Smoke, Smog, Dust 2016-2017 Chiang Mai

[LolaS]

I am aware that there is not conscious what cause it and how.

[Berkshire]

Northern California in the USA--not known for massive air pollution--is getting a taste of what CM residents deal with every March/April.  Even worse actually...

 

[The worst hour so far was measured on Tuesday in Napa, Calif., with an Air Quality Index of 404 for small particulate matter — so high it's off the chart, as you can see below.]

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/12/557394636/this-weeks-air-quality-is-worst-on-record-for-san-francisco-bay-area

 

[canthai55]

On 10/11/2017 at 7:18 PM, LolaS said:

I am aware that there is not conscious what cause it and how.

I believe the correct word is consensus ...

Definition of consensus

1 a :general agreement :unanimity

[XGM]

On 10/11/2017 at 7:58 PM, canopy said:

The first step in solving any problem is awareness.

And the second is whining?

[Ruffian Dick]

On 10/13/2017 at 7:15 PM, Berkshire said:

Northern California in the USA--not known for massive air pollution--is getting a taste of what CM residents deal with every March/April.  Even worse actually...

 

[The worst hour so far was measured on Tuesday in Napa, Calif., with an Air Quality Index of 404 for small particulate matter — so high it's off the chart, as you can see below.]

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/12/557394636/this-weeks-air-quality-is-worst-on-record-for-san-francisco-bay-area

 

With all due respects, and thoughts and prayers for those affected, it's becoming my training for springs in Chiang Mai.

[LolaS]

On 10/14/2017 at 10:11 AM, canthai55 said:

I believe the correct word is consensus ...

Definition of consensus

1 a :general agreement :unanimity

awareness

[EnlightenedAtheist]

Adding to the body of evidence that poor air quality is unhealthy, here is this research about babies (foetuses) being exposed to poor air quality. 

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/10/19/study-pregnant-women-exposed-air-pollution-give-birth-babies-aged-cells/

 

Excerpt:

 

“Some previous research has linked exposure to traffic fumes and air pollution to higher odds of infertility as well as an increased risk of delivering underweight or premature babies. Prior research has also linked shorter telomeres to an increased risk of a variety of chronic health problems in adults, including heart disease and cancer. Telomeres shorten each time a cell divides. Once telomeres are too short, cell growth stops, which is why their length is considered a potential indicator of cellular aging and overall health.

[LolaS]

there is air pollution in Chiang Mai?

[mat999]

Looks like the smokey season may have begun? Or we have just has some very low clouds recently? I hope it is the latter. 

[wolfmuc]

On 10/24/2017 at 10:22 PM, mat999 said:

Looks like the smokey season may have begun? Or we have just has some very low clouds recently? I hope it is the latter. 

I'm afraid, but it 'looks like the smokey season may have already begun'.

Travelling from Phrae to Nan and back today there has been a lot of dust, mist, haze

or whatever in the air. I would say it's just smog. No health problem.

Mai pen rai.

 

[mrmillersr]

We are getting are getting PM 2.5 levels like you would expect in February or March.  Was going to wait until January to get out of here but I'm moving that up now.  Can't get out of here fast enough.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

This is very topical. 

 

Biomass Burning Releases Pollutants That Cause DNA Damage

 

 

Quote

 

When exposed to the biomass pollutants cell mortality was found to be around 33%, as compared to just 2% in the control cells. Surviving cells were found to have suffered DNA damage.

 

Afterwards, the researchers then tested the most abundant PAH amongst the pollutants released by biomass burning, retene — finding that retene on its own (at the same levels as this found in the air near biomass burnings) was able to induce DNA damage and cell death.

 

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/11/01/biomass-burning-releases-pollutants-cause-dna-damage/

 

I wonder what is the cell death rate when one smokes! If one could make a link

[EnlightenedAtheist]

This is very topical. 

 

Biomass Burning Releases Pollutants That Cause DNA Damage

 

 

Quote

 

When exposed to the biomass pollutants cell mortality was found to be around 33%, as compared to just 2% in the control cells. Surviving cells were found to have suffered DNA damage.

 

Afterwards, the researchers then tested the most abundant PAH amongst the pollutants released by biomass burning, retene — finding that retene on its own (at the same levels as this found in the air near biomass burnings) was able to induce DNA damage and cell death.

