Chinese bikes

[papa al]

came across this

http://www.chinamoto...-manufacturers/

[taninthai]

not surprising really papa considering there population is 1.6 billion,and a huge percent of them use bikes as transport.but what has this got to do or relevance to a bikes in thailand forum.

Edited December 5, 2015 by taninthai

[seedy]

not surprising really papa considering there population is 1.6 billion,and a huge percent of them use bikes as transport.but what has this got to do or relevance to a bikes in thailand forum.

In Forum description -

Motorcycles in Thailand forum. Post and read here about trips, modifications and accessories for motorcycles, questions about anything motorcycle related.

[AllanB]

In my view this is of great interest, we are seeing a turning point in the Thai bike market.

I don't think people realise how easy it is to build a bike nowadays, everything is there for you on a plate, especially in China. You only need one designer, as there is no need to reinvent the wheel, a few guys to source components and another few to set up a production line. Then...well you start banging them out.

Production is pretty much the same no matter what you are making and then it is down to the money men and we all know the Chinese have a few of them.

This is not rocket science, in fact even rocket science isn't rocket science any more.

Extensive development isn't that necessary any more and the racing side is nothing more than a marketing exercise to get us thinking top performance.

[kiniyow]

Still there Bikes are far more junk then Japanese Designs IE Honda, Yamaha....Look good in the show room but Fall apart soon after and depreciation is a Killer

[taninthai]

not surprising really papa considering there population is 1.6 billion,and a huge percent of them use bikes as transport.but what has this got to do or relevance to a bikes in thailand forum.

In Forum description -

Motorcycles in Thailand forum. Post and read here about trips, modifications and accessories for motorcycles, questions about anything motorcycle related.

sorry my mistake then ,rules must have changed a thread was closed not long ago for discussing training techniques in other countries.

[AllanB]

Still there Bikes are far more junk then Japanese Designs IE Honda, Yamaha....Look good in the show room but Fall apart soon after and depreciation is a Killer

Well if you take the case of currently topical Lifan, all as reported on this very forum, you will that find neither of these points are true.

All bikes working well after up to 5 years of use and around 5,000baht/year depreciation from new. Last year I was offered a 1 year old Honda CRF at B100,000 from a dealer, that is a B30,000 drop in just 12 months.

There are Chinese bike manufacturers that were crap and are now good, there are some that are still crap, but there are also Jap bikes that are now, shall we say of questionable quality. Plus things are changing rapidly, so don't be so quick to condemn a whole nation's products. Especially a nation who makes pretty much everything for the entire world.

[taninthai]

Still there Bikes are far more junk then Japanese Designs IE Honda, Yamaha....Look good in the show room but Fall apart soon after and depreciation is a Killer

I agree with you ,but you gotta remember a lot of China is very poor ,these bikes are all they can afford so they are good for the Chinese people

[maykilceksin]

Still there Bikes are far more junk then Japanese Designs IE Honda, Yamaha....Look good in the show room but Fall apart soon after and depreciation is a Killer

I agree with you ,but you gotta remember a lot of China is very poor ,these bikes are all they can afford so they are good for the Chinese people

...and good for cheap Charlies too!

[denkiblue555]

So, what is the name of the Chinese bike that races in Moto GP...... I mean if they are so good and all?

And even all those pretend Chinese MX-looking bikes.... anyone ever seen one of them on a proper MX track?

Just curious of course.

[Richard-BKK]

So, what is the name of the Chinese bike that races in Moto GP...... I mean if they are so good and all?

And even all those pretend Chinese MX-looking bikes.... anyone ever seen one of them on a proper MX track?

Just curious of course.

Zongshen has participated in the Moto2 (250cc) championship and Zongshen is one of the compeditors of the TTXGP (or eGrandPrix) where the competition fears, with teams like Brammo and other American, European and Australian teams of electronic motorcycle manufacturers...

Edited December 9, 2015 by Richard-BKK

[Richard-BKK]

GPX has a motocross competition in Thailand, open for all motorcycles (not only GPX bikes).

[denkiblue555]

GPX has a motocross competition in Thailand, open for all motorcycles (not only GPX bikes).

