Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[StealthEnergiser]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo held under tight security/challenging situation. Shackled/detained in cell, both restraint measures applied 24 hours a day.

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Understand shackles four months &24/7 cell detention one month. Guys even eat food in the cell. 61 high security prisoners in cell at night

Boring!!

It's not hard tell what group your in Lucy

[MorristheRunt]

I don't think Mr Roti will be returning to downtown Myanmar anytime soon.

[webfact]

RELATED TOPIC:

No review of Koh Tao case, says Prawit



BANGKOK: -- Thailand won't review the Koh Tao murder case as it has passed the investigation process and now entered the judicial procedures.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/882159-no-review-of-koh-tao-case-says-prawit/

[TheCruncher]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo held under tight security/challenging situation. Shackled/detained in cell, both restraint measures applied 24 hours a day.

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Understand shackles four months &24/7 cell detention one month. Guys even eat food in the cell. 61 high security prisoners in cell at night

Boring!!

It's not hard tell what group your in Lucy

survey.jpg

Voting in a poll isn't a crime, is it?

Raping and murdering people is though.

[smedly]

So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?!

Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?!

Why exactly, would that be so?

Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!).

So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up".

We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts!

All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?!

On what planet does that make ANY sense?

If the semen found inside Hannah's body was that of the B2 then that trumps EVERYTHING else. Nothing else matters, unless you think that they raped Hannah and then somebody else murdered them, which wouldn't actually make that much sense!!

again your making misleading statements

you are constantly making a statement that there was semen found - there has been no evidence of that produced let alone having such evidence made available for independent retest and I am talking about "ORIGINAL SAMPLES"

Like I have said many times now, would it not be in the best interest of the police and prosecution "if this evidence does indeed exist" to have it retested by the CIFS so as to remove any doubt that people have, and I stress again "THIS CAN ONLY BE ACCOMPLISHED USING ORIGINAL SAMPLES" the police chief says on record that they exist - so why not ?

my own thoughts are that no such evidence exists or ever existed - I would like to be proven wrong - I honestly would

[MorristheRunt]

I would think "opponents" of the present regime in Thailand may be taking a very keen interest in the verdict.

[lucky11]

Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted!

The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this?

They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!!

I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial.

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

Or put a flannel over your face and pour gasoline on your head for hours on end whilst letting you listen to the sound of someone playing with a lighter...

Oh C'mon!! it has gone well beyond laughable now and it doesn't matter about any of this - it is a non subject regards this case as the confessions were not used.

[DJVillain]

So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?!

Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?!

Why exactly, would that be so?

Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!).

So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up".

We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts!

All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?!

On what planet does that make ANY sense?

If the semen found inside Hannah's body was that of the B2 then that trumps EVERYTHING else. Nothing else matters, unless you think that they raped Hannah and then somebody else murdered them, which wouldn't actually make that much sense!!

Despite the argument put forth by some defenders of the Burmese that the presence of their semen on the victim's body does not prove murder, I tend to believe that it would go a long way towards convincing most reasonable folks of their guilt. The problem is that, as many have already pointed out, there has been no CREDIBLE presentation by the prosecutors of ANY evidence,

other than what amounts to a weaker version of "the dog ate my homework" by the RTP.

It was hardly what any self respecting court anywhere in the world could call "rock-solid DNA evidence."

Apparently, rock solid enough!!

Ok Lucky

Tell you what... Give me a sample of the semen from the body and I can do a DNA test on it...

Then give me a sample of your sperm, and I will match that with the DNA from the body flawlessly...

How you ask?

Why my good man, its very simple... I switch the labels and tell everyone who is involved and that may have a conscience to shut their mouths 'or else' because its 'just some person called Lucky' and not a rich and powerful gangsters son...

DJVillain. You watch too much telly...have a break, think a little more about what you just said. Samples are always separated and one, at least, can be independently tested. Otherwise, don't give up your day job...

'Samples are always...' - When? Where? In a western country with a jury? Where people are innocent until proven guilty? Where corruption isn't so blatant?

'can be independently tested' - Yes... Can be... but were they? and by an organisation and/or agency that would provide 100% accurate data that didn't favour the party with the most face to lose/most money?

[DM07]

Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted!

The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this?

They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!!

I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial.

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

Ooooooh, you are such a tough guy!

And the B2 are such chicken...oh wait...but they are stonecold killers?

Your problem is, that you are such a mean, ignorant Troll, that you forget some facts!

Here is one: YOU WERE NOT TORTURED!

Get it?

I bet, if you would be dragged into a safe- house, had a plastic bag over your head, you would sing the Marseillaise backwards!

