Which Cars Will Be Able To Run On Gasohol?

[edh]

I have a Nissan Cefiro 2.0, year 2001 new body and I got really worried when I read that they

will remove the current 95 Octaine which I pump today.

What alternative will I have?

Will my car run good on 91 Oct. or even gasohol??

Any info appreciated.

Edh

[Hog Head]

Here are two links to manufacturers compability statements.

http://www.autoindustries.com.au/ethanol.p...8/00000005.html

http://www.abc.net.au/brisbane/stories/s1466787.htm

Aside from "can I use it" the other question is "is it cheaper"

Gasohol has less energy per unit than petrol, and you will use more to cover the same distance - how much depends on the car but will range for 1-5%. Current price spread between E-10 and petrol 95 is 1.5 B/litre so in most cases the answer is gasohol costs the same or even a big more.

In you case the answer is that Nissan does not recommend E-10 due to material compability issues and/or dirveability issues.

Take heart and the new Misister is to review this idiotic gasohol policy per the Bangkok Post today.

Robert

[LindsayBKK]

I have a Nissan Cefiro 2.0, year 2001 new body and I got really worried when I read that they

will remove the current 95 Octaine which I pump today.

What alternative will I have?

Will my car run good on 91 Oct. or even gasohol??

Any info appreciated.

Edh

The Maxima (Cefiro) takes Regular 87 octane but for maximum power, Premium fuel is recommended

Nissan Link

My bf has been using Gasahol in his Honda Civic 2001 for a few weeks now with no noticeable differences. I would not put it into a car more than 10 years old, reason, leaky hoses etc. I could not find any car list on the net. Checkout this link.

Gasahol info Here

[edh]

Thank you very much for your efforts to find me some info about this.

Any other Cefiro owners or similar out there?

What are your plans if they go ahead and remove the 95 Oct.??

Edh

Here are two links to manufacturers compability statements.

http://www.autoindustries.com.au/ethanol.p...8/00000005.html

http://www.abc.net.au/brisbane/stories/s1466787.htm

Aside from "can I use it" the other question is "is it cheaper"

Gasohol has less energy per unit than petrol, and you will use more to cover the same distance - how much depends on the car but will range for 1-5%. Current price spread between E-10 and petrol 95 is 1.5 B/litre so in most cases the answer is gasohol costs the same or even a big more.

In you case the answer is that Nissan does not recommend E-10 due to material compability issues and/or dirveability issues.

Take heart and the new Misister is to review this idiotic gasohol policy per the Bangkok Post today.

Robert

The Maxima (Cefiro) takes Regular 87 octane but for maximum power, Premium fuel is recommended

Nissan Link

My bf has been using Gasahol in his Honda Civic 2001 for a few weeks now with no noticeable differences. I would not put it into a car more than 10 years old, reason, leaky hoses etc. I could not find any car list on the net. Checkout this link.

Gasahol info Here

[Crossy]

My '93 BMW 325i hates gasohol, BMW also 'do not recommend' using gasohol (but they can't tell me what I can use)

Runs like a truck on 91

Final solution assuming that 95 does go off sale is an LPG conversion. My step-son had his 525i done recently, not cheap at 60,000 Baht but it runs sweet as a nut with no loss of zip, not had a chance to compare consumption as yet, but LPG is a lot cheaper than even 91.

I would avoid an NGV conversion as yet, S-L-O-W to fill (apparently up to 30 mins) and not very available at present.

[PREM-R]

There is a story in the Bangkok Post online issue today (10th October) that suggests that the newly-appointed Energy Minister Piyasvasti Amranand is to consider not ending the sale of 95 grade petrol in the new year. Sorry can't copy the story here because of "problems" with Bangkok Post and links to stories there die after one day.

[Crossy]

There is a story in the Bangkok Post online issue today (10th October) that suggests that the newly-appointed Energy Minister Piyasvasti Amranand is to consider not ending the sale of 95 grade petrol in the new year. Sorry can't copy the story here because of "problems" with Bangkok Post and links to stories there die after one day.

There's a snip and link in this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=83028

Apparently BKK Post don't like us quoting whole articles and they shift the stuff into the archive the next day so read it while you can chaps and chapesses

[Tywais]

Thank you very much for your efforts to find me some info about this.

