Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[TheCruncher]

https://www.change.org/p/david-cameron-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/u/14756758?tk=3w9kjluF-06ffxmV7RZgWHJrE2uwT_rpRPxqBAF8fxw&utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email

Email sent by anonymous, as in people who are scared to show their identity, not as in the international famed hackers organisation Anonymous.

And to answer the question why Andrew Drummonds site is blocked. It is because he is a fugitive convicted for UNtruths published on his website.

[TheCruncher]

Friends of Hannah and David must also be happy with the guilty verdict then. Those friends that would have excitedly discussed and planned their trips many months before September '14. The females came back minus their friend whose head had been smashed in. Not an everyday occurrence. Press reports stated 'friends said Hannah and David left the AC bar between 3 and 4am. No names in the press of who these friends were. For all we know the friends that made that statement may be non existent. Surely one friend would own up to stating that? Not exactly anything to be afraid of is it? There is a reason why we have heard nothing in the press regards any of the 'friends'. Not one of them have come forward to dispel the rumours that there was an altercation at the AC bar. Not one of them have come forward and said who was the last to see Hannah or David alive. Absolutely incredible and unbelievable! No statements requested by prosecution or defence in court from any of them? Why not? Last movements of the deceased etc etc. RTP said they took statements from the friends - were these read in court? And no CCTV from the AC bar only footage showing David entering the bar at the front. Pure speculation on the part of the police that Hannah and David left by the back door. Where are the bloody witnesses!!! Who saw what and why aren't you speaking up? Likely that drugs of some sort played a part in all this. Did all the friends simply stroll home to go to bed with no concern for their missing friends or where they up, wide awake, maybe off some of their faces and witnessed something they dare not speak of? I can only surmise that their attitude is two little Burmese nothings being sentenced to death is something they can easily live and is meaningless in comparison with losing their 'friends'.

You just answered most of your questions yourself.

The reason that no one has come forward, and no one was called to witness, is that it probably never happened and it was pure speculation and rumors from a certain facebook group picked up by members of this forum.

[taony]

https://www.change.org/p/david-cameron-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/u/14756758?tk=3w9kjluF-06ffxmV7RZgWHJrE2uwT_rpRPxqBAF8fxw&utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email

Email sent by anonymous, as in people who are scared to show their identity, not as in the international famed hackers organisation Anonymous.

And to answer the question why Andrew Drummonds site is blocked. It is because he is a fugitive convicted for UNtruths published on his website.

Whatever helps you sleep.

[Zeberdee]

There were the pictures from CCTV shown that the interested one was in his dormitory in Bangkok that night.

That morning I believe but I stand to be corrected.

yes stills showing him walking out of his residence the next morning at 9.15/30 (I forget which). This did not eliminate the possibility of him travelling back to Bangkok earlier that morning though which was logistically possible. Apparently there was also film of the apartment block showing he did not enter it that morning (via the front door anyway) but that was only shown to selected media organisations if I understood it correctly - which seems a bit odd. There was also his girlfriend at the time who apparently said she had been unable to contact him over the weekend.

How do they make a video of someone NOT entering? I guess they also have video then from me not entering that building.


Also strange that if he has been walking around the whole weekend on that very small island, that there is not a single picture or CCTV screen shot of him.

leaving but not entering, thus implying he was inside for a significant amount of time, but yes where is the footage of him actually entering the time before the footage of him leaving. good point

and yes TheCuncher, if there is no footage of you not entering and not leaving then are you still in there!?

Ah yes that footage of him leaving at 9am ish with the multicoloured date stamps, and the wooden chairs etc which were moved 2 months prior.

If he was in BKK all that night I find it hard to believe there is nobody who can vouch for him actually being there at 10pm 11pm etc of that night, an actual person in the flesh, not a few shoddy cctv images which can be 'altered'.

Or even phone/internet records placing him there that can be shown to the public, not just the RTP that just say so and that's that.

[kcirtapyelrah]

Does anyone know what Buddhism says about conspiring to frame two innocents for murders they didn't commit? And what about Buddhists who don't come forward to tell the truth?

For months and months I was convinced that someone would come forward and speak the truth no matter what, because their religion speaks about doing good and the laws of karma but it never happened. Strange.