[smedly]

it doesn't matter if physical injury was evident or not - it is a stupid and pointless argument, there are many ways to torture people without leaving a mark and physical injuries can be self inflicted

what is important here is that they did not get legal council when they were detained, then it is impossible to say who is telling the truth about torture or so called confessions, if they had been granted proper legal representation then none of this discussion would be taking place

The fact is nobody knows what went on during the questioning, none of them can be trusted to tell the truth so any results from such a process are basically invalid

Like banging my head on a brick wall!!

need some help, many here would gladly assist

[lucky11]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo held under tight security/challenging situation. Shackled/detained in cell, both restraint measures applied 24 hours a day.

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Understand shackles four months &24/7 cell detention one month. Guys even eat food in the cell. 61 high security prisoners in cell at night

Boring!!

It's not hard tell what group your in Lucy

survey.jpg

Not sure who Lucy voted for but I am in the sensible minority that believe that the courts got it right!!

[MorristheRunt]

You never kown the candy man who one minute was selling illegal substances and pulling blonde ferrang women, the next was wearing orange robes and shaving his head

He just maybe be a good Buddhist and not be able to live with his dark secrets, or he may just get back to pulling on his No9 shirt and play the game.

[StealthEnergiser]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo held under tight security/challenging situation. Shackled/detained in cell, both restraint measures applied 24 hours a day.

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Understand shackles four months &24/7 cell detention one month. Guys even eat food in the cell. 61 high security prisoners in cell at night

Boring!!

It's not hard tell what group your in Lucy

survey.jpg

Not sure who Lucy voted for but I am in the sensible minority that believe that the courts got it right!!

thats only your opinion Lucy

[TheCruncher]

Boring!!

It's not hard tell what group your in Lucy

survey.jpg

Not sure who Lucy voted for but I am in the sensible minority that believe that the courts got it right!!

thats only your opinion Lucy

See you never can get it right, since the poll clearly says that 40 others are of the same opinion, and I haven't even voted yet.

[HUH]

Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted!

The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this?

They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!!

I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial.

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

Apparently, they confessed because they were tickled under the arm from the picture I saw of an almost bruise in the armpit area (probably self inflicted). God, the screams must have been unbearable!! If they tickled me so viciously I'd sign anything.

Your pathetic, they were burn marks from boiling water and the photo was not of the B2 but 3 of the Burmese football players who got rounded up and were allegedly tortured. I've never read so much complete nonsense from a poster as I have from you........wow

[uptheos]

Will the results of this poll be forwarded to anyone who can help?

[smedly]

here's another interesting thought

lets assume that this was a stitch up and all those involved were paid either to take part or keep their mouths shut -

if anyone - who is most likely to spill the beans and tell all

My money would be on the roti seller, very likely he has family in Myanmar and would like to return there at some point, he is likely not welcome at the moment, he likely has been hansomely paid or I am giving him to much credit and in fact knows absolutly nothing.

anyway if indeed he was a part of the suspected stich up and was a aware of certain things that might be highly incriminating my money would be on him to spill the beans especially if he wanted to return home

Is he still selling roti's ? is he still on Kog Tao, is he still in Thailand ? is he still alive ? lol

Assumptions are also irrelevant and not submissable in a court of law.

so TVF is now a court of law - is that what you are trying to say, please keep banging that wall with your head - really really hard, take a long run at it - no helmet

Edited December 28, 2015 by smedly

[asiamaster]

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

Or put a flannel over your face and pour gasoline on your head for hours on end whilst letting you listen to the sound of someone playing with a lighter...

Did the B2 mention anything about gasoline and lighters? All they said is that they were punched and that a plastic bag was put over their head. I'm not saying that the police did not apply any pressure or were a bit rough (this even happens in "civilised" countries) but torture???

[JLCrab]

< snip > and I have followed this tragic event from day one.

As who?

Well if it makes the front page of the New York Times, headlines on the BBC, is a major topic with AP...I would say there is just a little interest

Yes -- but who were you before 3 hours ago when you have following this 15 months ago since day one?

Edited December 28, 2015 by JLCrab

[asiamaster]

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

Apparently, they confessed because they were tickled under the arm from the picture I saw of an almost bruise in the armpit area (probably self inflicted). God, the screams must have been unbearable!! If they tickled me so viciously I'd sign anything.

Your pathetic, they were burn marks from boiling water and the photo was not of the B2 but 3 of the Burmese football players who got rounded up and were allegedly tortured. I've never read so much complete nonsense from a poster as I have from you........wow

didn't read the B2 mentioning any boiling water when they said they were "tortured" only punches and a plastic bag was mentioned. Did the bag contain boiling water?? I'm puzzled.

[asiamaster]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo asked our team to give the following messages to the general public today during our prison visit...

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

'Thank you everyone who has supported us. We are innocent and we were not involved in this horrific crime, we didn't kill. We want freedom.'

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  Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

  'We are confident the truth of this case will come out during the appeals and we are confident we will eventually be released on appeal.'

Some pretty good scriptwriters on the defense team I see.

