UK expats for EU exit

[geriatrickid]

we all know that little boys, age 8-10, are quite curious. they are known to pee on an anthill and watch with great interest what happens. today i'll try something similar and claim

-that the United Kingdom will not exit the European Union

and

-that the often proclaimed failure and dissolution of the European Union is wishful thinking.

I too doubt the UK will leave the EU. However, we will know if the EU is serious if Merkel and the friends of the UK over rule Hollande and Michel and oust that tyrant Junckers. If he is tossed, then a clear message will be sent that the EU cares.

I would counter that there already is a loss because it should not have gotten to this point. If he UK goes then what one would have left is a France-Germany union cheered on by the insignificant states of Luxembourg and Belgium. There is no way that the Netherlands, Denmark, the Baltic states and most of the former east block countries would stick around to see Europe dominated by the Germans and the pandering French.

Many of the concerns voiced by the UK are shared by a similar majority of citizens in much of the EU. Austria gave a clear indication of its views on the free passage of illegal migrants when it instituted border controls didn't it? That was a far more draconian position than the UK had adopted. The Belgian bureaucrats did not negotiate in good faith and that horrid man Junckers sabotaged efforts to make this right.

Hollande will do his best to relive the glory days of Marshal Petain and his Vichy regime but I don't believe the Germans are going to take the bait. They don't want the responsibility of taking on Putin alone or of trying to reassure countries that at one time were occupied by Germany, that all is well. How much more pain can Germany take? Spain is teetering and Greece is on life support. France's economy is on the brink of a meltdown. Germany doesn't want or need the aggravation because the French and Belgians want to recreate one of their useless empires. There is absolutely no way that Denmark or Poland will accept a German/French dominated EU. The UK was the counterweight to such a condition. France and Belgium tried to bully John Bull and they lost. The British are not unarmed Congolese or Vietnamese to be slaughtered and abused.

[jpinx]

either you "clearly" don't understand simple English or "clearly" your logical thinking is impaired. but no worries! a lot of Brexiteers are suffering from lack of logic when it concerns EU-membership.

There is precedent for the UK parliament requiring a certain threshold of votes cast rather than a simple majority to win the day. This was the situation for the Scottish devolution referendum of 1979, which had a remarkably similar result to that of the recent EU vote..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_devolution_referendum,_1979

'An amendment to the Act stipulated that it would be repealed if fewer than 40% of the total electorate voted Yes in the referendum. The result was that 51.6% supported the proposal, but with a turnout of 64%, this represented only 32.9% of the registered electorate. The Act was subsequently repealed.'

Thus the Act was scrapped and devolution did not go forward at that time.

Interestingly, if a similar condition had applied in the recent EU vote, with a requirement that a change of the status quo needed a minimum of 40% of the electorate(Leavers gained 37.5%), then the Remainers would have won the day despite, as with the 1979 referendum, a majority voting for a change.

The previous referendum on Scotland was set up with that requirement for 40% to carry the day. The Brexit referendum was not setup in that way, for reasons unkown to us mere mortals, but if the politicians had half a brain they should have seen this coming.

Interestingly the repercussions are false -- The pound is at a similar low against the euro as it was in 2008, and several times since then, but the euro has been down against the US$ for the past 2 years. Corporation tax reductions have stopped any talk of corporate departures, and the UK political scene is exposed for what it is -- a charade.

Edited July 6, 2016 by jpinx

[MissAndry]

Interestingly the repercussions are false -- The pound is at a similar low against the euro as it was in 2008, and several times since then, but the euro has been down against the US$ for the past 2 years. Corporation tax reductions have stopped any talk of corporate departures, and the UK political scene is exposed for what it is -- a charade.

Yes, as I pointed out earlier,

GBP down 13% against Thai Baht in 7 years.

Euro down 12% against Thai Baht in 2 years.

Not a lot of difference, while the Swedes, Norwegians, Russians and Australians are around DOUBLE those losses.

[jpinx]

It's very hard to guage the real hurt -- the currency markets are such knee-jerk places you need to look long term. Today is a classic - - Asia gave everyone the willies this morning and the Chilcot report is going to be read today -- all reasons to take the currency down.

edited to remove crappy formatting

Edited July 6, 2016 by jpinx

[nong38]

Her Majesties Government has today announced that there will be no debate in Parliament about the result of the recent referendum which resulted in the UK opting to leave the EU.