Appreciate the pic Richard - any other pics of the "real" 250 / 450 cc classes?

Seems they will give the KSRs a run for their money though

[denkiblue555]

So, what is the name of the Chinese bike that races in Moto GP...... I mean if they are so good and all?

And even all those pretend Chinese MX-looking bikes.... anyone ever seen one of them on a proper MX track?

Just curious of course.

Zongshen has participated in the Moto2 (250cc) championship and Zongshen is one of the compeditors of the TTXGP (or eGrandPrix) where the competition fears, with teams like Brammo and other American, European and Australian teams of electronic motorcycle manufacturers...

When did Zongshen participate in Moto2?

Are you sure it was Moto2?

Seems the TTXGP comp you are referring to was an Isle of Man, and more recently Laguna Seca comp which is still very much in its infancy.

And evidently Zongshen used a bike powered by an electric engine from British Manufacturer YASA.....

But I do get your point that this all means we may see them build a real Zongshen race bike in the future!

[Richard-BKK]

So, what is the name of the Chinese bike that races in Moto GP...... I mean if they are so good and all?

And even all those pretend Chinese MX-looking bikes.... anyone ever seen one of them on a proper MX track?

Just curious of course.

Zongshen has participated in the Moto2 (250cc) championship and Zongshen is one of the compeditors of the TTXGP (or eGrandPrix) where the competition fears, with teams like Brammo and other American, European and Australian teams of electronic motorcycle manufacturers...

When did Zongshen participate in Moto2?

Are you sure it was Moto2?

Seems the TTXGP comp you are referring to was an Isle of Man, and more recently Laguna Seca comp which is still very much in its infancy.

And evidently Zongshen used a bike powered by an electric engine from British Manufacturer YASA.....

But I do get your point that this all means we may see them build a real Zongshen race bike in the future!

In the TTXGP and most other races the important part of racing is the chassis and weight distribution, where the electric motor comes from is not that important. Also the TTXGP is a full competition and Zongshen has 3 active teams in the race. You may want to check your info at http://www.egrandprix.com/20130930023155/http_/www_egrandprix_com/teams.html

You can find more information about the Zongshen 250cc race bike and Asian title racing here http://en.zongshenmotor.com/?q=node/916

[Richard-BKK]

To be honest I miss a bit the point that having a race team makes a motorcycle brand good, if we would make a list of motorcycle manufacturers who don’t have a MotoGP, Moto2 or Moto3 race team or a Motocross team we will actual get a serious list.

If you look at the line-up of most Chinese manufacturers available in Thailand you would see that they concentrate mostly on all-round commuter bikes… it would be useless to spend millions of Dollars on racing if you never going to use the information learned…

[Richard-BKK]

For me the question for the average Chinese motorcycle is will it fit the job you buy it for. If you want a real sportsbike, and going to do a few serious trackdays a month I would seriously recommend you go for a Honda CBR300R, Kawasaki Ninja 300R or the new Yamaha YZF-R3.

If anybody is mostly doing commuting from work to home or tour the country side with speeds you actual see something from riding around you probably okay with a Chinese motorcycle from the 3 larger Chinese manufacturers in Thailand (who actually make the motorcycles in Thailand) – Lifan, Zongshen and Keeway.

The only problem with selecting a motorcycle from one of this 3 Chinese manufacturers is that you have to find a reliable and capable dealer, or you have to be a handyman in automotive mechanics. The good part about Chinese motorcycles from Lifan and Zongshen, and for most part Keeway also is that they use industry standard parts. So wherever you're you will be able to find a new wheel-bearing as they use standard bearing sizes. This is not the case for Honda, Kawasaki or Yamaha bikes, you can only buy the appropriated wheel-bearing from a Honda, Kawasaki or Yamaha dealer (depending on what motorcycle you ride).

Another part of positive is if you have any problem with your Lifan, Zongshen or Keeway while traveling in Laos, Cambodia or Myanmar you can find a dealer who sells the same bikes and can help you. While this also works for some Honda models, most dealers in neighboring countries have no clue how to deal with the high tech of the latest Honda CBR300R, Kawasaki Ninja 300R or the Yamaha YZF-R3… or similar high electronics dependable motorcycles.

