US blocks UK Muslim family from boarding plane to Disneyland

[ClutchClark]

Nobody can comment on the rightness or wrongness until the full details are exposed, if ever.

It could be discrimination, or it could be a member of the family was flagged for some real reason.

If the latter, why stop the entire family?

f

You are on point concerning finding out the reason. In the creeping police state the reason will not be divulged as a matter of security. Welcome to security Trumping freedom. No charges, no trial or justice oversight....

That is correct. No charges ergo no trial.

They were simply denied entry.

Happens everyday in every International Airport in the World.

They were not American citizens, they have no right to enter simply because they bought tickets to Disneyland.

Next.

If you think that it's OK to deny people to travel to US because of their religion then maybe it's time to start denying travelers from US to enter EU, Australia and Asia just because they are from US as it's basically the same thing to deny anyone to travel/enter based on their religion!

What in the world are you talking about?

Where has anyone mentioned religion in your quoted text?

[manarak]

"There is a perception that such decisions are being made due to the faith or political activism of individuals," the council said.

nothing wrong with that if their faith is Salafist or their political activism in favor of an islamic republic !!!

it all depends on the circumstances.

saying that nobody should be discriminated because of his faith or political views is not realistic anymore.

[chuckd]

Nobody can comment on the rightness or wrongness until the full details are exposed, if ever.

It could be discrimination, or it could be a member of the family was flagged for some real reason.

If the latter, why stop the entire family?

f

You are on point concerning finding out the reason. In the creeping police state the reason will not be divulged as a matter of security. Welcome to security Trumping freedom. No charges, no trial or justice oversight....

That is correct. No charges ergo no trial.

They were simply denied entry.

Happens everyday in every International Airport in the World.

They were not American citizens, they have no right to enter simply because they bought tickets to Disneyland.

Next.

If you think that it's OK to deny people to travel to US because of their religion then maybe it's time to start denying travelers from US to enter EU, Australia and Asia just because they are from US as it's basically the same thing to deny anyone to travel/enter based on their religion!

Then go for it. You are obviously a Brit so why not petition your government to block entry to all Americans.

See how far that lunatic plan gets.

You may have some influence there. You have none in the US.

[aTomsLife]

Civilised countries, e.g. the UK, give a reason for such denials. This is called courtesy.

Nonsense. If UK Intelligence has an open file, ongoing investigation concerning a person being denied entry, mum's the word.

Perhaps there would be a lie in some circumstances. However, one does find (e.g. in a refusal to one Naeem Jeenah) formal refusal text such as

I have considered the circumstances of the application. I am not satisfied that your reasons for wanting to visit the United Kingdom are of a sufficiently compelling nature to override my belief that your exclusion from the United Kingdom is conducive to the public good on national security grounds. Therefore, I consider it undesirable to issue you an entry clearance and I am not prepared to exercise discretion in your favour. Your application is therefore refused under paragraph 320(19).

The above quote doesn't state any specific reasons, though, which is the point I was making. I'm sure the U.S. officials involved said something precisely along the lines as that you referenced above.

What, you think they got the silent treatment and shoved back on a plane?

Anyway, Happy Holidays to you and yours, mate.

[Kasset Tak]

If you think that it's OK to deny people to travel to US because of their religion then maybe it's time to start denying travelers from US to enter EU, Australia and Asia just because they are from US as it's basically the same thing to deny anyone to travel/enter based on their religion!

As go straw man arguments, yours is the size of the Empire State Building.

I don't understand your comment. I just stated that if you think it's right for US to ban Muslims from traveling there because they are Muslims then it would be OK for other countries can start banning US citizens from traveling there because they are US citizens. Thinking like that then Thailand should ban Christians from entering because Thailand is a Buddhist country and the people who are coming here from other countries and commits crimes are mostly Christians. All people are different, you can not just categorize people because of race, faith, gender or sexuality otherwise we are back in a rhetoric similar to 1930's Germany!

Anyway, I will probably never ever travel to US again as it's immigration system is just -up according to my own experiences:

* I have family (aunt, uncles and cousins) in Iowa and North Dakota, last time I went to see them I spent over 30 min at immigration in Chicago while they where asking me if I'm going for work in US over and over again (I'm Swedish). * Once I was offered a job as specialist in US but eventually I had to say no because I could not get a work visa/green card, I got cleared by FBI but not immigration... the job was at Skunk Works if you know what that is!? * My Thai friends (a family of 3 people) was denied tourist visas when they wanted to visit the sister of the man as she is living in Florida as a US citizen (by marriage). They own a pig farm (1400 pigs), about 400 rai other farm land, a pharmacy and a small resort. They where denied visas because they could only show 900,000 Baht in the bank when they applied for their visas and therefor they where deemed to be traveling to US for work!!!