No debate, no 2nd referendum. no retrospectives, whatever is said, whatever people might think, its game over, the referendum result stands, everyone need to just get used to it and get on with life.

Today has not been a good one though for us, we knew there would bound to be a downturn but who big and how long before things get better? Looks like it will take longer than I thought.

We will have different ideas as to how much pain it is worth, but then what price do you place on the freedom to control your own destiny?

The UK saved Europe twice before, this result may turn out to be the third.

[nong38]

what part of my comment is it you (pretend) to not understand?

please don't forget that in a "real" democracy decisions with huge and far reaching consequences need a majority of two thirds or even 75%. the Brexit margin was very low.

You clearly do not understand how the British Constitution works, or the first past the post system, or how a vote of no confidence works, you can go and read what it says in guide to Parliament but then you have to understand what you have read and remember this the UK way, the way it is, its not a continental model. If people dont turn out to vote thats up to them, the upper limit in theory is 100% turn out, most GEs are won with less than 40% voting for the winning side of whatever turnout, there is no 66 or 75% to validate it. It has its faults but thats the way it is.

I think before lecturing people on British constitutional law you should first read and inwardly digest what it says about who has tge authority to make laws, enter into and exit from treaties.

The referendum result has no legal authority over parliament.

Apparently it does as the HMG have said today that it will not be debated in Parliament. End of story, game over, the result stands.

I admitted I was not a lawyer, but some things I do know about.

Thats all folks!!

[Naam]

I think before lecturing people on British constitutional law you should first read and inwardly digest what it says about who has tge authority to make laws, enter into and exit from treaties.

The referendum result has no legal authority over parliament.

Apparently it does as the HMG have said today that it will not be debated in Parliament. End of story, game over, the result stands.

I admitted I was not a lawyer, but some things I do know about.

Thats all folks!!

apparently you are unable to provide a link verifying these news.

[Naam]

Apparently it does as the HMG have said today that it will not be debated in Parliament. End of story, game over, the result stands.

I admitted I was not a lawyer, but some things I do know about.

Thats all folks!!

apparently somebody thinks that a wee bit of büllshyting won't hurt.

[jpinx]

Whatever anyone says -- the divorce will not happen unless UK invokes Article 50, and not a single one of the sitting politicians has said they will do that.

[nong38]

The link was in yesterdays Daily Express, you must be more diligent Naam!

It is possible that the money that is backing the lawyers to start a debate in Parliament may very well wish to take their case to the courts and take on the HMG. The wheels of Justice do not turn quickly however and by the time it might to court it would already be to late. The Government could repeal the 1972 European Communities bill, Invoke Article 50 giving notice to leave the Eu or even the EU might attempt to throw us out early.

Everyone should really just accept the will of the people, trying to circumvent the democratic process is futile and is contrary to any civilized society, there have to rules whether you like them or not.

[nong38]

Whatever anyone says -- the divorce will not happen unless UK invokes Article 50, and not a single one of the sitting politicians has said they will do that.

Of the politicians looking to become the next PM, Andrea Leadsom has said that if she becomes leader she will invoke Article 50 straight away, whilst all the others have said they will not rush into it, they need to think it forward before the 2 year extraction process starts.

[Naam]

The link was in yesterdays Daily Express, you must be more diligent Naam!

It is possible that the money that is backing the lawyers to start a debate in Parliament may very well wish to take their case to the courts and take on the HMG. The wheels of Justice do not turn quickly however and by the time it might to court it would already be to late. The Government could repeal the 1972 European Communities bill, Invoke Article 50 giving notice to leave the Eu or even the EU might attempt to throw us out early.

Everyone should really just accept the will of the people, trying to circumvent the democratic process is futile and is contrary to any civilized society, there have to rules whether you like them or not.

and you must reduce your wishful thinking which leads to misinterpretations.

this is what the search function of Daily and Sunday Express shows which is not open to a Brexiteers interpretation or wishful thinking such as

"the HMG have said today that it will not be debated in Parliament"

because government lawyers do not decide whether there's a parliamentary debate or a vote on Brexit.