So of 100's of people on Koh Tao who actually know what really happened nobody came forward with their story? And all out of fear? It's impossible to cover up a story of this magnitude on such a small island! So it's kind of logical that many people know the real story. There must even be farangs who live and work on Tao who know the truth, either working in the diving industry or owning businesses. That nobody sticks their neck out for anyone anymore is maybe part of the time we live in. Can't imagine someone who knows the truth would be quiet and let 2 boys be sent to jail all their lives or even killed for a crime they didn't commit. That's impossible

Time will reveal all.

Not in this case it won't.

Time will Tell.

[Zeberdee]

And the fb post from someone in his class that said he was absent, and turned up the next day with scratches on his neck?

Why wasn't that followed up or explained?

[jacky54]

And the fb post from someone in his class that said he was absent, and turned up the next day with scratches on his neck?

Why wasn't that followed up or explained?

Cos daddy rich and powerful of course

[TheCruncher]

There were the pictures from CCTV shown that the interested one was in his dormitory in Bangkok that night.

That morning I believe but I stand to be corrected.

yes stills showing him walking out of his residence the next morning at 9.15/30 (I forget which). This did not eliminate the possibility of him travelling back to Bangkok earlier that morning though which was logistically possible. Apparently there was also film of the apartment block showing he did not enter it that morning (via the front door anyway) but that was only shown to selected media organisations if I understood it correctly - which seems a bit odd. There was also his girlfriend at the time who apparently said she had been unable to contact him over the weekend.

How do they make a video of someone NOT entering? I guess they also have video then from me not entering that building.

Also strange that if he has been walking around the whole weekend on that very small island, that there is not a single picture or CCTV screen shot of him.

leaving but not entering, thus implying he was inside for a significant amount of time, but yes where is the footage of him actually entering the time before the footage of him leaving. good point

and yes TheCuncher, if there is no footage of you not entering and not leaving then are you still in there!?

Ah yes that footage of him leaving at 9am ish with the multicoloured date stamps, and the wooden chairs etc which were moved 2 months prior.

If he was in BKK all that night I find it hard to believe there is nobody who can vouch for him actually being there at 10pm 11pm etc of that night, an actual person in the flesh, not a few shoddy cctv images which can be 'altered'.

Or even phone/internet records placing him there that can be shown to the public, not just the RTP that just say so and that's that.

The multi colored date stamps is normal in CCTV footage, they witch automatic color depending on the background, but don't let facts get in the way of a conspiracy theory of course.

Regarding the fact that nobody can vouch for him if he actually was in Bangkok, so you assume he was in Koh Tao all that time.

So why is there nobody who can vouch for him being on Koh Tao, if he was a whole weekend on an island the size of a apron?

[TheCruncher]

And the fb post from someone in his class that said he was absent, and turned up the next day with scratches on his neck?

Why wasn't that followed up or explained?

Yes indeed very strange that the defense, consisting of the best lawyers money can buy, didn't follow up on that.

[Zeberdee]

The multi colored date stamps is normal in CCTV footage, they witch automatic color depending on the background, but don't let facts get in the way of a conspiracy theory of course

How convenient, easier to get away with a bit of 'doctoring'.

[NCFC]

Friends of Hannah and David must also be happy with the guilty verdict then. Those friends that would have excitedly discussed and planned their trips many months before September '14. The females came back minus their friend whose head had been smashed in. Not an everyday occurrence. Press reports stated 'friends said Hannah and David left the AC bar between 3 and 4am. No names in the press of who these friends were. For all we know the friends that made that statement may be non existent. Surely one friend would own up to stating that? Not exactly anything to be afraid of is it? There is a reason why we have heard nothing in the press regards any of the 'friends'. Not one of them have come forward to dispel the rumours that there was an altercation at the AC bar. Not one of them have come forward and said who was the last to see Hannah or David alive. Absolutely incredible and unbelievable! No statements requested by prosecution or defence in court from any of them? Why not? Last movements of the deceased etc etc. RTP said they took statements from the friends - were these read in court? And no CCTV from the AC bar only footage showing David entering the bar at the front. Pure speculation on the part of the police that Hannah and David left by the back door. Where are the bloody witnesses!!! Who saw what and why aren't you speaking up? Likely that drugs of some sort played a part in all this. Did all the friends simply stroll home to go to bed with no concern for their missing friends or where they up, wide awake, maybe off some of their faces and witnessed something they dare not speak of? I can only surmise that their attitude is two little Burmese nothings being sentenced to death is something they can easily live and is meaningless in comparison with losing their 'friends'.

