How does thai language make a thai think differently to a person raised on english language?

[crickets]

Are thais problem solving skills differet to those who speak english, i notice that thai technitians use a lot less tools to get engineering work done. I also find their interpersonal skills are more basic between each other. Any opinions would be great.

[MaeJoMTB]

If the only tool you have is a hammer, every job begins to look like a nail.

[mesquite]

They're just wired differently.

[tonray]

Language is only a reflection of culture not its root determinant. I think Thais think and solve problems differently because their ways of interacting with others are different. Their lack of open confrontation and their need for always being with other people makes them think about situations differently.

[saakura]

From a thai perspective: Are farang problem solving skills differet to those who speak thai, i notice that farang technitians use a lot more tools to get engineering work done. I also find their interpersonal skills are more basic between each other. Any opinions would be great.

[TuskegeeBen]

If the only tool you have is a hammer, every job begins to look like a nail.

[CaptHaddock]

The idea that language determines or limits how we see the world is an idea that pops up again and again in linguistics where it is known as the Sapir-Whorf or Whorfian Hypothesis. Experimental support is largely lacking except for rather weak examples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity

[kannot]

If the only tool you have is a hammer, every job begins to look like a nail.

Theyll need to know which end of the hammer to hold because round here you dont even need a hammer......any large stone will do

[geronimo]

It is all down to education and Thais are not taught to think critically.

[Yooyung]

It is all down to education and Thais are not taught to think critically.

I'd say that's more to the point.

[stickylies]

No bpoblèm is a religion here. Says it all right?

[CharlieH]

The idea that language determines or limits how we see the world is an idea that pops up again and again in linguistics where it is known as the Sapir-Whorf or Whorfian Hypothesis. Experimental support is largely lacking except for rather weak examples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity

Whorf ? - damn Klingons get in everywhere.

[lannarebirth]

IMO, compared to English, Thai is not a very rich language. Many tings can be described as being positive or negative, can do, cannot do, but it lacks nuance. I think many Thais hear a lot of "can not" through the course of their lives and it stifles ambition.

[n210mp]

Without knocking Thai people I do find that their "lateral" thinking is not immediately apparent.

An example of this is the poor driving skills displayed where to actually "think" laterally would alleviate most juction problems but not to think at all would exacerbate the turmoil, especially on the railway bypass in Pattaya.

Same with simply walking down the street or wheeling a trolley in the Supermarket, Thai people seem to lack something that Westerners have and use automatically to avoid collision, the way that they walk straight across your obvious trajectory without even a sign that they have caused the subsequent near collision seems to add to an idea that they have difficulty in "thinking laterally" and avoiding either body contact or confrontation.

As far as language is concerned I have noticed that to ask a question in Thai it seems that they have to set the ground rules before actually getting to the question, same with the answer, there doesnt seem to be a simple yes or no but a preamble where the question in the first place may never actually be answered .

[CaptHaddock]

IMO, compared to English, Thai is not a very rich language. Many tings can be described as being positive or negative, can do, cannot do, but it lacks nuance. I think many Thais hear a lot of "can not" through the course of their lives and it stifles ambition.

But that's because you want to say in Thai just what you say in English. The Thai language is most suited for Thai purposes, not yours or mine. The richness of Thai is found especially in its wealth of pronouns which are used constantly by the Thais to negotiate, affirm, modify, etc. subtle differences in status, friendship, degree of closeness, etc. By comparison English is quite poor in its ability to express such refinements. For example, in Thai I can insult you strongly just with the rude version of "I" (กู). One of my teachers explained that he once deliberately cut off a friendship permanently simply by shifting to a more formal "you" than he had been using for years with that person. Those Thai usages can be expressed in English only in a clumsy way.

I remember being a little shocked when I learned French well enough to notice the absence of the use of a shift in style from high style to low style as a source of the humor with which American English is richly endowed from Mark Twain to the Three Stooges. In French, everyone aspires to elegance. Politicians flaunt the subjunctive, et. But then after reflection one gives up looking for English in the other languages of the world to enjoy them for their own virtues.

[lannarebirth]

IMO, compared to English, Thai is not a very rich language. Many tings can be described as being positive or negative, can do, cannot do, but it lacks nuance. I think many Thais hear a lot of "can not" through the course of their lives and it stifles ambition.

But that's because you want to say in Thai just what you say in English. The Thai language is most suited for Thai purposes, not yours or mine. The richness of Thai is found especially in its wealth of pronouns which are used constantly by the Thais to negotiate, affirm, modify, etc. subtle differences in status, friendship, degree of closeness, etc. By comparison English is quite poor in its ability to express such refinements. For example, in Thai I can insult you strongly just with the rude version of "I" (กู). One of my teachers explained that he once deliberately cut off a friendship permanently simply by shifting to a more formal "you" than he had been using for years with that person. Those Thai usages can be expressed in English only in a clumsy way.