[aTomsLife]

If you think that it's OK to deny people to travel to US because of their religion then maybe it's time to start denying travelers from US to enter EU, Australia and Asia just because they are from US as it's basically the same thing to deny anyone to travel/enter based on their religion!

As go straw man arguments, yours is the size of the Empire State Building.

I don't understand your comment. I just stated that if you think it's right for US to ban Muslims from traveling there because they are Muslims then it would be OK for other countries can start banning US citizens from traveling there because they are US citizens. Thinking like that then Thailand should ban Christians from entering because Thailand is a Buddhist country and the people who are coming here from other countries and commits crimes are mostly Christians. All people are different, you can not just categorize people because of race, faith, gender or sexuality otherwise we are back in a rhetoric similar to 1930's Germany!

Anyway, I will probably never ever travel to US again as it's immigration system is just -up according to my own experiences:

* I have family (aunt, uncles and cousins) in Iowa and North Dakota, last time I went to see them I spent over 30 min at immigration in Chicago while they where asking me if I'm going for work in US over and over again (I'm Swedish).

* Once I was offered a job as specialist in US but eventually I had to say no because I could not get a work visa/green card, I got cleared by FBI but not immigration... the job was at Skunk Works if you know what that is!?

* My Thai friends (a family of 3 people) was denied tourist visas when they wanted to visit the sister of the man as she is living in Florida as a US citizen (by marriage). They own a pig farm (1400 pigs), about 400 rai other farm land, a pharmacy and a small resort. They where denied visas because they could only show 900,000 Baht in the bank when they applied for their visas and therefor they where deemed to be traveling to US for work!!!

They weren't denied entry for simply being Muslim. Therein lies your straw man argument. As many, many others have already mentioned, thousands of Muslims are granted entrance to the U.S. every day, including the day in question.

Edited December 24, 2015 by aTomsLife

[Scott]

Many countries have and occasionally do retaliate on the issue of visas. It is usually because of someone important who is denied. The reaction of the US gov't is rather simple and that is that it is up to the individual country to accept or deny US citizens entry. Retaliation will not change the stance on the issue of visas.

I am positive that these people were not denied because of their religion. Most likely there was a security hit on someone in the group when the manifest was forwarded. The family had someone at their address who posted on facebook support for Al Qaeda. He doesn't deny that it happened, just that it wasn't them.

So, there is a group of people who want to travel to the US and have had a facebook posting with links to terrorist organizations:

• He dismissed Facebook account claiming links to Al Qaeda and Taliban
• It was set up by someone who has lived at the family's postal address

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3371472/David-Cameron-look-Muslim-family-banned-visiting-Disneyland-California-U-S-officials.html

[Nerone]

looks like that for children of islamic heritage, the only right they own is to be bombed. Merry Christmas Obama Bin Laden!

[tropo]

They can go to Disney in France. They love muslims over there!

Surely not as much as Muslims are loved in the UK.

Is this a shocker, or typical in the UK?

This Is What Happened When a White Man Spat on a Woman Wearing Hijab

http://news.yahoo.com/happened-white-man-spat-woman-162728265.html

[Pete Beale]

They can go to Disney in France. They love muslims over there!

Surely not as much as Muslims are loved in the UK.

Is this a shocker, or typical in the UK?

This Is What Happened When a White Man Spat on a Woman Wearing Hijab

http://news.yahoo.com/happened-white-man-spat-woman-162728265.html

Despicable thing to do, but when compared to how some muslim men treat white girls in the UK......

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6812604/Eleven-man-Asian-sex-gang-found-guilty-of-abusing-one-white-girl.html

[Singerman]

The UK press is now reporting these people had/have credible links to extremist ideology and to the world of Terrorism .

Maybe the Americans were right in refusing them ....................?

[simple1]

Many countries have and occasionally do retaliate on the issue of visas. It is usually because of someone important who is denied. The reaction of the US gov't is rather simple and that is that it is up to the individual country to accept or deny US citizens entry. Retaliation will not change the stance on the issue of visas.

I am positive that these people were not denied because of their religion. Most likely there was a security hit on someone in the group when the manifest was forwarded. The family had someone at their address who posted on facebook support for Al Qaeda. He doesn't deny that it happened, just that it wasn't them.

So, there is a group of people who want to travel to the US and have had a facebook posting with links to terrorist organizations:

• He dismissed Facebook account claiming links to Al Qaeda and Taliban
• It was set up by someone who has lived at the family's postal address

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3371472/David-Cameron-look-Muslim-family-banned-visiting-Disneyland-California-U-S-officials.html

Can't relocate right now, but the BBC mentioned one of the family had previously been denied entry to Israel so probably feed into Homeland Security concerns. The article also mentioned only one of the group was denied travel authority to the US, so have to assume the other senior decided the entire group was not to travel.