You just answered most of your questions yourself.

The reason that no one has come forward, and no one was called to witness, is that it probably never happened and it was pure speculation and rumors from a certain facebook group picked up by members of this forum.

Indeed this is correct. Now we are seeing posts along the line "I seem to remember...XYZ" when in fact what they remember is an unsubstantiated rumour posted on this forum twelve months ago.

Initially I too, thought the bar owners must be implicated but in over one year not a single piece of evidence has come to light linking the bar owners and associates to the crime. That is, evidence that would stand up in court when presented by defence lawyers.

I could easily make up my own rumours. That Mon, the sharkman or any from that gang committed this crime then they would have got rid of the evidence. The bodies would have been taken out on a boat, weighted with stones and dumped overboard.

They would not have left the bodies to be discovered in their own resort. That would have been ruinous for business.

But there is no cctv or witnesses that prove the gang was out at the time of the murders.

The only cctv evidence shows the b2 buying alchohol sometime before the murders and one or two skinny kids running around in a panic after the murders.

Why did the defence team put up such a poor show? Because they knew the two Burmese were guilty.

[glenmohr]

I had very little knowledge or interest in this case prior to the verdict and sentencing on the 24th, but I have followed with interest here and through links that friends and colleagues have given me.

I am now convinced of their guilt and as a proponent of the death penalty, believe it should be carried out as soon as all avenue of appeal are used up.

Good for you.

I know Ali G and Lucky have their tickets to watch the executions live and in colour, how about you Stander?

[docshock13]

And the fb post from someone in his class that said he was absent, and turned up the next day with scratches on his neck?

Why wasn't that followed up or explained?

Yes indeed very strange that the defense, consisting of the best lawyers money can buy, didn't follow up on that.

I will stand corrected if I am wrong, but I understood the defense team was working pro bono.

[TheCruncher]

And the fb post from someone in his class that said he was absent, and turned up the next day with scratches on his neck?

Why wasn't that followed up or explained?

Yes indeed very strange that the defense, consisting of the best lawyers money can buy, didn't follow up on that.

I will stand corrected if I am wrong, but I understood the defense team was working pro bono.

Then where did all the donation go that went to Andy Hall and his organization? I doubt it was used for food for the B2.

[bannork]

I have a medical and a legal question I hope someone with knowledge in these areas can answer.

The inquest into Hannah's death from Norfolk was held back till after the trial is over, I believe the report will be issued in January.

Legal question- is this because the UK opposes the death penalty and thus will not send evidence that may result in execution being carried out?

Medical question- could an autopsy on Hannah's body performed in the UK been able to reveal traces of DNA in semen, several days/ weeks after the crime?

[glenmohr]

There is a lot of interest, hence why this case is still talked about.

You are witnesing something very evil and sinister.

This is a tradgedy for everyone involved and particularly the nation of Thailand.

Maybe in Thailand and Myanmar. But it's hardly on the scale of Paris, which generated genuine worldwide concern.

On Saturday Brewster it was lead story on Channel News Asia, Singapore TV, showing the protests across Myanmar and discussing the World wide reaction. In remained ahead of Syria, floods in UK and Yemen for the whole day.

[bunglebag]

And the fb post from someone in his class that said he was absent, and turned up the next day with scratches on his neck?

Why wasn't that followed up or explained?

Yes indeed very strange that the defense, consisting of the best lawyers money can buy, didn't follow up on that.

I think you'll find that Nomsod was not on trial. So it should have been the job of the RTP

[bunglebag]

yes stills showing him walking out of his residence the next morning at 9.15/30 (I forget which). This did not eliminate the possibility of him travelling back to Bangkok earlier that morning though which was logistically possible. Apparently there was also film of the apartment block showing he did not enter it that morning (via the front door anyway) but that was only shown to selected media organisations if I understood it correctly - which seems a bit odd. There was also his girlfriend at the time who apparently said she had been unable to contact him over the weekend.

