Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end

[Oziex1]

"The Koh Tao investigation was compromised from the beginning,"

Curiously, the article doesn't mention RTP's misdirection with its early arrest of Brit backpacker Christopher Alanvare for the murders, failed results from DNA samples collected from foreign workers who lived near the murder scene and failure to implicate three Myanmar workers when "interrogation revealed they were not involved in the fatal attack."

Seemingly, these initial investigative failures set the stage for the RTP to lose control of the murder scene, chain of evidence and (mostly importantly) face. The article further does not mention Prayut's involvement in the case when he declared that "no Thais would have committed the murders" and rewarded the RTP with cash for their quick arrest of the 2 Burmese and their confessions. It is then that it seems any further objective investigation was lost.

I don't think such detail was required, I suspect the writer was putting themselves in a very vulnerable position in commenting on this case.

The outline of the piece was enough to state the obvious, that it was a classic RTP setup of powerless defenseless immigrants.

All power to the writer for keeping this in the news and to keep the authorities stumbling over their words as they attempt to maintain credibility.

[sawadee1947]

Bravo, Bravo, Bravo.

I did not expect such an article. Hope we will not see the author in prison next...

Suppose PM will have a hard time 2016

[z42]

The article fails to address the fact that both the British police - who reviewed the case on site - and the families of the victims both seem to agree that justice has been served. Why would that be?

The Millers agreed, that was likely due to very clever manipulation of facts and even more clever discrediting of so called "activist" groups by their Thai handlers while in Thailand, and also the Millers' naivety towards the way that the RTP and Thai justice system works undoubtedly played a part in the statement they made.

The British government didn't agree that justice was served (do you have a link that confirms they said that?) And the Witheridge family has so far declined to comment, and have said they will tell their story in time.

Britain is doing what any government would do. They are choosing to be neutral in spite of what is in front of them because in the bigger picture a friendly long term relationship with Thailand's government and institutions is more important than a few either being dead or in jail. Sadly it is the nation's interests which trump the individual's interests

[Lex Talionis]

The article fails to address the fact that both the British police - who reviewed the case on site - and the families of the victims both seem to agree that justice has been served. Why would that be?

The Millers agreed, that was likely due to very clever manipulation of facts and even more clever discrediting of so called "activist" groups by their Thai handlers while in Thailand, and also the Millers' naivety towards the way that the RTP and Thai justice system works undoubtedly played a part in the statement they made.

The British government didn't agree that justice was served (do you have a link that confirms they said that?) And the Witheridge family has so far declined to comment, and have said they will tell their story in time.

Britain is doing what any government would do. They are choosing to be neutral in spite of what is in front of them because in the bigger picture a friendly long term relationship with Thailand's government and institutions is more important than a few either being dead or in jail. Sadly it is the nation's interests which trump the individual's interests

I didn't say the British government I said the British police.

"British officers were sent to Thailand to conduct an inquiry into the investigation, and they reported their findings to the victims’ families. After meeting with the officers, Ms. Witheridge’s family said they were “confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes, and want to remind both press and public that they do not have the full facts to report and make comment on at this stage.”

After the hearing on Thursday, Michael Miller, the victim’s brother, read a statement outside the court on the island of Koh Samui, saying that while the Thai police had had a “difficult start” in their investigation, the family believed the evidence against the defendants was “absolutely overwhelming.”

“We believe the correct verdict has been reached,” the statement said."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/world/asia/thailand-koh-tao-murder.html?referer=&_r=0

[Tingtau]

It was no "rumour" as to having two suspects, both of whom are related to the headman in Koh Tao..at least one was even arrested...but...............!! And when one looks at the various CCTV photos of the persons believed to have been involved, that have been made available, the resemblance to the two that were Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen's suspects, is truly uncanny. Couple that with the apparent fact no DNA was ever obtained from either of those two (unbelievable!!), the abrupt about-face by police after those two's father/uncle respectively comes in to talk with the police and the ABSOLUTELY appalling conduct of so-called trained investigators during the entire investigation....and the list goes on......missing/used up evidence of guilt..no problem, word of investigators is accepted, while evidence (DNA on murder weapon is found to be that of two unknown subjects) that is supports a belief that others are the guilty party...that is ignored!!! The resultant conclusion is almost, if not totally inescapable!! I hope that the hue and cry does not let up.........there is no "conspiracy to defame or belittle the RTP" by any clandestine group, for krissake!! The RTP did that all on their own and, imho, did a bang up job looking at all the evidence that has become public knowledge!! Now,their bang up job is being hung out and waved in the public's face by those whom I thought were working on ridding Thailand of corruption!