I remember being a little shocked when I learned French well enough to notice the absence of the use of a shift in style from high style to low style as a source of the humor with which American English is richly endowed from Mark Twain to the Three Stooges. In French, everyone aspires to elegance. Politicians flaunt the subjunctive, et. But then after reflection one gives up looking for English in the other languages of the world to enjoy them for their own virtues.

While you make an interesting point, I disagree. I'm not looking for pronouns that tell me what you think of me or what our comparative statuses are. I'm looking for adverbs and adjectives and modifiers that more completely describe what the hell it is you're talking about. To be fair, I don't look for that only in Thais. I look for that in English speakers as well, and not always with good results.

[fishbrando]

Interesting article on how language affects mathematics skills:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-best-language-for-math-1410304008

What's the best language for learning math? Hint: You're not reading it.

Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Turkish use simpler number words and express math concepts more clearly than English, making it easier for small children to learn counting and arithmetic, research shows.

[Sheryl]

Language is only a reflection of culture not its root determinant. I think Thais think and solve problems differently because their ways of interacting with others are different. Their lack of open confrontation and their need for always being with other people makes them think about situations differently.

+1.

I do not find the Thai language to significantly affect how one can think about things - it allows for plenty of nuances and variations. There are languages which do seem to do this (Khmer and Bengali, among the ones that I am familiar with) but I don't notice this particularly with Thai.

I think the differences you note are rooted in culture and also an education system that stresses rote memorization and discourages creative thought, but not the language. In addition to the above-mentioned high emphasis on social harmony there is the extreme concern about losing face, which together with the educational system makes people very reluctant to take risks or think outside the box. I think this also explains the apparent preference for being vague rather than precise (which even features in such things as written government directives, where preciseness and clarity are especially important) -- the more clear and precise you are, the more easily someone can identify something in what you say as "wrong". Or so the logic seems to be.

That said, there are certainly Thais who think creatively and independently and are willing to take risks. But these are not typical, and they have these traits despite the educational system, not due to it.

[CaptHaddock]

IMO, compared to English, Thai is not a very rich language. Many tings can be described as being positive or negative, can do, cannot do, but it lacks nuance. I think many Thais hear a lot of "can not" through the course of their lives and it stifles ambition.

But that's because you want to say in Thai just what you say in English. The Thai language is most suited for Thai purposes, not yours or mine. The richness of Thai is found especially in its wealth of pronouns which are used constantly by the Thais to negotiate, affirm, modify, etc. subtle differences in status, friendship, degree of closeness, etc. By comparison English is quite poor in its ability to express such refinements. For example, in Thai I can insult you strongly just with the rude version of "I" (กู). One of my teachers explained that he once deliberately cut off a friendship permanently simply by shifting to a more formal "you" than he had been using for years with that person. Those Thai usages can be expressed in English only in a clumsy way.

I remember being a little shocked when I learned French well enough to notice the absence of the use of a shift in style from high style to low style as a source of the humor with which American English is richly endowed from Mark Twain to the Three Stooges. In French, everyone aspires to elegance. Politicians flaunt the subjunctive, et. But then after reflection one gives up looking for English in the other languages of the world to enjoy them for their own virtues.

While you make an interesting point, I disagree. I'm not looking for pronouns that tell me what you think of me or what our comparative statuses are. I'm looking for adverbs and adjectives and modifiers that more completely describe what the hell it is you're talking about. To be fair, I don't look for that only in Thais. I look for that in English speakers as well, and not always with good results.

I know what you're looking for and missing, I am only trying to point out you, by the way, are missing out on what's there. It's like joining in the vigorous discussion on TV as to the best hamburger in Bangkok. On the one hand I can (with effort) sympathize on missing a good burger, but on the other hand cannot help but wonder why, if you want a really good burger, are you not in, say, Kansas?

Really learning another language well, particularly one as distant from English as Thai, involves a progressive giving up, if only provisionally and just in bits at a time, on our original worldview. That might be stressful or disturbing, but it might be exhilirating also. What's certain is that viewing Thai as merely a defective variety of English is an impoverishing viewpoint.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Interesting article on how language affects mathematics skills:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-best-language-for-math-1410304008

What's the best language for learning math? Hint: You're not reading it.

Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Turkish use simpler number words and express math concepts more clearly than English, making it easier for small children to learn counting and arithmetic, research shows.

Because Thai have names for 10,000 and 100,000 they have a hard time vision numbers bigger than 10,000 and you often see numbers translated wrong in the local English newspapers. It was take time for a Thai to calculate how much 25% of 1 million is or subtract 150,000 from a million.

I saw the same mistakes in China also.

