Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[TheLobster]

But asking me if i would have recognised Nomsod my answer would be: yes of course he had a limp wrist

This subject is so so funny, <deleted> hilarious in fact, I see your point.

[TheLobster]

^ Nope, AleG. Your 'disprove' was disproven by me. I will repeat: if Nomsod was involved, as many believe, he hid from police for ten (that's 10 for those struggling with English) days from the date of the murder until he turned up with a new haircut and the family lawyer.

By your flawed logic Wei Phyo and Zaw Lin are even more guilty than him because they hid from the police for 17 days.

You are twisting yourselves into pretzels trying to justify your beliefs.

Hid from police and then fled the island by boat.

Vice versa?

[TheLobster]

Evidence that Wei Phyo and Zaw Lin murdered those two people: enough to reach a guilty verdict as explained in the court report.

There is no evidence of murder by the accused B2 that I am aware of, please enlighten me.

[TheLobster]

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Ian Yarwood‏@IanYarwood_Law

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Ian Yarwood‏@IanYarwood_Law

KOH TAO MURDERS: The outcome of the trial was a terrible setback 4 Zaw Lin & Wai Phyo. UNEXPLAINED DEFENCE EVIDENCE

That pretty much supports the thoughts of most people here, I notice that certain people didn't have much to say on Ian Yarwoods comments, of course he is a practising Solicitor, maybe it should have been him in the stand for the defence

I appreciate the efforts from Mr. Yarwood but like most people he doesn't understand that you can be certified to ISO 17025 but that doesn't mean anything unless the relevant test (The specified Forensic DNA Analysis) is within the scope of the certification of the Laboratory.

[IslandLover]

KunMatt, on 05 Jan 2016 - 18:14, said:

IslandLover, on 05 Jan 2016 - 17:27, said:

StealthEnergiser, on 05 Jan 2016 - 09:57, said:

StealthEnergiser, on 05 Jan 2016 - 09:57, said:

Anonymous Hacks Police Sites to Campaign for ‘Justice’ in Koh Tao Murders

BANGKOK — Hacker collective group Anonymous last night claimed responsibility for taking down at least 14 police websites in Thailand, in a campaign for “justice” for the Koh Tao murder case.

The affected websites include those of the Bangkok Metropolitan Police Bureau, the General Staff Division of Royal Thai Police and regional police stations. The sites appeared to be taken down on Monday and some of them are not yet back online at the time of writing.

The attack followed an announcement posted by Anonymous on Sunday, claiming that police used the two Myanmar migrant workers as ‘scapegoats’ in the murders of two British backpackers on Tao island murder in September 2014. The hacker group said the case highlighted the Thai police’s lack of skill and efficiency to investigate serious crimes.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1451976348

Oh deary me. Well, if Anonymous can take down the websites of ISIS/Daesh, I guess they can do anything . The story's in the BKK Post now.

Fantastic. It's also on the BBC news. It's very good that this is not just going to disappear and international attention is still on the corruption of the case.

Good old Anonymous, I forgive them for taking Playstion Network offline for a month in 2011 now.

It's also on the BBC news

Link, please?

[NCFC]

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Ian Yarwood‏@IanYarwood_Law

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KOH TAO MURDERS: The outcome of the trial was a terrible setback 4 Zaw Lin & Wai Phyo. UNEXPLAINED DEFENCE EVIDENCE

That pretty much supports the thoughts of most people here, I notice that certain people didn't have much to say on Ian Yarwoods comments, of course he is a practising Solicitor, maybe it should have been him in the stand for the defence

I appreciate the efforts from Mr. Yarwood but like most people he doesn't understand that you can be certified to ISO 17025 but that doesn't mean anything unless the relevant test (The specified Forensic DNA Analysis) is within the scope of the certification of the Laboratory.

Did you read the letter? I think he understands very well.

[TheLobster]

I'm open to anything that can be substantiated with credible evidence, evidence that other people were involved in the murders: 0

Evidence that Wei Phyo and Zaw Lin murdered those two people: enough to reach a guilty verdict as explained in the court report.

Blond hair

Dna on the right shoe

Dna on the murder weapon

Police statement Oct 29 2014

"If the DNA results turn out to match with the samples taken from the crime scene, Mr Warot will become an accomplice. If the DNA doesn't match, then society must give justice to Mr Warot's family too," the national police chief said - See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murder-suspects-offered-2nd-dna-tests-49403.php#sthash.NBZ7xOUh.dpuf

On one hand wishful thinking that those things would produce a match with Nomsod, even though he was proven not to be on the island at that time... on the other hand evidence that was subjected to scrutiny during a trial that has proven the B2 did it.

Tough choice.

