The heavy burden of farm life after rice-pledging scheme

[webfact]

The heavy burden of farm life after pledging scheme
Piyaporn Wongruang
The Nation


Son's daugther Walisa Sukcharoen makes maximum use of the 3-rai plot of farmland her father has given to her, growing high-priced riceberry variety.

This is the first part in a series of articles on the rice-pledging scheme

BANGKOK: -- A cool wind blew over Tao Poon village in Ratchaburi's Photharam district, bringing with it light rain that fell on rice fields. Seeing the rain, 66-year-old Son Sukcharoen rushed to spread a plastic sheet over his harvested rice so it didn't get soaked with water.

It was the last time Son would dry the rice in the sun before selling it in the market. If it got drenched and damaged, Son would have lost the investment he had put in this harvest, and that would have added to his debt.

"I have borrowed a new sum of money to invest in chemical fertilisers and pesticides for this harvest and bet that the yield this time would bring me a little better price, as I have tried joining the Good Agricultural Practices [GAP] programme," Son said.

Farmers like Son were among millions who took part in the grand rice-pledging scheme. A few years ago, the Yingluck government re-introduced the scheme, which offered farmers unprecedented price guarantees up to Bt20,000 per tonne of rice.

Critics questioned the scheme from the beginning, as it would involve almost every grain of rice in the country, a practice deemed unreasonable by many.

But farmers like Son revelled in the high prices offered, without realising that along with the high prices, their investment costs also increased, leaving them with a narrow profit margin.

However, farmers did not feel much pain until the scheme was axed.

Last year, the military government decided to scrap the scheme, following allegations of large scale corruption and losses to the state estimated at about Bt500 billion baht so far (see box).

The government gave farmers Bt1,000 baht per rai (up to 15 rai). While farmers pocketed a maximum of Bt15,000, the market price for rice is now hovering between Bt6,000 to Bt7,000 per tonne - less than half the maximum subsidy offered by the government. That means farmers are shouldering increased investment costs.

The economic position of many farmers has become more fragile due to external factors, including deep indebtedness and losing their farmland.

Local Action Links, a non-profit research think tank on the plight of Thai farmers, conducted a study on farmer debt in several areas in the Central Plains last year.

In Chai Nat's Sankhaburi district, its case study of 64 farmers under the Chai Nat Agricultural Promotions group showed just how severe the debt burden had become for farmers.

The farmers generally owned around six rai, meaning almost half of them had to rent additional farmland to grow rice. The Local Action Links says the cost of renting land is generally about a quarter of the total yield per rai, about Bt1,500. So this has added to their costs.

All 64 farmers had their land mortgaged with financial institutions. On average, they were around Bt314,000 in debt.

Son's situation is not much different. He has given the eight rai of farmland he inherited from his parents to his daughter and son, and he now has to rent 20 rai of farmland. It means a quarter of his yield goes to the landlord.

Pongtip Samranjit, the director of Local Action Links, said farmers had shouldered heavy indebtedness and farmland losses over the past 10 years. The trend has been for farmers to own less land while those losing land or renting land is on the rise, the director said.

Pontip said that after the rice-pledging scheme ceased, countless farmers had been exposed to this bitter truth more clearly, and it had become clear to the public now how much of a burden farmers were under.

Pontip said the more worrying trend was farmers deep in debt turning to loan sharks, which increased the chance of them losing their land, and even their homes.

"We have interviewed four cases who engaged in loans provided by loan sharks, and all of them have experienced attempts to kill themselves," he said.

Along with increased debt, the rice-pledging scheme has apparently also impaired many farmers' ability to learn and be self-reliant.

Krissnana Kaudlim - a 43-year-old farmer in Ratchaburi's Photharam district who formed a village farm group so farmers had more bargaining power at the market - has experienced this.

Krissana, a leader of the Photharam Agri-Nature Learning Group, said he was an indebted farmer before it was rehabilitated under the Farmers' Rehabilitation and Development Fund. It was then that he was able to redeem his family's land.