[English_M_in_Bkk]

For me the question for the average Chinese motorcycle is will it fit the job you buy it for. If you want a real sportsbike, and going to do a few serious trackdays a month I would seriously recommend you go for a Honda CBR300R, Kawasaki Ninja 300R or the new Yamaha YZF-R3.

If anybody is mostly doing commuting from work to home or tour the country side with speeds you actual see something from riding around you probably okay with a Chinese motorcycle from the 3 larger Chinese manufacturers in Thailand (who actually make the motorcycles in Thailand) – Lifan, Zongshen and Keeway.

The only problem with selecting a motorcycle from one of this 3 Chinese manufacturers is that you have to find a reliable and capable dealer, or you have to be a handyman in automotive mechanics. The good part about Chinese motorcycles from Lifan and Zongshen, and for most part Keeway also is that they use industry standard parts. So wherever you're you will be able to find a new wheel-bearing as they use standard bearing sizes. This is not the case for Honda, Kawasaki or Yamaha bikes, you can only buy the appropriated wheel-bearing from a Honda, Kawasaki or Yamaha dealer (depending on what motorcycle you ride).

Another part of positive is if you have any problem with your Lifan, Zongshen or Keeway while traveling in Laos, Cambodia or Myanmar you can find a dealer who sells the same bikes and can help you. While this also works for some Honda models, most dealers in neighboring countries have no clue how to deal with the high tech of the latest Honda CBR300R, Kawasaki Ninja 300R or the Yamaha YZF-R3… or similar high electronics dependable motorcycles.

If only commuting, I wouldn't go near a Chinese made bike in Thailand - why bother? Honda and Yamaha are everywhere and make decent, cheap, reliable commuting bikes and topped off with a massive dealer network - it's a no brainier really

CBR300R, Ninja 300R and the R3 are not what I would call high tech, especially the Honda. Any spanner monkey worth his salt would be able to work on the engines of these bikes and fix basic problems, and these bikes are pretty bullet proof anyway, you are not going to get serious problems with them.

[Richard-BKK]

The Honda CBR300R is maybe not high tech to western or even Thai standards, but I can mess-up up a Honda CBR300R and 90% of the mechanics in Thailand have no clue that happened. What problem I create, you ask? I let one connection expose to what is similar as a dog average size is peeing against your motorcycle daily… 4 days and your Honda CBR300R will not work and 90% of the Honda dealers have no clue what the problem is… They will eventually, with assistance of Honda Thailand advice to replace the ECU… what obvious is really expensive and will not fix the problem… Damn … just one aluminum contact and your motorcycle is not working… This is also a problem on the CRF250L and CRF250M….

On the otherhand I can ride a Lifan LF200GY-5 into the sea until it kill itself, take it to dry land wait a few hours for it to dry and work like no problem ever happened... even the salt water has less effect on it....

Edited December 9, 2015 by Richard-BKK

[papa al]

Wait.

You exposed a connection.

Medium sized dog peed on it x 4.

Kaput.

Honda says need new controller.

?

Good one.

[Richard-BKK]

Wait.

You exposed a connection.

Medium sized dog peed on it x 4.

Kaput.

Honda says need new controller.

?

Good one.

Papa, It's not exact science, it depends on dog size how much he pee and how much salt contains his pee… But to say it simple when a dog regular pee's against your Honda CBR300R you will have problems. With the Honda CBR300R having untreated aluminum connections you probably will have similar problems at coastal towns in 2 or 3 years… as salt air will make untreated aluminum corrode and interrupt electronic connection. Even if a dog or even cats pee not direct against your electronics, the heat of the engine and air flow will expose the electronics to salt containt air... and your electronic connections will start corrosion...

Aluminum corrosion will reduce the electronic flow of a current...

Edited December 9, 2015 by Richard-BKK

[Richard-BKK]

I have 7 count where the regular Honda dealer wanted to charge for a new ECU, Wire harness and PGM-FI (fuel injection unit) counting a repair of over 20,000 THB. While a less than 10 THB aluminum connector was the actual source of the failure…

[Richard-BKK]

Some people think that I want to make the established brand look bad… Trust me this is not anything bad I deal with on a average day. ....