Government lawyers have now confirmed there does NOT need to be a vote in parliament before Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which triggers the two-year process of negotiating the UK's withdrawal from the EU.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/686598/Remain-hopes-dashed-Article-50-does-NOT-need-Commons-approval-EU-exit-lawyers

[jpinx]

The link was in yesterdays Daily Express, you must be more diligent Naam!

It is possible that the money that is backing the lawyers to start a debate in Parliament may very well wish to take their case to the courts and take on the HMG. The wheels of Justice do not turn quickly however and by the time it might to court it would already be to late. The Government could repeal the 1972 European Communities bill, Invoke Article 50 giving notice to leave the Eu or even the EU might attempt to throw us out early.

Everyone should really just accept the will of the people, trying to circumvent the democratic process is futile and is contrary to any civilized society, there have to rules whether you like them or not.

and you must reduce your wishful thinking which leads to misinterpretations.

this is what the search function of Daily and Sunday Express shows which is not open to a Brexiteers interpretation or wishful thinking such as

"the HMG have said today that it will not be debated in Parliament"

because government lawyers do not decide whether there's a parliamentary debate or a vote on Brexit.

Government lawyers have now confirmed there does NOT need to be a vote in parliament before Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which triggers the two-year process of negotiating the UK's withdrawal from the EU.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/686598/Remain-hopes-dashed-Article-50-does-NOT-need-Commons-approval-EU-exit-lawyers

That could be a game-changer -- removing the need to turn enough of the majority of politicians around from their Remain stance . On the other hand, and in spite of the one outsider now saying she would "do it" - where is the declaration that the result of the referendum has become binding? It was only advisory (last time I looked.

[nong38]

Ladrokes are quoting 6/4 against the UK being in the EU in 2020.

[billd766]

Ladrokes are quoting 6/4 against the UK being in the EU in 2020.

What odds are they quoting that there will even be an EU by 2020?

[dick dasterdly]

The link was in yesterdays Daily Express, you must be more diligent Naam!

It is possible that the money that is backing the lawyers to start a debate in Parliament may very well wish to take their case to the courts and take on the HMG. The wheels of Justice do not turn quickly however and by the time it might to court it would already be to late. The Government could repeal the 1972 European Communities bill, Invoke Article 50 giving notice to leave the Eu or even the EU might attempt to throw us out early.

Everyone should really just accept the will of the people, trying to circumvent the democratic process is futile and is contrary to any civilized society, there have to rules whether you like them or not.

and you must reduce your wishful thinking which leads to misinterpretations.

this is what the search function of Daily and Sunday Express shows which is not open to a Brexiteers interpretation or wishful thinking such as

"the HMG have said today that it will not be debated in Parliament"

because government lawyers do not decide whether there's a parliamentary debate or a vote on Brexit.

Government lawyers have now confirmed there does NOT need to be a vote in parliament before Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which triggers the two-year process of negotiating the UK's withdrawal from the EU.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/686598/Remain-hopes-dashed-Article-50-does-NOT-need-Commons-approval-EU-exit-lawyers

So HMG have said that Article 50 can be invoked without a parliamentary vote?

[Jip99]

My stubborn attitude is that more than 50% wins the vote.

Even if only 3 people turned out to vote.

the vote was a skirmish or at best a battle, out of many battles to come, that was won.

Spoken like a true loser!

[MissAndry]

My stubborn attitude is that more than 50% wins the vote.

Even if only 3 people turned out to vote.

the vote was a skirmish or at best a battle, out of many battles to come, that was won.

Spoken like a true loser!

The Germans have been saying the same since 1914, but they still keep losing and we keep kicking their <deleted>.

You've got to give them points for perseverance though, 'if at first you don't succeed ....'

Edited July 8, 2016 by MissAndry

[Naam]

My stubborn attitude is that more than 50% wins the vote.

Even if only 3 people turned out to vote.

the vote was a skirmish or at best a battle, out of many battles to come, that was won.