But Krissana realised that the mass production of rice was not for him, and he decided to go for training at Agri-Nature Foundation. After finishing the training, Krissana went back to his village and tried to form the farm group, applying self-reliant farming as its principle.

Shortly before the rice-pledging scheme was introduced, a group of around 10 farmers in the village joined the initiative. Through the self-reliant principle, they tried to process their rice and sell it in the local market. All the farmers collapsed because of the introduction of the scheme, he said.

He said that instead of selling the rice at the market, the farmers sold it to silos.

That resulted in the group having no rice to process, but they had to buy high-priced rice from the silos. The group collapsed.

But what hurt Krissana more was the realisation was that the group's learning process was disrupted.

With high rice prices now a thing of the past, some farmers have come back to him as he is offering a little higher price - around Bt7,800 per tonne.

"Farmers' learning and establishing groups is very important as that is a strength that farmers can have when dealing with others. And this closely connects to the economy at a fundamental level, which is community-based economic development. All have gone in the name of the scheme," said Krissana, who now is trying to rebuild his group.

Pontip said the scheme had shown once again that government farm policies did not get to fundamental or structural problems in the farm sector, which was debt, loss of land, low levels of education and a lack of self-reliance.

Pongtip said structural problems were political and she could understand why policy-makers avoided them. But as a farm advocate who had witnessed farmers endure painful experiences, Pongtip said the government could not leave the problems untouched or they would grow and become a heavy burden the country could not bear.

"The more they grow rice, the less quality of life they have," he said.

Timeline of controversy

The rice-pledging scheme was one of the Yingluck government's principal farm policies aimed at assisting farmers.

But the government, which first reintroduced the scheme for the 2011-12 farm production year, was unprecedented in terms of its scale and the price-guarantee rates.

The scheme involved 25 million tonnes in the first year, almost every gain of rice in the country, and prices as high as Bt20,000 per tonne.

When it was introduced, the government said it aimed to lift farmers' incomes and reduce the gaps in farmers' incomes, increase market access for farmers, and promote economic growth and stability via domestic consumption and self-reliance.

The National Anti-Corruption Commission launched an investigation and alleged that government-to-government deals with China were bogus and no rice was shipped to China. Relevant ministers were charged, and former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra was left facing three legal actions.

She has already been impeached, while she is still facing a criminal charge for alleged negligence for failing to act when the scheme incurred heavy losses and allegation of corruption swirled around it. At the time, she was chairwoman of the National Rice Policy Committee.

Yingluck is also facing a civil liability after the military government claimed the scheme cost the state around Bt500 billion. The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders has set the first round of evidence and witness deliberation in this case for January 15.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/The-heavy-burden-of-farm-life-after-pledging-schem-30274859.html


-- The Nation 2015-12-14

[noitom]

The money is in the middle in Thailand. There is nothing wrong with the programs and the prices. The problem is the Thai skim in the middle.

[selftaopath]

Honestly... IMO one very destructive reason for much of Thailand's woes is the issue of wanting to be precised differently (FACE) than what is reality. We live in a rural village in Isaan. People are poor by most standards. This is the reality, but so many want to appear (FACE) to be "land barons." They eek out little earnings from growing rice on small plots of land, but refuse to do much of anything else. Seems like they only want to "stay home" daily e.g. not go outside the house/farm for work. Granted so many have little to no education and can not find many work opportunities.

Surprisingly however many have nice trucks and smartphones. There always seems to be enough baht for various ceremonies which include drinking, and card playing. This way of living seems to be circular e.g. no education/few opportunities/ and ALWAYS wanting to appear (FACE) richer/smarter/more skilled than they actually are.

I think very few governments here or "rich people" really care enough to implement change for the poor Thais so this circular life style will continue.

[Skywalker69]

The money is in the middle in Thailand. There is nothing wrong with the programs and the prices. The problem is the Thai skim in the middle.

So you seriously think that buying rice for 15 000 thb/ ton with a worldmarket price of 8000 thb/ton was economically sustainable?