[Darkknight666]

Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted!

The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this?
They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!!
I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial.

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

Apparently, they confessed because they were tickled under the arm from the picture I saw of an almost bruise in the armpit area (probably self inflicted). God, the screams must have been unbearable!! If they tickled me so viciously I'd sign anything.

Your pathetic, they were burn marks from boiling water and the photo was not of the B2 but 3 of the Burmese football players who got rounded up and were allegedly tortured. I've never read so much complete nonsense from a poster as I have from you........wow

Reminds me of GOLDBUGGY, this Lucky fella does.

Anyhow, At some point it was reported that Hannah had an argument in the bar with a "bar manager" as reported by an unnamed British witness. Some other interesting things here in the article linked. (can't recall if The Nation is allowed here, if not just delete the link please)

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/What-about-bar-manager-accused-of-harassing-victim-30246806.html

[DM07]

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

Or put a flannel over your face and pour gasoline on your head for hours on end whilst letting you listen to the sound of someone playing with a lighter...

Did the B2 mention anything about gasoline and lighters? All they said is that they were punched and that a plastic bag was put over their head. I'm not saying that the police did not apply any pressure or were a bit rough (this even happens in "civilised" countries) but torture???

Name one!

Name one civilized country, where this happens and goes unpunished, if it comes to the light!

"All they said"..."punched and that a plastic bag was put over their head"?

ALL?

For the love of God, man...stop talking out of your anus!

You know, what a plastic bag over your head does, right?!

Now imagine, you are in a 'safe house" with some dudes, who want to pin a murder on you!

You are loathsome!

[stander]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo held under tight security/challenging situation. Shackled/detained in cell, both restraint measures applied 24 hours a day.

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Understand shackles four months &24/7 cell detention one month. Guys even eat food in the cell. 61 high security prisoners in cell at night

That's more than the poor victims have.

[JLCrab]

< big snip >

Anyhow, At some point it was reported that Hannah had an argument in the bar with a "bar manager" as reported by an unnamed British witness. Some other interesting things here in the article linked. (can't recall if The Nation is allowed here, if not just delete the link please)

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/What-about-bar-manager-accused-of-harassing-victim-30246806.html

It was not 'reported' in The Nation. It was submitted as a non-corroborated OPINION piece as noted in the URL and the Article heading.

[bunglebag]

There is a lot of interest, hence why this case is still talked about.

You are witnesing something very evil and sinister.

This is a tradgedy for everyone involved and particularly the nation of Thailand.

Maybe in Thailand and Myanmar. But it's hardly on the scale of Paris, which generated genuine worldwide concern.

But in Paris the true culprits were identified and either dealt with or being searched for. Whereas here the true culprits have been protected and are still free and roaming

[jing jing]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo held under tight security/challenging situation. Shackled/detained in cell, both restraint measures applied 24 hours a day.

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Understand shackles four months &24/7 cell detention one month. Guys even eat food in the cell. 61 high security prisoners in cell at night

That's more than the poor victims have.

And your point is what, exactly?

Perhaps a more relevant comparison would be: in what circumstances do Messrs. Warot and Montriwat currently find themselves relative to that of the victims of this horrendous crime?

[MorristheRunt]

One of the statements read outside the court by the victims family was damming towards the two Burmese.

Has the family has received information outside that presented in the court?

If so, surely it would be in the interests of the Thai authorities to make that information public, so as to cease speculation about the verdict once and for all.

In my opinion the Burmese did not do it, BUT if evidence was presented that proved they did without reasonable doubt then I am more and happy to say I was wrong.

One thing that has worried me about there innocence is the lack of any evidence to show that one person of particular "interest" was on the Island of Koh Tao on the fateful night. In the age of smart phones, I simply can't believe a photo or video has never been seen to prove "he" was or maybe was not on the island that night.

Edited December 28, 2015 by MorristheRunt

[bunglebag]

Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted!

The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this?

They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!!

I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial.

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

Would they though?

If you're in a foreign country with a dodgy police force and you've been arrested for a crime, they take you off somewhere secret and start putting bags over your head etc. and you feared that after being close to suffocation already they were going to persist until they killed you. Would you really maintain silence until they started hitting you as well?

[brewsterbudgen]

There is a lot of interest, hence why this case is still talked about.

You are witnesing something very evil and sinister.

This is a tradgedy for everyone involved and particularly the nation of Thailand.

Maybe in Thailand and Myanmar. But it's hardly on the scale of Paris, which generated genuine worldwide concern.

But in Paris the true culprits were identified and either dealt with or being searched for. Whereas here the true culprits have been protected and are still free and roaming

That's not what everyone thinks, including one of the victim's family. I agree the whole thing stinks, but then I live in Thailand. Globally it's of marginal interest because the victims were young and good looking (and white) and their deaths were unspeakably savage. But it's not the international crime of the century.