 

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/11/01/biomass-burning-releases-pollutants-cause-dna-damage/

 

I wonder what is the cell death rate when one smokes. If one could make a quantitative link comparing both, this could help with a simple visual. Smoking is not well perceived in Thailand.

 

In another somewhat related news, China has just found a way to grow higher yield rice in salt water (could feed 200 million Chinese): https://www.rt.com/business/407629-china-rice-grow-salt-water/) Maybe this would be a negative as it might force Thai farmers to grow more corn, but then this could be an opportunity to grow something that does not require slash-and-burning. We can dream.

[mat999]

Just bought this years 3M Filtrete to clear our apartment air a bit with the aircon. It has definitly begun as the mountain is no longer clearly visible and may not be until May. In case anyone is wondering they sell the Filtrete at Baan and Beyond and last year we got it Central at Kad Suan Kaew. 300 Baht, but possibly invaluable if it extends life.

Edited November 2, 2017 by mat999

[elephant45]

Kasetrsart University research and agricultural station today near Bhubing Palace north of Doi Suthep, adding their part to the burning.Yes it has already begun.

[JimmyJ]

So how long has it been without dangerous levels?

3 months?

[mrmillersr]

The best months have been June, July and August.  So far this month, PM 2.5 levels have been averaging around 35 which is not good and is higher than what we averaged last January. 

 

If this trend continues, it will indicate the problem is starting earlier and lasting longer than in the past.  Who knows how high the PM 2.5 levels will be this year during the peak periods but I for one will not be around to find out. 

 

Bottom line is the air pollution in Chiang Mai is a problem nearly year round and I believe it is suitable location to visit - not live.  Others will disagree but they are gambling with their health and that is something no one can afford to lose.

 

 

 

[balo]

Why don't you all move south ? 

[elephant45]

Its not very easy for older retired folks here to pack up and leave. I am quite discouraged to see this already happening.

[CNXBKKMAN]

As soon as the wind started blowing down from the North a week ago, the rainy season ended and the cool season began with noticeably lower temps and humidity. Visibility and air quality became worse immediately. The change was very fast which makes me think that local people didn't rush out and go on a burning spree. The land is still green, saturated and muddy. Rather this pollution is coming in with the wind from the countries to the north. I remember being in Guangxi province during October years ago. It was bone dry, the fields were yellow, crops had been harvested. We may being enjoying other countries smoke at the moment. Local "lanna smoke" wont properly kick in for a couple of months. 

[XGM]

Having moved from Bangkok to Chiang Mai a few months ago, I am interested in comparing the two. Right now I see 77 in CM and 132 in Bkk, I guess this is the situation most of the year, apart from the really bad periods of the burning season. Subjectively, now the air feels ok, it was a quite nasty a few days ago.

[canopy]

the change was very fast which makes me think that local people didn't rush out and go on a burning spree. 

 

This is precisely what triggers the fires. All it takes is about 2 dry days in a row and they rush out and start burning things. And the dryer it gets more and more burning goes on. I live on a mountain so it is easier to make this connection by looking at all the smoke tendrils. Almost none after recent rains. A few dry days in a row and bam!  Burning horizon to horizon. The land burning you are talking about will primarily happen next year after it's become super dry. That's when the air quality sinks to its worst. For now one of the major things burning is stalks from harvests and other things stacked up waiting for dry weather. Just look around now the air is filth and the locals are contributing to this; don't need to look at a web site to make this assessment.

 

[elephant45]

CNXBKKMAN, Canopy,

 

I agree to a point about the north wind, but early this morning it was so clear you could see for miles. But already at almost 9am it is nearing 85 and not so clear? Early morning burning, ummm makes sense to me.

I guess we will never know and they will never really care. It dries up they get out the lighter and start the burning.

[CNXBKKMAN]

People are burning garbage and piles of leaves all year around round so thats a constant. The sodden forests, rice fields and green growth at the side of the roads is not yet being burned locally only the regular piles of leaves and garbage like in the photo a few posts back. The countries above Thailand where this north wind is coming from may not have the same weather pattern as northern thailand. Yunnan province China may well be a month or two into dry dusty weather where farm land can be easily burned. So much smoke pollution coming so fast within hours of rainy season ending, on a north wind(at times quite strong) may support this. The local people are not burning any more than what they burned in October, September or August. 