Any other Cefiro owners or similar out there?

What are your plans if they go ahead and remove the 95 Oct.??

I have a 94 Nissan Bluebird 2000cc with turbo and I'm still worried about what to do. I doubt I will touch the gasahol due to the issue with seals even though it is fuel injected. Will try the 91 when the switch is made and see how it behaves. BTW there was a recent posting on TV that suggests the government will re-think this.

Missed PREM-R's post.

[Hog Head]

Read the links I provided to see if your car is in fact E-10 compatable.

You will find that Honda states that the only Civic models that will operate satisfactorily on E-10 are from 2004 and newer.

Your BF should review his use of E-10

In any case at 1.5B per litre less than petrol 95, and the fact that you will use more due to the lower energy level, it is not cheaper so why bother

Here is the info you are looking for:

http://www.autoindustries.com.au/ethanol.p...8/00000005.html

http://www.abc.net.au/brisbane/stories/s1466787.htm

Robert

My bf has been using Gasahol in his Honda Civic 2001 for a few weeks now with no noticeable differences. I would not put it into a car more than 10 years old, reason, leaky hoses etc. I could not find any car list on the net. Checkout this link.

Gasahol info Here

[Crossy]

Here is the info you are looking for:

http://www.autoindustries.com.au/ethanol.p...8/00000005.html

Very interesting, the link suggests that my old Beemer ('93) is OK with E5 and E10.

BMW Thailand said they 'do not recommend gasohol', the car certainly does not seem to like the stuff, hopefully it won't damage things though.

Still hoping for a reprieve on the 95 ban

[edh]

I e-mailed Nissan Thailand yesterday about running my Cefiro on Gasohol and got following answer:

" Dear Sir,

Thank you very much for your interest in Nissan. We would

like to inform you that Nissan Cefiro can be safely filled with

gasohol 95.

Best regards,

Customer relations

Siam Nissan Automobile "

So I guess it is safe to run it on gasohol 95 then?

[teej]

I e-mailed Nissan Thailand yesterday about running my Cefiro on Gasohol and got following answer:

" Dear Sir,

Thank you very much for your interest in Nissan. We would

like to inform you that Nissan Cefiro can be safely filled with

gasohol 95.

Best regards,

Customer relations

Siam Nissan Automobile "

So I guess it is safe to run it on gasohol 95 then?

They said you can fill it up with gasohol... who knows if it'll run...

[Gary A]

I really wouldn't worry about it. Most of the new cars in the US, including Nissan, Toyota and Honda are using 87 octane gasoline with no problems. the 91 octane is considered premium.

[Crossy]

I really wouldn't worry about it. Most of the new cars in the US, including Nissan, Toyota and Honda are using 87 octane gasoline with no problems. the 91 octane is considered premium.

Don't forget the US uses a different method of determining octane rating.

IIRC a US '87' is equivalent to a Rest of the World '91' (I'll try to find the link for the explanation).

[Tywais]

I really wouldn't worry about it. Most of the new cars in the US, including Nissan, Toyota and Honda are using 87 octane gasoline with no problems. the 91 octane is considered premium.

Don't forget the US uses a different method of determining octane rating.

IIRC a US '87' is equivalent to a Rest of the World '91' (I'll try to find the link for the explanation).

Will this one do? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

[Crossy]

Will this one do? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

Cheers TW, that will do just fine

Edited October 12, 2006 by Crossy

[Hog Head]

Presumably the Thai Cefiro is a J spec engine and identical to that available in Australia. Take a look at the link I provided for manufacturer compability statements

You need to ask they why Nissan Australia specifically recommends against the use of E-10 in the same vehicle.

I suspect that Siam Nissan is either kowtoing to the government or have no idea on the driveability issues involved. I wonder what their position would be if your car was under warranty, or if you could hold them liable if you have problems in the future?

In any case why bother using gasohol given that is not cheaper and if anything more expensive than petrol 95. There is more to the equation than the 1.5 b/litre lower pump price.

E-10 has less energy than the same volume of petrol 95, and it therefore takes more fuel to travel the same distance - how much more depends on the car.