Spoken like a true loser!

spoken like a true ignoramus!

a cosmopolitan like me living in Asia doesn't lose anything because of an irrelevant referendum concerning leave or stay of an irrelevant country in an irrelevant economic and political union causes a fall of an irrelevant currency by any percentage.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Naam

[HauptmannUK]

My stubborn attitude is that more than 50% wins the vote.

Even if only 3 people turned out to vote.

the vote was a skirmish or at best a battle, out of many battles to come, that was won.

Spoken like a true loser!

The Germans have been saying the same since 1914, but they still keep losing and we keep kicking their <deleted>.

You've got to give them points for perseverance though, 'if at first you don't succeed ....'

LOL! The Germans have lost? You see Brexit as giving the Germans a kicking? Absolutely insane. Its not Germany that will see its currency collapse or dole queues lengthen. Germany will continue to prosper. Brexit is going to do more harm to the UK than was ever inflicted by its enemies.

Cameron handed the population a live grenade and they promptly pulled out the pin.

[MissAndry]

the vote was a skirmish or at best a battle, out of many battles to come, that was won.

Spoken like a true loser!

The Germans have been saying the same since 1914, but they still keep losing and we keep kicking their <deleted>.

You've got to give them points for perseverance though, 'if at first you don't succeed ....'

LOL! The Germans have lost? You see Brexit as giving the Germans a kicking? Absolutely insane. Its not Germany that will see its currency collapse or dole queues lengthen. Germany will continue to prosper. Brexit is going to do more harm to the UK than was ever inflicted by its enemies.

Cameron handed the population a live grenade and they promptly pulled out the pin.

The EU aka the Fourth Reich, is on the edge of the toilet bowl at the moment, waiting for someone to flush it.

Greece is impossible, Italy is bankrupt and has it's hand out for a big bail, Deutsche bank is too big to fail, but on the edge.

Can't see Germany doing any better than the Uk, in fact the entire western banking system could fail any day.

[dick dasterdly]

One of the few things we do know is that the unexpected (to put it mildly!) result has destabilised both the UK and EU.

What happens from here depends on all the politicians involved .

Unless, of course, they recognise Blair's claim that is a true statesman and decide he is the right one to lead 'talks' .

Edited July 8, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[brexiteer]

Brexit bounce-back begins: FTSE UP, mortgages DOWN, pensions UP in bright post-EU future LOWER mortgage costs, higher pension values and a booming stock market were today indicating that Britain’s Brexit bounce-back may have begun.

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/687286/Brexit-bounce-back-FTSE-up-mortgages-down-pensions-up

[DUS]

Brexit bounce-back begins: FTSE UP, mortgages DOWN, pensions UP in bright post-EU future LOWER mortgage costs, higher pension values and a booming stock market were today indicating that Britain’s Brexit bounce-back may have begun.

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/687286/Brexit-bounce-back-FTSE-up-mortgages-down-pensions-up

You´ve got to love the Express..... Reading the article made me laugh so much I am now ready to start the weekend.

Cheers!

[Naam]

Brexit bounce-back begins: FTSE UP, mortgages DOWN, pensions UP in bright post-EU future LOWER mortgage costs, higher pension values and a booming stock market were today indicating that Britain’s Brexit bounce-back may have begun.

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/687286/Brexit-bounce-back-FTSE-up-mortgages-down-pensions-up

You´ve got to love the Express..... Reading the article made me laugh so much I am now ready to start the weekend.

Cheers!

if i was a Brit i wouldn't laugh but get angry that a journàrselist is trying to insult my intelligence.

[jpinx]

Brexit bounce-back begins: FTSE UP, mortgages DOWN, pensions UP in bright post-EU future LOWER mortgage costs, higher pension values and a booming stock market were today indicating that Britain’s Brexit bounce-back may have begun.

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/687286/Brexit-bounce-back-FTSE-up-mortgages-down-pensions-up

You´ve got to love the Express..... Reading the article made me laugh so much I am now ready to start the weekend.

Cheers!

if i was a Brit i wouldn't laugh but get angry that a journàrselist is trying to insult my intelligence.

....but you're not a Brit (by your own admission) - so let the BRITISH people decide what they want. There was and still is, enough misleading crap coming out of the Remain camp, so the Express has just balanced things out a bit. Anyone who relies on journalists or politicians to "tell the truth and shame the devil" will always be mislead......