I know that non-Thais are "expected" to keep their "noses" out of politics, but with what has happened in this case, surely it can be understood that there is now a legitimate fear that if something happened to one of us, a similar shoddy (corrupt?) investigation could take place OR that even there is a possibility that one or more of us might find ourselves accused, charged and convicted in the same manner as the two Burmese men! The information that is contained in "Anonymous" report is largely confirmed by actual photo or video footage or by statements that have been made in court! One last comment....one cannot prove that torture was involved because of the very nature of the circumstances under which it is alleged to have been committed, but with the similarities of claims made by others over the years, plus the disappearance of a human rights lawyer after being provably abducted by members of the RTP while he was in the midst of representing persons making accusations of torture against RTP officers..........at some point, a reasonable person must say "There is definitely something very rotten here!!" And it doesn't require any "clandestine group working to defame the police" to come to that conclusion!!

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

Edited January 1, 2016 by Tingtau

[AleG]

"The investigation into the murder of two British backpackers on Koh Tao was, from the very start, a muddled affair"
Specially muddled by people airing uninformed opinions and the press happily playing along. Such as this:

"Irked government officials claimed the reaction was all a conspiracy to discredit the Royal Thai Police. It would be wonderful if it could be so easily imagined away."

That there are groups of people working to discredit the Koh Tao police investigation is a fact, they even set FB pages and websites for that purpose.

"The Koh Tao investigation was compromised from the beginning, when police failed to properly seal off the crime scene. A rumour that the attack was carried out by someone linked to influential figures on the island was summarily dismissed and investigators quickly focused on the migrant community, refusing to even contemplate the possibility that Thais might have been involved."

Except that they did name and question said influential figures, Thais and foreigners besides migrant workers. So, false again... what was that about muddled things?

"Respected forensic scientist Pornthip Rojanasunand, who has clashed with law-enforcement officials in the past, was denied access to the investigators' findings."
The defense was allowed to retest the evidence, Pornthip worked on it and reviewed the documentation. On top of that it was the defense that declined to retest the main DNA evidence, after asking for it.

"More doubts were raised over the failure to run comparative DNA tests the female victim's clothing and a hoe that was the purported murder weapon. Pornthip, acting on behalf of the defendants, conducted that test and found that the DNA on the hoe did not match that of the accused."

How about adding the factual nuance to that statement, for the sake of unmuddlying things? The initial police analysis found DNA from Witheridge on the hoe, Pornthip's analysis found also DNA from David Miller, and a third partial profile that matched 25% of the markers from one of the Burmese.

"The court presumably attached more credence to prosecution testimony that the suspects' semen was found on the female victim's body, even though analysis of the DNA samples of three people was, in the view of other witnesses, done too hastily."

Why wouldn't the judge attach more credence to people presenting actual evidence against biased opinions from the defense?

"Most troubling of all for the police case - and for the police force's reputation - is the fact the defendants, having withdrawn their confessions once a lawyer was belatedly provided, claimed they had admitted to the crime after being tortured. The court did not even take this point into consideration."

The court did take that into consideration, as anyone that reads the court ruling can see for themselves; so again muddle muddle muddle. The judge decided that there was no evidence of torture, in any case it's all moot since the ruling did not use the confessions to reach a decision(all of them, including to the Human Rights Commision, Myanmar embassy officials and other people)

"In spite of these many doubts and shortcomings, the national police chief, Pol Gen Jakthip Chaijinda, had the audacity to suggest that an unnamed political group had instigated the ensuing protests to discredit his men."

The very politically involved Ma Ba Tha sect that has been organizing the largest protests.

"The simple answer is that none of the other cases caught the interest of the foreign press, which stemmed from the fact that the victims in this murder were citizens of Britain, where the news media are not only highly opinionated but also alert to the hazards of Thai tourism."