[denkiblue555]

So, what is the name of the Chinese bike that races in Moto GP...... I mean if they are so good and all?

And even all those pretend Chinese MX-looking bikes.... anyone ever seen one of them on a proper MX track?

Just curious of course.

Zongshen has participated in the Moto2 (250cc) championship and Zongshen is one of the compeditors of the TTXGP (or eGrandPrix) where the competition fears, with teams like Brammo and other American, European and Australian teams of electronic motorcycle manufacturers...

When did Zongshen participate in Moto2?

Are you sure it was Moto2?

Seems the TTXGP comp you are referring to was an Isle of Man, and more recently Laguna Seca comp which is still very much in its infancy.

And evidently Zongshen used a bike powered by an electric engine from British Manufacturer YASA.....

But I do get your point that this all means we may see them build a real Zongshen race bike in the future!

In the TTXGP and most other races the important part of racing is the chassis and weight distribution, where the electric motor comes from is not that important. Also the TTXGP is a full competition and Zongshen has 3 active teams in the race. You may want to check your info at http://www.egrandprix.com/20130930023155/http_/www_egrandprix_com/teams.html

You can find more information about the Zongshen 250cc race bike and Asian title racing here http://en.zongshenmotor.com/?q=node/916

Ahh, so it was like a Chinese version of Moto2 - but not the real Moto2 then?

Fair enough.

[denkiblue555]

For me the question for the average Chinese motorcycle is will it fit the job you buy it for. If you want a real sportsbike, and going to do a few serious trackdays a month I would seriously recommend you go for a Honda CBR300R, Kawasaki Ninja 300R or the new Yamaha YZF-R3.

If anybody is mostly doing commuting from work to home or tour the country side with speeds you actual see something from riding around you probably okay with a Chinese motorcycle from the 3 larger Chinese manufacturers in Thailand (who actually make the motorcycles in Thailand) – Lifan, Zongshen and Keeway.

The only problem with selecting a motorcycle from one of this 3 Chinese manufacturers is that you have to find a reliable and capable dealer, or you have to be a handyman in automotive mechanics. The good part about Chinese motorcycles from Lifan and Zongshen, and for most part Keeway also is that they use industry standard parts. So wherever you're you will be able to find a new wheel-bearing as they use standard bearing sizes. This is not the case for Honda, Kawasaki or Yamaha bikes, you can only buy the appropriated wheel-bearing from a Honda, Kawasaki or Yamaha dealer (depending on what motorcycle you ride).

Another part of positive is if you have any problem with your Lifan, Zongshen or Keeway while traveling in Laos, Cambodia or Myanmar you can find a dealer who sells the same bikes and can help you. While this also works for some Honda models, most dealers in neighboring countries have no clue how to deal with the high tech of the latest Honda CBR300R, Kawasaki Ninja 300R or the Yamaha YZF-R3… or similar high electronics dependable motorcycles.

I understand what you are saying here Richard but:

1. The Honda CBR300R, Ninja 300R and Yamaha R3 are most certainly NOT race bikes - they are entry level consumer bikes that look cool (to some people) as a starting point to get customers into the brand. If you want to do a trackday on a small-capacity bike, I think their much older models (ZXR-250, CRB250RR, FZR250 etc..) would perform far better as they have proper engines, proper suspension, proper brakes and a proper chassis.

2. If you are commuting, then you are probably putting lots of k's on a bike and need something reliable which won't break. To my mind, this means a bike which will last a long time... from a manufacturer who has been producing motorcycles from more than just 20 years or something. Most commuters just want something that will take them from point A to point B, and not worry about parts failing or other issues which arise from cheap, low-quality components being used. There is nothing wrong with cheap stuff for a short time, but it just won't last..... so what is the point?

3. There are still plenty of bikes running around in western countries from the Japanese manufacturers that are 30 years old or more.... I don't see many people riding around on Chinese bikes that are even 10 years old, because.... and I am guessing here, they are simply not made to the same quality standards and that is why they are cheaper. They may look flashy when new...... but the quality just isn't there yet. And when you put your life in the hands of 150kgs of assembled parts......surely you want to feel confident that they won't fail when you are travelling at 100km?