Under steady state controlled conditions you can expect 1-5% less distance from gasohol depending on the vehicles state of tune and fuel system. Real world driving however is a much different story and you can expect to use from 5-20% more fuel

Oil is at currently the lowest price this year, and the price differential between gasohol and petrol 95 is pegged at a subsidsed 1.5 b/Litre (5.69% in Chiangmai) As the price of oil rises, and the differential peg stays the same the economic balance shifts in favour of petrol.

As it stands today, gasohol is at best equal, and most likely more expensive per km than petrol.

Why bother with gasohol unless the price spread is 20% or more?

So who is benefiting from this mandated shift to gasohol?

A more sceptical individual would think that perhaps it is the ethanol producers who are guaranteed a new market at a subsidsed price.

You can bet the farmers will not make any more money, and the consumer is clearly not saving money?

The country is not saving money given that ethaol is subsized the same 2.5 b/Litre that we could not afford for petrol subsidy. Not one barrel of imported oil is saved as ethanol is a substitute for MTBE. Granted MTBE is imported but the government keeps beating the oil saving drum.

Is the environment benefiting - you could argue that both ways

I wonder who owns the ethanol companies and their connections to the government?

The new Energy Minister stated that postponing the introduction of gasohol would do more harm than good.

harm to whom? - surely not the ethanol companies

Or maybe there is a hidden agenda and removing petrol from the market allows for politically unpopular fuel increases without the benchmark of global oil prices?

Once again the ethanol companies benefit.

Sounds just like the old government to me.

Robert

I e-mailed Nissan Thailand yesterday about running my Cefiro on Gasohol and got following answer:

" Dear Sir,

Thank you very much for your interest in Nissan. We would

like to inform you that Nissan Cefiro can be safely filled with

gasohol 95.

Best regards,

Customer relations

Siam Nissan Automobile "

So I guess it is safe to run it on gasohol 95 then?

[Thaihog]

Presumably the Thai Cefiro is a J spec engine and identical to that available in Australia. Take a look at the link I provided for manufacturer compability statements

You need to ask they why Nissan Australia specifically recommends against the use of E-10 in the same vehicle.

I suspect that Siam Nissan is either kowtoing to the government or have no idea on the driveability issues involved. I wonder what their position would be if your car was under warranty, or if you could hold them liable if you have problems in the future?

In any case why bother using gasohol given that is not cheaper and if anything more expensive than petrol 95. There is more to the equation than the 1.5 b/litre lower pump price.

E-10 has less energy than the same volume of petrol 95, and it therefore takes more fuel to travel the same distance - how much more depends on the car.

Under steady state controlled conditions you can expect 1-5% less distance from gasohol depending on the vehicles state of tune and fuel system. Real world driving however is a much different story and you can expect to use from 5-20% more fuel

Oil is at currently the lowest price this year, and the price differential between gasohol and petrol 95 is pegged at a subsidsed 1.5 b/Litre (5.69% in Chiangmai) As the price of oil rises, and the differential peg stays the same the economic balance shifts in favour of petrol.

As it stands today, gasohol is at best equal, and most likely more expensive per km than petrol.

Why bother with gasohol unless the price spread is 20% or more?

So who is benefiting from this mandated shift to gasohol?

A more sceptical individual would think that perhaps it is the ethanol producers who are guaranteed a new market at a subsidsed price.

You can bet the farmers will not make any more money, and the consumer is clearly not saving money?

The country is not saving money given that ethaol is subsized the same 2.5 b/Litre that we could not afford for petrol subsidy. Not one barrel of imported oil is saved as ethanol is a substitute for MTBE. Granted MTBE is imported but the government keeps beating the oil saving drum.

Is the environment benefiting - you could argue that both ways

I wonder who owns the ethanol companies and their connections to the government?

The new Energy Minister stated that postponing the introduction of gasohol would do more harm than good.

harm to whom? - surely not the ethanol companies

Or maybe there is a hidden agenda and removing petrol from the market allows for politically unpopular fuel increases without the benchmark of global oil prices?

Once again the ethanol companies benefit.

Sounds just like the old government to me.