[trogers]

Honestly... IMO one very destructive reason for much of Thailand's woes is the issue of wanting to be precised differently (FACE) than what is reality. We live in a rural village in Isaan. People are poor by most standards. This is the reality, but so many want to appear (FACE) to be "land barons." They eek out little earnings from growing rice on small plots of land, but refuse to do much of anything else. Seems like they only want to "stay home" daily e.g. not go outside the house/farm for work. Granted so many have little to no education and can not find many work opportunities.

Surprisingly however many have nice trucks and smartphones. There always seems to be enough baht for various ceremonies which include drinking, and card playing. This way of living seems to be circular e.g. no education/few opportunities/ and ALWAYS wanting to appear (FACE) richer/smarter/more skilled than they actually are.

I think very few governments here or "rich people" really care enough to implement change for the poor Thais so this circular life style will continue.

You can put a tuxedo on a goat, but it is still a goat.

Their mindsets would only welcome handouts, and not changes to their lifestyles that would require actual work...

[ratcatcher]

Honestly... IMO one very destructive reason for much of Thailand's woes is the issue of wanting to be precised differently (FACE) than what is reality. We live in a rural village in Isaan. People are poor by most standards. This is the reality, but so many want to appear (FACE) to be "land barons." They eek out little earnings from growing rice on small plots of land, but refuse to do much of anything else. Seems like they only want to "stay home" daily e.g. not go outside the house/farm for work. Granted so many have little to no education and can not find many work opportunities.

Surprisingly however many have nice trucks and smartphones. There always seems to be enough baht for various ceremonies which include drinking, and card playing. This way of living seems to be circular e.g. no education/few opportunities/ and ALWAYS wanting to appear (FACE) richer/smarter/more skilled than they actually are.

I think very few governments here or "rich people" really care enough to implement change for the poor Thais so this circular life style will continue.

"Surprisingly however many have nice trucks and smartphones.

There always seems to be enough baht for various ceremonies which include drinking, and card playing.

This way of living seems to be circular e.g. no education/few opportunities/ and ALWAYS wanting to appear (FACE) richer/smarter/more skilled than they actually are."

One of the most common and accurate observations I have read in a while.

[jaywalker]

Honestly... IMO one very destructive reason for much of Thailand's woes is the issue of wanting to be precised differently (FACE) than what is reality. We live in a rural village in Isaan. People are poor by most standards. This is the reality, but so many want to appear (FACE) to be "land barons." They eek out little earnings from growing rice on small plots of land, but refuse to do much of anything else. Seems like they only want to "stay home" daily e.g. not go outside the house/farm for work. Granted so many have little to no education and can not find many work opportunities.

Surprisingly however many have nice trucks and smartphones. There always seems to be enough baht for various ceremonies which include drinking, and card playing. This way of living seems to be circular e.g. no education/few opportunities/ and ALWAYS wanting to appear (FACE) richer/smarter/more skilled than they actually are.

I think very few governments here or "rich people" really care enough to implement change for the poor Thais so this circular life style will continue.

You can put a tuxedo on a goat, but it is still a goat.

Their mindsets would only welcome handouts, and not changes to their lifestyles that would require actual work...

Not so sure it's an aversion to work, as much it is an aversion to learn skills that require critical thinking.

It doesn't take a lot of thinking skills to farm, but there IS a lot of work involved.

If it strains their brain in the least little bit though, they toss the whole concept of even making a remote attempt at it out the window.

Granted, that's not 100% of the population, but it does seem to more common than not.

[SoilSpoil]

Driving back from Chiang Mai to Bangkok yesterday I saw hundreds of fires on the rice fields. The slash and burn is in full swing so how about the burden on the lungs of the non farmers? Time to revamp the whole agricultural sector and time for the farmers to pick up different jobs. Thee are millions of foreign workers here, so work enough.

Time to switch from the lazy crop to either a labor intensive one (organic?) or a 'normal' job in construction, assembly or food processing.

[khunianb]

It would be helpful to show a comparison of the costs for seed, fertiliser and pesticide in Thailand compared to other ASEAN countries and also compare yields. I understand that Thai yields are quite low (around 33rd in the world). With the current water crisis the situation is only going to get worse. and could lead to social unrest.

