Turkey accuses Russia of 'ethnic cleansing', Putin invites UK experts to examine black box data

[webfact]

Turkey accuses Russia of “ethnic cleansing” in Syria, Putin invites UK experts to examine Sukhoi black box data
By Robert Hackwill



PARIS: -- The noise of sabres being rattled continues to dominate Russo-Turkish relations. In Moscow President Vladimir Putin has received the flight recorder from the Sukhoi downed by the Turks, and is inviting British experts to examine its data. He is certain it will confirm his plane was not in Turkish airspace when attacked, and appears confident the data will support Russia’s claims.

“Of course, we need to know where exactly the jet was when it was shot down, but it won’t change our attitude towards what was done by the Turkish authorities. We treated Turkey not just as a friend but as an ally in the fight against terror. No one was expecting this vile treacherous stab in the back,” said Putin.

In Turkey both President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu accused the Russians of ethnic cleansing in Syria, although in later comments Davutoglu suggested that to avoid any future unfortunate incidents it would be a good idea if both sides talked. There has been no sign of a desire to talk on Moscow’s part since relations took a nosedive. The Turks claim they have tried to contact Moscow in vain.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-12-10

[Kerryd]

The Kurds must be shaking their heads at Erdogan's remarks, accusing Russia of "ethnic cleansing" for their bombing of the Turkmen (ethnic Turks) in Syria while ignoring Turkey's own actions against the Kurds (not to mention the Armenians).

It seems Turkey is losing the public relations battle and is in dire need of a publicity boost, or at least a way of shifting attention away from themselves and their own actions. Between shooting down the Russian jet, rumours of Erdogan's son buying oil from ISIS (and Erdogan allegedly allowing the tanker convoys to travel from ISIS held areas into Turkey uncontested), Turkey having troops (uninvited) in Iraq and Turkey's own actions against the Kurds, they are digging themselves into a hole that NATO and the EU isn't going to bail them out of. Turkey is supporting the Turkmen no doubt with the idea that if they can control a good sized hunk of Syria, it could then later be "annexed" to Turkey much the same way Russia did with Crimea. They have also been oppressing the Kurds in order to prevent them from trying to the same thing to Turkey. Erdogan is playing the "do as I say, not as I do" game which is pretty transparent to all involved. I would not be surprised if the "ethnic cleansing" accusations don't help he'll play the "WMD" card next. Probably just a matter of time before "someone" uses chemical weapons and then tries to blame someone else (again).

Trying to find a reference to NATO's obligations if a NATO member starts a war with a non-NATO nation (say Turkey declared war on Azerbaijan for some reason). If anyone attacks a NATO nation then all NATO nations are obligated to respond, but what if it is the other way around ? I can't imagine that NATO would be obligated to go to war if Italy declared war on Ethiopia for example, or Canada (hahahaha) declared war on East Timor. It would be too easy for a member nation to suddenly grow balls well beyond their own military capability if they knew NATO would be forced to back their play.

If Turkey initiated a war against Russia it would put NATO (and the EU) in a bind. If Russia was dumb enough to declare war on Turkey then it is pretty clear that NATO would be forced to respond.

[SgtRock]

NATO's remit is aggression against a NATO member State, not the other way round.

Turkey is seriously deluded if they think they will have NATO backup if they initiate a war against Russia.

Edited to add.

KerryD. Try looking for Article 5. I think that's where you will find what you are looking for.

Edited December 10, 2015 by SgtRock

[metisdead]

A post containing a link and content from a less than reputable source has been removed.

[retarius]

The Kurds must be shaking their heads at Erdogan's remarks, accusing Russia of "ethnic cleansing" for their bombing of the Turkmen (ethnic Turks) in Syria while ignoring Turkey's own actions against the Kurds (not to mention the Armenians).