This was not the first time Burmese murdered foreigners in Thailand, the difference is that in this case the defense team made every effort to, in their own words, have the case judged on the court of public opinion. Perhaps the should had focused on the court of law instead.

"Moreover, the story evoked an all-too-common narrative - defenceless migrant workers becoming ready scapegoats in criminal probes and the victims of the whims of the rich and powerful."

Bingo, it's all about the narrative, not what the facts dictate.

Edited January 1, 2016 by AleG

[phuketandsee]

The article fails to address the fact that both the British police - who reviewed the case on site - and the families of the victims both seem to agree that justice has been served. Why would that be?

The Millers agreed, that was likely due to very clever manipulation of facts and even more clever discrediting of so called "activist" groups by their Thai handlers while in Thailand, and also the Millers' naivety towards the way that the RTP and Thai justice system works undoubtedly played a part in the statement they made.

The British government didn't agree that justice was served (do you have a link that confirms they said that?) And the Witheridge family has so far declined to comment, and have said they will tell their story in time.

Britain is doing what any government would do. They are choosing to be neutral in spite of what is in front of them because in the bigger picture a friendly long term relationship with Thailand's government and institutions is more important than a few either being dead or in jail. Sadly it is the nation's interests which trump the individual's interests

I didn't say the British government I said the British police.

"British officers were sent to Thailand to conduct an inquiry into the investigation, and they reported their findings to the victims’ families. After meeting with the officers, Ms. Witheridge’s family said they were “confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes, and want to remind both press and public that they do not have the full facts to report and make comment on at this stage.”

After the hearing on Thursday, Michael Miller, the victim’s brother, read a statement outside the court on the island of Koh Samui, saying that while the Thai police had had a “difficult start” in their investigation, the family believed the evidence against the defendants was “absolutely overwhelming.”

“We believe the correct verdict has been reached,” the statement said."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/world/asia/thailand-koh-tao-murder.html?referer=&_r=0

I think you need to do a bit more research before posting on this. The British police did not "conduct and inquiry into the investigation." They were allowed to "observe" only those parts that the RTP deemed appropriate for them.

Edited January 1, 2016 by phuketandsee

[wabothai]

I hope the backfiring will be relentless.

[jomcondo]

I expect the B2 will be released on appeal.

Unfortunately the victims families are being hoodwinked.

[khunPer]

(Quote from OP article) ...A rumour that the attack was carried out by someone linked to influential figures on the island was summarily dismissed and investigators quickly focused on the migrant community, refusing to even contemplate the possibility that Thais might have been involved. The police gave no explanation for this shift in focus,...

If my memory serves me right, the PM suggested to look at for foreigner(s) as potential suspects...

[elgordo38]

Well written article!

Amen he better watch his back. He is treading on a lot of powerful toes and also going behind the face saving masks they are wearing. His most dangerous statement repeating that some "organization" was behind the demonstrations which was well far reaching at best by the teller and I am sure he did not like it repeated. I feel the Koh Tao case was another "pack em and stack em" deal. It sure did make a fast U turn away from some powerful people. This whole fiasco could take on a life of its own.

Edited January 1, 2016 by elgordo38

[oldsailor35]

"A rumour that the attack was carried out by someone linked to influential figures on the island was summarily dismissed"

Much more than a rumour, it was a statement by the investigating officer, who was then quickly removed from the case.

He declared that he had conclusive evidence from CCTV. Evidence which was never again seen after his dismissal from the case.

[tuanku]

"A rumour that the attack was carried out by someone linked to influential figures on the island was summarily dismissed"

Much more than a rumour, it was a statement by the investigating officer, who was then quickly removed from the case.

He declared that he had conclusive evidence from CCTV. Evidence which was never again seen after his dismissal from the case.

It wasn't the right evidence, leading as it did in the wrong direction.

[elgordo38]

2016, stating the obvious... But in all seriousness what hope does Thailand have when almost all in a uniform appear to be very openly unscrupulous & insistent on spinning implausible theories on an almost daily basis.

The honest & hard working people here (and there are very many) deserve much much better than this outfit.