[seajae]

unfortunately many thais do not understand living within your means, as said above "face" so much more important. My father died when I was pretty young, no govt hand outs so mum and 5 young kids had to take steps to survive. We didnt get to eat the best of meals, wear new clothes or get the latest gadgetry or cars, the 3 eldest(me included) did menial work and paper runs to earn extra money, mum worked 2 jobs, the last thing on our minds was what others thought of us. Thai farmers etc need to do the same things, forget face and try to improve their lot naturally, giving away your land to your son/daughter then complaining you have to lease land is a joke, yes these people are poor but they refuse to accept this fact and try to act as though they are not. Expecting govt handouts all the time isnt the answer, actually looking at improving what they do is, if they can afford to drink every night and gamble, have smart phones then they are living well beyond their means, time to forget about face and then maybe they will be able to get themselves out of debt.

[Eric Loh]

unfortunately many thais do not understand living within your means, as said above "face" so much more important. My father died when I was pretty young, no govt hand outs so mum and 5 young kids had to take steps to survive. We didnt get to eat the best of meals, wear new clothes or get the latest gadgetry or cars, the 3 eldest(me included) did menial work and paper runs to earn extra money, mum worked 2 jobs, the last thing on our minds was what others thought of us. Thai farmers etc need to do the same things, forget face and try to improve their lot naturally, giving away your land to your son/daughter then complaining you have to lease land is a joke, yes these people are poor but they refuse to accept this fact and try to act as though they are not. Expecting govt handouts all the time isnt the answer, actually looking at improving what they do is, if they can afford to drink every night and gamble, have smart phones then they are living well beyond their means, time to forget about face and then maybe they will be able to get themselves out of debt.

The idiosyncrasies of 'face' is not only limited to the Thais but Asians in generally. One way to described face is the avoidance of embarrassment at all costs. The patronage culture in Thailand or subordinate not pointing out error made by a superior are all part of Asian culture. Got to do with integration and community harmony quite different from Western lesser strong sense of integration and a win-loss zero sum mentality. I am afraid that culture of face will not go away for a LONG LONG TIME.

[skildpadden]

"Farmers' learning and establishing groups is very important as that is a strength that farmers can have when dealing with others. And this closely connects to the economy at a fundamental level, which is community-based economic development."

Khun Krissana tried something very constructive - trying to establish sort of a cooperative to get a better bargaining power, but was failed by his colleagues.

"He said that instead of selling the rice at the market, the farmers sold it to silos. That resulted in the group having no rice to process, but they had to buy high-priced rice from the silos. The group collapsed."

That is the case in a nutshell, many are not taught proper planning, to identify risk factors and causes/effects. You can always blame the farmers, but successive governments, present one included, has not helped anything at all. You have a lot of experts saying "don't use water, grow something else." Well, do you actively go out and advise and support them what to do instead?

I am not a farmer myself, but reading all these bad news and reports indicates that a drastic change of Thai agriculture is urgently needed. A "CEO" of Thai agriculture would certainly be alarmed and would fire most of the "experts" (as they clearly haven't proved any worth the last many years), look at best practice elsewhere in the world, establish learning centres all over the country and especially strongly encourage cooperatives buying in bulk for a better negotiating price on e.g. seeds and equipment. Perhaps crowdfunding could be a cooperative hybrid in the 21st century?

They cannot compete with the prices from elsewhere in the region, so they need to come up with either some unique selling points and market why they demand a higher price (and because it is Thai is currently not a selling point) - or they need to diversify products grown and perhaps designating different zones for different products. P

[trogers]

"Farmers' learning and establishing groups is very important as that is a strength that farmers can have when dealing with others. And this closely connects to the economy at a fundamental level, which is community-based economic development."

Khun Krissana tried something very constructive - trying to establish sort of a cooperative to get a better bargaining power, but was failed by his colleagues.

"He said that instead of selling the rice at the market, the farmers sold it to silos. That resulted in the group having no rice to process, but they had to buy high-priced rice from the silos. The group collapsed."