It seems Turkey is losing the public relations battle and is in dire need of a publicity boost, or at least a way of shifting attention away from themselves and their own actions. Between shooting down the Russian jet, rumours of Erdogan's son buying oil from ISIS (and Erdogan allegedly allowing the tanker convoys to travel from ISIS held areas into Turkey uncontested), Turkey having troops (uninvited) in Iraq and Turkey's own actions against the Kurds, they are digging themselves into a hole that NATO and the EU isn't going to bail them out of. Turkey is supporting the Turkmen no doubt with the idea that if they can control a good sized hunk of Syria, it could then later be "annexed" to Turkey much the same way Russia did with Crimea. They have also been oppressing the Kurds in order to prevent them from trying to the same thing to Turkey. Erdogan is playing the "do as I say, not as I do" game which is pretty transparent to all involved. I would not be surprised if the "ethnic cleansing" accusations don't help he'll play the "WMD" card next. Probably just a matter of time before "someone" uses chemical weapons and then tries to blame someone else (again).

Trying to find a reference to NATO's obligations if a NATO member starts a war with a non-NATO nation (say Turkey declared war on Azerbaijan for some reason). If anyone attacks a NATO nation then all NATO nations are obligated to respond, but what if it is the other way around ? I can't imagine that NATO would be obligated to go to war if Italy declared war on Ethiopia for example, or Canada (hahahaha) declared war on East Timor. It would be too easy for a member nation to suddenly grow balls well beyond their own military capability if they knew NATO would be forced to back their play.

If Turkey initiated a war against Russia it would put NATO (and the EU) in a bind. If Russia was dumb enough to declare war on Turkey then it is pretty clear that NATO would be forced to respond.

These are numerous reports in the press that Turkey's presence in Mosul, Iraq was authorized by the US itself. This claim came from the Turkish government which have not proved to be the most credible witnesses in the past, but if it is true, then the rumors for breaking Iraq and Syria into parts, with a large swathe from east Syria into Iraq being a new Sunnistan with Turkey playing a lead role in this. Syria would be reduced to a 100 miles wide piece of territory along the western edge of current Syria. This would enable the Russian economy to be weakened by a pipeline through Sunni territory from Saudi to Turkey, reducing western dependence on Russian gas.

The uS has said that Iraq and Turkey must sort the problem out themselves which leads credence to them inviting the Turks in to fulfill some hidden agenda on their part.

Another really odd thing is that the US is co-sponsoring the Russian request for tougher sanctions against funders of terrorism and ISIS in particular; given the Yanks blind eyes so far as to the issue it boggles the mind to come up with a logical explanation for this.

Personally I am deeply suspicious of the US's role as an honest broker in the Middle East.

[Kiloman]

In Moscow President Vladimir Putin has received the flight recorder from the Sukhoi downed by the Turks, and is inviting British experts to examine its data. He is certain it will confirm his plane was not in Turkish airspace when attacked, and appears confident the data will support Russia’s claims.

If the black box data really confirms that the Russian plane did not enter the Turkish airspace, Turkey and its allies will lose their face once again.

Shooting down the Russian plane over Syria was a well planned provocation.

http://www.telegraph...a-jet-live.html

The Kremlin accused Ankara of conspiring in advance to “ambush” the SU-24 jet as it carried out a bombing mission against rebel groups near the Turkish-Syrian border on Tuesday morning.

The pilot, Lt Col Oleg Peshkov, was shot dead by rebels as he parachuted to earth. The navigator, Capt Konstanin Murakhin, survived, despite initial reports that he too had been killed.

He was rescued from behind rebel lines by a Russian-Syrian mission. Speaking publicly for the first time this evening (see video below), Capt Murakhin denied that his aircraft had entered Turkish airspace "even for a single second."

He also rejected the Turkish claim that its F-16 had repeatedly warned the Russian jet before opening fire.

"There have been no warnings whatsoever," said Capt Murakhtin, who added that he wanted to keep flying missions from the base "to pay them back for my commander".

