more International Safety which is a word that does not exist in Thailand

[tigermonkey]

I just wanted to point out that it was the Thai Civil Aviation Authority that was downgraded...not any individual airline. As I worked my whole life in aircraft maintenance I recall many times the "Fed's" showed up on the ramp and wanted the documentation on my activities. I can only imagine how it works here...but like everything else here I already answered my own question.

A Category 2 International Aviation Safety Assessment (IASA) rating means that the country either lacks laws or regulations necessary to oversee air carriers in accordance with minimum international standards, or its civil aviation authority - a body equivalent to the FAA for aviation safety matters - is deficient in one or more areas, such as technical expertise, trained personnel, record-keeping, or inspection procedures.

Thank you - your point helps clear some of the fog generated by the media reports.

OK so THAI have not been particularly censored - this applies to all the Thai Airlines - including THAI.

As a result of this article my wife, quite rightly told our Travel Agent not to proceed with our December booking - which is due to be paid tomorrow - for three of us in Business Class.

All of us love to fly Thai airlines, as my wife says, "It's almost like being on holiday before you leave the ground."

But this downgrade also proclaims THAI is not as SAFE as Internationally agreed standards say it should be - and that means booking with THAI is irresponsible - until it gets its act together and regains certification.

Plus the fact, we will save nearly 2,300 euro flying with say SWISS or Lufthansa - dull, boring, but cheaper and SAFE.

The demotion to Category 2 has absolutely nothing to do with THAI. If one looks at THAI's safety record, reliability record, level of incidents and inflight maintenance issues, there is ample evidence that THAI is a very safe airline. The problem is that because of the utter incompetence of the Thai CAA, we have no way of being sure of that. If THAI is OK it is due to THAI's efforts alone, and not due to regulation or inspection. I would have no problem flying with THAI if their tickets were a realistic price.