That is the case in a nutshell, many are not taught proper planning, to identify risk factors and causes/effects. You can always blame the farmers, but successive governments, present one included, has not helped anything at all. You have a lot of experts saying "don't use water, grow something else." Well, do you actively go out and advise and support them what to do instead?

I am not a farmer myself, but reading all these bad news and reports indicates that a drastic change of Thai agriculture is urgently needed. A "CEO" of Thai agriculture would certainly be alarmed and would fire most of the "experts" (as they clearly haven't proved any worth the last many years), look at best practice elsewhere in the world, establish learning centres all over the country and especially strongly encourage cooperatives buying in bulk for a better negotiating price on e.g. seeds and equipment. Perhaps crowdfunding could be a cooperative hybrid in the 21st century?

They cannot compete with the prices from elsewhere in the region, so they need to come up with either some unique selling points and market why they demand a higher price (and because it is Thai is currently not a selling point) - or they need to diversify products grown and perhaps designating different zones for different products. P

It is Thai is currently not a selling point primarily because the past rice scam dirtied the name with stores of rotting rice...

[scorecard]

Honestly... IMO one very destructive reason for much of Thailand's woes is the issue of wanting to be precised differently (FACE) than what is reality. We live in a rural village in Isaan. People are poor by most standards. This is the reality, but so many want to appear (FACE) to be "land barons." They eek out little earnings from growing rice on small plots of land, but refuse to do much of anything else. Seems like they only want to "stay home" daily e.g. not go outside the house/farm for work. Granted so many have little to no education and can not find many work opportunities.

Surprisingly however many have nice trucks and smartphones. There always seems to be enough baht for various ceremonies which include drinking, and card playing. This way of living seems to be circular e.g. no education/few opportunities/ and ALWAYS wanting to appear (FACE) richer/smarter/more skilled than they actually are.

I think very few governments here or "rich people" really care enough to implement change for the poor Thais so this circular life style will continue.

Members of my daughter-in-laws family (her brother and sister) fit this example. They keep buying vehicles, motorcycles, big TVs, continuously update their smartphones with very expensive models way beyond their means.

They have land and they have some education (both have bachelor degrees) and have held jobs in the past. Now they just sit at home in the North and regularly come to son's house and ask for money and continuously tell my son that he is stingy and unfair because he won't pay off their debts. Some years ago he did give both a handout for debts but it was used by both to buy expensive sedans.

My son has tried to get them to talk about starting a business (not farming) but one thing shines through every time - pure laziness.

When they come to son and D-I-L's house they tell my son he is not fair to his wife, she should have more help etc.

Their beliefs - son's father is farang, therefore rich, therefore son is rich and also not nice, just like his father. Never ends and they just get more lazy as time goes by.

[louse1953]

Honestly... IMO one very destructive reason for much of Thailand's woes is the issue of wanting to be precised differently (FACE) than what is reality. We live in a rural village in Isaan. People are poor by most standards. This is the reality, but so many want to appear (FACE) to be "land barons." They eek out little earnings from growing rice on small plots of land, but refuse to do much of anything else. Seems like they only want to "stay home" daily e.g. not go outside the house/farm for work. Granted so many have little to no education and can not find many work opportunities.

Surprisingly however many have nice trucks and smartphones. There always seems to be enough baht for various ceremonies which include drinking, and card playing. This way of living seems to be circular e.g. no education/few opportunities/ and ALWAYS wanting to appear (FACE) richer/smarter/more skilled than they actually are.

I think very few governments here or "rich people" really care enough to implement change for the poor Thais so this circular life style will continue.

Members of my daughter-in-laws family (her brother and sister) fit this example. They keep buying vehicles, motorcycles, big TVs, continuously update their smartphones with very expensive models way beyond their means.

They have land and they have some education (both have bachelor degrees) and have held jobs in the past. Now they just sit at home in the North and regularly come to son's house and ask for money and continuously tell my son that he is stingy and unfair because he won't pay off their debts. Some years ago he did give both a handout for debts but it was used by both to buy expensive sedans.