Edited January 1, 2016 by ExpatOilWorker

[Sheryl]

AFAIK anything that can be said i nEnglish can also be accurately expressed in Thai. But of course, one has to really understand the language to be able to do that, it will not work to try to take the same sentence construction and so forth and render it in Thai, you have to go back to what the basic concept is and assemble that thought according to the rules and structure of the Thai language.

It sounds like what lannarebirth is describing is cultural and also possibly a feature of how Thais express themselves when speaking to a foreigner not fluent in Thai. It is perfectly possible to express nuances in Thai, indeed I find Thais tend to shy away from making statements in the absolute, but there are some common features to talking across just a language barrier regardless of the languages involved.

Just as there is a simplified, somewhat childlike and blunt version of English that English speakers tend to use when talking to people with limited English comprehension, so is there a simplified, dumbed-down blunt version of Thai that Thai speakers use when talking to foreigners not fluent in Thai (as most foreigners are not). In this case both linguistic and cultural fluency is a consideration, even if it is thought the person being spoken to might grasp linguistic nuances they might not grasp cultural ones and in any case it will prolong the discussion and potentially make it more burdensome, so it is far easier to just express things in black and white simplistic terms. Thais do like the keep things simple whenever possible, and some of them are not too fond of trying to communicate with farangs as well, so opt for saying things as simply and flatly as possible to minimize misunderstanding and get the discussion ended as fast as possible.

As for "can not", it is indeed a maddeningly overused phrase and can often reflect an unwillingness to either do whatever it is or to bother getting clarification as to what it is/what it would entail, as well as a reluctance to take risks -- anything that is not familiar comfortable territory is apt to get "can not-ed" as a knee jerk reaction. And, like un-nuanced speech, it is also a way of getting discussions ended more quickly. But this has nothing to do with language, it is perfectly possible to say "might be able to", "can if XYZ" "not sure if it can be done" etc in Thai.

[thailandstupidlife]

Great !

I feel less lonely, someone else understand how they think and act...

Without knocking Thai people I do find that their "lateral" thinking is not immediately apparent.

An example of this is the poor driving skills displayed where to actually "think" laterally would alleviate most juction problems but not to think at all would exacerbate the turmoil, especially on the railway bypass in Pattaya.

Same with simply walking down the street or wheeling a trolley in the Supermarket, Thai people seem to lack something that Westerners have and use automatically to avoid collision, the way that they walk straight across your obvious trajectory without even a sign that they have caused the subsequent near collision seems to add to an idea that they have difficulty in "thinking laterally" and avoiding either body contact or confrontation.

As far as language is concerned I have noticed that to ask a question in Thai it seems that they have to set the ground rules before actually getting to the question, same with the answer, there doesnt seem to be a simple yes or no but a preamble where the question in the first place may never actually be answered .

[Sheryl]

"They" are individuals and no more uniform in how they think and act than the people of any other nation.

[jerojero]

IMO, compared to English, Thai is not a very rich language. Many tings can be described as being positive or negative, can do, cannot do, but it lacks nuance. I think many Thais hear a lot of "can not" through the course of their lives and it stifles ambition.

But that's because you want to say in Thai just what you say in English. The Thai language is most suited for Thai purposes, not yours or mine. The richness of Thai is found especially in its wealth of pronouns which are used constantly by the Thais to negotiate, affirm, modify, etc. subtle differences in status, friendship, degree of closeness, etc. By comparison English is quite poor in its ability to express such refinements. For example, in Thai I can insult you strongly just with the rude version of "I" (กู). One of my teachers explained that he once deliberately cut off a friendship permanently simply by shifting to a more formal "you" than he had been using for years with that person. Those Thai usages can be expressed in English only in a clumsy way.

I remember being a little shocked when I learned French well enough to notice the absence of the use of a shift in style from high style to low style as a source of the humor with which American English is richly endowed from Mark Twain to the Three Stooges. In French, everyone aspires to elegance. Politicians flaunt the subjunctive, et. But then after reflection one gives up looking for English in the other languages of the world to enjoy them for their own virtues.

Yup, and as George W Bush once complained about the French: (public quote) "They don't even have a word for entrepreneur! ".

[MAJIC]

It is all down to education and Thais are not taught to think critically.

I'd say that's more to the point.

Or logically for that matter !

[Riviera]

I have noticed when it comes to planning out how a problem is going to be tackled, Thais do not often pay much interest to the Contingency Plan. While we Westerners may have a Plan A, a Plan B and even a Plan C, the Thai approach seems more about believing in your Plan A with all your heart.

I am not sure however if this has much to do with language, but is more likely to be cultural.

[Seastallion]

"They" are individuals and no more uniform in how they think and act than the people of any other nation.

Disagree.

On two counts:

People of any other nation will show general mindset or attitudes on some things,.

Thai in particular because of the reluctance to risk losing face, conformity is a big common factor here.

[BaronOfThunder]

The hypothesis on which this post was made is not based on what we know of linguistics.