       When the smokey season is in full swing its a relief when a wind kicks up as it normally blows some off the pollution away and the aqi improves. This recent steady wind from the north matched exactly with a worsening of the aqi, blowing the crap in? Just my opinon. 

[CNXBKKMAN]

This is the Chiang Mai forum. The wind has been blowing from the north for the past week. Cornfields burning in Korat wont be having any affect here with the current wind. No fields seem to be burning up here yet but if they are burning around Korat maybe Korats aqi is worse than CM? 

[CNXBKKMAN]

I cycle around Chiang Mai mainly on dirt roads where i can, 80 to 120 km, all rural and i have not seen any fields ablaze yet. Last week i saw rice harvesters on caterpillar tracks churning up the thick wet mud. I hiked on Doi suthep mountain a few days ago. Water is pouring off. Raging streams, water running down the trail, small waterfalls where none were before etc. I dont go out every day looking for burning fields but no other tvf memebers local to CM have posted about fields ablaze. 

[canopy]

On 11/4/2017 at 6:16 PM, XGM said:

Having moved from Bangkok to Chiang Mai a few months ago, I am interested in comparing the two. Right now I see 77 in CM and 132 in Bkk, I guess this is the situation most of the year,

 

First of all, it's a pretty sad, yet common state of affairs to compare the air in the countryside to the very biggest city. I don't think Bangkok air should ever be a benchmark for air quality in the north. Country air should be pristine, not polluted and people should accept no less. Today it says CM=109 BKK=91 so it is flip flopping already. And we haven't even scratched the surface of the smokey season yet. Keep in mind people living in Bangkok are typically shielded from the outside air. They live in air conditioned homes, go to air conditioned restaurants, use air conditioned transport, go to air conditioned shopping centers, schools, hospitals, and so on. The air outside is not much of a bother and this makes a big difference. In the north it's different. Much more likely for the population to be in open air 24 hours a day exposed to the full pollution all the time.

 

[XGM]

56 minutes ago, canopy said:

 

First of all, it's a pretty sad, yet common state of affairs to compare the air in the countryside to the very biggest city. I don't think Bangkok air should ever be a benchmark for air quality in the north. Country air should be pristine, not polluted and people should accept no less. Today it says CM=109 BKK=91 so it is flip flopping already. And we haven't even scratched the surface of the smokey season yet. Keep in mind people living in Bangkok are typically shielded from the outside air. They live in air conditioned homes, go to air conditioned restaurants, use air conditioned transport, go to air conditioned shopping centers, schools, hospitals, and so on. The air outside is not much of a bother and this makes a big difference. In the north it's different. Much more likely for the population to be in open air 24 hours a day exposed to the full pollution all the time.

 

It is perhaps sad however this is the comparison I'm making, as Bangkok and Chiang Mai are both living options for foreigners, even though they are obviously very different in many aspects.

I would love to have an air quality of a Swiss mountain-top however this unfortunately isn't an option. I could live in Phuket perhaps but I would need to be indoors all year round given the heat and humidity.

 

Having lived in BKK for quite some time, I find your statement that people are being shielded from the outside a bit exaggerated. You do have a point that people in Bangkok stay indoors more. This is a result of the bad conditions outside, mostly the climate I'd say has a role in that but the air quality as well.

 

I used to take motorcycle-taxi twice a day to the BTS and from the BTS to my office. The pollution on the road is nasty, even without getting stuck behind a bus that would fail any emission tests. If you take a tuktuk you breath the exhaust smoke directly. Taxis are better in sense that but many of them stink of human gases instead. When I walked from my office to the MRT I held my breath not to inhale the terrible sewage smells. Many outdoor food and nightlife outlets. The markets are, as you know, outside. Yes, shopping malls in Bangkok are air conditioned, so are Central Festival, Maya, Promenada etc. In Chiang Mai I commute by car, which is obviously air-conditioned. I actually spend less time commuting exposed to the air than I did in Bangkok.

Edited November 5, 2017 by XGM

[canthai55]

And where - pray tell - does the air inside your car come from ? 555

 

[XGM]

9 hours ago, canthai55 said:

And where - pray tell - does the air inside your car come from ? 555

 

Hmmm, probably from the same place the "protected air conditioned transport air" in Bangkok comes from? :-) Or perhaps those "protected from the outside" people in Bangkok have oxygen canisters attached to their cars, taxis, train, and they wear spacesuits when they ride their motorcycles.

Edited November 6, 2017 by XGM