How do they make a video of someone NOT entering? I guess they also have video then from me not entering that building.

Also strange that if he has been walking around the whole weekend on that very small island, that there is not a single picture or CCTV screen shot of him.

leaving but not entering, thus implying he was inside for a significant amount of time, but yes where is the footage of him actually entering the time before the footage of him leaving. good point

and yes TheCuncher, if there is no footage of you not entering and not leaving then are you still in there!?

It seems that you have bit of a problem to figure this out correctly, so I will lend you a helping hand.

If there IS a video of him NOT entering the building on a particular morning, as you wrote in your post, but there is a video of him exiting the building that particular morning, then there is a big chance that he entered earlier.

And no, if there is no footage of me not entering and not leaving then I'm not still in there, it means I've never been there.

Any further problems with understanding simple events, feel free to send me a PM.

Nope I have no problem. I was curious as to why the footage of him entering and staying in his room was not released, just a still of him leaving later which has 1. had its authenticity called into question by some and 2. does not rule him out anyway as he could have got from KT to Bangkok by that time anyway. Just thought it odd that if they had more footage why not release it like the still if it would get rid of all this speculation. Seems straage or do you not think so? If not why not

and the other bit was a joke but don't worry about it

[bunglebag]

And the fb post from someone in his class that said he was absent, and turned up the next day with scratches on his neck?

Why wasn't that followed up or explained?

Yes indeed very strange that the defense, consisting of the best lawyers money can buy, didn't follow up on that.

I will stand corrected if I am wrong, but I understood the defense team was working pro bono.

Then where did all the donation go that went to Andy Hall and his organization? I doubt it was used for food for the B2.

There were regular updates showing where the money was spent. I'm sure you can find them if you want, but you don't want to. I'm not wasting my time digging them up for you because that is what your aim is

[docshock13]

And the fb post from someone in his class that said he was absent, and turned up the next day with scratches on his neck?

Why wasn't that followed up or explained?

Yes indeed very strange that the defense, consisting of the best lawyers money can buy, didn't follow up on that.

I will stand corrected if I am wrong, but I understood the defense team was working pro bono.

Then where did all the donation go that went to Andy Hall and his organization? I doubt it was used for food for the B2.

I have no idea. That is a question perhaps better directed at the MWRN. I was just looking for some clarification on your statement. I will look it up later.

[bunglebag]

And the fb post from someone in his class that said he was absent, and turned up the next day with scratches on his neck?

Why wasn't that followed up or explained?

Yes indeed very strange that the defense, consisting of the best lawyers money can buy, didn't follow up on that.

I will stand corrected if I am wrong, but I understood the defense team was working pro bono.

Nope you are correct. I expect TheCruncher knows this too. he is just trying to waste people's time. I suggest he go back and read all the previous threads as all the answers to his questions so far are in there.

[HUH]

Yes indeed very strange that the defense, consisting of the best lawyers money can buy, didn't follow up on that.

I will stand corrected if I am wrong, but I understood the defense team was working pro bono.

Then where did all the donation go that went to Andy Hall and his organization? I doubt it was used for food for the B2.

They were working pro bono, including the advisers and experts such as Jane Taupin, if you want to find out where the funds were distributed then head to the funding page and look at the accounts, not hard really, or you can make up rumours...up to you

[TheCruncher]

How do they make a video of someone NOT entering? I guess they also have video then from me not entering that building.

Also strange that if he has been walking around the whole weekend on that very small island, that there is not a single picture or CCTV screen shot of him.

leaving but not entering, thus implying he was inside for a significant amount of time, but yes where is the footage of him actually entering the time before the footage of him leaving. good point

and yes TheCuncher, if there is no footage of you not entering and not leaving then are you still in there!?

It seems that you have bit of a problem to figure this out correctly, so I will lend you a helping hand.

If there IS a video of him NOT entering the building on a particular morning, as you wrote in your post, but there is a video of him exiting the building that particular morning, then there is a big chance that he entered earlier.