Quite often you get what you deserve

So you're telling me that the likely millions of Thais who strive either to better themselves through learning, or who toil for hours in tropical heat for an insultingly low salary that teeters on exploitation deserve government institutions that behave in the manner the RTP / RTA have behaved over the years (with impunity I may add) are you?

I'm sorry to break it to you. But those people do deserve better, and those who don't deserve better are higher up the ladder anyways & generally don't care & accept all the lies, deception and downright cheating as OK because they themselves are OK and not really affected by it. It's 2016 for christ's sake, it's unacceptable. End of

I think you can remove the word teetering. I think its full blown exploitation. The whole world is moving toward worker exploitation. No more job with a future only contracts, no benefits, no pension. That is why all the good paying jobs came from the west to the east to reduce the western workers expectations and bring him to heel. 0.7% down from 1% now control half the wealth in the world and in the end they want it all.

[Lex Talionis]

The article fails to address the fact that both the British police - who reviewed the case on site - and the families of the victims both seem to agree that justice has been served. Why would that be?

The Millers agreed, that was likely due to very clever manipulation of facts and even more clever discrediting of so called "activist" groups by their Thai handlers while in Thailand, and also the Millers' naivety towards the way that the RTP and Thai justice system works undoubtedly played a part in the statement they made.

The British government didn't agree that justice was served (do you have a link that confirms they said that?) And the Witheridge family has so far declined to comment, and have said they will tell their story in time.

Britain is doing what any government would do. They are choosing to be neutral in spite of what is in front of them because in the bigger picture a friendly long term relationship with Thailand's government and institutions is more important than a few either being dead or in jail. Sadly it is the nation's interests which trump the individual's interests

I didn't say the British government I said the British police.

"British officers were sent to Thailand to conduct an inquiry into the investigation, and they reported their findings to the victims’ families. After meeting with the officers, Ms. Witheridge’s family said they were “confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes, and want to remind both press and public that they do not have the full facts to report and make comment on at this stage.”

After the hearing on Thursday, Michael Miller, the victim’s brother, read a statement outside the court on the island of Koh Samui, saying that while the Thai police had had a “difficult start” in their investigation, the family believed the evidence against the defendants was “absolutely overwhelming.”

“We believe the correct verdict has been reached,” the statement said."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/world/asia/thailand-koh-tao-murder.html?referer=&_r=0

I think you need to do a bit more research before posting on this. The British police did not "conduct and inquiry into the investigation." They were allowed to "observe" only those parts that the RTP deemed appropriate for them.

No more research is needed on my part as you seem to have (intentionally?) misquoted me. I said the British police reviewed the case on site which is true. Not that they conducted their own investigation.

And what evidence do you have that these police only observed the parts deemed appropriate by the RTP? Can you back that up with a credible citation? Or is that just a libelous assumption? Maybe it's you who needs to do some more research.

I'm not going to re-argue the case which has been done ad infinitum on several other long and tedious threads. I merely pointing out that the author has not addressed these 2 critical points. That the British police were satisfied with the RTP investigation and that the families also seem to feel that justice was served, that the evidence was overwhelming.

Justice is owed to the families. Not to the many skeptical posters on TVF.

[oldsailor35]

Who was the judge and what is his back ground and history.

[B166ER]

....this is a wonderful gift to start the New Year! Wow....who'd a thunk it? Day one....it's only going to get bigger and bigger.....cause n' effect! It makes me laugh at anyone trying as hard as they can to actually keep trying as hard as they can to tell readers on this forum that the B2 are guilty....Haters be hating.....that's what they do. Happy New Years to everyone....even the naysayers....you'll come around.....

[jucel]

2016, stating the obvious... But in all seriousness what hope does Thailand have when almost all in a uniform appear to be very openly unscrupulous & insistent on spinning implausible theories on an almost daily basis.

The honest & hard working people here (and there are very many) deserve much much better than this outfit.

Quite often you get what you deserve

So you're telling me that the likely millions of Thais who strive either to better themselves through learning, or who toil for hours in tropical heat for an insultingly low salary that teeters on exploitation deserve government institutions that behave in the manner the RTP / RTA have behaved over the years (with impunity I may add) are you?