[craigt3365]

The Kurds must be shaking their heads at Erdogan's remarks, accusing Russia of "ethnic cleansing" for their bombing of the Turkmen (ethnic Turks) in Syria while ignoring Turkey's own actions against the Kurds (not to mention the Armenians).

It seems Turkey is losing the public relations battle and is in dire need of a publicity boost, or at least a way of shifting attention away from themselves and their own actions. Between shooting down the Russian jet, rumours of Erdogan's son buying oil from ISIS (and Erdogan allegedly allowing the tanker convoys to travel from ISIS held areas into Turkey uncontested), Turkey having troops (uninvited) in Iraq and Turkey's own actions against the Kurds, they are digging themselves into a hole that NATO and the EU isn't going to bail them out of. Turkey is supporting the Turkmen no doubt with the idea that if they can control a good sized hunk of Syria, it could then later be "annexed" to Turkey much the same way Russia did with Crimea. They have also been oppressing the Kurds in order to prevent them from trying to the same thing to Turkey. Erdogan is playing the "do as I say, not as I do" game which is pretty transparent to all involved. I would not be surprised if the "ethnic cleansing" accusations don't help he'll play the "WMD" card next. Probably just a matter of time before "someone" uses chemical weapons and then tries to blame someone else (again).

Trying to find a reference to NATO's obligations if a NATO member starts a war with a non-NATO nation (say Turkey declared war on Azerbaijan for some reason). If anyone attacks a NATO nation then all NATO nations are obligated to respond, but what if it is the other way around ? I can't imagine that NATO would be obligated to go to war if Italy declared war on Ethiopia for example, or Canada (hahahaha) declared war on East Timor. It would be too easy for a member nation to suddenly grow balls well beyond their own military capability if they knew NATO would be forced to back their play.

If Turkey initiated a war against Russia it would put NATO (and the EU) in a bind. If Russia was dumb enough to declare war on Turkey then it is pretty clear that NATO would be forced to respond.

It's not only the Turkmen the Russians are hurting. Many ethnic Turks in Eastern Ukraine also. And they are not being treated very well. A sort spot between Russian and Turkey for some time.

[craigt3365]

In Moscow President Vladimir Putin has received the flight recorder from the Sukhoi downed by the Turks, and is inviting British experts to examine its data. He is certain it will confirm his plane was not in Turkish airspace when attacked, and appears confident the data will support Russia’s claims.

If the black box data really confirms that the Russian plane did not enter the Turkish airspace, Turkey and its allies will lose their face once again.

Shooting down the Russian plane over Syria was a well planned provocation.

http://www.telegraph...a-jet-live.html

The Kremlin accused Ankara of conspiring in advance to “ambush” the SU-24 jet as it carried out a bombing mission against rebel groups near the Turkish-Syrian border on Tuesday morning.

The pilot, Lt Col Oleg Peshkov, was shot dead by rebels as he parachuted to earth. The navigator, Capt Konstanin Murakhin, survived, despite initial reports that he too had been killed.

He was rescued from behind rebel lines by a Russian-Syrian mission. Speaking publicly for the first time this evening (see video below), Capt Murakhin denied that his aircraft had entered Turkish airspace "even for a single second."

He also rejected the Turkish claim that its F-16 had repeatedly warned the Russian jet before opening fire.

"There have been no warnings whatsoever," said Capt Murakhtin, who added that he wanted to keep flying missions from the base "to pay them back for my commander".

These are accusations from Russia. Nothing substantiates them. The US has indicated the Russian plane was in Turkish airspace. Though for only a short amount of time. They also verified the warnings.

[Thorgal]

Was not really revealed in Western media, but latest AKP elections win were far from reliable.

During the last 2 months of those elections in Turkey, more people died than the people who died in Syria since February 2011 till Conference of Geneva of June 2012.

Many Turkish Kurdish villages were destroyed by Turkish army. Some 300 kirdish shops were destroyed in a sort of Kristallnacht style.