My son has tried to get them to talk about starting a business (not farming) but one thing shines through every time - pure laziness.

When they come to son and D-I-L's house they tell my son he is not fair to his wife, she should have more help etc.

Their beliefs - son's father is farang, therefore rich, therefore son is rich and also not nice, just like his father. Never ends and they just get more lazy as time goes by.

Bludgers play on making you feel bad.No is a hard word to say sometimes but it sure feels good.Bludgers and parasites will bleed you dry eventually and who does that help.It does take long for word to get out about tightening of purse strings,these type of people are not your friends,family are worse.

[scorecard]

Honestly... IMO one very destructive reason for much of Thailand's woes is the issue of wanting to be precised differently (FACE) than what is reality. We live in a rural village in Isaan. People are poor by most standards. This is the reality, but so many want to appear (FACE) to be "land barons." They eek out little earnings from growing rice on small plots of land, but refuse to do much of anything else. Seems like they only want to "stay home" daily e.g. not go outside the house/farm for work. Granted so many have little to no education and can not find many work opportunities.

Surprisingly however many have nice trucks and smartphones. There always seems to be enough baht for various ceremonies which include drinking, and card playing. This way of living seems to be circular e.g. no education/few opportunities/ and ALWAYS wanting to appear (FACE) richer/smarter/more skilled than they actually are.

I think very few governments here or "rich people" really care enough to implement change for the poor Thais so this circular life style will continue.

Members of my daughter-in-laws family (her brother and sister) fit this example. They keep buying vehicles, motorcycles, big TVs, continuously update their smartphones with very expensive models way beyond their means.

They have land and they have some education (both have bachelor degrees) and have held jobs in the past. Now they just sit at home in the North and regularly come to son's house and ask for money and continuously tell my son that he is stingy and unfair because he won't pay off their debts. Some years ago he did give both a handout for debts but it was used by both to buy expensive sedans.

My son has tried to get them to talk about starting a business (not farming) but one thing shines through every time - pure laziness.

When they come to son and D-I-L's house they tell my son he is not fair to his wife, she should have more help etc.

Their beliefs - son's father is farang, therefore rich, therefore son is rich and also not nice, just like his father. Never ends and they just get more lazy as time goes by.

Bludgers play on making you feel bad.No is a hard word to say sometimes but it sure feels good.Bludgers and parasites will bleed you dry eventually and who does that help.It does take long for word to get out about tightening of purse strings,these type of people are not your friends,family are worse.

I add to my comments. My son has told his wife's brother and sister many time they he saves all his money to ensure good longer-term education for his 3 children. His education savings plan is for all 3 to attend university in Singapore, if they want to.

When he says this his wife's brother and sister (both are healthy and strong, they both have education, both have no children and don't want children) immediately respond by attempting to totally change the subject.

When they are on the farm they pay for locals to do even the most minor and simple of activities. They just sit and watch and sleep and eat and complain.

[Thai at Heart]

It would be helpful to show a comparison of the costs for seed, fertiliser and pesticide in Thailand compared to other ASEAN countries and also compare yields. I understand that Thai yields are quite low (around 33rd in the world). With the current water crisis the situation is only going to get worse. and could lead to social unrest.

Ironically, the last thing they need is more rice.....

[KarenBravo]

unfortunately many thais do not understand living within your means, as said above "face" so much more important. My father died when I was pretty young, no govt hand outs so mum and 5 young kids had to take steps to survive. We didnt get to eat the best of meals, wear new clothes or get the latest gadgetry or cars, the 3 eldest(me included) did menial work and paper runs to earn extra money, mum worked 2 jobs, the last thing on our minds was what others thought of us. Thai farmers etc need to do the same things, forget face and try to improve their lot naturally, giving away your land to your son/daughter then complaining you have to lease land is a joke, yes these people are poor but they refuse to accept this fact and try to act as though they are not. Expecting govt handouts all the time isnt the answer, actually looking at improving what they do is, if they can afford to drink every night and gamble, have smart phones then they are living well beyond their means, time to forget about face and then maybe they will be able to get themselves out of debt.