[jpinx]

The conservative leadership is not going to be resolved until September, so there's plenty of time for things to settle down. Already the signs are that the only people who are twitching are the financial markets dealers. If they stop spilling their coffee every time there's a .001% change, then things will stabilise and we'll see the true picture. Have any of the contributors here actually been to a "money market"? It's mayhem - headless chickens running around with headsets on and knee-jerking at every tiny movement in the prices. The biggest worry is the way the software-trading programmes are written, though I believe there are runaway-preventers now.

[nong38]

The link was in yesterdays Daily Express, you must be more diligent Naam!

It is possible that the money that is backing the lawyers to start a debate in Parliament may very well wish to take their case to the courts and take on the HMG. The wheels of Justice do not turn quickly however and by the time it might to court it would already be to late. The Government could repeal the 1972 European Communities bill, Invoke Article 50 giving notice to leave the Eu or even the EU might attempt to throw us out early.

Everyone should really just accept the will of the people, trying to circumvent the democratic process is futile and is contrary to any civilized society, there have to rules whether you like them or not.

and you must reduce your wishful thinking which leads to misinterpretations.

this is what the search function of Daily and Sunday Express shows which is not open to a Brexiteers interpretation or wishful thinking such as

"the HMG have said today that it will not be debated in Parliament"

because government lawyers do not decide whether there's a parliamentary debate or a vote on Brexit.

Government lawyers have now confirmed there does NOT need to be a vote in parliament before Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which triggers the two-year process of negotiating the UK's withdrawal from the EU.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/686598/Remain-hopes-dashed-Article-50-does-NOT-need-Commons-approval-EU-exit-lawyers

So HMG have said that Article 50 can be invoked without a parliamentary vote?

Its up to the government of the day to make the decision, not Parliament. The instructions from the majority of voters in the referendum instructed the Government of the day to LEAVE the EU. The decision will be taken by either T May or A Leadsom the election for the post is open for all 150,000 Conservative members to elect who they think is best suited on 9th September, we will then be into the Party Conference Season with Conservatives being last, usually early October, thats when we should see when the Article 50 will invoked, either way it should be done by January. Leadsom says she would do it quickly, May is not in so much of a hurry. Its important to make sure that we have the right negotiators in the team to prize out of the EU when the time comes.

[HauptmannUK]

the vote was a skirmish or at best a battle, out of many battles to come, that was won.

Spoken like a true loser!

The Germans have been saying the same since 1914, but they still keep losing and we keep kicking their <deleted>.

You've got to give them points for perseverance though, 'if at first you don't succeed ....'

LOL! The Germans have lost? You see Brexit as giving the Germans a kicking? Absolutely insane. Its not Germany that will see its currency collapse or dole queues lengthen. Germany will continue to prosper. Brexit is going to do more harm to the UK than was ever inflicted by its enemies.

Cameron handed the population a live grenade and they promptly pulled out the pin.

The EU aka the Fourth Reich....

Absolute unalloyed idiocy.

[GuestHouse]

The conservative leadership is not going to be resolved until September, so there's plenty of time for things to settle down. Already the signs are that the only people who are twitching are the financial markets dealers. If they stop spilling their coffee every time there's a .001% change, then things will stabilise and we'll see the true picture. Have any of the contributors here actually been to a "money market"? It's mayhem - headless chickens running around with headsets on and knee-jerking at every tiny movement in the prices. The biggest worry is the way the software-trading programmes are written, though I believe there are runaway-preventers now.

As I posted when the result came in, the people and organizations who really play the market made fortunes on the volotility eitherside of the referendum vote.

Now they'll do what they need to ensure profits going forward.

The Brexit delight at financial institutions suffering is misguided.

People who have lost savings are suffering, but you'd be an idiot to believe that any government is going to allow the UK's financial sector to be run down and moved overseas.

Listen to what the candidates for the next MP are saying - they want to remove the minimum wage, remove rights to maternity pay, remove the working hours directive, 'not happy with gay marriage', want to reduce welfare, remove human rights law.

This is not freedom, other than freedom to abuse.