Seriously, it's nice down here on Earth. A bit complicated some times but we get by just fine.

Again misdirection it seems, there is no proof at all given the time of the murders even if the CCTV in the morning in Bangkok is to be believed.

[KunMatt]

KunMatt, on 05 Jan 2016 - 18:14, said:

IslandLover, on 05 Jan 2016 - 17:27, said:

StealthEnergiser, on 05 Jan 2016 - 09:57, said:

StealthEnergiser, on 05 Jan 2016 - 09:57, said:

Anonymous Hacks Police Sites to Campaign for ‘Justice’ in Koh Tao Murders

BANGKOK — Hacker collective group Anonymous last night claimed responsibility for taking down at least 14 police websites in Thailand, in a campaign for “justice” for the Koh Tao murder case.

The affected websites include those of the Bangkok Metropolitan Police Bureau, the General Staff Division of Royal Thai Police and regional police stations. The sites appeared to be taken down on Monday and some of them are not yet back online at the time of writing.

The attack followed an announcement posted by Anonymous on Sunday, claiming that police used the two Myanmar migrant workers as ‘scapegoats’ in the murders of two British backpackers on Tao island murder in September 2014. The hacker group said the case highlighted the Thai police’s lack of skill and efficiency to investigate serious crimes.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1451976348

Oh deary me. Well, if Anonymous can take down the websites of ISIS/Daesh, I guess they can do anything . The story's in the BKK Post now.

Fantastic. It's also on the BBC news. It's very good that this is not just going to disappear and international attention is still on the corruption of the case.

Good old Anonymous, I forgive them for taking Playstion Network offline for a month in 2011 now.

It's also on the BBC news

Link, please?

Sorry, my mistake. I saw it on my Facebook wall and thought it was from the BBC but it was actually Skynews.

http://news.sky.com/story/1617160/uk-backpacker-murders-police-websites-hacked

[TheLobster]

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Ian Yarwood‏@IanYarwood_Law

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Ian Yarwood‏@IanYarwood_Law

KOH TAO MURDERS: The outcome of the trial was a terrible setback 4 Zaw Lin & Wai Phyo. UNEXPLAINED DEFENCE EVIDENCE

That pretty much supports the thoughts of most people here, I notice that certain people didn't have much to say on Ian Yarwoods comments, of course he is a practising Solicitor, maybe it should have been him in the stand for the defence

Ah yes, the supposed scrappy DNA summary, handwritten and crossed out documents that prove what a sham it all was. Why they didn't even follow the ISO17035 standard!

Well, what does that standard say?

"4.13.2.3 When mistakes occur in records, each mistake shall be crossed out, not erased, made illegible or deleted, and the correct value entered alongside."

4.11.2 Cause analysis The procedure for corrective action shall start with an investigation to determine the root cause(s) of the problem. NOTE Cause analysis is the key and sometimes the most difficult part in the corrective action procedure. Often the root cause is not obvious and thus a careful analysis of all potential causes of the problem is required. Potential causes could include customer requirements, the samples, sample specifications, methods and procedures, staff skills and training, consumables, or equipment and its calibration. 4.11.3 Selection and implementation of corrective actions Where corrective action is needed, the laboratory shall identify potential corrective actions. It shall select and implement the action(s) most likely to eliminate the problem and to prevent recurrence. Corrective actions shall be to a degree appropriate to the magnitude and the risk of the problem. The laboratory shall document and implement any required changes resulting from corrective action investigations

I really detest 'google' experts on both sides of this. Corrections on records are not the same as root cause analysis.

[TheLobster]

The self-replacement head investigator, after arranging things to please the headman (and headman's people), then miraculously was able to purchase $12 million in stocks at Wattana Capital investment firm.

Appreciate if you can substantiate this, I'll be happy to pass the information on.

[taony]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/hackers-attack-thai/2400984.html

[TheLobster]

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Ian Yarwood‏@IanYarwood_Law

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Follow Ian Yarwood‏@IanYarwood_Law

KOH TAO MURDERS: The outcome of the trial was a terrible setback 4 Zaw Lin & Wai Phyo. UNEXPLAINED DEFENCE EVIDENCE

That pretty much supports the thoughts of most people here, I notice that certain people didn't have much to say on Ian Yarwoods comments, of course he is a practising Solicitor, maybe it should have been him in the stand for the defence

I appreciate the efforts from Mr. Yarwood but like most people he doesn't understand that you can be certified to ISO 17025 but that doesn't mean anything unless the relevant test (The specified Forensic DNA Analysis) is within the scope of the certification of the Laboratory.

Did you read the letter? I think he understands very well.