The idiosyncrasies of 'face' is not only limited to the Thais but Asians in generally. One way to described face is the avoidance of embarrassment at all costs. The patronage culture in Thailand or subordinate not pointing out error made by a superior are all part of Asian culture. Got to do with integration and community harmony quite different from Western lesser strong sense of integration and a win-loss zero sum mentality. I am afraid that culture of face will not go away for a LONG LONG TIME.

Yet, reaction to losing face differs and that is the important thing.

If the Japanese lose face, they blame themselves and used to commit suicide.

The Thais never blame themselves. It's always someone else's fault and explosive violence can be the result.

[Ulic]

The law of unintended consequences from a poorly thought out rice pledging scheme comes to mind.

[trogers]

The law of unintended consequences from a poorly thought out rice pledging scheme comes to mind.

Unintended? Warnings were sounded and ignored!

[rubl]

"Along with increased debt, the rice-pledging scheme has apparently also impaired many farmers' ability to learn and be self-reliant."

RPPS, helping poor farmers stay stupid?

[callaway]

before planting time they were constructing a new road linking Lamduan and Surin. This was when Thailand sent all the Cambodians out. The head of the village made announcements over the speakers for anyone who wanted a job on the road gang for about 300+ baht a day. No one from the village took up the opportunity as it was easier to lay in the hammock under the tree and complain of not having money. I keep our home very clean with grass cut and edges cut and weeds pulled. Always very tidy. They complain they cannot have a house like ours but will not even go out of their hammock to even pick up rubbish and tidy up around their place. A clean house starts with getting rid of all the crap around the place and tidying up. Easier to lay down, drink lao kao and whinge. It makes me laugh at their antics. So much like kids.

[nickcar]

Well in my 18 years in Thailand i have yet to meet these lazy Thais who wont work for a living. Admittedly the first 12 or so years were spent in Bangkok with various visits up country But the last six years have been spent in the country and all the people I have met are hard-working. All the farmers I know rent land to plant rice and do anything else that can make a few pennies for them. Such as growing and selling vegtables, making charcoal etc.

I dont suggest these lazy people dont exist, just i doubt they are the majority. I agree though with all that is said about educating the farmers to learn new methods. I also note that the farmers seem to be the best off, with the factory workers always being short of money. Off course none of them understand about using and saving money, i find the most expensive expense they cant do without is playing the lotteries .

[BB24]

Well in my 18 years in Thailand i have yet to meet these lazy Thais who wont work for a living. Admittedly the first 12 or so years were spent in Bangkok with various visits up country But the last six years have been spent in the country and all the people I have met are hard-working. All the farmers I know rent land to plant rice and do anything else that can make a few pennies for them. Such as growing and selling vegtables, making charcoal etc.

I dont suggest these lazy people dont exist, just i doubt they are the majority. I agree though with all that is said about educating the farmers to learn new methods. I also note that the farmers seem to be the best off, with the factory workers always being short of money. Off course none of them understand about using and saving money, i find the most expensive expense they cant do without is playing the lotteries .

Ditto - all the Thais in my wifes family are hard working farming people.

Same for those of every Epat I know - both farming and business.

Methinks some comments are just BTEWs jumping on the bandwagon (urban myths?).

[trogers]

Well in my 18 years in Thailand i have yet to meet these lazy Thais who wont work for a living. Admittedly the first 12 or so years were spent in Bangkok with various visits up country But the last six years have been spent in the country and all the people I have met are hard-working. All the farmers I know rent land to plant rice and do anything else that can make a few pennies for them. Such as growing and selling vegtables, making charcoal etc.

I dont suggest these lazy people dont exist, just i doubt they are the majority. I agree though with all that is said about educating the farmers to learn new methods. I also note that the farmers seem to be the best off, with the factory workers always being short of money. Off course none of them understand about using and saving money, i find the most expensive expense they cant do without is playing the lotteries .

Poor people play the lottery or the lottery makes people poor. It's the chicken and egg scenario...