And no, if there is no footage of me not entering and not leaving then I'm not still in there, it means I've never been there.

Any further problems with understanding simple events, feel free to send me a PM.

Nope I have no problem. I was curious as to why the footage of him entering and staying in his room was not released, just a still of him leaving later which has 1. had its authenticity called into question by some and 2. does not rule him out anyway as he could have got from KT to Bangkok by that time anyway. Just thought it odd that if they had more footage why not release it like the still if it would get rid of all this speculation. Seems straage or do you not think so? If not why not

and the other bit was a joke but don't worry about it

You could also ask the question why there was no footage of him leaving the building before that Monday, at the day he traveled to Koh Tao, or do you think he also that day slipped out of the backdoor because he planned the murder?

Don't you think it is strange that there is no footage, or a single person that claims to have seen him, when he stayed on a island for several days? I'm sure everyone there knows how he looks, so they wouldn't forget.

[docshock13]

And the fb post from someone in his class that said he was absent, and turned up the next day with scratches on his neck?
Why wasn't that followed up or explained?

Yes indeed very strange that the defense, consisting of the best lawyers money can buy, didn't follow up on that.

I will stand corrected if I am wrong, but I understood the defense team was working pro bono.

Then where did all the donation go that went to Andy Hall and his organization? I doubt it was used for food for the B2.

I have no idea. That is a question perhaps better directed at the MWRN. I was just looking for some clarification on your statement. I will look it up later.

Never mind. Found it.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Forensic-team-to-testify-in-Koh-Tao-trial-30269277.html

[AleG]

< big snip >

Anyhow, At some point it was reported that Hannah had an argument in the bar with a "bar manager" as reported by an unnamed British witness. Some other interesting things here in the article linked. (can't recall if The Nation is allowed here, if not just delete the link please)

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/What-about-bar-manager-accused-of-harassing-victim-30246806.html

It was not 'reported' in The Nation. It was submitted as a non-corroborated OPINION piece as noted in the URL and the Article heading.

Hey, it's something someone said on the Internet, if has to be true...

In reality it is some guy making a dogs breakfast of the events surrounding Sean McAnna, this is the kind of unreliable, easily disproved rumor stew some people call "The Truth".

[TheCruncher]

Yes indeed very strange that the defense, consisting of the best lawyers money can buy, didn't follow up on that.

I will stand corrected if I am wrong, but I understood the defense team was working pro bono.

Then where did all the donation go that went to Andy Hall and his organization? I doubt it was used for food for the B2.

They were working pro bono, including the advisers and experts such as Jane Taupin, if you want to find out where the funds were distributed then head to the funding page and look at the accounts, not hard really, or you can make up rumours...up to you

If you are so well informed you could post a link to that fund page, because it is the least of my concerns, but maybe you could inform us if those lawyers, advisers and experts were highly qualified people or just a bunch of worthless people who wanted to work for free.

[glenmohr]

This story is NOT going to disappear, and I for one will NOT rest until the real perpetrators are brought to justice.

This story will disappear just as the story of the Canadian shot by the policeman in Pai disappeared, and just as the story about the murdered Brit girl in Chiang Mai disappeared. If this story had occurred in Pattaya nobody would have ever heard about it apart from perhaps a brief mention buried in the local press about a murder-suicide. A year from now nobody is going to remember and the reggae music and the sweet smell of ganja will continue to attract young tourists to the islands. Chaiyo!

Oddly enough Jodphur, folk have been saying exactly that for the last 12 months during which time the story has only got bigger. Remember this is Xmas holiday. There will be much more interest once people finish their holidays. Many of the Western World's most illustrious news organisations know only too well there is a story here.

[asiamaster]

Indeed this is correct. Now we are seeing posts along the line "I seem to remember...XYZ" when in fact what they remember is an unsubstantiated rumour posted on this forum twelve months ago.

Initially I too, thought the bar owners must be implicated but in over one year not a single piece of evidence has come to light linking the bar owners and associates to the crime. That is, evidence that would stand up in court when presented by defence lawyers.

I could easily make up my own rumours. That Mon, the sharkman or any from that gang committed this crime then they would have got rid of the evidence. The bodies would have been taken out on a boat, weighted with stones and dumped overboard.