[Seastallion]

You are on point concerning finding out the reason. In the creeping police state the reason will not be divulged as a matter of security. Welcome to security Trumping freedom. No charges, no trial or justice oversight....

That is correct. No charges ergo no trial.

They were simply denied entry.

Happens everyday in every International Airport in the World.

They were not American citizens, they have no right to enter simply because they bought tickets to Disneyland.

Next.

I think everyone understands that there is no automatic right of entry. Duh.

The point is the secrecy as to why they were denied entry. If there is a reason, what is it? Why would the reason for denial be a secret?

Until we know why, the fact is how the OP portrays the situation, ie there does not seem to be a valid reason but it could have something to do with the "Muslimness" of the family.

Excuse me but the Muslimness of the family?

Do you have any idea how many Muslims come to the US every single day?

Your suggestion is completely disproved.

And, no, when it comes to risk of terror then nobody owes any foreigner an explanation of why a decision was made to deny them entry.

Traveler "A" was denied entry because his bank account has been flagged as providing monetary support to a Mosque which an on-going investigation says funnels money to IS. The investigation is ongoing. The money trail is still fresh. The traces on telephone calls is still active.

Providing Traveler "A" with the reason for their denied entry would tip said individual off that he and several co-conspirators are under observation.

You don't see how this would be problematic for the investigation?

Really?

You make a valid point with regard to security and security confidentiality.

[prestburypark]

Insh-allah

if they believe in an interventionist god, i guess he intervened. Good on yer, god.

[Ricardo]

You may have missed it, but we don't live in normal times. Normal times is when we can go on a plane without someone having a bomb in their shoes and hoping to kill us all.

Except that that was somebody else, and happened 14 years ago, I didn't miss it but I do think it's unrelated to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid

Normal times is now, there have been wars in the Middle East for centuries, probably always will be, and airline-security has been improved since 2001, I hope !

Edited December 24, 2015 by Ricardo

[thaibeachlovers]

Nobody can comment on the rightness or wrongness until the full details are exposed, if ever.

It could be discrimination, or it could be a member of the family was flagged for some real reason.

If the latter, why stop the entire family?

f

You are on point concerning finding out the reason. In the creeping police state the reason will not be divulged as a matter of security. Welcome to security Trumping freedom. No charges, no trial or justice oversight....

That is correct. No charges ergo no trial.

They were simply denied entry.

Happens everyday in every International Airport in the World.

They were not American citizens, they have no right to enter simply because they bought tickets to Disneyland.

Next.

If you think that it's OK to deny people to travel to US because of their religion then maybe it's time to start denying travelers from US to enter EU, Australia and Asia just because they are from US as it's basically the same thing to deny anyone to travel/enter based on their religion!

It WASN'T because of their religion. Where does ClutchClark say that it was?

[thaibeachlovers]

You may have missed it, but we don't live in normal times. Normal times is when we can go on a plane without someone having a bomb in their shoes and hoping to kill us all.

Except that that was somebody else, and happened 14 years ago, I didn't miss it but I do think it's unrelated to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid

Normal times is now, there have been wars in the Middle East for centuries, probably always will be, and airline-security has been improved since 2001, I hope !

Entirely related. If not for improved security they WOULD STILL be trying to blow up planes with shoe bombs. That's why suspicious people are denied entry to other countries.

[SgtRock]

Seems like the US is not the only one denying entry without explanation.

Quote

British Syrian-born woman has visa revoked without explanation before flight to Australia

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/dec/24/british-syrian-born-woman-has-visa-revoked-without-explanation-before-flight-to-Australia

I will check in later to see how the Aussie bashing is going

[JHolmesJr]

The UK press is now reporting these people had/have credible links to extremist ideology and to the world of Terrorism .

Maybe the Americans were right in refusing them ....................?

I saw the wife on bbc yesterday, milking this for all its worth…"I am sick and instead of spending 9,000 pounds on my treatment I decided to spend it to make the kids happy by sending them to disneyland….bla bla bla"…..what was really alarming was that the interviewer (a white woman) looked like she was totally sympathising, instead of staying neutral.

What the hell is wrong with the media, when they are so bloody left leaning and liberal? It's disgusting.

The UK has really messed up by letting these people into their country…they look like pakistanis…..what were they escaping from in pakistan, anyway? And what are they contributing to the UK's economy?

[simple1]

Seems like the US is not the only one denying entry without explanation.