I'm sorry to break it to you. But those people do deserve better, and those who don't deserve better are higher up the ladder anyways & generally don't care & accept all the lies, deception and downright cheating as OK because they themselves are OK and not really affected by it. It's 2016 for christ's sake, it's unacceptable. End of

I understand what you are saying, I should of put more meat on the bones. Society seems to accept the corruption and exploitation. We all know that protests are banned now, but I can't remember ever seeing mass protests in the last 15 years re corruption/human rights from the Thai people.

It's this whole mai bpen rai attitude that leads me to believe they are getting the govt/police force they deserve. Where are the people to lead a revolution against these injustices? Where is the Ghandi or the Suu Kyi Type person ?? They don't seem to exist in Thailand

India which has a massive corruption problem often see huge protests re corruption. I'm not sure how much good it does but at least members of society show their disapproval.

Edited January 1, 2016 by jucel

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed, this has nothing to do with the immigration issue in Germany.

[Aj Mick]

"The investigation into the murder of two British backpackers on Koh Tao was, from the very start, a muddled affair"

Specially muddled by people airing uninformed opinions and the press happily playing along. Such as this:

"Irked government officials claimed the reaction was all a conspiracy to discredit the Royal Thai Police. It would be wonderful if it could be so easily imagined away."

That there are groups of people working to discredit the Koh Tao police investigation is a fact, they even set FB pages and websites for that purpose.

"The Koh Tao investigation was compromised from the beginning, when police failed to properly seal off the crime scene. A rumour that the attack was carried out by someone linked to influential figures on the island was summarily dismissed and investigators quickly focused on the migrant community, refusing to even contemplate the possibility that Thais might have been involved."

Except that they did name and question said influential figures, Thais and foreigners besides migrant workers. So, false again... what was that about muddled things?

"Respected forensic scientist Pornthip Rojanasunand, who has clashed with law-enforcement officials in the past, was denied access to the investigators' findings."

The defense was allowed to retest the evidence, Pornthip worked on it and reviewed the documentation. On top of that it was the defense that declined to retest the main DNA evidence, after asking for it.

"More doubts were raised over the failure to run comparative DNA tests the female victim's clothing and a hoe that was the purported murder weapon. Pornthip, acting on behalf of the defendants, conducted that test and found that the DNA on the hoe did not match that of the accused."

How about adding the factual nuance to that statement, for the sake of unmuddlying things? The initial police analysis found DNA from Witheridge on the hoe, Pornthip's analysis found also DNA from David Miller, and a third partial profile that matched 25% of the markers from one of the Burmese.

"The court presumably attached more credence to prosecution testimony that the suspects' semen was found on the female victim's body, even though analysis of the DNA samples of three people was, in the view of other witnesses, done too hastily."

Why wouldn't the judge attach more credence to people presenting actual evidence against biased opinions from the defense?

"Most troubling of all for the police case - and for the police force's reputation - is the fact the defendants, having withdrawn their confessions once a lawyer was belatedly provided, claimed they had admitted to the crime after being tortured. The court did not even take this point into consideration."

The court did take that into consideration, as anyone that reads the court ruling can see for themselves; so again muddle muddle muddle. The judge decided that there was no evidence of torture, in any case it's all moot since the ruling did not use the confessions to reach a decision(all of them, including to the Human Rights Commision, Myanmar embassy officials and other people)

"In spite of these many doubts and shortcomings, the national police chief, Pol Gen Jakthip Chaijinda, had the audacity to suggest that an unnamed political group had instigated the ensuing protests to discredit his men."

The very politically involved Ma Ba Tha sect that has been organizing the largest protests.

"The simple answer is that none of the other cases caught the interest of the foreign press, which stemmed from the fact that the victims in this murder were citizens of Britain, where the news media are not only highly opinionated but also alert to the hazards of Thai tourism."

This was not the first time Burmese murdered foreigners in Thailand, the difference is that in this case the defense team made every effort to, in their own words, have the case judged on the court of public opinion. Perhaps the should had focused on the court of law instead.

"Moreover, the story evoked an all-too-common narrative - defenceless migrant workers becoming ready scapegoats in criminal probes and the victims of the whims of the rich and powerful."

Bingo, it's all about the narrative, not what the facts dictate.

Disingenuous nonsense, AleG, and you know it.