They would not have left the bodies to be discovered in their own resort. That would have been ruinous for business.

But there is no cctv or witnesses that prove the gang was out at the time of the murders.

The only cctv evidence shows the b2 buying alchohol sometime before the murders and one or two skinny kids running around in a panic after the murders.

Why did the defence team put up such a poor show? Because they knew the two Burmese were guilty.

Spot on!

[TheCruncher]

And the fb post from someone in his class that said he was absent, and turned up the next day with scratches on his neck?

Why wasn't that followed up or explained?

Yes indeed very strange that the defense, consisting of the best lawyers money can buy, didn't follow up on that.

I will stand corrected if I am wrong, but I understood the defense team was working pro bono.

Nope you are correct. I expect TheCruncher knows this too. he is just trying to waste people's time. I suggest he go back and read all the previous threads as all the answers to his questions so far are in there.

The fact if they were paid or not doesn't make a difference, the fact is that they didn't use the evidence that you armchair detectives have been posting here for more than a year, and there is most probably a specific reason for that.

[davidstipek]

First... a definition:

From a free online dictionary....

Murder is the killing of another human being without justification or valid excuse, and it is especially the unlawful killing of another human being with malice aforethought.^[1][2][3] This state of mind may, depending upon the jurisdiction, distinguish murder from other forms of unlawful homicide, such as manslaughter.

Most societies, from ancient to modern, have considered murder a very serious crime deserving harsh punishment for purposes of retribution, deterrence, rehabilitation, or incapacitation. There are many reasons why murder has been criminalized, including its costs to society as well as being considered intrinsically wrong.^[4] For example, murder may be considered intrinsically wrong because it violates a right to life or is oppressive; murder may be costly to society by undermining law and order, by squandering potential accomplishments of the victims, by risking escalation of violence, or by spreading fear and grief.^[4]

In most countries, a person convicted of murder is typically given a long prison sentence, possibly a life sentence where permitted. In other countries, the death penalty may be imposed for such an act – though this practice is becoming less common.^[5]

^{Now lets back up....}

^{What if in real time this is what happen: Hannah Witheridge consented to have sex with one (or both of the ledged) killers, they then parted ways. This act was viewed by someone else or group so they killed Hannah, David witnessed this act of Murder and was then also murdered to dispose of any witnesses. How old is the semen they recovered from Hannah's body... you can tell age of stem cell. Is it Older then time of death? Is it much newer... maybe inserted in body to connect Zaw or Wai to Hannah, was it mixed with her fluids? or was it a stand a lone substance. Which would mean her body was flushed to remove every trace of anything else that was present. It would be very unusual if Male fluids resulting from the act of Intercourse were not mixed with the female fluids! Very... Extremely Odd! Is it newer then time of death? Was sex act not performed before or after her death? The fact that DNA was found in her body does not in this case lead us to believe the male partner was the Murderer! Was David Gay? Was his stomach and body cavities searched for traces of foreign DNA? Remember this Is Thailand anything is possible at this stage here....}

^{The fact that the Hoe was determined to be weapon used in murder, and the explicit fact that neither Zaw Lin Wai Phyo's DNA was found on it should have been a Red Flag! Sure there could have been intercourse that evening... But this is in no way a lead to say they are the Murderers! Who's DNA was Found on Hoe... it was never disclosed?}

^{But... Suppose... (at this point this is the only thing the courts found them guilty and charged the pair with Murder)}

^{Suppose Hannah was approached earlier by someone else, who wanted to have sex with her and she rebutted. This person or persons witnessed her have commissioned the act with either Zaw or Wai and became enraged! Enraged enough to Murder her after the Boys left.... Then David as he returned and witness the crime being committed....}

^{There is nothing to tie Zaw or Wai to Hannah except a sex act was completed... this is not Murder! There were no Bruising in the Vaginal area concurrent with rape... No display she was being restrained in anyway... Intercourse is not a crime unless committed against the will of another. Certainly cannot be compared at same level with Murder!}

^{The weapon (The Hoe) is connected to someone else, not the Boy's... QUESTION... WHO???}

Edited December 28, 2015 by davidstipek