Looking at the way language can influence thought or perception, it is possible to have thought affect ones color perception, as in color words can affect color perceived.

However, you are going down the wrong road if you think that language changes thought.

Language is a tool which evolved for the sole purpose of allowing humans to think.

We think what we think, what we want to think, using languages which are extremely similar to one another.

[CaptHaddock]

The hypothesis on which this post was made is not based on what we know of linguistics.

Looking at the way language can influence thought or perception, it is possible to have thought affect ones color perception, as in color words can affect color perceived.

However, you are going down the wrong road if you think that language changes thought.

Language is a tool which evolved for the sole purpose of allowing humans to think.

We think what we think, what we want to think, using languages which are extremely similar to one another.

Oh, there are many theories about why human evolved speech. My favorite theory is that it evolve for men to sweet talk chicks. Seriously.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mating-Mind-Sexual-Evolution/dp/038549517X?tag=duckduckgo-ffsb-20

Amazon.com Review

Evolutionary psychology has been called the "new black" of science fashion, though at its most controversial, it more resembles the emperor's new clothes. Geoffrey Miller is one of the Young Turks trying to give the phenomenon a better spin. In The Mating Mind, he takes Darwin's "other" evolutionary theory--of sexual rather than natural selection--and uses it to build a theory about how the human mind has developed the sophistication of a peacock's tail to encourage sexual choice and the refining of art, morality, music, and literature.

Where many evolutionary psychologists see the mind as a Swiss army knife, and cognitive science sees it as a computer, Miller compares it to an entertainment system, evolved to stimulate other brains. Taking up the baton from studies such as Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene, it's a dizzyingly ambitious project, which would be impossibly vague without the ingenuity and irreverence that Miller brings to bear on it. Steeped in popular culture, the book mixes theories of runaway selection, fitness indicators, and sensory bias with explanations of why men tip more than women and how female choice shaped (quite literally) the penis. It also extols the sagacity of Mary Poppins. Indeed, Miller allows ideas to cascade at such a torrent that the steam given off can run the risk of being mistaken for hot air).

That large personalities can be as sexually enticing as oversize breasts or biceps may indeed prove comforting, but denuding sexual chemistry can be a curiously unsexy business, akin to analyzing humor. As a courting display of Miller's intellectual plumage, though, The Mating Mind is formidable, its agent-provocateur chest swelled with ideas and articulate conjecture. While occasionally his magpie instinct may loot fool's gold, overall it provides an accessible and attractive insight into modern Darwinism and the survival of the sexiest. --David Vincent, Amazon.co.uk --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

[BaronOfThunder]

The hypothesis on which this post was made is not based on what we know of linguistics.

Looking at the way language can influence thought or perception, it is possible to have thought affect ones color perception, as in color words can affect color perceived.

However, you are going down the wrong road if you think that language changes thought.

Language is a tool which evolved for the sole purpose of allowing humans to think.

We think what we think, what we want to think, using languages which are extremely similar to one another.

Oh, there are many theories about why human evolved speech. My favorite theory is that it evolve for men to sweet talk chicks. Seriously.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mating-Mind-Sexual-Evolution/dp/038549517X?tag=duckduckgo-ffsb-20

Amazon.com Review

Evolutionary psychology has been called the "new black" of science fashion, though at its most controversial, it more resembles the emperor's new clothes. Geoffrey Miller is one of the Young Turks trying to give the phenomenon a better spin. In The Mating Mind, he takes Darwin's "other" evolutionary theory--of sexual rather than natural selection--and uses it to build a theory about how the human mind has developed the sophistication of a peacock's tail to encourage sexual choice and the refining of art, morality, music, and literature.

Where many evolutionary psychologists see the mind as a Swiss army knife, and cognitive science sees it as a computer, Miller compares it to an entertainment system, evolved to stimulate other brains. Taking up the baton from studies such as Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene, it's a dizzyingly ambitious project, which would be impossibly vague without the ingenuity and irreverence that Miller brings to bear on it. Steeped in popular culture, the book mixes theories of runaway selection, fitness indicators, and sensory bias with explanations of why men tip more than women and how female choice shaped (quite literally) the penis. It also extols the sagacity of Mary Poppins. Indeed, Miller allows ideas to cascade at such a torrent that the steam given off can run the risk of being mistaken for hot air).

That large personalities can be as sexually enticing as oversize breasts or biceps may indeed prove comforting, but denuding sexual chemistry can be a curiously unsexy business, akin to analyzing humor. As a courting display of Miller's intellectual plumage, though, The Mating Mind is formidable, its agent-provocateur chest swelled with ideas and articulate conjecture. While occasionally his magpie instinct may loot fool's gold, overall it provides an accessible and attractive insight into modern Darwinism and the survival of the sexiest. --David Vincent, Amazon.co.uk --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

Please,....

Start with Chomsky.