Yes I have read the letter, he doesn't understand that you can be certified to ISO 17025 but that doesn't mean anything unless the relevant test (The specified Forensic DNA Analysis) is within the scope of the certification of the Laboratory.

[StealthEnergiser]

Australian scientist Jane Taupin questions Koh Tao death penalty evidence

Myanmar workers Win Zaw Htun, right, and Zaw Lin, left, both 22, escorted by officials after they were convicted in December last year of the murder Hannah Witheridge and David Miller. Photo: APBangkok:

An Australian forensic scientist has questioned key DNA evidence that led to two migrant workers being sentenced to death for the gruesome murders of two British backpackers on an idyllic Thai island.

Melbourne-based Jane Taupin says documents detailing how Thai investigators matched DNA from Myanmar workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun to the victims were not provided to a Thai court, in contravention of international DNA analysis and reporting standards.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/australian-scientist-jane-taupin-questions-koh-tao-death-penalty-evidence-20160106-gm05af.html#ixzz3wQQz8eqQ

Edited January 6, 2016 by StealthEnergiser

[StealthEnergiser]

from the above article

Melbourne-based Jane Taupin says documents detailing how Thai investigators matched DNA from Myanmar workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun to the victims were not provided to a Thai court, in contravention of international DNA analysis and reporting standards.

She also points out that DNA matching, a complex procedure requiring meticulous care, can only be determined on the basis of statistical probability in the population and none was presented to the court.

n a review of the DNA evidence obtained by Fairfax Media, Ms Taupin said no documents detailing the collection, movement, handling and chain of custody of DNA samples were provided to the court which is required under United States and United Kingdom codes of practice.

"The scientific records were not provided for review (for whatever reason) and thus as a scientist I could not perform a scientific review, or determine whether these records accorded with the principles of the standard," she said.

Ms Taupin said case file notes from the Thai police forensic laboratory should have been produced that showed a continuity of exhibits and the rationale for any scientific testing.

"Without these, any scientific review is limited and thus itself does not achieve a proper standard," she said

Ms Taupin stressed her comments were not criticism of the court but a review of the DNA evidence that defence lawyers say will form the basis of an appeal.

Andy Hall, an advocate for migrants who advised defence lawyers in the case, said the defence requested additional DNA-related documents from the prosecution but they were not provided.

"I can confirm there were no documents in the case file that explained methods of DNA testing or any assumptions from the police side or explanation of results in detail," Mr Hall said.

"There were also no probability statistics provided for matches of DNA and nor was there any documents at court specifying evidence to support the substance/biological nature of the DNA profile," he said.

Mr Hall said the prosecution referred to DNA coming from sperm, saliva and skin but provided no evidence to back up the assertions.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/australian-scientist-jane-taupin-questions-koh-tao-death-penalty-evidence-20160106-gm05af.html

Edited January 6, 2016 by StealthEnergiser

[DM07]

^ Nope, AleG. Your 'disprove' was disproven by me. I will repeat: if Nomsod was involved, as many believe, he hid from police for ten (that's 10 for those struggling with English) days from the date of the murder until he turned up with a new haircut and the family lawyer.

By your flawed logic Wei Phyo and Zaw Lin are even more guilty than him because they hid from the police for 17 days.

You are twisting yourselves into pretzels trying to justify your beliefs.

...ahm...no they didn't!

Unless to you "going on with ones life" is the same as "hiding from the police"!

You see no difference between giving DNA- samples, going to work every morning, staying around on the island and completely disappearing from the scene for a full 10 days?

Hot is cold, blue is green?

[stephenterry]

DNA trumps everything will come back to haunt the authorities. But it's critical for the defence appeal to provide a dummys guide which explains why the DNA evidence was not acceptable because judges don't understand.

[StealthEnergiser]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

SMH Exclusive: Australian scientist Jane Taupin questions Koh Tao death penalty forensic DNA evidence http://m.smh.com.au/world/australian-scientist-jane-taupin-questions-koh-tao-death-penalty-evidence-20160106-gm05af.html … via smh

[somo]

I don't have time to read everything here but it seems to me that no DNA evidence at all was produced only asserted. Yet it forms the core of the prosecutions case.

Does that about sum things up?

[Eirene]

You have to love the sense of humour!!

[AleG]

I don't have time to read everything here but it seems to me that no DNA evidence at all was produced only asserted. Yet it forms the core of the prosecutions case.

Does that about sum things up?

No, although there's a very strong propaganda effort to make it look that way.

You can read a summary of the court judgement following this link: Judgement of the Koh Samui Provincial Court on the Koh Tao Murder Case

The full report will be released, later... hopefully.