[onlycw]

Still there Bikes are far more junk then Japanese Designs IE Honda, Yamaha....Look good in the show room but Fall apart soon after and depreciation is a Killer

Well if you take the case of currently topical Lifan, all as reported on this very forum, you will that find neither of these points are true.

All bikes working well after up to 5 years of use and around 5,000baht/year depreciation from new. Last year I was offered a 1 year old Honda CRF at B100,000 from a dealer, that is a B30,000 drop in just 12 months.

There are Chinese bike manufacturers that were crap and are now good, there are some that are still crap, but there are also Jap bikes that are now, shall we say of questionable quality. Plus things are changing rapidly, so don't be so quick to condemn a whole nation's products. Especially a nation who makes pretty much everything for the entire world.

Which model are you talking about? "5 k Baht depreciation"? First of all, it's not a straight line!! The moment you drive off the dealer's lot, more than 5 k are gone, JMHO.

[ktm jeff]

Onlycw , the bike in question , was a dual sport Lifan 200 , that "lost" just 4,200 Baht in annual resale value , over a period of 6 years. A couple of people were trying to convince folk of the poor resale prices of "Chinese" bikes , and yet in the same thread , we see someone had lost about 55,000 Baht on a 9,000 KM old Honda CRF 250. Makes you think about your next purchase doesnt it.

[Throttled]

It sounds like the value simply bottomed-out- as long as it's running, it's going to be worth something, and, eventually, age doesn't mean that much as far as the selling price goes. A ten-year-old Wave vs a twelve-year-old Wave won't have much of a difference in price, i.e. A bike that's ~50K new bottoms-out much faster than a bike that costs double (or more) that amount. Compare like-for-like purchase prices and you'll get a more accurate comparison.

[maykilceksin]

The Honda CBR300R is maybe not high tech to western or even Thai standards, but I can mess-up up a Honda CBR300R and 90% of the mechanics in Thailand have no clue that happened. What problem I create, you ask? I let one connection expose to what is similar as a dog average size is peeing against your motorcycle daily… 4 days and your Honda CBR300R will not work and 90% of the Honda dealers have no clue what the problem is… They will eventually, with assistance of Honda Thailand advice to replace the ECU… what obvious is really expensive and will not fix the problem… Damn … just one aluminum contact and your motorcycle is not working… This is also a problem on the CRF250L and CRF250M….

On the otherhand I can ride a Lifan LF200GY-5 into the sea until it kill itself, take it to dry land wait a few hours for it to dry and work like no problem ever happened... even the salt water has less effect on it....

that does not make any sense!

so a dog is peeing to a honda motorcycle(what a chance it is not kawa!) 4 days in a row and it stopped working?

sorry but i dont believe this or you are not honest. This is a country having hard Monsoon 4 months a year so you say honda engineers are stupid and designed a bike prone to peeing or lets say liquids?

i see many on the roads, friends are riding them with no problems during Monsoons or wet roads.

I hear such nonsense problems about honda or kawasaki only at TV forum! and of course i do not believe them bc they all sound dishonest and nonsense.

I had my experiences with hondas and other jap bikes here and they always work and never miss a beat and that is the reason why millions go buy a Honda or kawasaki or suzuki and especially a honda.

and there is a reason why Thai people (who are very careful with their budget especially in rural) pay more sometime double and get a Honda, they also do not trust Chinese products and even though they have limited amount of money, they still go get a honda or a recognized brand.

There is a reason for this, you cant see that? there is a idiom for this: " i am not rich to buy cheap things' never heard that? a honda will be always cheaper and better value on the long run and more reliable while being so and less hassle free with its service.

but a faragn getting a Chinese bike? = A Cheap Charlie who does not value his/her hard earned cash by getting inferior quality product with substandard materials and decades old tech. Plus no or bad after sales service.

Edited December 16, 2015 by maykilceksin

[ardokano]

If chines bike have triple or more diferent price same in China. May be i get one for fun.

But price diferrent 20-40% japan brand? its real funny.