Quote

British Syrian-born woman has visa revoked without explanation before flight to Australia

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/dec/24/british-syrian-born-woman-has-visa-revoked-without-explanation-before-flight-to-Australia

I will check in later to see how the Aussie bashing is going

The women in the link made an error in application for a visa. Originally applied, then thought she had identified a faster way of application, obviously overlooked cancelling her first application. Summary below...

When contacted, a spokesperson from the Department of Immigration and Border Protection said “the individual has made two separate applications for two different visas to enter Australia”. “In such circumstances the department needs to resolve the different visa applications,” the statement said. “The department is in contact with the individual applicant and is working to resolve the application.”

[Richard W]

The UK has really messed up by letting these people into their country…they look like pakistanis…..what were they escaping from in pakistan, anyway? And what are they contributing to the UK's economy?

The short answer in most cases is that they were escaping poverty, and that they provided flexible labour. The original immigrants were legal economic migrants. Children and spouses have joined them.

[SgtRock]

simple1, on 26 Dec 2015 - 06:45, said:

SgtRock, on 25 Dec 2015 - 07:52, said:

Seems like the US is not the only one denying entry without explanation.

QuoteQuote

British Syrian-born woman has visa revoked without explanation before flight to Australia

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/dec/24/british-syrian-born-woman-has-visa-revoked-without-explanation-before-flight-to-Australia

I will check in later to see how the Aussie bashing is going

The women in the link made an error in application for a visa. Originally applied, then thought she had identified a faster way of application, obviously overlooked cancelling her first application. Summary below...

When contacted, a spokesperson from the Department of Immigration and Border Protection said “the individual has made two separate applications for two different visas to enter Australia”. “In such circumstances the department needs to resolve the different visa applications,” the statement said. “The department is in contact with the individual applicant and is working to resolve the application.”

2 separate applications for 2 different visa would automatically raise red flags.

She <deleted!> up, application gets rejected and its all over the media. How bizarre.

It does highlight one thing. That there is no conspiracy against Muslims. It is all down to individuals and their individual actions.

[Steely Dan]

His Facebook profile showed evidence of support for Al-Qaeda, anyone who believes someone else added this to his profile well I have a bridge to sell them. It is at least a step in the right direction if US officials have actually started examining social media postings, had they done this before then 14 people in San Bernadino would still be alive.

[Ghostnigel]

It's none of Cameron's or anybody else's business who the United States denies entry to.

I hear Mecca is nice this time of year....it would get them away from all the hustle and bustle of the christmas that they seem to hate so much.

[Ghostnigel]

Nobody on here knows the situation, there is something we don't know about, for sure. They went to the media with the story, saying that the kids will miss out on Disneyland, hyping the story to the max, bringing kids' misery into the equation. How does anyone really know they were actually going to Disneyland? They said they were meeting 'extended' family in the US. I feel they pulled the racist card to get a reaction.
It could, and often is any race that could have been stopped, its just that muslims are the biggest threat, not the only threat, but the biggest threat to security on planes these days. If one of them had a red flag on them, it must have been for a reason, (maybe for on-going investigations) So why should Homeland Security reveal to the media anything that might jeapordize this?

All i know is, if i was refused entry, i would question myself, not the US, for the reasons.

[OMGImInPattaya]

The UK press is now reporting these people had/have credible links to extremist ideology and to the world of Terrorism .

Maybe the Americans were right in refusing them ....................?

Not suprising when you remember that 60% of British muslims are in favor of sharia law...IN BRITAIN!

[OMGImInPattaya]

The UK press is now reporting these people had/have credible links to extremist ideology and to the world of Terrorism .

Maybe the Americans were right in refusing them ....................?

I saw the wife on bbc yesterday, milking this for all its worth"I am sick and instead of spending 9,000 pounds on my treatment I decided to spend it to make the kids happy by sending them to disneyland.bla bla bla"..what was really alarming was that the interviewer (a white woman) looked like she was totally sympathising, instead of staying neutral.

What the hell is wrong with the media, when they are so bloody left leaning and liberal? It's disgusting.

The UK has really messed up by letting these people into their countrythey look like pakistanis..what were they escaping from in pakistan, anyway? And what are they contributing to the UK's economy?

As far as I'm concerned, the UK (and France) are basically muslim majority countries now and should be treated as such.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic. This thread is about the UK Muslim family denied entry to the US.

[i claudius]

Their address was flagged,because of posts for terrorists,pity they were allowed back into the UK

Edited December 26, 2015 by i claudius

[Wilsonandson]

Not all terrorists are Muslim. Thought I'd point that out, incase you all forgot.

Religion, race, colour and creed. Sh1t happens, it's just more widely reported these days due to the age of the internet. Chill, this sh1ts been going on for milleniums.