Edited January 6, 2016 by AleG

[balo]

I don't have time to read everything here but it seems to me that no DNA evidence at all was produced only asserted. Yet it forms the core of the prosecutions case.

Does that about sum things up?

Yet David Millers family was pleased with the sentence and told media that justice had been served. But they were in the court so maybe they saw something the rest of us didn't ? Edited January 6, 2016 by balo

[Aj Mick]

I don't have time to read everything here but it seems to me that no DNA evidence at all was produced only asserted. Yet it forms the core of the prosecutions case.

Does that about sum things up?

No, although there's a very strong propaganda effort to make it look that way.

You can read a summary of the court judgement following this link: Judgement of the Koh Samui Provincial Court on the Koh Tao Murder Case

The full report will be released, later... hopefully.

Yeah, yeah, seen that already.

A page to outline the charges.

Nearly 2 pages of the supposed rape in somewhat salacious detail

A bit about the murders.

Defence dismissed as irrelevant in a few lines, without any discussion.

And a page covering the verdict and sentence.

Hardly comprehensive, or showing any real consideration by the judges…… conviction is based on accepting the story the RTP dreamt up.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Aj Mick

[MrTee]

A write up on Jane Taupin & the "evidence"

http://www.smh.com.au/world/australian-scientist-jane-taupin-questions-koh-tao-death-penalty-evidence-20160106-gm05af.html

[AleG]

I don't have time to read everything here but it seems to me that no DNA evidence at all was produced only asserted. Yet it forms the core of the prosecutions case.

Does that about sum things up?

No, although there's a very strong propaganda effort to make it look that way.

You can read a summary of the court judgement following this link: Judgement of the Koh Samui Provincial Court on the Koh Tao Murder Case

The full report will be released, later... hopefully.

Yeah, yeah, seen that already.

A page to outline the charges.

Nearly 2 pages of the supposed rape in somewhat salacious detail

A bit about the murders.

Defence dismissed as irrelevant in a few lines, without any discussion.

And a page covering the verdict and sentence.

Hardly comprehensive, or showing any real consideration by the judges…… conviction is based on accepting the story the RTP dreamt up.

Do you understand what a summary is? Did you miss what I wrote that about the full report?

You complain about the summary being too short while you don't even know that the full judgement report is 63 pages long, you are criticizing the judges on false grounds.

[StealthEnergiser]

Edited January 6, 2016 by StealthEnergiser

[taony]

another article today.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/anonymous-hacks-thai-police-sites-over-burmese-jailings-for-british-backpacker-murders

[fayou]

A masked vigilante yesterday stood up in a swell of protesters and said he has evidence that can prove the innocence of two Myanmar men sentenced to death in Thailand. http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/18341-masked-man-at-koh-tao-rally-demands-meet-with-interpol.html

[MrTee]

Someone kindly posted previously about the DNA findings in response to my question about methods, data, analysis - not really answering my question, but interesting all the same.

STR vWA analysis: DNA from rectum of Hannah Witheridge

16 matching loci to Zaw Lin (Zoren) & 16 matching loci to Wai Phyo (Win)

STR vWA analysis: DNA from vagina of Hannah Witheridge

16 matching loci to Wai Phyo (Win)

STR D2S1338 analysis: DNA from right nipple of Hannah Witheridge

Positive match to Wai Phyo (Win), loci 20 & 25 missing

16 Matching loci on only the vWA Core Locus .. probability of 0.21 - that is just over one in five. 21 out of 100 people.

really.. not the whole geonome? to have a statistically meaningful identification you need to match on 13 locus (US)

Completely meaningless when there is zero documentation on how the samples were processed.. I simply do not believe that the DNA found on Hannah was correctly processed.

If the Samples were correctly processed then simple response is PROVE IT!

It is not enough just say there are 16 matches on a single locus. its is meaningless. Show you methods and your working out. Science 101!

PS do not shoot the messenger - personally I was grateful to STE for posting this information

Edited January 6, 2016 by MrTee

[StealthEnergiser]

A masked vigilante yesterday stood up in a swell of protesters and said he has evidence that can prove the innocence of two Myanmar men sentenced to death in Thailand. http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/18341-masked-man-at-koh-tao-rally-demands-meet-with-interpol.html

The man claimed to be a migrant worker recently returned from Thailand who was near the scene of the crime at the time of the murders.

“I can only say what I know about the Koh Tao case to Interpol without Thai police intervention due to fears for the safety and security of my friends and the other workers in Koh Tao,” said the man, who wore a cloth to obscure his face. “I don’t believe the Thai police. I know about the relationship between police and gangs over there.”

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/18341-masked-man-at-koh-tao-rally-demands-meet-with-interpol.html

[taony]

Pour it on!!