Erdogan is blaming Russia of genocide against 'Syrian' Turkmen militants. Let's not forget that those militants were responsible to move Kurdish population more north, in a sort of pseudo Kurdistan, all this under Turkish supervision. This is the main plan, to separate them from Kurdish oil fields.

The leader of the Turkmen who kiled the pilot had Turkish nationality. He belongs to a Turkish terrorist organisation of the Gray wolves, known for an attempt to assassinate the Pope in the past.

Those same Turkmen who were responsible for the early fall of Aleppo in 2011, which resulted in a massive move of Syrian textile machinery to concurrent Turkey. Some 3000 workshops were destroyed afterwards. Many Syrian refugees are now working in Turkey on Syrian textile machinery for wages far below minimum Turkish salary.

Russian military radar footage showed Russian Su-24 entering 17 seconds in to Turkey, while the Turkish F-16 went 40 seconds into Syria to make a U-turn.

Spanish NATO radar base covers and coordinates all NATO movements from its members. They are equipped with latest 3D imagery, but no data has been made public.

2 hours prior to the Turkish F-16 attack, a US AWACS left Greece and could cover the area.

NATO provided Turkey with the PATRIOT missiles defence system back in 2013. Turkey didn't use them, because they need coordinated 'permission' from the NATO.

http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2015_05/20150508_1505-Factsheet-PATRIOT_en.pdf

Turkish AKP government is preserving the plan to delocalisation of Kurds in the north. Russian intervention makes it more and more difficult to realise this...

Edited December 10, 2015 by Thorgal

[derator01]

Please stick to the topic.

[casualbiker]

In Moscow President Vladimir Putin has received the flight recorder from the Sukhoi downed by the Turks, and is inviting British experts to examine its data. He is certain it will confirm his plane was not in Turkish airspace when attacked, and appears confident the data will support Russia’s claims.

If the black box data really confirms that the Russian plane did not enter the Turkish airspace, Turkey and its allies will lose their face once again.

Shooting down the Russian plane over Syria was a well planned provocation.

http://www.telegraph...a-jet-live.html

The Kremlin accused Ankara of conspiring in advance to “ambush” the SU-24 jet as it carried out a bombing mission against rebel groups near the Turkish-Syrian border on Tuesday morning.

The pilot, Lt Col Oleg Peshkov, was shot dead by rebels as he parachuted to earth. The navigator, Capt Konstanin Murakhin, survived, despite initial reports that he too had been killed.

He was rescued from behind rebel lines by a Russian-Syrian mission. Speaking publicly for the first time this evening (see video below), Capt Murakhin denied that his aircraft had entered Turkish airspace "even for a single second."

He also rejected the Turkish claim that its F-16 had repeatedly warned the Russian jet before opening fire.

"There have been no warnings whatsoever," said Capt Murakhtin, who added that he wanted to keep flying missions from the base "to pay them back for my commander".

These are accusations from Russia. Nothing substantiates them. The US has indicated the Russian plane was in Turkish airspace. Though for only a short amount of time. They also verified the warnings.

really! They have the Russian plane responding or just the Turkish guy saying " enGarde"

[craigt3365]

Don't know about the Russian plane, but they did hear the Turkish controllers warning the plane to stay out of Turkish airspace. As they have had to do on more than one occasion. This wasn't the first incursion into Turkish airspace. The other time was a "mistake" according to Russian officials.

[Stokakrishna]

Turkey. country which killed over million Armenians, been killing Kurds for years, accuses Russia of ethnic cleansing...

not defending Russians for flying into Turkish airspace. But those Turkish hypocrites should shut their mouth

Edited December 11, 2015 by Stokakrishna

[JHolmesJr]

What ethnic cleansing? Russkies are just trying to get rid of elements that have entered its borders, uninvited, trying to destabilise Syria, their ally who invited them to do so.

Erdy has erred.

No foul, play on!

Edited December 11, 2015 by JHolmesJr