Robert

I e-mailed Nissan Thailand yesterday about running my Cefiro on Gasohol and got following answer:

" Dear Sir,

Thank you very much for your interest in Nissan. We would

like to inform you that Nissan Cefiro can be safely filled with

gasohol 95.

Best regards,

Customer relations

Siam Nissan Automobile "

So I guess it is safe to run it on gasohol 95 then?

HOG HEAD you're a star, can I get your autograph.

[Nickkbh]

How about my 2006 Honda Jazz idsi.

Can i safely get the gasstation guys to fill it with gasohol.

I usually get 91,will there be a difference in performance.

THX

nicolai

[Jai Dee]

There is supposed to be a definitive list somewhere... but I cannot find it.

Back in November last year, the PTT Phuket Oil Depot Manager, Vichitpong Cheanthongsub said: “We have given the manager or owner of every gas station in Phuket a half-day of training about gasohol and which engines it is suitable for. It is the duty of the gas station manager to train staff how to serve customers.

In addition, each PTT station has been given brochures – though in Thai only – explaining to customers which engines are suitable for gasohol use.”

Has anyone seen an English version of this document, preferrably endorsed by the vehicle manufacturers?

[Hog Head]

Would that be the same PTT that in recently performed tests claimed that E-10 is fine to use in spite of the manufacturers statements to the contrary?

I wrote Bangkok Post about PTT's compatibility claims as follows. Anyone with any scientific knowledge on the subject is a bit sceptical regarding their biased comptibility claims.

Bangkok Post "Postbag":

Why does the PTT and the Energy Ministry continue to disseminate misinformation in an attempt to defend the ill thought through decision to withdraw petrol 95 and replace it with E-10 gasohol?

Bangkok Post reports Oct 6, 06 on a long-term test performed by the Dept. of Alternative Energy & Efficiency and PTT on 3 older Japanese vehicles claimed to represent 60% of the total number of 10+-year-old cars on Thai roads. Contrary to the test report, 2 of the 3 cars tested are deemed E-10 incompatible by the manufacturers.

The Toyota tested was a Corolla 1.3 litre 2E engine, (produced from 1985-90). Toyota's compatibility statement is very clear in that pre July 94 Corollas are not compatible, and "will not operate satisfactorily due to material incompatibility issues".

The Honda is only described as a more than 10-year-old 1.5 litre Civic with a CVC© engine. The only Civic listed by Honda as E-10 compatible is a 2004 or newer – clearly excluding the test vehicle. Honda then goes on to say that they do not recommend E-10 for some other vehicle models because there may be driveability issues.

The Mitsu tested is described only as a more than 10-year-old 4G-15 engine.

Mitsu's compatibility statement reads "all petrol engines manufactured since 1986 will operate satisfactorily ....... vehicles with carburetors before 1991 may experience hot fuel handling concerns and may experience a lower level of durability in some fuel system components".

Also tested were some unnamed 10 year + European cars, that the Ministry claim showed no engine problems. Euro manufacturer statements show however, that some or all models of Alfa, Audi, Fiat, Lotus, MG, Rover, Porsche, Ferrari, Maserati, Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, and Volkswagen are either gasohol incompatible or not recommended.

The Ministry is conspicuously silent regarding compatibility of the 23 million small motorcycles on Thai roads. Note that no major Japanese manufacturer, including Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, or Kawasaki recommends the use of gasohol.

Thai vehicle manufacturers seem loath to publish a statement on gasohol. The public must educate themselves about compatibility, as the information coming out from the Energy Ministry and PTT is circumspect at best. See for yourself at:

http://www.autoindustries.com.au/ethanol.p...8/00000005.html

http://www.abc.net.au/brisbane/stories/s1466787.htm

The new government must review the decision, to stop selling petrol 95 Jan 1. 07, and rethink the Ministry’s stated long term goal to phase out petrol entirely by 2012. By all means introduce gasohol, but keep petrol available for those that have no other choice.

Robert Straghan

Chiangmai

I for one will not be trusting a station owner with 1/2 day training in what my car/bike can use, and even less trusting in the semi-literate gas jockey.

Read the links to the manufacturers compatibility statements and judge for yourself.