Your agenda, along with those who investigated and prosecuted the case, is to keep the heat off well connected thugs on Koh Tao, for reasons best known to yourselves…… vested interests, methinks.

[mrrizzla]

Brave journo that wrote that.

I see the RTP fan club are already in here. The whole world knows that this is a stitch up, stop fooling yourselves.

[Reigntax]

About time the media started telling the whole story as it is rather than avoid stating the obvious facts just to make a certain self elected, pretend politician keep face.

The military compound walls are slowly crumbling around the incompetent, self centred elitists.

[connda]

Just an observation regarding the Thai Judicial System, but there does not seem to be a mandate for proper "discovery" and the sharing of all facts and evidences between the prosecutors and defense teams as is done in US courts.

Just asking, but here in Thailand, can the prosecution legally withhold evidence from the defense team?

[phuketandsee]

"No more research is needed on my part as you seem to have (intentionally?) misquoted me. I said the British police reviewed the case on site which is true. Not that they conducted their own investigation.

And what evidence do you have that these police only observed the parts deemed appropriate by the RTP? Can you back that up with a credible citation? Or is that just a libelous assumption? Maybe it's you who needs to do some more research.

I'm not going to re-argue the case which has been done ad infinitum on several other long and tedious threads. I merely pointing out that the author has not addressed these 2 critical points. That the British police were satisfied with the RTP investigation and that the families also seem to feel that justice was served, that the evidence was overwhelming.

Justice is owed to the families. Not to the many skeptical posters on TVF".

Lex Talionis - have you seen the report of the British police? How do you know they were "satisfied with the RTP investigation"? Also, only the Millers have expressed their views on the verdict.

And speaking of justice, the B2 deserve that too.

• Like This

• Quote

[connda]

who's the author ?

Anonymous?

If what one TV member posted about it being a crime to criticize the outcome of Thai Judicial proceedings is true, then it will be the Nation itself that will field the heat. I wonder if they protect their sources or summarily toss them under the bus?

But then again, if it is true, they are going to have to build more prisons.

Edited January 1, 2016 by connda

[MrTee]

Brilliant opinion piece in The National!

Somewhat surprised they published it.

There have been a few opinion pieces in Thai publications in the last few days all saying similar stuff..

How long until a Journalist has the cajones to write a detailed front piece..

I've yet to hear from any person they are confident with the verdict, apart from the few faithful on TVF .

[jcsmith]

who's the author ?

Anonymous?

They are probably scared to reveal it for fear of arrest and attitude adjustment.

[connda]

The article fails to address the fact that both the British police - who reviewed the case on site - and the families of the victims both seem to agree that justice has been served. Why would that be?

Why don't the families of the deceased expound, publicly, on the facts that led to the conviction?

[rockingrobin]

"No more research is needed on my part as you seem to have (intentionally?) misquoted me. I said the British police reviewed the case on site which is true. Not that they conducted their own investigation.

And what evidence do you have that these police only observed the parts deemed appropriate by the RTP? Can you back that up with a credible citation? Or is that just a libelous assumption? Maybe it's you who needs to do some more research.

I'm not going to re-argue the case which has been done ad infinitum on several other long and tedious threads. I merely pointing out that the author has not addressed these 2 critical points. That the British police were satisfied with the RTP investigation and that the families also seem to feel that justice was served, that the evidence was overwhelming.

Justice is owed to the families. Not to the many skeptical posters on TVF".

Lex Talionis - have you seen the report of the British police? How do you know they were "satisfied with the RTP investigation"? Also, only the Millers have expressed their views on the verdict.

And speaking of justice, the B2 deserve that too.

• Like This

• Quote

“The Thai authorities permitted the UK police officers to have observer status only in relation to limited parts of the Royal Thai police’s investigation, and the UK police officers did not provide any advice or assistance with that investigation.

“They did not take possession of any physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements. The Royal Thai police provided an interpreter who verbally translated documents that formed limited parts of the prosecution case.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/23/police-thai-inquiry-britons-murder

[thesetat2013]

But it got the required results, Burmese did it, not Thais.they never would

regards Worgeordie

Correct indeed!!! And let's not forget that even our dear leader placed blame on the victims themselves with his outlandish comment about the clothes she wore being the reason it happened.