Lets not even get started on "is it cheaper"

Robert

There is supposed to be a definitive list somewhere... but I cannot find it.

Back in November last year, the PTT Phuket Oil Depot Manager, Vichitpong Cheanthongsub said: “We have given the manager or owner of every gas station in Phuket a half-day of training about gasohol and which engines it is suitable for. It is the duty of the gas station manager to train staff how to serve customers.

In addition, each PTT station has been given brochures – though in Thai only – explaining to customers which engines are suitable for gasohol use.”

Has anyone seen an English version of this document, preferrably endorsed by the vehicle manufacturers?

[Axel]

Went last Saturday to shell at BKK-Sukhumvit corner Soi 23.

No more 95, can chose Gasohol or 91.

Mind you, that was OCOTBER 14th.

[Camelot]

Axel, that is scary. My turbocharged Subaru will only run on premium 95 and I've filled her up at that Shell station on the corner of Soi 23 before now. At one time they sold 97 or 98 octane there.

I'm using a Caltex station which is now down to just one premium 95 yellow pump. I go there about 6am and there is usually a queue of three or four cars waiting to use it. The other pumps are often vacant apart from a motorbike or two.

I hear Jet has already dropped non-gasohol 95.

I thought the new Energy Minister was going to keep a reserve of premium 95 for older and non-compatible cars. If he isn't, then something horrible just happened to the resale or trade-in value of my chariot, not that I want to change it.

Has anyone else experienced a premature drought?

[Camelot]

This is what we've been waiting to hear. Drinks all round for non-designated drivers to celebrate this victory for common sense...

From today's Bangkok Post (Page 1)

Ministry puts off indefinitely the phase-out of octane 95

ARANEE JAIIMSIN

The Energy Ministry has postponed indefinitely its plan to phase out octane 95 gasoline from Jan 1 next year due to insufficient supplies of ethanol, uncertainty over gasohol quality and car manufacturers refusing to guarantee the alternative fuel is compatible with all their models. The Energy Ministry needs to discuss with ethanol producers their supply capacity and the price of the fuel next week before making any further decisions, according to permanent secretary for energy Pornchai Rujiprapha.

Bangkok Post (Oct 19, 2006 edition)

Continued at:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/19Oct2006_biz02.php

Temporary link

[Jai Dee]

See also this thread in the News Forum.

[Hog Head]

So..... they are delaying the introduction for 3 months while they talk to the ethanol producers about how long the phasing out of petrol 95 can be delayed. Lets not forget that the plan not only includes petrol 95, but the complete withdrawl of petrol by 2012.

One can only hope that they talk to the auto and bike manufacturers as well and get it through their thick heads that there are just too many vehicles incapable of running on gasohol to withdraw petrol from the market.

Manufacturers have valid technical reasons refuse to certify that their cars are not gasohol compatible despite claims by the government and PTT to the contrary. The technical aspects of the problem are well known, and presumably the manufacturers know what is best for their cars.

I have posted the compatibility statements here before. Note that the list of incompatible cars includes both new and recent auto production, plus every Japanese made motorcycle. Given that the number of motorcycles alone exceeds 23 million, the governments claim that there are only 500,000 non-compatible gasohol vehicles in Thailand is wildly inaccurate.

It would have been much easier to blame this ill thought through decision on the previous administration, but luckily the Ministry has a face saving way out of this mess. Ethanol producers cannot meet demand on Jan 1, 07; and vehicle manufacturers cannot certify E-10 compatibility for older and current production cars. The government has an easy out to do the right thing and ensure the availability of petrol 95 and 91 for the literally millions of motorists that have no other choice. Perhaps this 3 month delay is the first step in that face saving process.

Hopefully this foolish decision will just fade away like so many others.

[BlackArtemis]

Toss some octane booster in the 91 and hope for the best.

[Crossy]

Toss some octane booster in the 91 and hope for the best.

Problem is, AFAIK nobody has a reliable sourse of a non-alcohol octane booster, also really need the info as to how much is needed, cost could be prohibitive.

Solved my problem by selling my beloved old Beemer (which hated gasohol even more than it disliked 91), bought a diesel pickup.